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blankseplocked [idea] decoy/fake modules
 
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Radix Salvilines
legion industries ltd
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:39:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Radix Salvilines on 01/04/2011 10:48:59
Yo,

what it is all about: making players able to produce and transport fake modules (looks like the original, but cost 1% minerals the original item costs and bpo for it costs also 1%).

why?
as a counter to suicide gankers of course. Upon scanning such modules (and all other commodities) would display as normal modules - that would work only during a scan, otherwise the modules would have "fake" label on them.

restrictions: fake modules cannot be sold on market or contracts - they can only be produced from bpos sold by npc stations and transported by ships. This is to prevent scams. They cannot be jettisoned. They can be traded but still they have a label "fake" on them (like half of the module image is covered by a label or module may be simpluy colored red).

Possible use: a trader sends 3 shipments through area where there are reported to be suiciders - in first 2 shipments there are fake modules meant to lure suiciders into attacking them. There is a chance any blockade would get concordokened for killing decoy and the "real" shipment would get through :)

What do you think?

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:44:00 - [2]
 

That is quite the idea you have there.

Radix Salvilines
legion industries ltd
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:49:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Hayaishi
That is quite the idea you have there.


thank you YARRRR!!

Admiral Leviathan
Posted - 2011.04.01 11:12:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Radix Salvilines
a trader sends 3 shipments through area where there are reported to be suiciders - in first 2 shipments there are fake modules meant to lure suiciders into attacking them. There is a chance any blockade would get concordokened for killing decoy and the "real" shipment would get through :)


the only scenario where this would be useful. on the other hand, CCP is doubling the inventory database...

also, why spend 3 times the time when you could just as easily do these 3 trips in a covert hauler and not risk your actual shipment to be ganked, ever.

Radix Salvilines
legion industries ltd
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2011.04.01 12:04:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Radix Salvilines on 01/04/2011 12:05:49
scenario number two:

a group of dudes fed up with getting their industrials/freighters ganked teams up. One guys gets a freighter, other get logistics.
They go to jita with cargo filled with fake hi-valued modules (a few bil in loot lets say). Once suiciders commence attacked logis jump in and start to rep the freighter until concord deals with the problem.
I am not saying to ban suiciding - I just want to make it more sporty :P

Now that can be done also with normal modules, but is a lot more risky and still you need the isk to buy them.

At the moment suiciders are more or less unstoppable. Fake modules gives a weapon into trader's hands :) They would be able to hunt suiciders.

To add to the first post - fake modules woudl be not reprocessable - only trashable (they can even be trashed in cargohold) :)

EDISON CLONE
Minmatar
Romal Mining Ventures Ltd.
Posted - 2011.04.01 17:16:00 - [6]
 

fake mods...NO! a scammers wet dream...
too much room for abuse

GizzyBoy
Posted - 2011.04.02 00:38:00 - [7]
 

cloaking current cargo and making it look like something else, Yes.

Zyracon
Posted - 2011.04.02 01:17:00 - [8]
 

If there was a way to put a decay on them, so that they would fade out of existence after a day or two, then sure.

Otherwise it would weight down the db.

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.04.02 09:32:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Amaroq Dricaldari on 02/04/2011 09:32:31
Originally by: EDISON CLONE
fake mods...NO! a scammers wet dream...
too much room for abuse


They will have a label on them that shows that they are fake, but when they are scanned, they don't register as fake. Also, he said that THEY SHOULDN'T BE SELLABLE OR CONTRACTABLE.

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2011.04.02 20:34:00 - [10]
 

The ship and cargo scanning mechanic does need some love. Smuggling and other activities can emerge from adding a few variables to the ship scanning mechanic which would be cool. Decoys would be interesting but would need special handling which makes it a little less nice than changing the scanning mechanic itself but we could pick false data to send back rather than have you load some sort of dummy module but I get the idea behind the balance of choosing between fake and real modules in your suggestion for fitting.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:43:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
The ship and cargo scanning mechanic does need some love. Smuggling and other activities can emerge from adding a few variables to the ship scanning mechanic which would be cool. Decoys would be interesting but would need special handling which makes it a little less nice than changing the scanning mechanic itself but we could pick false data to send back rather than have you load some sort of dummy module but I get the idea behind the balance of choosing between fake and real modules in your suggestion for fitting.


The whole point being, a player's ability to lure suicide gankers into suiciding for nothing vs a ganker's abbility to not be lured by decoys.

I like the idea, more PvP is good for economy and there's something very sweet in griefing wannabe griefers... Laughing.

Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.02 22:04:00 - [12]
 

Instead of making decoy items, it could be a module, which when activated causes ship scanners to get modified results. You could even have scripts to have it do different things:

"Scrap script" sends false data showing a bunch of salvage and scrap metal
"<faction name here> script" shows false data about that faction's modules in the cargo
"Ore script" sends false data about ore in the cargo
"Randomizer" could show anything in the cargo at random
etc...

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.03 11:23:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Decoys would be interesting but would need special handling which makes it a little less nice than changing the scanning mechanic itself but we could pick false data to send back rather than have you load some sort of dummy module but I get the idea behind the balance of choosing between fake and real modules in your suggestion for fitting.


Yes, yes...this!

Arriana Alterana
Posted - 2011.04.03 15:56:00 - [14]
 

What about a "decoy generator" that can be dumped in the cargohold that generates all sorts of bogus data on attempts to scan the ship?

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.03 16:14:00 - [15]
 

I would not recommend either having a list of specific modules which this scan scrambler would fake, nor having it be a random choice.
Let someone list which modules they claim to have.
To make this a tool for real traders - make it need to get the scan id from an actual item. You fill up your cargohold, then choose 'get scan signature', and it will project the data you would have projected at that time.
The same thing for module loadout.

Problems that would need to be considered:
If the cargo hold contents were randomly generated, gankers would just always scan twice/three times - a discrepancy means it's fake.
If they were specific, gankers would memorise the lists.
Lastly, if the module generating the fake results could be scanned itself, the list would be obviously fake.

I do think the module based idea is great though.

Dr Prometheus
Caldari
Gears of Construction
Posted - 2011.04.03 16:52:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Shandir
[...]Lastly, if the module generating the fake results could be scanned itself, the list would be obviously fake.

I do think the module based idea is great though.


But who says the module is active? :p

staaavish
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.04.03 19:26:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
The ship and cargo scanning mechanic does need some love. Smuggling and other activities can emerge from adding a few variables to the ship scanning mechanic which would be cool. Decoys would be interesting but would need special handling which makes it a little less nice than changing the scanning mechanic itself but we could pick false data to send back rather than have you load some sort of dummy module but I get the idea behind the balance of choosing between fake and real modules in your suggestion for fitting.


if you are actually in anyway thinking this is a useful idea, then just eliminate suicide operations all together. this is a carebears dream. they can then roam freely doing whatever they want, with no risk.

if you are going to let scanners produce false data, make all scanners produce false data, npc's produce false bounties, and rocks produce false ore. otherwise you are just catering to a specific crowd.

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.04.03 19:49:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Instead of making decoy items, it could be a module, which when activated causes ship scanners to get modified results. You could even have scripts to have it do different things:

"Scrap script" sends false data showing a bunch of salvage and scrap metal
"<faction name here> script" shows false data about that faction's modules in the cargo
"Ore script" sends false data about ore in the cargo
"Randomizer" could show anything in the cargo at random
etc...



I was about to post something similar: My idea:

Have an attachable module for a ship that would result in an agility penalty to industrial/transport ships. This module would make it so that your cargo would look like one of two things, not scrap as then people would know that scrap haulers (whos ever heard of that) with 40k units of scrap were probably using the module.

The module would have two scripts to the the two things it said before: It would either convert the scans results to LESS items then you currently have (20k units of arknor looks like 20 units or something) or will break down manufactured to a portion of their components used in producing them (instead of 20 rifters it would be some of the components used in producing it).

The more modules you use, the higher your chance of scrambling the 'enemy' and the 'enemys' can counteract this with sets of skills that increase their chance of getting positive and accurate results from their scan.

This will give balance as Scanners can skill up in skills related to their scanning and the haulers can skill up in skills related to their scramblers. There would be a stacking penalty of course in the modules.

Also there wont be a simple 'yes' or 'no' to success as there would be a variance in the 'roll check'.

Another Idea would be a module to make people scanning cargo take more time allowing the hauler to warp off before they find if the target is worth ganking.

Freighters have a disadvantage of course to this as they dont have module slots, but they do have MUCH higher hitpoints so hauling in a Freighter is safer as the larger gank squads will be your only worries.


 

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