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Posted - 2011.03.30 18:51:00 - [1]

I'm just startring to get into moon mining. I've gotten the basic steps down, I plan on finding a moon in low sec. Hopfully a less then travled spot in low sec.

I plan on setting up 2 pos's. one large for simple and advanced reactions, and the other soly for moon mining. It will have a harvester, a silo, and defences.

My question is, what size pos should I use for the mining? I want one large enough to put good defences if a group of bships finds me and decided to try to take me down. Does a small pos have enough powergrid/cpu to hold a harvester, silo and enough guns to keep me safe?

I need the advice of experts. This is all new to me. TY

Dr Richard Dawkins
Posted - 2011.03.30 19:13:00 - [2]

I really hope you're doing this for fun and not profit.


Posted - 2011.03.30 19:56:00 - [3]

Originally by: Dr Richard Dawkins
I really hope you're doing this for fun and not profit.


Because even with a small POS and an average moon, your ROI is like two years....

Posted - 2011.03.30 20:09:00 - [4]

Edited by: NinjaSpud on 30/03/2011 20:10:14
Profit was the intended goal

I'll have a nice chunk if isk to invest (1-2 bill, providing all my other plans work lol)

what am i missing here?

I visited taht site before, I couldn't find where it was reccomended to use a small pos for the harvest array or a medum...or even a large. I want oponions on what is better for derence vs cost

Posted - 2011.03.30 21:11:00 - [5]

Moon mining isn't really a solo activity. Neither is a POS. Sure there are people who do, but those are mostly for reactions rather than mining.

You buy the materials from local market hub and then (very very carefully) get them to your pos in lo-sec to react into highter quality materials. All the while your POS(s) are a big juicy target for anyone who finds them. A single super can incap every defensive mod on a small \ med tower in short order, leaving it easy pickings.

I don't mean this to discourage you, but purely as information. Don't invest all your isk into something that can be blown up on a whim.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.30 22:33:00 - [6]

Since a silo and a moonmin harvester take up the same amount of tower fittings, you're much better off combining as much of mining and reacting on a single moon, wherever possible.

Posted - 2011.03.30 22:43:00 - [7]

there's a couple of things to keep in mind. 1- most places that you'll get to in lowsec will either be occupied or won't have the right combination to do a reaction worth any real money.

if you use your own bunch of characters and PI to get your tower fuel costs down then it's possible to break a profit, but the effort required i would personally say is not worth it.

now, if you just go after reactions, then you can monitor the market trends and build up a stock of stuff to sell. then when the market peaks out drop your load. this type of activity takes a decent feel for the market.

In any case, i would say that akita hit the nail on the head when he said combine as much of the process on a single tower as humanly possible. this cuts your overhead down and enables you to maximize profits.

as far as defenses go, nothing will prevent someone who wants to take your tower from doing so. the best bet (in my opinion) for a solo operator is to maximize jamming and shield resists to make it as much of a pain to kill your tower as possible.

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.03.30 23:29:00 - [8]

Mining and reacting are no way near worth the effort unless you're leader or the leader's butt-boy in a 5000 man alliance.

Don't bother because you can buy most the the raws, the reacted products and the finished advanced materials as cheap (often cheaper) as it costs to manufacture them. POS are a pain in the arse and after the novelty wears off, you will hate it. Everyone sees some profit but they forget the tonnes of hauling, set up time, silo management then price adjusting (market only exists in Jita) and is full of resellers etc screwing you over. Oh and PIE's greifing your low-sec tower 'just coz they can'.

Oh and don't listen to Akita if he points you toward reacting trying to inflate the value of his Technetium stash. He will tell people the moon is on a stick and people believe him because they can't be arsed running numbers themselves (Nothing personal Akita).

For the effort (and time) spent you're better off running a mission, incursion or twiddling your thumbs.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.30 23:40:00 - [9]

The best reactions right now have a monthly profit well below the one where people used to rip down their POSes not even two years ago because they thought it's not worth the hassle.
Since then, getting ISK in other ways became easier and GTCs/PLEX became more expensive.

People running reactions nowadays are masochists IMO.
But then again I'd probably say the same thing about miners.

Posted - 2011.03.31 11:32:00 - [10]

Originally by: skurv

if you use your own bunch of characters and PI to get your tower fuel costs down then it's possible to break a profit,

PI does NOT increase your moon mining income directly. It DOES save you marketing time in having to place and sell sale orders and playing the market for PI fuels - it will save you money depending on how much you value your time that you would have spent marketing the PI sales (mining is free Rolling Eyes etc etc)

Technodyne Ltd.
Posted - 2011.03.31 12:10:00 - [11]

First of all: If someone really wants to tear down your POS, he can do it. Fit your POS with weapons and defenses just to discourage smaller gangs and corps to bother with it. Be prepared that there is a chance you will loose your POS.

I think that one POS just for mining will not work. Most moons I have seen in low-sec don't have minerals that can be mixed together. Anyway, moons with two or more minerals seem to be very rare in low-sec. To get any reaction to work you will have to mine from at least two moons.
Mining two minerals from one moon is very hard to do with a medium POS, I would recommend a large POS for that, maybe you can even react the minerals at that POS.
To get it profitable, you have to get the fuel or part of it by yourself. This means ice mining and/or PI.

Eventually you will need more than one POS and then the profits won't be that big I fear. Setting up several POS's for reactions and mining is more a thing for a whole dedicated corp than a solo player I would say.

I'm mining a moon with a POS that my corp runs, but only to sell the raw mineral for some ISK to cover some of the fuel costs. With a bit of PI we do, it works well to sustain a medium POS.

Posted - 2011.04.01 01:15:00 - [12]

while doing some low sec exploration of my own looking for lowsec pos sites I have discovered, to my shock, unshielded, offlines pos' just sitting around more than a few moons in low sec areas.

who'da thunk it?

point is, you don't really get much useful information on these forums.

These guys either don't know or are less than honest.

Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.04.01 04:14:00 - [13]

It's not to say your POS will get blown up, only that there is a chance, and it increases with the player density of the lowsec area. You scouting out some quiet lowsec with offlined POS' and likely unprofitable moons doesn't change that fact.

Technodyne Ltd.
Posted - 2011.04.01 09:40:00 - [14]

Originally by: TravisWB
while doing some low sec exploration of my own looking for lowsec pos sites I have discovered, to my shock, unshielded, offlines pos' just sitting around more than a few moons in low sec areas.

I have encountered the same. Either these POS's are abondened or run by people who don't know better. It's also possible that they are just standing there to block a moon with nice minerals.

If you really want to, there are plenty of easy POS's to blow up in low-sec. The question is: does it pay off to blow up an abondened POS? Not really I would say... (except you want to place your own POS at the moon.)

Mai Hantaka
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:12:00 - [15]

Shooting POS is really boring, esp. for large towers. Still, the locals may feel that you are wee-ing in their backyard and blow them up for that reason.

Look at the volumes required for fuel and moon materials. There is a significant amount of hauling involved, and a quiet corner may mean you have to travel several jumps before you are back in highsec (unless you have a jump freighter).

Scouting for offline POSes and blowing up moon miners / silos can be fun at times.

Posted - 2011.04.01 11:22:00 - [16]

Assuming you find a moon with a worthwhile material (good luck with that), and by worthwhile I mean something that *isn't* as common as dirt in terms of raw moon materials, then you increase the likelihood that someone will come along with a fleet and kick you out.

Honestly, if you're just starting out on your moon minerals Indy career, go to Jita and get your moon poo there. "Buy It Now" from Sellers or try your hand at getting it for cheaper with your own buy orders. Depends on the margins -- either way, no need for moon harvestors.

Secondly, simplify your logistics and just move right along to the reactor process. It's easier to find a vacant, useless moon (no moon poo) than a useful one (some kind of moon poo), and you will see a ROI much, much sooner.

Sabre WinterDrake
Posted - 2011.04.02 08:01:00 - [17]

NinjaSpud -

Be wary of conflicting opinions... sometimes others who do in fact make a lot out of their moons will want to throw you off the scent!

I've just started POS / Moon mining myself. But I went through a long (3-4 week) process of building an Excel sheet from scratch using Jita prices for all the moon materials, simple reaction products and the complex products as well.

Then factor in the fuel requirements (easy to do even before you build a POS as there are several POS calculators out there...and fuel from your own planets etc if you're doing that too.

Practically all the R16 moons will be taken. Forget R32 and R64 moons; they WILL be taken and its best just to buy the raw material from Jita if required.

However, a number of R8 moons can be found alone and unloved. Finding free moon(s) will allow you to see which reactions might be available to you for reduced cost (ie you mine the moon material).

I'm using medium Caldari control towers, which can run a moon harvester, 3 silos and a single simple reactor. (And some defences)
With this setup, you can mine one material from the moon, store it in a silo, and do a simple reaction. You could buy the second raw moon material from Jita, or mine it from a second medium POS.

Two complementary R8 moons (both running harvesters and a simple reaction) can turn a profit... but it is up to you to decide whether the hauling, POS crying for fuel every few days/weeks) is worth the return.

Also advise using low-sec planets for increased POS fuel production. Hi sec planets won't reduce your fuel needs by much due to their lower starting resources.


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