open All Channels
seplocked Skill Discussions
blankseplocked Does any race have an unfair advantage when it comes to branching
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.03.29 15:42:00 - [1]
 

This is assuming the average player starts out to play eve mission running.

So it seems it is easier for combat purposes(continuing mission running when the new FOTM comes out, or to go into pvp) to go from Amarr to Gallente to Minimitar (in no particular order. As in because they use armor mostly, and gunnery it is easy to cross train).

While Caldari mainly use missiles and Shield, and really only SOME minimitar ships use those advantages.

Caldari however, is easier to cross train into Mining and industry as mostly those are shield tanks (I believe) Hulk, Orca,Rorq, most transport ships (need bottom slots for either cargo space or the ability to be more agile).

Gallente have an advantage for someone that decides they want to go the carrier path, as they will most likely train drone skills while learning PVE skills.

Caldari will transition better to Stealth bombers as they are likely to have high missile skills.

This is just some thoughts, does anyone else have any "Well the most effective Dread is suchandsuch,or more of those are produced so this race has an easier time going into it."

Or recon,ect ect.




Demolishar
Posted - 2011.03.29 15:47:00 - [2]
 

Minmatar, cause it has 2 pirate factions instead of 1, and their low end ships are awesome too. Basically gives you a progression of great ships through the entire game.

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.03.29 16:29:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Vierego on 29/03/2011 16:30:23
Originally by: Demolishar
Minmatar, cause it has 2 pirate factions instead of 1, and their low end ships are awesome too. Basically gives you a progression of great ships through the entire game.


I was less concerned about which race had OPd ships, and more along the line of which race made it easier to break into something outside your field.


Example

Dread flying
Titan flying (which amarr might win because you need pulse?)
Carrier Flying
Recon
Mining
Industry
Transport
PVE level 5's
PVE Cosmos in 0.0 where you have to run
Cyno pilot
Research
Invention
Freighter piloting
Jump piloting
Remote Repping
Interdictor
Interceptor
PVP Fleets
PVP small gangs where you are doing dps


Ect ect, the point is if four people started each with different races, and spent 6 months skilling up to be the best PVE level 4 mission runner they could possibly be, how much more time training would they need to get into the above roles and be competent.

Aka, I believe Gallente would have an advantage to carrier because they already have solid drone skills.


It also very may well be you are correct, as the neccesity of skill to do those jobs effectively for each races ship differ.

For example, It may be you need 8m of points to effectively fly suchandsuchs interdictor after all fittings, but for another race only 7.4m

Darth McDarth
Posted - 2011.03.29 17:33:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Darth McDarth on 29/03/2011 17:32:59

Dread flying - Amarr/Gallente
Titan flying - Amarr/Gallente
Carrier Flying - Gallente
Recon - Any
Mining - Any
Industry - Any
Transport - Gallente for volume carried, Minmatar for speed
PVE level 5's - Caldari
PVE Cosmos in 0.0 where you have to run - Minmatar
Cyno pilot - Any
Research - Any
Invention - Any
Freighter piloting - Any, small bias towards minmatar for nav skills
Jump piloting - Any
Remote Repping - Minmatar/Amarr
Interdictor - Minmatar
Interceptor - Minmatar
PVP Fleets - Minmatar
PVP small gangs where you are doing dps - Minmatar

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.03.29 18:16:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Darth McDarth
Edited by: Darth McDarth on 29/03/2011 17:32:59

Dread flying - Amarr/Gallente
Titan flying - Amarr/Gallente
Carrier Flying - Gallente
Recon - Any
Mining - Any
Industry - Any
Transport - Gallente for volume carried, Minmatar for speed
PVE level 5's - Caldari
PVE Cosmos in 0.0 where you have to run - Minmatar
Cyno pilot - Any
Research - Any
Invention - Any
Freighter piloting - Any, small bias towards minmatar for nav skills
Jump piloting - Any
Remote Repping - Minmatar/Amarr
Interdictor - Minmatar
Interceptor - Minmatar
PVP Fleets - Minmatar
PVP small gangs where you are doing dps - Minmatar



Thank you, something like that is excellent. However, for Invention wouldn't a race that is going to have Electronics V going to benefit? Or does every race use that equally for PVE?

Also for Industry/Transport wouldn't Caldari have a slight lead because hulks and such use Shield fits to keep bottom slots free?

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.03.29 18:17:00 - [6]
 

People make way too much out of armor/shield tanking specs. They're both really easy to train for, shield tanking takes a bit longer than armor tanking but neither are really relevant in the long haul.

So what is actually there in terms of skills? These times are taken with specialized attributes and +5's, a crosstraining player should be able to use those. Though +4's or +3's will do fine too. I'm not including Mechanic as hull hp is equally useful for each tanking type and you only need level 1 as a prereq for armor tanking skills. Still it's a really short skill as well.

For armor we have:

* Repair systems, rank 1, takes about 4 days to max.
* Hull upgrades, rank 2, takes about 8 days to max.
* 4x specific resist skills, rank 2, take about 1.5 days each to get to level IV so another 6 days.

That's 18 days to be as good as you need to be in armor tanking, yeah you can top it off with level V in resist skills but you don't need it. Let's throw armor rigging IV in the mix too and we get to a grand total of about 20 days.

Now shield tanking:

* Shield operation, rank 1, takes about 4 days to max.
* Shield management, rank 3, takes about 12 days to max.
* Shield upgrades, rank 2, takes about 1.5 days to get to IV.
* Tactical shield manipulation, rank 4, takes about 3 days to get to IV.
* Shield compensation, rank 2, takes 1.5 days to get to IV.
* 4x specific resist skills, rank 2, take 6 hours each to get to level III and you really won't need more when using active hardeners. That's 1 day total

So this is 23 days total. Yes you can max out shield upgrades for a bit more powergrid when fitting extenders, sure you can max shield compensation for a little more capacitor when active shield tanking, but neither are critical. Nor will most people fly with passive hardeners and on the off chance that your hardeners will shut off, level III in the resist skills will do. Throwing shield rigging in here too and you end up at 25 days.


Either 20 or 25 days to be as good as you'll need to be. You can get level IV's for a start too and be done even sooner. So don't consider tanking skills to be much of a factor when deciding to crosstrain.

RavenPaine
Posted - 2011.03.29 19:00:00 - [7]
 

Caldari are actually, kind of specialized in many respects. The main area being E-War. Your question is a little broad/vague to just generalize all races vs time to crosstrain.

For a 4 month old player, cross training in any direction isn't really a big issue. Most of the early skills you would have are good to own, no matter what race. Electronics, Engineering, Basic Drone skills, Navigation, etc. All those will apply across the board.

There's no "racial" advantage in trading, mining, manufacturing, invention, etc. Whatever race you started with will do just fine.

For a 2 year old player that was dedicated to Caldari specificly, He would probably start flying Minmatar ships with good specs almost instantly. (the shield tanked versions)

IMO many skills are universal. And apply to all races.
Gunnery SUPPORT skills. More important than the gun itself.
Drone skills at V no matter what race.
Navigation skills.
CPU and Powergrid skills for fitting.
Energy Management/Capacitor skills.
Targeting skills.
Battlecruiser skill.
The cruiser specced skills: Recon, HAC, Logistics, Heavy Dictor.
Social skills.
Basic Science skills. (Infomorph, Cybernetics, Science, etc.)

Amarr and Gal cross very nicely, and quickly. They would share almost every skill.


Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.03.29 21:11:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Sub Prime on 29/03/2011 21:11:49

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.29 22:34:00 - [9]
 

Any race can do PVE sufficiently, so people don't usually start with PVE and THEN decide - they first decide and THEN make a character, which will suffer through its PVE phase if it needs money.

Electronics 5 and Engineering 5 are just about the first two skills everyone trains to 5 first. Ships always need more CPU and Powergrid (respectively), and those two skills are it for that. It always sucks when you can't fit what you want to on your ship, so people max out those two little skills very early.

Also, there is a huge advantage to starting a separate pilot just for PVP: people you **** off tend to continue hunting you forever, and won't stop when you need to PVE because you're out of money. So, it's better for your PVE pilot to be anonymous and separate from your PVP pilot, sometimes.

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.03.30 04:50:00 - [10]
 

I started out my character as Gallente and quickly trained in Caldari. As Caldari I did the traditional PVE path and trained my Missiles and Shield Skills. I also trained into Drones for taking down mission rats. From there I ventured into PVP and trained into Hybrids (blasters) and after some semi successful roams I decided with my high drone skills and my blaster skills coming a decent bit, itd be easy to train armor and go Gallente.

So now im a Caldari/Gallente crosstrain with mostly level 5 Gunnery and Missile skills.

It wasnt the way I would have planned it in retrospect. In retrospect I would have went purely Minmatar as I thoroughly enjoy playing them on my alt.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.03.30 15:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
Also, there is a huge advantage to starting a separate pilot just for PVP: people you **** off tend to continue hunting you forever, and won't stop when you need to PVE because you're out of money. So, it's better for your PVE pilot to be anonymous and separate from your PVP pilot, sometimes.


Biggest rubbish I ever heard. Literally NO one ever came back to me to try to hunt me and I've never heard such stories from anyone else. Sure, these things will happen on a corp or alliance level, but personal vengeance for dying in pvp really doesn't happen. Of course some noobs will claim they'll hunt you when they're young and die, but they don't actually do it.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only