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Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:04:00 - [211]
 

I love faction war. I've been in it for over a year and it makes me sad that the populations on both fronts are dropping. Crying or Very sad I am hoping for some new or changed mechanics that can create some incentives to PvP.

As it stands now, the plexing "war" is just afk orbiting buttons. There is the occasional fight to be had but for a player (especially if they are new/broke) to be orbiting buttons with no real incentive or reward (by reward, I mean other than standings increases that you get because those tend to go by fast). They could be better off flying with a blob (and get fights) or missioning for isk. I really would like the idea (that has been proposed time and time again) to tie plexes and LP together. It takes twenty minutes to capture a major plex(that is, 20 minutes unopposed, capturing plexes that are fought over can take much longer...). I can run 2 or 3 level 4's in that time, getting at least 60-75+ million isk in that time. If a plex rewarded players LP there would be more incentive to first off, actually enter those plexes. Second, there would be a reason to fight over them other than the obvious RP crowd reasons. More players would plex, creating more small gang fights.


The second thing is we as players are generally unwelcoming to newer players entering faction war. I've been on both the caldari and gallente side and I would say it's probably just as bad as a new player trying to get into 0.0 action. As militias we need to be willing to accept newer players, let them see some action. Otherwise theyd just get bored like they are now, never really enter lowsec and eventually just leave faction war. If we want to see more fights and more fun we need to increase the populations (and by population, i mean PvPers, not missioners) of each militia. Your gang outnumbered? Never seem to get enough people to take on the opposing blob, but you're unwilling to accept newer players? That's a problem. Turning people away is not a good solution.


TL;DR Make plexes reward LP. Until CCP implements better mechanics we, as FW players need to carry better attitudes to improve FW on our own.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:09:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
especially since most current questions about FW are pretty much the same that have persisted for months if not years.


Well if you fix the things that people have been complaining about for years, we would not need a brainstorming session on more questions that are based on a FW system that may or may not be around after you fix said issues. If rockets are any indication as to how long things like this take to get fixed, we should see FW fixed in about 5 years.

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.04.07 02:54:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Bump.

Incidentally, the last two QEN's discussed the positive effect of PvP on the economy, as well as the dangerous trend of fewer PvP incidents per player.

If you're serious about increasing the pew pew, CCP, try a revamp of one of its most accessible forms.


Definately agree with this. Some of the Amarr/Minnie militia fights (Late Nite) see billions of losses on both sides. Eventually this requires a trip to Amarr or Rens etc... to resupply. This HAS to be good for the economy as well as the game in general. Now if only we could get some love from CCP to make FW attractive and to promote even more PvP...

Bengal Bob
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.04.07 09:58:00 - [214]
 

bump

DeT Resprox
Minmatar
T.R.I.A.D
Posted - 2011.04.07 11:26:00 - [215]
 

I would be very interested to see what comes of this.

I have tried multiple times to contact CCP in regards to carrying FW forwards with no luck Confused

Manifest, as someone who has taken part in FW yourself with Minmatar, you may know already about the T.R.I.A.D Agency system which has been extensively covered by CCP/ISD throughout its evolving. This is currently limited to our corporation only being able to issue missions to those of high Minmatar standing. FW members are able to take up our missions to gain Loyalty Points for killing Amarr and Caldari targets, as well as rewards for plexing and full blown campaigns such as 'Into The Abyss'.

This is very very very close to being in a position for global release to other corporations where i will be in the process of contacting strong Roleplay corporations on each side (such as PIE and 1st Praetorian Guard of Amarr).

The global agency i am set to release will allow multiple FW corporations to own their own agency and generate missions. Enemy corporations who own an agency are given auto-generated counter-missions against enemy corporations etc.

I believe this will add depth to the richness of Faction Roleplay based upon the backstory of EvE with the full ability to follow along the evolving EvE storyline plot - an example of that was our Sansha campaign where defenders gains Loyalty Points and rewards with us for defending Minmatar and Gallente systems. A global agency for such future campaigns would generate counter campaigns within enemy corporations to put a stop to a defensive campaign for example.

Loyalty Points through plexing in Faction Warfare is also handed out through the T.R.I.A.D Agency system. Further Loyalty Points are given for changing the state of an enemy system and the Occupancy itself!

I would very much like to speak with CCP about the prospects of this if possible.

This is something that i am very passionate about in seeing the storyline of EvE presented to the playerbase and pushing it forwards in adding to the player experience be it in Faction Warfare or otherwise and it is my belief that this is fully capable (as has been proven as a standalone corp model) of doing it.


CCP Manifest


C C P
Posted - 2011.04.07 14:54:00 - [216]
 

Thanks to everyone for chiming in here. I hope that factional warfare discussion will hop over to the new forums.

Also, thanks to DeT Resprox for the above post. Interesting stuff I need to dive into but haven't had the time to yet.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

Iíve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on.

I just wanted to give you as much of an update as I can. Also, I'm not one who gives up easily until something is resolved, so I can safely promise that this thread will not be forgotten nor the enthusiasm of the 50 + people at the missed roundtable or the people they represent in the EVE community.

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.04.07 15:02:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: DeT Resprox

Player run player missions inc pvp reward machanics



wowzers cant belive i didnt know about this, sounds like an excellent start!!

Originally by: CCP Manifest

Comments about FW development meetings



very reassuring!!! thanks Manifest! :D

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.04.07 15:54:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Thanks to everyone for chiming in here. I hope that factional warfare discussion will hop over to the new forums.

Also, thanks to DeT Resprox for the above post. Interesting stuff I need to dive into but haven't had the time to yet.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

Iíve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on.

I just wanted to give you as much of an update as I can. Also, I'm not one who gives up easily until something is resolved, so I can safely promise that this thread will not be forgotten nor the enthusiasm of the 50 + people at the missed roundtable or the people they represent in the EVE community.

Just wanted to thank you for posting so responsively here. It's pretty rare that someone form CCP interacts with players on a specific topic as much as you have and I'm personally very grateful.

Bengal Bob
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.04.11 11:20:00 - [219]
 

bump

Shaalira D'arc
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:14:00 - [220]
 

Bumping a promising discussion, and hoping more information about that roadmap session will come out soon.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:25:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Thanks to everyone for chiming in here. I hope that factional warfare discussion will hop over to the new forums.

Also, thanks to DeT Resprox for the above post. Interesting stuff I need to dive into but haven't had the time to yet.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

Iíve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on.

I just wanted to give you as much of an update as I can. Also, I'm not one who gives up easily until something is resolved, so I can safely promise that this thread will not be forgotten nor the enthusiasm of the 50 + people at the missed roundtable or the people they represent in the EVE community.



Thanks for trying but the tl;dr of that is

"We'd like to keep you happy but nobody is working on this on anything other than code maintenance, nor is there any plan for anyone to do so"

Kill FW. Are the Empires going to be at "war" forever with SFA going on?

Do the decent thing and kill it, its been on a DNR list (do not resuscitate) for years so turn life support off and come up with a plan for low-sec.

Bane Loppknow
Pel Industries
Posted - 2011.04.11 20:35:00 - [222]
 

I would have thought Faction Warfare would be a nice, easy way to tie in DUST, and therefore would be somewhat high on CCP's to-do list.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.12 00:22:00 - [223]
 

I've come to the realisation that CCP is not the same company they were 2 years ago.

Nothing will fix this.

rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.12 01:03:00 - [224]
 

Edited by: rootimus maximus on 12/04/2011 01:06:56
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
When a faction takes a system have it so the system slowly changes towards that faction. Stations in system will 1 by 1 start to be owned by that factions npc corps and open up reg mission and FW mission agents. Make the system dynamic so it actually is world shaping which is something that was promised when FW was released.

Hell even make it slowly rise in sec status and allow it to shift into highsec. That way the FW pilots could then continue to fight for the system w/o interference from pirates/others.


Having FW genuinely impact the game world like this would make me want to give it a try. I've been playing for a few years now, and I've always been disappointed with the huge disconnect between storyline and actual gameplay.

Originally by: CCP Manifest
The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on.


Obviously, CCP has to make a profit or Eve really will die. That said, getting community input before making decisions and paying attention to it (unlike all the feedback you got from testing the new forum), is surely going to lead to a lot less disappointment from the players. Throw in an ignore option so we can shut out the trolls and that would be pretty epic.

Nathvas
Posted - 2011.04.12 01:47:00 - [225]
 

Edited by: Nathvas on 12/04/2011 01:57:03
Edited by: Nathvas on 12/04/2011 01:48:24
Part of the problem is, from my experience, is that factions missions are too easy. LVL 4 missions can be completed in a SB, which is not easy to catch with bubbles and since we cant't bubbles. Catching a SB is near impossible. This has lead to FW to be flooded with people doing FW missions for isk. Orgionally we joined FW to make money and try to recruit pvpers and have some fun. We made isk, lots of it, but the pvp has been hit and miss and recruitment. hah not really. And getting a fleet going. good luck with that. I found a titan in Iwisoda last saturday at a pos that was unachoring, thats right unachoring. Shocked Several members of my corp and I were spamming milita hoping to form a fleet. And the replies I got ****ed me the f#$^ off. For example "Good luck killing that."

I was livid. Here we had the opportunity to be the first milita to take down a titan, and people were being whining carebears. So from my persepective there needs to to be a way to mix missions and pvp. As right now, you can carebear all you want and not risk pvp. Part of the problem can never be fixed as some people are only it for the money, which is something I don't think CCP intended when they designed FW.

Final Note: Since I was unable to gank the titan,I emoraged and stole his medium amarr tower. Take that 0 space alliances. Twisted Evil

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.12 01:51:00 - [226]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 12/04/2011 01:51:41

Mission rewards aren't the problem. They're only unbalanced because the plex code doesn't work as intended.

If the code was fixed then missions would fall into their place, then could be looked at for rebalancing.

Trying to rebalance FW missions while the plexing system is broken, just polishing a turd.

Bengal Bob
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:45:00 - [227]
 

Bump

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.04.12 22:59:00 - [228]
 

/me raises hand w.r.t after DT plexing (4 am where I live).

What is good about FW?
1. Free war dec. You can pvp to your heart's content without taking a sec hit and without having to worry about gate guns. This is why most of us are in FW.

2. FW missions are a great source of isk. You don't have to run missions in empire - you can run them low sec and have more fun doing so if you want (run a pvp oriented missioning gang through low sec and gank people while you make isk!).

What's wrong with FW?
3. Occupancy mechanics are botched - for all the reasons pointed out in this thread.

Getting two out of three mostly right isn't bad and is more than enough to have loads of fun with. And while occupancy mechanics are botched, there are tons of good fights in plexes every single day.

The main issue I have with FW is the amount of whinage that we FW players put out w.r.t. the botched occupancy mechanics. Yes, they are botched, but 95% of us joined FW for the free war dec and the ability to run FW missions anyways, so who really cares?

And no, botched occupancy mechanics aren't the reason for a decrease in FW activity levels. Only a very small minority of the FW players ever ran plexes to begin with. The reason is lack of good fights. Why is there a lack of good fights? Because everybody is more interested in winning than having good fights.

So please quit trying to win every fight and instead go out and engage your opponent more often even if it means your side may be outgunned on occasion. You'll have more fun. Your opponent will have more fun, and you'll get more people returning to FW because they'll see how much fun you're having while they shoot i-hub whatevers 23/7 in 0.0.

/rant


Kern Hotha
Posted - 2011.04.13 10:17:00 - [229]
 

"The data does not support that polished quality sells better than new features."

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.04.14 02:44:00 - [230]
 

Thought this thread needed a 100mn MWD vagabond applied to it!!!

Especially since we don't know when the new topic on the new forums will be available again Confused

Tyraeil Starblade
Posted - 2011.04.14 03:37:00 - [231]
 

I really hope CCP will follow through with this and make it a focus in a later patch down the line.

Just put Team BFF on it when they're free, they do good work :D

Big brand
Posted - 2011.04.14 04:13:00 - [232]
 

Edited by: Big brand on 14/04/2011 04:18:03
Edited by: Big brand on 14/04/2011 04:16:18
I have not looked at this whole thread, and i have never actually tried FW, but i have a small idea that "may" be fun.

What CCP could do is somehow implement FW to be STRAIGHT PVP, make it where players can only get LP threw killing other players that are in FW, otherwise you cant even get LP unless if you are apart of FW.

I could add more to it but this is all i can really come up with atm, but TBPH i think they should do something to fix it, now i can't say i will ever join it, because i never really got interested in it, but i do think it is a very good concept.

Lost InCogneto
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.04.17 10:13:00 - [233]
 

bump - trying to keep this conversation alive

Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.04.17 14:12:00 - [234]
 

Edited by: Meridius Dex on 17/04/2011 14:23:09
There have already been many good ideas presented here. But I think the only way CCP lifts a finger to iterate FW is if it can be done with as little new work as possible, altering (and, in some cases, fixing) existing code. As such, things like changing system security levels and adding new agents as systems change occupancy, etc. will likely never see the light of day and only serve to muddy the picture.

In short, FW can be fixed with a few short, easy steps:

A.) Drop all FW missions (and I say this even though I have made tons of ISK with them) and provide equivalent LP directly (and generously, much more so than now) for both plexing and kills. This shifts all ISK-making in FW to PvP. You get LP based on how many blue in the plex and it's size; all NPCs must be killed.

Make kills for LP only count once per downtime per opponent to prevent abuse and insure LP is based on ratios, with less provided for ganking a T1 frigate with a faction cruiser - and even less for killing one target with many. Encourage smaller gangs by bringing back active plexing and encouraging smaller gangs, even solo PvP.

This leads to...

B.) Fix the broken plex spawning mechanic. This is a no-brainer and a long-standing complaint. Insure that plexes spawn generously throughout the playing day and perhaps provide a signal in militia offices when a plex is open anywhere. I'm wondering if this would be an easy piece of code to make - drawing from the database; it would also be a nice touch to those in their captain's quarters, come Incarna.

C.) Address the issue of neutral remote-repping and logistics in the FW theater. Insure pirates lose faction standing for attacking FW forces. There has to be some penalty to address the epidemic of large pirate alliances tipping the balance on the FW battlefield.

D.) Make occupancy mean something. The easiest solution is preventing the use of station services in faction stations (exclude NPC corps?) in all systems that show occupation by the hostile faction. An even tougher solution would mean barring even docking in these stations, but some have said this might be too scary for new players. In either case, with much more LP given for plexing (and more for offensive than defensive), players need to appreciate the experience of being "behind enemy lines".

You don't even need new code for this, just port the code used for player-owned stations in 0.0 to FW and edit some code to recognize faction occupancy instead of sov and replace corp and alliance identification with FW corp ID. Simples.

--Special Note-- Although this doesn't relate to any one major issue of FW, I would like to make one other suggestion for the viability of small ship plexing, especially for T1 frigate pilots: change the acceleration gate requirements that allow faction frigates into small plexes.

At least bar the pirate frigs and allow only faction navy frigates into these plexes. It prevents the broken, OP Dramiel from ruining small plex play and encourages militia members to fly, if any faction frigates, those provide by their Navy for LP rewards. Once again, only small tweaking of existing code is necessary.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.17 23:32:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest

Iíve talked it over with people in development and they are currently in the middle of another roadmapping session (these happen regularly) which includes discussions of Factional Warfare iteration amongst other development efforts, which means further information is coming in the near future. The discussion will include continued prioritization work amongst CCP devs, the CSM and the greater community before being acted on.



Whatever dude.

Been hearing this for years.

I do like how you've managed to cut down on bad publicity on the forums by making a lot of players quit tho.

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.04.18 02:55:00 - [236]
 

Bump - since it seems these forums will be up for awhile...

CCP - Where is a comment on what is going to be done to fix FW???

Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.04.18 03:31:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: X Gallentius
/me raises hand w.r.t after DT plexing (4 am where I live).

What is good about FW?
1. Free war dec. You can pvp to your heart's content without taking a sec hit and without having to worry about gate guns. This is why most of us are in FW.

2. FW missions are a great source of isk. You don't have to run missions in empire - you can run them low sec and have more fun doing so if you want (run a pvp oriented missioning gang through low sec and gank people while you make isk!).

What's wrong with FW?
3. Occupancy mechanics are botched - for all the reasons pointed out in this thread.

Getting two out of three mostly right isn't bad and is more than enough to have loads of fun with. And while occupancy mechanics are botched, there are tons of good fights in plexes every single day.

The main issue I have with FW is the amount of whinage that we FW players put out w.r.t. the botched occupancy mechanics. Yes, they are botched, but 95% of us joined FW for the free war dec and the ability to run FW missions anyways, so who really cares?

And no, botched occupancy mechanics aren't the reason for a decrease in FW activity levels. Only a very small minority of the FW players ever ran plexes to begin with. The reason is lack of good fights. Why is there a lack of good fights? Because everybody is more interested in winning than having good fights.

So please quit trying to win every fight and instead go out and engage your opponent more often even if it means your side may be outgunned on occasion. You'll have more fun. Your opponent will have more fun, and you'll get more people returning to FW because they'll see how much fun you're having while they shoot i-hub whatevers 23/7 in 0.0.

/rant




+1 (and not just because he's a corpmate Razz)

Best part of FW is the 24/7/365 Eve-wide wardec. THIS, they got right, and in a very good way...


CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.23 09:14:00 - [238]
 

Trolling and offtopic posts removed.


Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.04.27 02:50:00 - [239]
 

Come on CCP - some input please?
The thread got cleaned, so someone there IS reading it... DELIVER!!!

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.04.27 04:43:00 - [240]
 

Apparently demanding service for the money you pay is a bannable offence.


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