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Xriss Ravana
Posted - 2011.03.31 17:25:00 - [91]
 

Many is the company that would have stepped in here, locked the subject and hoped never to hear about it again. Kudos on admitting a fault and trying to fix it CCP.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.31 17:33:00 - [92]
 

Appology Accepted, now just follow up as soon as you resonably can.

Onis Reborn
Posted - 2011.03.31 18:14:00 - [93]
 

Either Faction Warfare is going to continue as it is with nothing done to it, and will die off, or CCP is going to do something useful with it to make it actually appeal to people.

I'm fine with either option, I would just like to know one way or the other.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.31 18:16:00 - [94]
 

There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW.

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2011.03.31 18:49:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Nobody joins EVE for FW.


Empyrean Age Teaser

Teaser 2

Trailer

That "War is coming" line definitely pumped me up back then. Razz Ahhh, good times but also makes me sad to see how something I had high hopes in turned into a pile of ****.

To be fair though I believe this is not an issue of CCP hating on FW. It probably is a simple organizational screw-up that just happens and could've hit any of the other roundtables.

The fact that CCP hasn't done anything for FW since it's inception is a mere coincidence as they treat most of their features that way.

Jodie Amille
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.03.31 19:06:00 - [96]
 

FW was so good when people actually fought for plexes

So good.

Now it's just an loliskmachine Laughing

Liorah
Posted - 2011.03.31 19:15:00 - [97]
 

The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence.

Onis Reborn
Posted - 2011.03.31 19:28:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: mkmin
There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW.


This is partly true, and partly misguided. People join Eve for many reason, but a large part of the draw of Eve is the generally interesting PvP. FW is/was intended to be a way to get people engaged in PvP in a semi-organized fashion, while giving them goals and isk rewards as incentive to further the militia. Faction Warfare being a mainly PvP focused idea, and Eve being a mainly PvP focused game, I would think it would benefit them in the long run to improve upon a potentially large market of PvP'ers that need some structure (think other MMO's).

Faction Warfare could and should be a major warzone for relatively new players to get into some fleets and go have at opposing factions, building a better sense of the roleplaying side of the game, and giving players new to PvP an outlet to get their feet wet. Currently its just go to low-sec/null-sec, get blown up, don't understand why, rage at PvP.

There are a lot of good PvP training corps out there, but there are also good FW corps around, but the incentive to participate in FW is nearly non-existant. The incentive to run missions and ignore the actual "warfare" aspect is clearly defined, but victory points and plexes are more or less a moot point, other than for standing.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.31 19:36:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Onis Reborn
Originally by: mkmin
There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW.


This is partly true, and partly misguided. People join Eve for many reason, but a large part of the draw of Eve is the generally interesting PvP. FW is/was intended to be a way to get people engaged in PvP in a semi-organized fashion, while giving them goals and isk rewards as incentive to further the militia. Faction Warfare being a mainly PvP focused idea, and Eve being a mainly PvP focused game, I would think it would benefit them in the long run to improve upon a potentially large market of PvP'ers that need some structure (think other MMO's).

Faction Warfare could and should be a major warzone for relatively new players to get into some fleets and go have at opposing factions, building a better sense of the roleplaying side of the game, and giving players new to PvP an outlet to get their feet wet. Currently its just go to low-sec/null-sec, get blown up, don't understand why, rage at PvP.

There are a lot of good PvP training corps out there, but there are also good FW corps around, but the incentive to participate in FW is nearly non-existant. The incentive to run missions and ignore the actual "warfare" aspect is clearly defined, but victory points and plexes are more or less a moot point, other than for standing.

Yeah, but how would they advertise it? "Hey we fixed one of the many features we released broken and haven't touched since release. It only took us 3 years too. Come play our game! We promise it's really fixed this time!" It would take massive amounts of awesome to make FW a continuously marketable feature, especially when they can instead say "hey, we've got a new feature! Come play our game!" Any new subs from FW were gotten years ago. FW is a corpse. I wonder if it's time to accept that, and to accept that CCP is building a dead game.

CCP Manifest


C C P
Posted - 2011.03.31 20:12:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Liorah
The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence.



Yeah seriously. Not the happiest of mistakes in my book.

Onis Reborn
Posted - 2011.03.31 20:31:00 - [101]
 

I think if you had a healthy base of FW players that were enjoying a renewed and fixed FW aspect, the word of mouth to friends would be a big advertisement on its own. Not that I'm some video game market expert or anything, but I'm sure friend referrals make up a very large portion of new subscribers. At least that's how I hear about a LOT of new people joining games "My friends all play and say X is awesome fun and they get together every night so I signed up" is not uncommon to hear. Gamer communities are very vocal and social, and a happy community is a community that is willing to invite their buddies to join up.

That being said, I'm just glad that FW is going to get at least some attention, and as I previously stated, whether it is positive attention with fixes coming, or an acknowledgement that it isn't important and is more or less scrapped, any information is welcome.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.31 20:46:00 - [102]
 

Maybe a live dev blog where players can ask questions and stuff could be scheduled to make up for this? Make a good portion of it about faction warfare? This mistake can easily be redeemed.

Meeogi
Amarr
Lone Star Privateers
Posted - 2011.03.31 21:03:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Meeogi on 31/03/2011 21:10:32
WEll...if your listening.Smile

I think the lp and reward system is all jacked up.

I'd like to see rankings and lp actually used for FW... For instance, killing an opposing faction pod pilot should reward tons of lp..and podding an opposing capsuleer should be 5 times more then that..After all we are pod pilots and gods among the standard navies'..and eliminating a gods pod should be paid as such.

LP points should be redeemable in super cool things....Id like to see the players rank and lp points used to drop friendly npc frigate gangs ...and the higher the rank the bigger a fleet you can drop..lp points would definatly go up with this. One should also have to have a cyno fitted to drop.

Each FW side should have a main system...with each factions titan located in said system....would also go with the the cynoing of a frigate...cruiser...or BS NPC squad....The Titan could be located in a pos shielded "headquarters" and killing the titan can happen once militia is over run.

Rankings should also come from PVP ...and not from mere plex/missions....one should NEVER be able to become a "general" in a week or two.

On decorations and rewards, other then FW rank...The names of poddings should also be listed....just cause its cool.
You implemented medals ..yet you really dont get them in FW...make that happen. "Meeogi courageously killed Nubs on 3-31-11" something like that.

anyways just jotted down some idea's

<edit> When in fleet if you could set the Fleet Commander...and when people drop fleet have a small rating system that goes into ..or takes away rank would also be cool. Just a simple eve mail..

Amarr would like to thank you for your help in defeating the Minmatar.
Your fleet commander was <insert name> please select 1-10 for <said names> leadership and cunning and you shall be rewarded x sum LP's for your help!.

This would increase the FC participation...and ranks would actually portray leadership...could also be used in applying for other corps. "was a general in FW...what have you ever done.Cool



mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.31 21:17:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Meeogi
WEll...if your listening.Smile

I think the lp and reward system is all jacked up.

I'd like to see rankings and lp actually used for FW... For instance, killing an opposing faction pod pilot should reward tons of lp..and podding an opposing capsuleer should be 5 times more then that..After all we are pod pilots and gods among the standard navies'..and eliminating a gods pod should be paid as such.

LP points should be redeemable in super cool things....Id like to see the players rank and lp points used to drop friendly npc frigate gangs ...and the higher the rank the bigger a fleet you can drop..lp points would definatly go up with this. One should also have to have a cyno fitted to drop.

Each FW side should have a main system...with each factions titan located in said system....would also go with the the cynoing of a frigate...cruiser...or BS NPC squad....The Titan could be located in a pos shielded "headquarters" and killing the titan can happen once militia is over run.

Rankings should also come from PVP ...and not from mere plex/missions....one should NEVER be able to become a "general" in a week or two.

On decorations and rewards, other then FW rank...The names of poddings should also be listed....just cause its cool.
You implemented medals ..yet you really dont get them in FW...make that happen. "Meeogi courageously killed Nubs on 3-31-11" something like that.

anyways just jotted down some idea's


I've always thought adding standings to NPCs target acquisition priority would add a lot of depth to PVE. Throwing pilots into the middle of an epic fight in-progress would be fun, but would also balance out half of the PVP/PVE disparity.

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.03.31 21:26:00 - [105]
 

We love to make you feel awkward CCP Razz

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.03.31 21:48:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Liorah
The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence.



Yeah seriously. Not the happiest of mistakes in my book.

No one at CCP feels responsible for FW and you can't even say for sure who should. Big surprise Rolling Eyes

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.31 21:56:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Myra2007
Originally by: mkmin
Nobody joins EVE for FW.


Empyrean Age Teaser

Teaser 2

Trailer

That "War is coming" line definitely pumped me up back then. Razz Ahhh, good times but also makes me sad to see how something I had high hopes in turned into a pile of ****.

To be fair though I believe this is not an issue of CCP hating on FW. It probably is a simple organizational screw-up that just happens and could've hit any of the other roundtables.

The fact that CCP hasn't done anything for FW since it's inception is a mere coincidence as they treat most of their features that way.
Confirming this is why I started a Minnie char. I had just started playing a week before and had a Gallente char mining rocks in a Navitas when I saw this trailer and the Rifter. Scrapped the Gallente char for a Minnie one and have never looked back.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.31 22:01:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Myra2007
Originally by: mkmin
Nobody joins EVE for FW.


Empyrean Age Teaser

Teaser 2

Trailer

That "War is coming" line definitely pumped me up back then. Razz Ahhh, good times but also makes me sad to see how something I had high hopes in turned into a pile of ****.

To be fair though I believe this is not an issue of CCP hating on FW. It probably is a simple organizational screw-up that just happens and could've hit any of the other roundtables.

The fact that CCP hasn't done anything for FW since it's inception is a mere coincidence as they treat most of their features that way.
Confirming this is why I started a Minnie char. I had just started playing a week before and had a Gallente char mining rocks in a Navitas when I saw this trailer and the Rifter. Scrapped the Gallente char for a Minnie one and have never looked back.

I'd guess that you would no longer be called a "new sub" though. And even if you were, the message is "EVE needs better videos!" not "EVE needs better game mechanics!"

Bob Niac
Gallente
freelancers inc
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2011.03.31 22:30:00 - [109]
 

Soooo ... Live dev blog mebbe? simulcast on EVETV?

Ameline Neko
Posted - 2011.03.31 22:38:00 - [110]
 

And there I was, thinking that the Future Vision video was representing Caldari vs Gallente, and integrating with Dust.
Is FW future being planned behind closed doors as we type?

Ok, doubtful; but hey, gotta have a dream.


Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.03.31 23:49:00 - [111]
 

I'm glad to see a response as to why no one showed. I guess the next question I have is what everyone else is now asking - what is going to be done to fix/improve FW.

A suggestion I have for CCP is to talk to long term FW corp CEO/directors and/or get the various militia to nominate some representation to discuss the issues and put forwards suggestions. I don't want to marginalise the CSM, but discussions regarding FW DO need input from the people who do it, rather then high sec carebears or null sec alliance members, as only people who flip sov, run FW missions and generally run in the FW PvP fleets will know what they think needs to be done.

Onis Reborn
Posted - 2011.03.31 23:57:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Har Harrison


A suggestion I have for CCP is to talk to long term FW corp CEO/directors and/or get the various militia to nominate some representation to discuss the issues and put forwards suggestions. I don't want to marginalise the CSM, but discussions regarding FW DO need input from the people who do it, rather then high sec carebears or null sec alliance members, as only people who flip sov, run FW missions and generally run in the FW PvP fleets will know what they think needs to be done.


Terrific idea here. There are several FW corps that have been at this for a while, I would love to see them get involved.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.01 00:19:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 01/04/2011 00:27:18
Originally by: CCP Manifest
but nobody had properly affirmed their attendance on the dev side.



Does it not strike you that this might be just a symptom of the problem and just as aggravating to hear?

CCP didn't show up because CCP has zero staff with any understanding of FW and zero staff with any responsibility for FW.
While there are too many staff working against FW and deliberately ensuring it receives no resources.

This is the situation we are complaining about, you just described a confirmation of it being a problem.

Fix the structure. Then fix the code.

Originally by: mkmin
There is no $ in faction warfare. It's worth investing 15 minutes of community department's time to appease the current FW players with hollow promises to keep their subs going, but not worth the dev time to actually improve FW. Nobody joins EVE for FW.

These bugs are fixable and will make FW the best small gang PvP in the game once more.

There is no money in FW only because it was neglected by CCP until everyone left to find gameplay which actually works as intended.

After the hype budget for FW some of us kinda expected the simple bugs to be fixed.

Originally by: CCP Manifest

Hopefully some generative discussion was had about FW that can continue here apart from the justified indignation.



Start work.

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.04.01 01:25:00 - [114]
 

Elegant piece of evasion there CCP to not even show up to your own organised event.

Now if only you could do that for all the failing parts of the game; Idea I know, next fanfest why not employ the CSM to host everything and then afterwards do all the development... them suckers will work for free!!!



Jireel
CANUCK ENGINERING
Fade 2 Black
Posted - 2011.04.01 01:26:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Jireel on 01/04/2011 01:29:57
Dudes, a public representative of a company is making a public apology about something. Instead of throwing rocks at him, you should realize it may be the ray of hope you all wanted for years, especially if CCP made a habit of ignoring FW requests for the last years.

About the dev time needed for FW, I suggest that team BFF is actually working on correcting old bugs. They could add those FW bugs to their list, to at least correct the issues if not revamp the features.

PS: I've been looking at faction warfare for some time now, and one of my chars should be free in a approx. a month. Is there any Amarr FW corp alive ? I'm purely looking at the PVP aspect and not willing to do any mission.

Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.01 01:31:00 - [116]
 

When I attended fanfest a few years ago and took part in the first alliance roundtable, myself, a high ranking member of UK, a high ranking member of SF, some guys from Caldari RP and quite a few people showed up for the FW roundtable (it was the first year that fanfest did roundtables). We sat around and CCP explained what FW was about and what plans they had for it.

All of us sitting there explained to CCP at the time (I belive it was Ginger that was there, but we can find out who it was) that RP was a very important part of eve culture and that people and organizations had taken a long time in forging these relationships and animosities and that FW had to take the time to listin to these people and organizations to fine tune it over time. We all warned CCP that if they neglected this (as they had other things and have since then done so) that they were essentially killing RP in eve by taking it, giving it form, then droping the ball.

Now its not just about missing the roundtable - its about listining to a bunch of 0.0 csm's who have no vested interest in FW, to the carebears who want to make money off it, and the prevailing idea that FW is somehow the training grounds for newer pilots and essentially an extended 'live-fire' zone to learn combat. You were warned CCP - and this years CSM will not bring this up or reprisent us.

So if you want to know what is wrong, you need to talk to FW directly since CSM is now essentially run by interest groups, and FW is a declining minority.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.01 01:40:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 01/04/2011 01:40:52
Originally by: Jireel
Dudes, a public representative of a company is making a public apology about something. Instead of throwing rocks at him


Just the latest of many insults to the players of FW.

He can apologise all he likes, won't make the code get written any faster.

Jireel
CANUCK ENGINERING
Fade 2 Black
Posted - 2011.04.01 01:49:00 - [118]
 

Considering the "marketing is always asking people to do silly things in no time" is the #1 complain in all technical departments of the world, I believe he does.

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.04.01 01:59:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Liorah
The single mistake in Fanfest involved the subject that CSM and players have tried and failed to get CCP to pay attention to for years? Man that sure is a heck of a coincidence.



It was a remarkable coincidence that's for sure, the apology from the CCP guy in this thread does seem sincere though.

moneykeeper
Posted - 2011.04.01 02:46:00 - [120]
 

There are loads of obvious things CCP could do to improve faction war. For a start introduce fw jump clones for militia members only. That way people dont need to grinf up 8.0 standings before they can even join.

Fix plexes, so they dont always spawn after downtime. Have faction war gear or ships that can only be used by people in the militia. Make it unsellable, like noobships. Higher fw ranks get better gear.

A few new 0.0 systems bordering fw space, that can only be controled by the militias would be cool. Militia uniforms to play dress up in. Cheap rent in fw stations for militia members if WIS ever comes out.


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