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Yakov Pavlov
Posted - 2011.05.25 21:48:00 - [331]
 

Honestly I don't think it's a matter of losing faith. I think CCP has lost competence .. that or Eve has grown way beyond their ability to respond accordingly. In part, I think that is due to their ineptly piling half-completed feature atop one another for years on end. Looking at the 0.0 changes and mission agent changes, I think they're trying to cut down on the complexity for their own sake. Suppose time will tell if they have the ability to get the bull by the horns.

But I'll not dispute that they're either willfully or ineptly ignoring the problems of FW and rather hoping it quietly goes away. Missing the roundtable after people flew to Iceland was a sign of bungling ineptitude.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.05.25 22:23:00 - [332]
 

Well I'm really not down on ccp. Again I don't think someone should have flown to iceland to find out about fw developments when ccp said a year ago they wouldn't work on it for 18 months.

I think CCP has made a game that is great for new players for about 2 years of play. I do think they could make it a great game for people to play indefinitely - like other great classic games such as chess checkers poker etc. But they haven't. Eve is really not that great to play after about 2 years.

People can cry bitter vet all you want but there is a reason for it.

I think your right they need to develop what they have. I would also say they need to develop and capitalize on the *strengths* of the game. You can't polish a turd and continueing to work on PI and isn't really going to keep players longer.

One huge strength that they never seemed to capitalize on is small scale pvp. FW is the obvious way to foster small scale pvp yet it's ignored.



Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:36:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 26/05/2011 00:50:16

Originally by: Karl Planck
But you are DEAD wrong if you think there aren't a ton of those plexes to run.


This is part of the problem with FW.

People who play it for the few hours a night the mechanic functions see a completely different game in plexing to those who wake up after they've stopped respawning.

edit:
Was looking over videos and minutes last night, CCP constantantly rave on-and-on about how FW will be interated on within 6 months of release.
This was in 2008.

Most we saw was 2 weeks testing where FW players logged all their client data to help CCP find a bug in standings calculation which was causing *all* Eve players sessions changes to desync on jumps.
FW players dedicated time to debugging this for all of Eve, CCP accounted for this time as "FW dev" in their books and that was the last of it. Since then nothing but lies. Not bull****, just lies.

Yakov Pavlov
Posted - 2011.05.26 02:07:00 - [334]
 

Color me shocked, shocked I say! that the fanboy who admittedly blows off any criticism of FW downplays the problems with the Plexing mechanic.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.26 02:22:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Yakov Pavlov
Color me shocked, shocked I say! that the fanboy who admittedly blows off any criticism of FW downplays the problems with the Plexing mechanic.


The mechanic works, just the code need a bug fix to make the plex respawn properly.
Currently the bug causes PvP plexing only work for 3 or so hours after downtime.

This being such a small issue is part of what makes it so ****ing ******ed that CCP can't get off their ****ing ass and fix it.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.27 06:59:00 - [336]
 

Lot of new complaints last night, back to the top.

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.05.27 11:02:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Lot of new complaints last night, back to the top.

Good to see people getting involved and leaving comments - keep them coming people...

Bengal Bob
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.05.27 14:07:00 - [338]
 

Would love to see answers as well as more comments

Yakov Pavlov
Posted - 2011.05.27 14:09:00 - [339]
 

Hear hear ... its been 2 months CCP .. can't figure out a way to be a man and tell us to f-off? I know you're just not that into us .. but at least say so.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:29:00 - [340]
 

Originally by: Yakov Pavlov

But I'll not dispute that they're either willfully or ineptly ignoring the problems of FW and rather hoping it quietly goes away. Missing the roundtable after people flew to Iceland was a sign of bungling ineptitude.


I can tell you one thing, insulting the developers of this game will do absolutely nothing to make things go faster or how you want them. If you're really this angry, get off the forums and stop giving them money. Nothing irritates me more than people who keep paying for a product than raging about how awful it is. You have a choice whether to be here.

This is coming from a guy who really wants FW to improve with CCP help. I'd love to hear their answers to our questions, and I'm frustrated with lack of even a brief heads up as to what they are thinking. A few sentence, ballpark idea of whether they'll revisit it at all could silence the debate and allow players to move on.

That being said, being a complete jerkface only makes the problem worse. If I were the developers, I'd put the requests made by a-holes at the bottom of my priority list.

CCP's Devs and GM's have said in interviews one of the hardest things emotionally is to put your heart and soul into making an incredible game, knowing you can't please everyone, and than have the player base just rip you up and down for every mistake. This kind of disrespectful emo-rage works against the rest of us in the FW community who want to see real change, by painting us as a small sub-group of whiny children who aren't getting what they want when they want. I'd probably ignore Faction Warfare too if this was the overarching vibe I got from those players demanding all other plans be dropped for their niche. I hope for all of our sake they see pilots like you as the exception and not the rule.

CCP still needs to answer the FW community. I wont dispute that. But seriously, grow the eff up for Chribba's sake and either make your requests respectful, STFU and wait patiently, or GTFO.


Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:34:00 - [341]
 

Originally by: Yakov Pavlov
But I'll not dispute that they're either willfully or ineptly ignoring the problems of FW.


It can no longer be put down to simple lack of knowledge. Willful disregard for factional warfare is now the only possible explanation. They have been told what the problems are with factional warfare repeatedly and at length. They have had the problems with factional warfare demonstrated to them first-hand. Threads reporting factional warfare issues on the appropriate forums are habitually locked and hidden. So not only are CCP refusing to fix the problem, they are attempting to remove evidence that people are aware of it.

The only possible remaining explanation, no matter how insane it sounds, is that CCP is intentionally trying to make factional warfare unplayable.

Lost InCogneto
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.05.28 11:14:00 - [342]
 

Good to see this thread is still alive.

Latest update ........................

Posted - 2011.05.12 17:37:00 - [35]

CCP Manifest

******************************
FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF

There were many questions. Many.
I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us.
******************************

Seems like the only question on the - Devs answer your every question - Answer thread - that didnt get answered.

Will be looking forward to it when it comes :)

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.29 02:15:00 - [343]
 

So when does the 18 months of no Eve dev finish?

Lord Meriak
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.05.30 07:40:00 - [344]
 

Still alive and still looking for answer's :D

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:16:00 - [345]
 

These 2 quotes are bang on the money - like real $ subs to CCP money.

Originally by: Liorah

To read the Chronicles, you'd think that the Empires were really at war.

To play the game, "War? What's war?"



Originally by: Cearain

Everyday Eve loses players who can no longer find any decent small gang pvp. Small gang pvp is a real strength of eve. Yet ccp doesn't play to that strength – they completely ignore it!




Having just returned from a few months away one of the first people I spoke to was a friend in the Gal militia, he was hot dropping with 4 carriers and a nyx and telling me that he had got 50 kills to no losses last week, I think Bengal Bob put it well:

Originally by: Bengal Bob

Part of the problem is us. Long gone are the days when we would gleefully x up in general militia channel and happily leeroy off in our 100 man frig blobs to capture plexes and get into haphazard fights with the WT.

Those days are gone. Nowadays, when a new player joins, or even a 0.0 corp filled with fleetsheep, it is like throwing a baby into a pedo pool. Everyone queues up to get in on the new free kills and after a while they are hiding in station doing nothing, or in a sb doing missions. Then we complain there is no one to kill.



Regardless if CCP are paying attention or not FW has grown up. The problems of blobs, hot drops and massive skill gaps between old and new players affect the whole of eve, ultimately it forces non blobbers and mission runners to use cloaked ships or fast frigates because there's no other way to survive.

This isn't actually a bad thing, it's simply a consequence of having meaningful pvp with permanent losses, it also keeps a lot of the teenage rif raf out of the game which is fine by me.

Would I like to see FW get some love, definitely. Do I think that changing plex timers and NPC's will solve FW's problems, not so much. The game is what it is so if you want it to be fun then fly cheap, fly solo and die often.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.05.30 14:45:00 - [346]
 

Originally by: Chris Fierce
To what length will you abuse our patience, Catiline?



I can't resist posting in a thread that quotes Cicero Razz

"Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?"

On topic :
I loved FW and played it avidly for a year before giving up because its many flaws were ignored by CCP.
I'd love to see improvements made and giving it another go.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.31 02:13:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen

CCP's Devs and GM's have said in interviews one of the hardest things emotionally is to put your heart and soul into making an incredible game, knowing you can't please everyone, and than have the player base just rip you up and down for every mistake.



Problem is we believe in the feature, believe it is awesome.
CCP believe they hate it and factions within wish it had never been released.

CCP have no confidence in FW.
Players have much confidence in FW.

The issue isn't that we're telling them it's "****". We're telling them it's awesome and just needs ***TINY*** bug fixes.
Their response is to ignore any FW issue.

Since 2008.

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.05.31 12:34:00 - [348]
 

Quote:
REMEMBER NOUVELLE ROUVENOR!


You posted this on Facebook CCP - so you obviously remember that FW is still around

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul02

So when are we going to here about what is going to be done to
1) Fix the issues/bugs
2) Deliver some of that excellence we have been hoping for??? (i.e. FW Iteration)

Bengal Bob
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.06.02 14:45:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: Har Harrison
Quote:
REMEMBER NOUVELLE ROUVENOR!


You posted this on Facebook CCP - so you obviously remember that FW is still around

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul02

So when are we going to here about what is going to be done to
1) Fix the issues/bugs
2) Deliver some of that excellence we have been hoping for??? (i.e. FW Iteration)

Bodham
Posted - 2011.06.03 18:25:00 - [350]
 

Bump for the most neglected and underdeveloped yet potentially best feature of EVE. CCP please realise this is the PvP fix that WILL GET YOU MORE PLAYERS THAN ANY OTHER - PvP that is actually accessible to players who can't fly supercarriers or T3s or even afford them.

Do you need someone to stab you in the face to make you realise how juicy this low-hanging fruit is?

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.06.04 06:51:00 - [351]
 

Looks like this needs a bump again CCP...

There are lots of fix FW threads popping up - mostly asking for things like the RR <-5 giving faction loss bug and RR spawn plexing to be addressed as well as some chagnes to make the pvp mean something, rather then FW being an isk farm for carebears...

TheMahdi
Posted - 2011.06.05 15:16:00 - [352]
 

Stop ignoring this, it's been a while since last update.

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.06.06 02:15:00 - [353]
 

Seriously - what do we have to do to get some feedback here???

Start reporting our own posts so a human HAS to look at this thread? Or some other activity that probably violates the EULA in some way just to get some attention???

CCP - We just want some constructive dialogue to lay down a road map for some progress in FW... Your playerbase is crying out for it to support small scale PvP.

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.06.06 02:46:00 - [354]
 

Just to be fair to Manifest, I did find this post

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1508537&page=2#35

Quote:

******************************
FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF

There were many questions. Many.
I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us.


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.07 00:26:00 - [355]
 

For years I've watched friends have to quit this game. Calling CCP a scam and pointing out that they specialise in Crowd Control.

I never really believed it, saw enough movement and enough good stuff from CCP that I believed they actually enjoyed making their game.

I was just wrong and telling myself garbage to justify buying into this hoax.

This thread has become a good example of exactly how CCP do business.
Generally bull**** is the primary tool in their arsenel.

This issue has experienced the usual progression of how they kill an issue, simply keep promising things to keep them subscribed as long as possible.
Sooner or later they'll quit and the issue will go away, but not before a profit has been made from the disatisfied customer.


Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.06.07 15:34:00 - [356]
 

And again to be fair CCP said they would not work on fw until December of 2011. So of course there is not much to say. They posted a dev blog explaining how they assigned all the devs to incarna and dust and such.

I guess I would be content with information like - "We plan on setting up a FW dev team of *7* devs in January 2012 and hope to have FW improvements by summer 2012."

Here is the post where I outline when CCP said they were going to stop working on FW for 18 months. It also links the dev blog that verified indeed no devs were working on it because incarna was taking up the lion’s share of resources.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1519684

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.07 16:01:00 - [357]
 

Originally by: yani dumyat

Regardless if CCP are paying attention or not FW has grown up. The problems of blobs, hot drops and massive skill gaps between old and new players affect the whole of eve, ultimately it forces non blobbers and mission runners to use cloaked ships or fast frigates because there's no other way to survive.



It is however a problem to my mind and no this isn't a "whaaa I want 30mil SP" whine (frankly given 30mil SP to spend and being a new sub, it'd be the worlds most broken character). A new player feels forced to use a cloaker or fast frigate to survive, they'll ultimatley look at their SP count slowly rising whilst running from a carrier that's landed on their heads or be booted from a fleet for being in a T1 frig/cruiser and think "Is this fun"? Then click unsub, that hurts CCP and more importantly it hurts us. One less person to fly with and/or shoot at.

How you go about making things fun for new players AND fun for the old ones is... frankly not something I can see a way to do in EVE at the momment, but it is most definetly a problem. And no Fun != instant carrier/T2 gear to my mind, because if everyone has them fleets become even more selective; No logi 5 only 4? GET OUT *boot*.

Perhaps something that makes an FC go "Actually, I want some T1 frigates/cruisers in my fleet rather than AF's/Bombers/etc"... tackling bonuses maybe? *shrug*

Odelya d'Hanguest
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES
Posted - 2011.06.07 21:22:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
In addition to the other excellent suggestions in this thread, could we please have a return to the days of the militias getting orders from VIPs (like here)?

It was good for immersion (for everyone, not just the RPers) and helped to focus the war onto specific systems.
Supported—among many other suggestions and the general ethos of this thread.

And while you create shiny stuff for my next beauty session in CQ—why don't you add militia uniforms that are tied to rank and glory?

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.06.08 01:38:00 - [359]
 

Originally by: Odelya d'Hanguest
Originally by: Rodj Blake
In addition to the other excellent suggestions in this thread, could we please have a return to the days of the militias getting orders from VIPs (like here)?

It was good for immersion (for everyone, not just the RPers) and helped to focus the war onto specific systems.
Supported—among many other suggestions and the general ethos of this thread.

And while you create shiny stuff for my next beauty session in CQ—why don't you add militia uniforms that are tied to rank and glory?


I like the uniform idea - unfortunately carebears will have uber ranks without ever shooting an enemy militia member (i.e. non-NPC) due to how FW works.

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:48:00 - [360]
 

Link to a noob post - wanting to know if/how FW is broken

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1520709

There are the people you want to turn into long time subscribers right CCP???


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