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Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.03.29 04:50:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hayaishi on 29/03/2011 04:52:51
Edited by: Hayaishi on 29/03/2011 04:50:35
I've an idea, obviously, that involves the revamping of the Bounty system. And can be summed up as follows.

  • The person receiving the bounty does not know about it

  • The general EVE populace cannot tell you have a bounty

  • In order to claim a bounty, their will be a bounty hunting registry

  • The system will be stats based, but not explicitly.


So, this is a play through for you.

Some guy killed killed me and I want revenge. So i go to a local station with a bounty hunting service, and I pull up a list of the local/galaxy wide hunters. In this list, i see how many successful bounties each hunter has killed, and how many they have failed.

I can then CHOOSE who I wish to award the bounty contract to, and with that, they are given a prompt (JUST like a contract window) which only says the contact duration, and the ISK reward. If they accept, they see who the target is, and he can go on his merry way. If the target is of blue standing to the hunter, Tough stuff, the hunter has to either kill him, or forfeit the reward and have a black mark on their record (+1 failed bounty).

I know there is flaw in the "blue" system, in that they can share the reward or the hunter can kill him in a noob ship etc, but the system will have another requirement. When the contracter makes the contract, he can also set the BASE SHIP CLASS that has to be killed whilst the mark is piloting. So if you want to ensure their shiny battleship gets killed, the contractee will only be awarded with the ISK when he kills that pilot in that ship class.

I believe having the contract system under a covert system is much better than a loud and out there system, thus making the bounty system an actual worth while and mentionable system of the game.

Your thoughts?

edit: Yes, I do say "system" a lot.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.03.29 10:38:00 - [2]
 

No one has any feedback on this? yay or nay?

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.03.30 07:43:00 - [3]
 

bump?

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.03.31 14:37:00 - [4]
 

Okay well, I'ma just file this away and repost it in a few months.

shadowace00007
Amarr
Beyond The Gates
Posted - 2011.03.31 14:52:00 - [5]
 

I have thought about this myself but here is how I would do it.

you post a contract up for the bounty kill as normal. To get the cash you have to agree to the contract and pay a small fee (like when you send a message to someone but maybe make it like 1M). At witch point you have a week to get the kill and get paid. If you don't get the kill you have to reapply to the bounty contract. and that cash goes to the bounty and adds to it till it is fulfilled.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.03.31 14:58:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: shadowace00007
I have thought about this myself but here is how I would do it.

you post a contract up for the bounty kill as normal. To get the cash you have to agree to the contract and pay a small fee (like when you send a message to someone but maybe make it like 1M). At witch point you have a week to get the kill and get paid. If you don't get the kill you have to reapply to the bounty contract. and that cash goes to the bounty and adds to it till it is fulfilled.


This too can work, I personally want to make it so no one can benefit from it intentionally in the ways of "oh, ill just go pod myself now and get 100 million ISK", in the same sense that I don't want hunters making a down payment for a contract. As many hunters as you like (as set in the contract) can accept it, and then it can be a race for who gets the reward.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.01 09:50:00 - [7]
 

bump

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:15:00 - [8]
 

The idea itself is not bad, but...

NPC corps and highsec would be a first big problem, IMO.

Also, if a guy (A) gets killed by a bounty hunter (B) he might decide to sabotage B's business by sending contracts to that bounty hunter to kill a char that is an alt of A and once the contract has been accepted A doesn't use that char until the contract expires.

If the target is in ws... tough luck.

Money is another problem; hunting a guy down might take time (if the target knows how to watch his back) so, you would need to pay pretty big amounts of isk for such a contract.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:29:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Johnny Lou
The idea itself is not bad, but...

NPC corps and highsec would be a first big problem, IMO.

Also, if a guy (A) gets killed by a bounty hunter (B) he might decide to sabotage B's business by sending contracts to that bounty hunter to kill a char that is an alt of A and once the contract has been accepted A doesn't use that char until the contract expires.

If the target is in ws... tough luck.

Money is another problem; hunting a guy down might take time (if the target knows how to watch his back) so, you would need to pay pretty big amounts of isk for such a contract.


And with that creates a potential for another way to make a reasonable amount of ISK in EVE. For once, it can be more than "Missioning/Ratting/Mining/etc", you can finally get a proper ISK generating PVP system.

As for the afk alt? Just one of those things that can never be solved.

I do not understand what you mean by NPC corps and Highsec. They haven't stopped suicide gankers, why should it stop Bounty Hunters?

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hayaishi

And with that creates a potential for another way to make a reasonable amount of ISK in EVE. For once, it can be more than "Missioning/Ratting/Mining/etc", you can finally get a proper ISK generating PVP system.

first of all no isk is generated, it just changes hands. I was just thinking how expensive it will be.

Originally by: Hayaishi

I do not understand what you mean by NPC corps and Highsec. They haven't stopped suicide gankers, why should it stop Bounty Hunters

there's more logistics involved (a lot more, including standing loss for the bounty hunter which needs fixing) and since the bounty hunter doesn't know who the mark is, he can't know for sure if it is within his reach or not.

I guess what I'm saying is that bounty hunting would be a very tough job given the way you describe it.

It needs more "rules and options and limitations" for example:
you said the contract asks the bounty hunter to kill the target in a certain ship class which is a huge constraint and makes the job close to impossible (if you were a bounty hunter, you would have to follow your target until he finally decides to use the sip class the contract specifies)

I'd rather give the contractor the option to chose price ranges for ship classes; that way the bounty hunter has more options.

also there should be some bonuses included if the target is in npc corp or a huge corporations with lots of people around him and other things like that.

I'll have to come up with a more refined list, right now I'm just throwing out some ideas, from the top of my head.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.02 06:54:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Johnny Lou
Originally by: Hayaishi

And with that creates a potential for another way to make a reasonable amount of ISK in EVE. For once, it can be more than "Missioning/Ratting/Mining/etc", you can finally get a proper ISK generating PVP system.

first of all no isk is generated, it just changes hands. I was just thinking how expensive it will be.

Originally by: Hayaishi

I do not understand what you mean by NPC corps and Highsec. They haven't stopped suicide gankers, why should it stop Bounty Hunters

there's more logistics involved (a lot more, including standing loss for the bounty hunter which needs fixing) and since the bounty hunter doesn't know who the mark is, he can't know for sure if it is within his reach or not.

I guess what I'm saying is that bounty hunting would be a very tough job given the way you describe it.

It needs more "rules and options and limitations" for example:
you said the contract asks the bounty hunter to kill the target in a certain ship class which is a huge constraint and makes the job close to impossible (if you were a bounty hunter, you would have to follow your target until he finally decides to use the sip class the contract specifies)

I'd rather give the contractor the option to chose price ranges for ship classes; that way the bounty hunter has more options.

also there should be some bonuses included if the target is in npc corp or a huge corporations with lots of people around him and other things like that.

I'll have to come up with a more refined list, right now I'm just throwing out some ideas, from the top of my head.


No one ever said Bounty hunting would be easy. In fact it never should be. Hunters, if they are truly good, will go to the ends of the galaxy just to hit their mark. NO one in their right mind would accept a bounty to kill a titan... and again like i said, if the hunter doesn't like the ship class, he doesn't have to accept the contract. Bounty hunting is not for any run of the mill person, it is for the hardest of core people who have the ability to use cloaky t3s, espionage and social engineering to get close to the mark and take him out.

And i know there are MANY EVE players looking for such a feature.

Perhaps this bounty system could coincide with another more open system much like the current one, who knows, but i personally wish that my system be considered.

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.02 11:59:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Hayaishi
No one ever said Bounty hunting would be easy. In fact it never should be. Hunters, if they are truly good, will go to the ends of the galaxy just to hit their mark. NO one in their right mind would accept a bounty to kill a titan... and again like i said, if the hunter doesn't like the ship class, he doesn't have to accept the contract. Bounty hunting is not for any run of the mill person, it is for the hardest of core people who have the ability to use cloaky t3s, espionage and social engineering to get close to the mark and take him out.

1. As general rule I'm not fond of professions that target a rater small and experienced group of players especially if it's possible to avoid that but in this case I guess I can get over it Razz
2. It's not the size of the ship I take issue with but the chances of finding the target in that exact class.

The bounty hunter finds the target flying a myrm but he HAS TO sit and wait until the target finally decides to use a t3 because that's what the contract asks. To me it makes more sense to give more options to the hunter and say: BC - 100, BS - 300m, T3 - 500m (just an example) so the hunter can choose if he wants to wait and get better reward or just get it over with.

Originally by: Hayaishi
And i know there are MANY EVE players looking for such a feature.

I am one of them Wink I like playing the "nice guy" but that means I have to get others to handle the "dirty work". So, I've been waiting for this since I started playing. I just want to make sure it's a profession that people are actually going to join.

Originally by: Hayaishi
Perhaps this bounty system could coincide with another more open system much like the current one, who knows, but i personally wish that my system be considered.

I too wish it was considered since it has some good ideas.

One more note:
Killing a 6 months player sitting in an one man corp is "slightly" different than killing the 2 year old CEO of a well established corporation so the payment should be different. I really like the secrecy around the bounty and the target that you suggested but the age of the char should also be specified in the offer (before it's accepted)

So, basically I'm just asking that
1. you add the age of the target in the initial data
2. change from setting the bounty for a ship class to allow bounties for more ship classes within the same contract
3. allow the hunter to suggest an alternate set of prices to a contract (he sees an initial contract that looks good except for the prices and he would like to make a counter offer which the person who set up the contract can accept or reject and once they agree on the final price the rest of data is revealed as you suggested)

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.02 14:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Johnny Lou
*stuff*


Okay, to re-iterate further on the ship class restriction system, I intended it work work on a ship SIZE system, so "Class: Cruiser" will be any T1,2,3 cruisers and above.

The target age can be shown, but only display the year and month of creation, to limit the chances of people working out who the target is without accepting.

Counter offers can work also. But only Huntees can award contracts, only then can the Hunters counter offer.

GizzyBoy
Posted - 2011.04.02 14:36:00 - [14]
 

Space ship barbie in amarr is unlikely to ever undock, its an alt char, so how would the bounty system deal with scammers and the like who never need to undock.

Aceshigh0
Posted - 2011.04.02 15:07:00 - [15]
 

CONCORD already authorizes full blown wars in hi sec. Why not just turn bounty hunting into single person proxy wars? Have the Bounty cost so much per day/week to maintain hostilities, make the Target blinky to the Bounty Hunter, and send a message to the Target letting him know "someone" is after his bounty. (But not exactly *who*) This gives the BH the element of surprise, but still allows the Targets corp to assist if there in the area. The bounty hunter gets paid based on what he kills, say a percentage of market value of the ship.

Of course you'd have to overhaul the bounty system to allow individuals to take up a specific bounty, but I see no reason why individually packaged wars wouldn't work, and be far simpler/profitable/realistic than forcing the BH to suicide gank. Could be used as a form of assassination I suppose, but every other mechanic in EVE gets abused, no reason to spare this one.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2011.04.02 15:33:00 - [16]
 

Transferrable killrights + payment comes from ship kills. If you have a bounty and are killed, the killer gets either the full basic insurance of your ship instead of you, or the max value of the bounty which is left, whichever is lower. Remaining bounty reduced by payout.

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.02 15:52:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Hayaishi

Okay, to re-iterate further on the ship class restriction system, I intended it work work on a ship SIZE system, so "Class: Cruiser" will be any T1,2,3 cruisers and above.

The target age can be shown, but only display the year and month of creation, to limit the chances of people working out who the target is without accepting.

Counter offers can work also. But only Huntees can award contracts, only then can the Hunters counter offer.

yep, sounds better.

Originally by: GizzyBoy
Space ship barbie in amarr is unlikely to ever undock, its an alt char, so how would the bounty system deal with scammers and the like who never need to undock.


true, this is still an aspect to be considered.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.02 17:45:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Hayaishi on 02/04/2011 17:46:30
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Transferrable killrights + payment comes from ship kills. If you have a bounty and are killed, the killer gets either the full basic insurance of your ship instead of you, or the max value of the bounty which is left, whichever is lower. Remaining bounty reduced by payout.


Well, I've decided to omit the whole concept of showing how many bounties they have failed, and only show their success, so these "scams" will never have an affect.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.03 23:44:00 - [19]
 

bump

Victor BlueStone
Posted - 2011.04.04 05:16:00 - [20]
 

A bounty hunting system should not include anything about what a target is flying. I like the idea about a black mark on a BH that fails a contract so I'm gonna steal that idea for my own BH system. Twisted Evil E.g., when I hire a BH I will only see a percentage of his successes, only the BH himself should know exactly how good or bad he is. Remember a BH needs some mystique for his rep and the success ratio will be part of a guide to evaluate a BH. As for the rest I already have something similar in my system and I've seen these ideas in one form or another from others, also what is presented is too bare bones. It needs a lot more meat to deal with various scenarios that eve pilots will put to test the system. Remember when designing this you have to keep this in mind... How can I cheat this? Cool

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.04.04 10:03:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Victor BlueStone
A bounty hunting system should not include anything about what a target is flying. I like the idea about a black mark on a BH that fails a contract so I'm gonna steal that idea for my own BH system. Twisted Evil E.g., when I hire a BH I will only see a percentage of his successes, only the BH himself should know exactly how good or bad he is. Remember a BH needs some mystique for his rep and the success ratio will be part of a guide to evaluate a BH. As for the rest I already have something similar in my system and I've seen these ideas in one form or another from others, also what is presented is too bare bones. It needs a lot more meat to deal with various scenarios that eve pilots will put to test the system. Remember when designing this you have to keep this in mind... How can I cheat this? Cool


Care to link your system?

I'm keeping my system somewhat bare, so it can be as straight forward as possible. I'm going to make a full system proposal soon once I have collected all the feedback from this thread.

Victor BlueStone
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:40:00 - [22]
 

I've been reading about BH systems for about the past two years on these groups and been formulating a system to work within eve. I was worn out on seeing
the same stuff until your post got my creative juices flowing again and now you've got me adding several more items to my system. Very Happy In my system a bounty
hunter can do more than just blow up the intended target. Twisted Evil Anyway I am at the stage of polishing it and proofreading it. It will be
presented within a greater document about eve pilots. The boring title will be "The Rules of Engagement for EVE by VB" and consist of various chapters
describing new rules on how new eden pilots can interact with each other.

I started out trying to create a BH system but the more I fixed the shortcomings of the old system the more different aspects of eve were touched upon that needed
(re)defining. What is a bounty hunter in eve? Who can be a BH? What are the conditions for a pilot to place a bounty on another? What skills
and mods would be needed? How will bounties be paid and in what manner? How does high/low/null space affect how a BH can operate? Do ships matter for the BH
or the target? What information is available to the public, to the hunter and to the prey? Very Happy These are just some of the questions (and more) to be answered when I
was brainstorming. Once I had the basics I found that my system also affected how eve was, needing other things to be defined. What does it
mean to have your sec status a certain value? What does it mean to be in a rookie corp? In a NPC corp? What does it mean to be a pirate or a merc? All this
mushroomed into the ROE.

With the new forums about the be released I have to see how much info I can present. I also plan to place it on the web page about "making low sec
matter" because part of the ROE also describes changes to make low sec much more dynamic and in the hands of all the pilots there! With OT finally slowing
down at work I can now put everything together and redo the intro. One thing I'm still thinking about is whether the bounty hunter in eve is a mini
profession or a full blown one.

As for your proposal, I agree with most of what you have presented except the part about the ship requirement. One thing though that everyone usually
asks is how are you gonna stop the target from collecting his own bounty? Very Happy Standard question that MUST be asked.


 

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