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AxeMan2
Posted - 2011.04.03 02:00:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: AxeMan2 on 03/04/2011 02:10:34
If you dont scan for 60 seconds, I'll have you probed out and be working on a warp in, and you will have never seen my probes. You need to be able to re-scan about every 10 seconds.

I think what ppl are looking for is: A Radar screen.

Doing away with local chat would actually cause more D-scan and more pain in the ass btw.

Zan Hu
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:43:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Zan Hu on 03/04/2011 08:54:21
Ability to assign a hotkey for the scan button would drastically reduce the stress it causes, but still wouldn't break the pvp/pve balance.

And if the dscan updated itself automatically, a good (and easily implemented) tradeoff could be cap usage. The shorter update interval you choose the faster your cap will drain..

Nuniki
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.03 13:09:00 - [63]
 

As someone who's done belt pirating, etc

Have to say, it really should. Spamming click on either end of the fight is just ******ed. I am in a god damned space ship traversing distances faster then light, while not moving faster then light. My mind and memory is constantly being recorded to essential make me immortal. I have the knowledge to expertly pilot, fit, and fight with a massive variety of ship types and weapon types.

Yet, I just can't figure out how to get that damn scanner to stay on. Man, it's like reading the directions for a watch. If only I hadn't thrown them away. Maybe when I buy a new ship I'll read the manual this time.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.03 14:35:00 - [64]
 

I hate the d-scan. I'm sure it will be changed eventually, just like not being able to see the course of systems you're using outside of the map with set destination was changed.

As it is now, it's just annoying to use.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.04.04 07:48:00 - [65]
 

I think they should replace it with something like submarine sonars. You could have your sensors active, which will find pretty much everything at a long range, but make you show up on everyone else's sensors, or inactive, which won't detect things at nearly as far a range, but won't light you up to everyone else either.

They could even add some kind of "stealth" mechanic (as opposed to cloaking), where you would still show up to probes, on the overview, and visually, but not to ship-board long-range sensors.

It'd add tactical depth and require more thinking and less clicking.

Agamand
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:18:00 - [66]
 

There are lots of good ideas on this thread. Can only hope CCP is listening Very Happy

Armagedoom
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:40:00 - [67]
 

DS should be automatic but with smaller range and it should only show if ships are incoming or in range. Exclude the probes from automatic ds and leave it as manual so we can only know if probes are in space doing manual scan. Also we should have local just like in wormholes systems - If you like to use it its your choice. I think it would make eve a better game.

Deuscariot
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:46:00 - [68]
 

D-Scan is currently too powerful. Remove it altogether.

Players should be forced to rely on luck and psychopathic levels of paranoia to survive. If you aren't twitching violently while watching the belt around you for incoming pirates, you aren't good enough to mine asteroids or plex.

As far as AFK cloaks go - how about we just remove Local altogether? From now on, you will live with the possibility of there being pirates in EVERY system, forever. You will never know who or how many people are in a system at a given time, ever again.

How about these ideas? HMMMM? Suddenly D-Scan is looking pretty awesome, huh?

Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:11:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Anti Castro Pigeons
The ship left the construction bay of the factory craft with most of its fitting-out still to be done. Accelerating hard, its course a four-dimensional spiral through a blizzard of stars where it knew that only danger waited, it powered into hyperspace on spent engines from an overhauled craft of one class, watched its birthplace disappear astern with battle-damaged sensors from a second, and tested outdated weapon units cannibalised from yet another. Inside its warship body, in narrow, unlit, unheated, hard-vacuum spaces, constructor drones struggled to install or complete sensors, displacers, field generators, shield disruptors, laserfields, plasma chambers, warhead magazines, manoeuvring units, repair systems and the thousands of other major and minor components required to make a functional warship. Gradually, as it swept through the vast open reaches between the star systems, the vessel's internal structure changed, and it became less chaotic, more ordered, as the factory drones completed their tasks.

Several tens of hours out on its first journey, while it was testing its track scanner by focusing back along the route it had taken, the ship registered a single massive annihilation explosion deep behind it, where the factory craft had been. It watched the blossoming shell of radiation expand for a while, then switched the scanner field to dead ahead and pushed yet more power through its already overloaded engines.

The ship did all it could to avoid combat; it kept well away from the routes enemy craft would probably use; it treated every hint of any craft as a confirmed hostile sighting. At the same time, as it zigzagged and ducked and weaved and rose and fell, it was corkscrewing as fast as it could, as directly as it dared, down and across the strand of the galactic arm in which it had been born, heading for the edge of that great isthmus and the comparatively empty space beyond. On the far side, on the edge of the next limb, it might find safety.

Just as it arrived at that first border, where the stars rose like a glittering cliff alongside emptiness, it was caught.

A fleet of hostile craft, whose course by chance came close enough to that of the fleeing ship, detected its ragged, noisy emission shell, and intercepted it. The ship ran straight into their attack and was overwhelmed. Out-armed, slow, vulnerable, it knew almost instantly that it had no chance even of inflicting any damage on the opposing fleet.

So it destroyed itself, detonating the stock of warheads it carried in a sudden release of energy which for a second, in hyperspace alone, outshone the yellow dwarf star of a nearby system.

Scattered in a pattern around it, an instant before the ship itself was blown into plasma, most of the thousands of exploding warheads formed an outrushing sphere of radiation through which any escape seemed impossible. In the fraction of a second the entire engagement lasted, there were at the end some millionths when the battle-computers of the enemy fleet briefly analysed the four-dimensional maze of expanding radiation and saw that there was one bewilderingly complicated and unlikely way out of the concentric shells of erupting energies now opening like the petals of some immense flower between the star systems. It was not, however, a route the Mind of a small, archaic warship could plan for, create and follow.

By the time it was noticed that the ship's Mind had taken exactly that path through its screen of annihilation, it was too late to stop it from falling away through hyperspace towards the small, cold planet fourth out from the single yellow sun of the nearby system.


Good book.

Rek Jaiga
Minmatar
Crimson Path
Posted - 2011.04.10 01:11:00 - [70]
 

As an RPer, I'd say the scan delay on the dscanner has an explanation.

Do you realize the technical complexity of analyzing literally thousands of objects and determining what in fact they are? Your ship can't get a signal from an object and automatically conclude "Yep, that's an asteroid"; it has to analyze every single entity in order to determine what they are. This processing/analyzing time could be the recalibration time we're told when we try to spam the "scan" button.

Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.04.10 06:16:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Rek Jaiga
As an RPer, I'd say the scan delay on the dscanner has an explanation.

Do you realize the technical complexity of analyzing literally thousands of objects and determining what in fact they are? Your ship can't get a signal from an object and automatically conclude "Yep, that's an asteroid"; it has to analyze every single entity in order to determine what they are. This processing/analyzing time could be the recalibration time we're told when we try to spam the "scan" button.


Technically complex enough analyze thousands of objects but not complex enough to refresh itself after recalibration?

Rek Jaiga
Minmatar
Crimson Path
Posted - 2011.04.10 06:26:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Rek Jaiga on 10/04/2011 06:27:05
Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu


Technically complex enough analyze thousands of objects but not complex enough to refresh itself after recalibration?

It trades the ability to analyze thousands of objects more or less instantly for the ability to refresh itself. There is a physical limit to even the most advanced technologies.

I really see no problem with the dscanner as it is now. I mean I'm pretty proficient with it and can get even those who are in "strong" safespots down to five degrees within a minute. It works well if you know how to use it.

Serenthris Landry
Posted - 2011.04.11 16:22:00 - [73]
 

Nice troll!

Award for best balance suggestion for proposed auto-scanning functionality goes to...

Originally by: Sphit Ker

Auto-dscaning will ensure the probes gets a nice continuous signal to lock on.

So, with auto-dscan, youíre likely to spot everything thatís heading your way real easy but then again everything will be coming for you just as easily.


Purest win!


Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:02:00 - [74]
 

WTB: An brick for my d-scan button.

Boon McBwen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:43:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Boon McBwen on 12/04/2011 13:45:10
Quote:
lets not forget how large 1 AU is.


an AU is 149,598,000 kilometers long... roughly 93m miles... the distance from the sun to the earth... AU stands for astronomical unit

Dr Jenny Kohler
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:08:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Rek Jaiga
As an RPer, I'd say the scan delay on the dscanner has an explanation.

Do you realize the technical complexity of analyzing literally thousands of objects and determining what in fact they are? Your ship can't get a signal from an object and automatically conclude "Yep, that's an asteroid"; it has to analyze every single entity in order to determine what they are. This processing/analyzing time could be the recalibration time we're told when we try to spam the "scan" button.


Also as an RPer I will point out that there is already an auto updating omnidirectional scanner that has zero delay and 100% accuracy. It is able to highlight and provide detailed information and targeting coordinates to even the smallest of objects. The pilot can customize the readout to show those objects that are of importance to the pilot, while "hiding" the unimportant ones. This scanner can also instantaneously locate established broadcast nodes, moons, planets and stars.

The only drawback of this scanner is that it uses lightspeed scaning so it's accurate range is only a few hundred kilometers, give or take. anything beyond this range is ignored due to inaccuracies inherent in the delay of information.

Most pilots refer to this scanner as the overview


Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.04.12 16:06:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Rek Jaiga
Edited by: Rek Jaiga on 10/04/2011 06:27:05
Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu


Technically complex enough analyze thousands of objects but not complex enough to refresh itself after recalibration?

It trades the ability to analyze thousands of objects more or less instantly for the ability to refresh itself. There is a physical limit to even the most advanced technologies.

I really see no problem with the dscanner as it is now. I mean I'm pretty proficient with it and can get even those who are in "strong" safespots down to five degrees within a minute. It works well if you know how to use it.


"Ability to refresh itself" and "ability to analyze..." are not things that a mutually exclusive. It just takes a simple function and a timer. Doesn't make sense.

Dscan, as a tool for finding people, is fantastic. Its precise and easy to use (though having a dropdown list for commonly used distances would be nice, as is having an option to disable refresh on changing the scan field of view). It works fine with belt piracy and canflipping.

Dscan is fine if you want to find people to kill but not so good if you have to sit out in space for long periods of time. Unless you mash the button every few seconds you won't see probes coming at you. Its fine if you aren't doing anything in space or some other low activity activity, but when you are doing something like mission or salvage or w/e that involves a moderate activity soon mashing the button becomes a hassle.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.05.26 02:21:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Annie Anomie
Originally by: Anti Castro Pigeons
The ship left the construction bay of the factory craft with most of its fitting-out still to be done. Accelerating hard, its course a four-dimensional spiral through a blizzard of stars where it knew that only danger waited, it powered into hyperspace on spent engines from an overhauled craft of one class, watched its birthplace disappear astern with battle-damaged sensors from a second, and tested outdated weapon units cannibalised from yet another. Inside its warship body, in narrow, unlit, unheated, hard-vacuum spaces, constructor drones struggled to install or complete sensors, displacers, field generators, shield disruptors, laserfields, plasma chambers, warhead magazines, manoeuvring units, repair systems and the thousands of other major and minor components required to make a functional warship. Gradually, as it swept through the vast open reaches between the star systems, the vessel's internal structure changed, and it became less chaotic, more ordered, as the factory drones completed their tasks.

Several tens of hours out on its first journey, while it was testing its track scanner by focusing back along the route it had taken, the ship registered a single massive annihilation explosion deep behind it, where the factory craft had been. It watched the blossoming shell of radiation expand for a while, then switched the scanner field to dead ahead and pushed yet more power through its already overloaded engines.

The ship did all it could to avoid combat; it kept well away from the routes enemy craft would probably use; it treated every hint of any craft as a confirmed hostile sighting. At the same time, as it zigzagged and ducked and weaved and rose and fell, it was corkscrewing as fast as it could, as directly as it dared, down and across the strand of the galactic arm in which it had been born, heading for the edge of that great isthmus and the comparatively empty space beyond. On the far side, on the edge of the next limb, it might find safety.

Just as it arrived at that first border, where the stars rose like a glittering cliff alongside emptiness, it was caught.

A fleet of hostile craft, whose course by chance came close enough to that of the fleeing ship, detected its ragged, noisy emission shell, and intercepted it. The ship ran straight into their attack and was overwhelmed. Out-armed, slow, vulnerable, it knew almost instantly that it had no chance even of inflicting any damage on the opposing fleet.

So it destroyed itself, detonating the stock of warheads it carried in a sudden release of energy which for a second, in hyperspace alone, outshone the yellow dwarf star of a nearby system.

Scattered in a pattern around it, an instant before the ship itself was blown into plasma, most of the thousands of exploding warheads formed an outrushing sphere of radiation through which any escape seemed impossible. In the fraction of a second the entire engagement lasted, there were at the end some millionths when the battle-computers of the enemy fleet briefly analysed the four-dimensional maze of expanding radiation and saw that there was one bewilderingly complicated and unlikely way out of the concentric shells of erupting energies now opening like the petals of some immense flower between the star systems. It was not, however, a route the Mind of a small, archaic warship could plan for, create and follow.

By the time it was noticed that the ship's Mind had taken exactly that path through its screen of annihilation, it was too late to stop it from falling away through hyperspace towards the small, cold planet fourth out from the single yellow sun of the nearby system.


Good book.


agreed

Armas Lankku
Posted - 2011.05.26 02:28:00 - [79]
 

ugh

Rob Bison
Posted - 2011.05.26 04:58:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
DScan an Antiquated Tool?

What do you guys think?

Nope.

Shawnee Apol
Posted - 2011.05.26 15:20:00 - [81]
 

I didn't realize EVE had so many pussies playing that would cry about clicking a button. Clicking a button is hard, I want to be lazy. WHAAAAAAA, CCP, please change the game so I can be a lazy bastard.

Lirinas
Posted - 2011.05.26 20:38:00 - [82]
 

DScan is a relic from the earliest days of EVE. Back then, that was the only tool we had to actually scope-out a system. For eight years, this tool has remained virtually unchanged. When Apocrypha and Probing Mark III was released, I predicted that DScan to finally be retired and removed from the games. Obviously, my prediction was incorrect, as it's still around today, and with all of it's faults, it's still deemed a necessity for today's Capsuleers.

I feel that DScan as it exists now, does not belong in EVE. In many ways, it's too powerful, imparting too much information too quickly for too little work (beyond the clicking of the button 10^30 times per minute).

My opinion is that DScan should be removed entirely. But to do so, there would need to be some tweaks to the existing Probe system, most likely in the introduction of some new probe types. There's already been some excellent suggestions by others that have posted before me, and I've read other good suggestions in the past in I&F.

Zak Zerachiel
Caldari
Helljumpers
En Garde
Posted - 2011.05.27 05:10:00 - [83]
 

Holy crap.
Thinly veiled AFK CLOAKER WHINE.
Don't tell everyone that you're offering this to help "not break immersion," "permit bot griefing" and "end AFK cloaker threads"... THIS IS AN AFK CLOAKER THREAD.

If you want to spend your time in null-sec/low-sec, then you need to remember the risk vs. reward argument. This change ultimately only benefits the carebears.

This proposed "positive" change could also help ruin the scouts job: catching a quick d-scan (that doesn't auto-refresh) that has the enemy fleet composition is a very useful tool, that your "oh no the bad guize will get me" change will take away.

Immersion my coin purse.
Stop whining. Go to another, quieter, and yes possibly less valuable system if the afk cloakers are ruining your day.

Harlequin Sweetlips
Posted - 2011.05.28 23:42:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Nuniki
As someone who's done belt pirating, etc

Have to say, it really should. Spamming click on either end of the fight is just ******ed. I am in a god damned space ship traversing distances faster then light, while not moving faster then light. My mind and memory is constantly being recorded to essential make me immortal. I have the knowledge to expertly pilot, fit, and fight with a massive variety of ship types and weapon types.

Yet, I just can't figure out how to get that damn scanner to stay on. Man, it's like reading the directions for a watch. If only I hadn't thrown them away. Maybe when I buy a new ship I'll read the manual this time.


And don't forget, celestial coordinates have to be written down on a post-it note with a pin in it. You can't like send them by radio or anything! Confused

Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.05.29 00:14:00 - [85]
 

d-scan is a great and necessary tool. It gives the experienced and vigilant player invaluable knowledge and awareness of the solarsystem, while at the same time having very significant drawbacks, such as the limited range, the inability to tell friend from foe, and not knowing the exact range of non-celestial objects that are not on grid. Its very balanced. However, it is a pain in the ass to use, and requires some skill to use well.

I would like it if ccp took a look at it, perhaps in a way to make it interface better with the solarsystem map.

gonesideways
Posted - 2011.05.29 13:44:00 - [86]
 

D-scan isn't broken it works pretty good, although I'm not great with it but haven't spent the time to get good so it's my own fault.

I will say on the scanning with probes issue though I've always been choked u cant shoot em.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.05.30 02:00:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 30/05/2011 02:05:27
Originally by: Shawnee Apol
I didn't realize EVE had so many pussies playing that would cry about clicking a button. Clicking a button is hard, I want to be lazy. WHAAAAAAA, CCP, please change the game so I can be a lazy bastard.


I don't think this discussion is about being lazy or weak or pussies or whatever you think of it. In one perspective, it's the same as being able to fit your ship by using the fitting tool's feature to fit a specific set of modules without having to place them one by one, or being able to move multiple items in just a few clicks or being able to autopilot.

Dscan as it is now is a clickfest. It could use some refinement. I live in w-space. You either click or die. There's no local to rely upon. There are no moments of "relative" safety because you can't know whether everyone in the system is blue or red because you can't know who the hell is in the system.

I think it's requirement that the player pay attention is important. How to retain that and reduce the clickfest? One way might be to allow short periods of automatic scanning that after an amount of time lapses, the player would be required to reinitiate scanning.

Quote:

D-scan isn't broken it works pretty good, although I'm not great with it but haven't spent the time to get good so it's my own fault.



If you're not that good with it how can you say whether it's 'pretty good' or 'pretty bad'? Go to w-space where you can't rely on local to determine if a system is safe or not. You're literally clicking dscan every 2 - 20 seconds the entire time you're in a w-space system. And sometimes, that can be hours especially if you're not in your own w-space system and have no safe haven like a pos. It's a clickfest.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.30 02:05:00 - [88]
 

I like the idea that d-scan should be continuous but turn you into a beacon-point for everyone in the cone you're scanning, meaning that you can see that they are in your scanned volume somewhere but they can warp to you if they q-click you before you can turn the scanner off.

This would give us a sort of submarine-warfare aspect. You can be harder to pin down but rely mostly on passive sensors (i.e. only able to see things on grid), or you can actively hunt for people but reveal yourself in the process with active sensors (d-scan), or you can gain data from remotes sensors/satellites (probes).

Euphonus
Posted - 2011.05.30 15:34:00 - [89]
 

You kidding me? D-scan is perfectly fine as it is. Automated d-scan is just an excuse for whiny carebears to get their instant "Immortality" button (or lack of-button, in this case). Only thing that needs changing is the ability to use AU's or km's when entering a distance in the d-scan- coming from someone who uses it everyday, in systems without local, to kill things.

Darcy D'Spledide
Posted - 2011.05.30 17:31:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Darcy D''Spledide on 30/05/2011 17:31:51
Originally by: Anti Castro Pigeons
some Iain M Banks stuff


Good work sir and/or madam, good work.

Nothing wrong with D-scan, working as intended.
If you want a fluff justification (flufftification?) you can imagine that D-scan is your advanced capsuleer brain pulsing out wide-spectra-goggle-rays to detect ships. It takes a lot of effort to generate wide-spectra-goggle-rays. This is represented, at CCP's express intent, in your developing carpal tunnel syndrome.

So when you are old and grey and you can no longer hold your manhood to take a wee, think how bad it would be if you really were a capsuleer.
It probably would have fallen off by your age.
Aren't you lucky.


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