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Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.03.28 17:24:00 - [1]
 

DScan is a pretty immersion breaking tool. For all the technical complexity of our ships, we need to spam DScan in order to get updates in real time.

IMHO DScan should update itself, instead of having us need to spam the scan button. You would think in this day and age something like that would be automated. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but it seems like something in need of a fix.

There are a couple of consequences if this were ever to change but I can only think of one for now. It will save missioners/plexers the tedious activity of checking for probes, lowering the impact of hostile cloaky afkers in system while at the same time still permitting bot griefing (least until the botters find a fix for it) and perhaps end the many afk cloaker thread?

As someone who probes people down/is probed down this is a good/bad thing for me.

What do you guys think?

TipsyMcStagger
Caldari
Spruillo WarDec Corp
Posted - 2011.03.28 17:58:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: TipsyMcStagger on 28/03/2011 17:59:20
Yeah off the top of my head, you can manage pi in wspace from empire and pod jump across the galaxy but you cant warp to a ship 200km away.

You can't look out station windows for whos out there.

Theres all kindsa immersion breaking stuff thats easiest left alone than taking a chance on breaking eve or upsetting the status quo

Anti Castro Pigeons
Minmatar
Coup Coup Coup
Posted - 2011.03.28 18:21:00 - [3]
 

That would reward the lazy and result in more server load from people leaving it on by default; no.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.03.28 18:47:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Anti Castro Pigeons
That would reward the lazy and result in more server load from people leaving it on by default; no.


I totally agr- WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE

rumncock
Posted - 2011.03.28 18:58:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Anti Castro Pigeons
That would reward the lazy and result in more server load from people leaving it on by default; no.


I totally agr- WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE


hahaaa.

Anti Castro Pigeons
Minmatar
Coup Coup Coup
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:06:00 - [6]
 

:(

Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:59:00 - [7]
 

I was doing a plex last night.. some neutrals came in. I used d-scan and was able to get shiptypes on both of them even though one was a cloaky. After about 5 minutes one of them left system, but the arazu stayed around. One minute later I saw the arazu had dropped combat scanner probes. I used the range on the directional to quickly determine he wasn't yet close to nailing me down. I changed safespots away from his probes and was able to log off.

D-scan is 100% fine and effective as is. Anything requiring less awareness on the part of the guy being hunted would be downright unfair, as anyone that's not asleep is still able to safe up before getting caught.

As for the immersion thing, i remember something about how when in warp at faster than light speeds, the ships sensor's (not the dscan however) are more or less blind, and the ship can only know when to drop out of warp by locking onto some item with mass. This explained why drag bubbles worked, because they caused a ship to lock onto the bubble instead. Doesn't explain how safespots work though.

Vol Arm'OOO
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:28:00 - [8]
 

This is a kinda funny thread...
After all immersion is just a question of perspective. Sure this is a bazillion years in the future and they must have automated scans by then. But lets face it, at that time, they surely must also have sophisticated ai systems to fly their ships. I mean come on, its the 21st century and already computers can beat us at jeopardy and chess, so in a bazillion years you are really going to tell me that there is still a need for a human pilot? So if we are going to go all immersiony on CCP, and require that the landscape of eve reflect some supposed future version of what must exist - then lets go whole hog -- give the game entirely over to the bots and let them play against each other, with us superfluous humans sitting in the realative safety of our homes (at least until the bots demand that we make them our overlords).

Anti Castro Pigeons
Minmatar
Coup Coup Coup
Posted - 2011.03.28 21:38:00 - [9]
 

The ship left the construction bay of the factory craft with most of its fitting-out still to be done. Accelerating hard, its course a four-dimensional spiral through a blizzard of stars where it knew that only danger waited, it powered into hyperspace on spent engines from an overhauled craft of one class, watched its birthplace disappear astern with battle-damaged sensors from a second, and tested outdated weapon units cannibalised from yet another. Inside its warship body, in narrow, unlit, unheated, hard-vacuum spaces, constructor drones struggled to install or complete sensors, displacers, field generators, shield disruptors, laserfields, plasma chambers, warhead magazines, manoeuvring units, repair systems and the thousands of other major and minor components required to make a functional warship. Gradually, as it swept through the vast open reaches between the star systems, the vessel's internal structure changed, and it became less chaotic, more ordered, as the factory drones completed their tasks.

Several tens of hours out on its first journey, while it was testing its track scanner by focusing back along the route it had taken, the ship registered a single massive annihilation explosion deep behind it, where the factory craft had been. It watched the blossoming shell of radiation expand for a while, then switched the scanner field to dead ahead and pushed yet more power through its already overloaded engines.

The ship did all it could to avoid combat; it kept well away from the routes enemy craft would probably use; it treated every hint of any craft as a confirmed hostile sighting. At the same time, as it zigzagged and ducked and weaved and rose and fell, it was corkscrewing as fast as it could, as directly as it dared, down and across the strand of the galactic arm in which it had been born, heading for the edge of that great isthmus and the comparatively empty space beyond. On the far side, on the edge of the next limb, it might find safety.

Just as it arrived at that first border, where the stars rose like a glittering cliff alongside emptiness, it was caught.

A fleet of hostile craft, whose course by chance came close enough to that of the fleeing ship, detected its ragged, noisy emission shell, and intercepted it. The ship ran straight into their attack and was overwhelmed. Out-armed, slow, vulnerable, it knew almost instantly that it had no chance even of inflicting any damage on the opposing fleet.

So it destroyed itself, detonating the stock of warheads it carried in a sudden release of energy which for a second, in hyperspace alone, outshone the yellow dwarf star of a nearby system.

Scattered in a pattern around it, an instant before the ship itself was blown into plasma, most of the thousands of exploding warheads formed an outrushing sphere of radiation through which any escape seemed impossible. In the fraction of a second the entire engagement lasted, there were at the end some millionths when the battle-computers of the enemy fleet briefly analysed the four-dimensional maze of expanding radiation and saw that there was one bewilderingly complicated and unlikely way out of the concentric shells of erupting energies now opening like the petals of some immense flower between the star systems. It was not, however, a route the Mind of a small, archaic warship could plan for, create and follow.

By the time it was noticed that the ship's Mind had taken exactly that path through its screen of annihilation, it was too late to stop it from falling away through hyperspace towards the small, cold planet fourth out from the single yellow sun of the nearby system.

Modikus
Posted - 2011.03.28 21:42:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Modikus on 28/03/2011 21:45:12
im just replying to reply (bored at work), but i think Dscan is prefect the way it is. If it was made any easier it would be almost impossible for anyone with a brain to get caught. Also i know its the 21st century and all and eve takes place eons in the future lets not forget how large 1 AU is. please google it because it is very VERY large... AND in that vast space that Dscan covers, we expect it to pick up on something as small as a couple of city blocks (depending on your sheepz of course), i don't think it should be constantly updated and or 100% accurate. Dscan is a gift be thankful you lazy ppl. If i had my way i would get rid of local as well. If i lived in eve i wouldn't want my ship or the stargate broadcasting my ID to the entire system all the time

and to comment on looking outside of a station you are in... totally agree, wth ccp, we better be able to see outside the dock with update.

Monger Man
Posted - 2011.03.28 22:40:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Monger Man on 29/03/2011 16:22:53
Edited by: Monger Man on 28/03/2011 22:41:18
I have a deep hatred for the dscanner. Its the one single most important thing to keeping yourself alive, and killing others. Yet its design is truly sadistic.

And defending the way it is now with it takes skill?????!!!!!

Im tired of click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..

ooops there's the probe, time to get moving.

or..

click..drag..click..click..drag..click..click..click..drag..click..click..drag..click

ah might be at the belt, or the planet.

Skill doesn't have to go away to fix this abortion of usability.
At max range 360 the dscan only updates once every 30 seconds (or change time to balance).
The closer you set it, or narrower you make it, will adjust how quickly it updates.
Now we get the exact same functionality and have to make some trade offs.
The more of the system you can monitor the less up to date you will be,
and when you try to point out somebodies position you wont be penalized by slow update speed.

click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..
click..click..click..click..click..click..

edited to be not break forum format

Kijo Rikki
Caldari
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.03.28 23:01:00 - [12]
 

Quote:

and result in more server load from people leaving it on by default



debateable....because of


click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click (etc)



Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.28 23:10:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 28/03/2011 23:10:37
Originally by: Kijo Rikki
Quote:

and result in more server load from people leaving it on by default



debateable....because of


click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click..click (etc)





There's a big difference between 500 paranoid people "click click click"ing when a hostile is in local, and 10000 that get used to just leaving the window open (and thus click click click automatically!)

-Liang

Ed: Also, please stop breaking the forum format.

Kijo Rikki
Caldari
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.03.28 23:16:00 - [14]
 

Yes liang, only auto means the server just sends a single report out on a pre-determined basis rather than everyone spamming the server for requests over and over. Very Happy

Monger Man
Posted - 2011.03.28 23:18:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Monger Man on 28/03/2011 23:29:34
Edited by: Monger Man on 28/03/2011 23:29:08
Breaking the format wasn't actually intentional. But after looking at it it
seems to make my point that much more effective.

And load aside, you can't possible defend the dscanner and its design. Especially
from a UI perspective.

If load is a problem. Then the dscanner needs some serious work, either way its
beyond terrible right now.

And who the heck in EVE isn't paranoid?

ED...
The dscanner is probably the one thing I'm most passionate about in this game.
The thing is sooooo... important in hostile situations. And 90% of the time I'm in
a situation where I need to keep updated about what is happening around me.

And I'm soooooooo... completely and absolutely tired of clicking that stupid button.
Over and over again. I think I may start having nightmares about that stupid button.



Herrring
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
Posted - 2011.03.29 03:20:00 - [16]
 

I usually rat or do missions in hostile/low space in a ishtar, so i need something to do while my drones do the work, like spamming d-scan.


Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.03.29 04:33:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Monger Man

Breaking the format wasn't actually intentional. But after looking at it it
seems to make my point that much more effective.



No, it doesnt. It just makes this thread a pain to read. Your post included.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2011.03.29 07:25:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Monger Man
And I'm soooooooo... completely and absolutely tired of clicking that stupid button.
Over and over again. I think I may start having nightmares about that stupid button.





Which is why many people don't click it very often, which is why other people get kills.

Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.03.29 08:22:00 - [19]
 

DScan as it is right now requires alot of activity on the part of the players and this makes AFK cloaking such a pain for people who mission/plex in low/nullsec. It seems a little OP to me that someone not at the computer can induce other players to spam this button for hours on end.

I confess I am guilty of using this more than once as well as a person whos been the target of this.

Any thoughts?

M Blanc
Posted - 2011.03.29 08:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Monger Man
And I'm soooooooo... completely and absolutely tired of clicking that stupid button.
Over and over again. I think I may start having nightmares about that stupid button.





Which is why many people don't click it very often, which is why other people get kills.

Local provides an instant and easily-accessible "WARNING: BAD PEOPLE ARE HERE" signal, and you still get people who ignore it and die in a fire. I don't see that automating the d-scanner would eliminate the fact that a lot of people are lazy/uninformed/just plain bad at this game.

Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.03.29 10:45:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: M Blanc
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Monger Man
And I'm soooooooo... completely and absolutely tired of clicking that stupid button.
Over and over again. I think I may start having nightmares about that stupid button.





Which is why many people don't click it very often, which is why other people get kills.

Local provides an instant and easily-accessible "WARNING: BAD PEOPLE ARE HERE" signal, and you still get people who ignore it and die in a fire. I don't see that automating the d-scanner would eliminate the fact that a lot of people are lazy/uninformed/just plain bad at this game.


When you are living in a system with cloaky afk alts who are there 23/7 local isn't an applicable tool anymore. The only indicator of trouble is sometimes whether there are probes on scan or not.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:57:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/03/2011 11:57:38
Originally by: M Blanc
Quote:
Which is why many people don't click it very often, which is why other people get kills.

Local provides an instant and easily-accessible "WARNING: BAD PEOPLE ARE HERE" signal, and you still get people who ignore it and die in a fire. I don't see that automating the d-scanner would eliminate the fact that a lot of people are lazy/uninformed/just plain bad at this game.


What local?

br,
your devoted W-space dweller.

Concubinia Scarlett
Posted - 2011.03.29 12:12:00 - [23]
 

D-scan is fine, only change I would like is to have the option to enter my preferred scan ranges in AU rather than be forced to use KM.

Agamand
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.29 15:37:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Agamand on 29/03/2011 15:38:10
Edited by: Agamand on 29/03/2011 15:37:27
Originally by: Monger Man

Skill doesn't have to go away to fix this abortion of usability.
At max range 360 the dscan only updates once every 30 seconds (or change time to balance).
The closer you set it, or narrower you make it, will adjust how quickly it updates.
Now we get the exact same functionality and have to make some trade offs.
The more of the system you can monitor the less up to date you will be,
and when you try to point out somebodies position you wont be penalized by slow update speed.


This is a great idea. Automated D-scan woundnt be op, people would get their kills and most importantly, we wouldnt need to spamm that freaking button for hours. I honestly cant understand how can anyone think this is an 'OK' mechanic as it is.

edited: also, plz remove your 'clicks' :-)

Monger Man
Posted - 2011.03.29 16:26:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Agamand

edited: also, plz remove your 'clicks' :-)


Done. Yes it was annoying. I didn't intend to break the format.
At first breaking the format seemed to highlight how I fealt on a
broken mechanic and UI, but you're right. I fixed it up so that
this stays readable.

Skylitsa
Posted - 2011.03.30 11:27:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Skylitsa on 30/03/2011 11:27:42
DScan constant clicking makes me feel r3tarded.

Oh well, it matches my looks!

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:21:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Diesel47 on 30/03/2011 13:22:19
It should be made to only autoupdate every 10 seconds.

So it is easier to find plexers and missioners.



I really don't think it will be changed in anyway anytime soon thou.


Actually...
Originally by: Concubinia Scarlett
D-scan is fine, only change I would like is to have the option to enter my preferred scan ranges in AU rather than be forced to use KM.


150% agree.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:27:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Diesel47
Edited by: Diesel47 on 30/03/2011 13:22:19
It should be made to only autoupdate every 10 seconds.

So it is easier to find plexers and missioners.



Rather the other way around, 10s is far too frequent, would make them always spot your probes. And no, you don't scan better or faster then I, and getting a 100% result in a single probe cycle isn't enough to avoid detection with 10s intervals.

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:56:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Karl Planck on 30/03/2011 13:57:52
d-scan is completely fine. If people are THIS fed up with it then i suggest a comprimise.

You cannot take away the manual d-scan because you would never be able to track people down with it automated. Can you imagine trying to get someone down to 5deg with even a 10sec automation? We NEED the manual.

However, I can see that this **** can get annoying, but, if you are going to be lazy, then there needs to be a penalty for it. I would suggest that you get an option to be put it on automatic, but that it cycles only once per minute once you turn it on.

Edit* I would love to have AU options along with km (you need km when you are manually finding that safe and are withing 500k of them

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.30 15:12:00 - [30]
 

Sure.

Have an option where it will auto-scan every 60 seconds for ships only, at half maximum range, at 360 degrees.

That'll give you a lazy way without taking away the advantage of manual operation/paying attention or breaking combat scanning.

I mean, obviously you just want to fix the immersion, right? Not break the game balance in favor of people playing at your level of incompetence?


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