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T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2011.04.03 02:40:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Kitty Cantblock
I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.


I think your math is off. I just emptied my system of Veld (9hrs) and ended up with about 60mil trit which is currently going for a bit over 171mil isk.


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.04.03 02:44:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: T'Laar Bok
I think your math is off. I just emptied my system of Veld (9hrs) and ended up with about 60mil trit which is currently going for a bit over 171mil isk.


How many characters were involved with that mining operation?

Celestis VanBuuren
Posted - 2011.04.03 03:44:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: T'Laar Bok
Originally by: Kitty Cantblock
I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.


I think your math is off. I just emptied my system of Veld (9hrs) and ended up with about 60mil trit which is currently going for a bit over 171mil isk.




Sounds to me like youve used a few hulk toons...and you weren't fully afk. The effort that you probably used wouldn't of been worth the 171 mil after 9 hrs of eye bleeding mining.

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:17:00 - [64]
 

People whine and complain about botting but they don't know what they are in for if CCP actually rids the game of it.

Wait and see how loud the cries get when ships and modules triple or quadruple in price.

It. Will. Be. Epic.

Bellac
Posted - 2011.04.03 10:26:00 - [65]
 

Mining needs an overhaul - simple as that.

Botting problems are going nowhere fast because mining is soo mind numbingly boring. People who mine alot (for what ever reason) at some point will use some sort of AFK feature to enable them to mine better while they are in the lavvy or making a brew simply because mining for long peroids is like pouring hot sand in your eyes.

Make mining more engaging. Make it more difficult to automate. Balance the fact that people will ahve to sit at their puters to mine by having better tech to improve mining and hauling rates. And most importantly give any new ideas time to work.

While any new methods of mining are introduced there is bound to be spikes in mineral prices which will affect everything, but the Devs are in a position to seed minerals to keep the prices stable while things even themselves out - anyone with long memories will remember that this used to happen in the distant past so there is precident.

Either way - the worst possible thing that can happen in the world of mining is to do nothing

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.04.03 10:52:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Wait and see how loud the cries get when ships and modules triple or quadruple in price.

It. Will. Be. Epic.


There will be no epic wailing and gnashing of teeth. There are already humans who actively mine because they like mining as an accompaniment to their recreational drug of choice (eg: alcohol). There are already humans who semi-AFK mine due to the income they get being better than nothing.

As the value of the ore goes up, more hulk fleets will be dusted off.

There will be ample opportunity for arbitrage traders to profit from the market between bots being banned en masse (which is not going to happen, CCP Sreegs told us so) and the market stabilising once new sources of ores/minerals become active.

The price of minerals and ice will rise to a maximum of about 2x previous market stable value (as witnessed by ice prices during Hulkageddon), then return close to current levels as the market stabilizes and the previously dusted-off hulk fleets are returned to mothballs.

Dazram Two
Posted - 2011.04.03 10:56:00 - [67]
 

I've pretty much abaondoned mining as a profession.

It's gotten to a point where CCP could remove it from the game and nothing would change. Sad really.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.03 13:35:00 - [68]
 

if you have to have multiple accounts to make a profession worth the time, then something be ****ed up with that profession. Needs fixing.

Confirming that I mined solo for a while in a hulk, the income was pathetic.

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.03 18:05:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
The price of minerals and ice will rise to a maximum of about 2x previous market stable value (as witnessed by ice prices during Hulkageddon), then return close to current levels as the market stabilizes and the previously dusted-off hulk fleets are returned to mothballs.


The number of Hulks killed during Hulkageddon is a tiny fraction of the number of Hulks actively operating in the game and the prices rebound quickly because it's rarely bots that are getting killed.

Frozen Anya
Posted - 2011.04.03 18:34:00 - [70]
 

Why not take away the greatest advantage bots have.... Automation.

Make it just like PI. You go and drop some assets on roids and come back hours days or weeks later to haul. The skills would boost the extraction rates, allow more mining drones or whatever to be deployed at one time.

This makes every player capable of what bots can do and takes their current unfair advantage away. We all still have minerals and ships become even cheaper. Miners can go do other things and we have more people in incursions, pve and pvp.

In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.

Frozen Anya
Posted - 2011.04.03 18:38:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Frozen Anya on 03/04/2011 18:39:10
Sorry double post

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.03 18:48:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Frozen Anya

In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.


you're underestimating the portion of the eve playerbase that actually enjoys mining. They exist. I do not understand, but more power to them.

I'm more for the idea of making mining like a minigame or somehow more in-depth than point laser, click, and wait, but for some reason a lot of people are against that (probably mostly because then they'd actually have to play the game..)

Awesome Possum
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2011.04.03 18:52:00 - [73]
 

Quote:
The Mining profession. It's a waste of time.


stop mining

/end thread

Frozen Anya
Posted - 2011.04.03 18:57:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Frozen Anya

In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.


you're underestimating the portion of the eve playerbase that actually enjoys mining. They exist. I do not understand, but more power to them.

I'm more for the idea of making mining like a minigame or somehow more in-depth than point laser, click, and wait, but for some reason a lot of people are against that (probably mostly because then they'd actually have to play the game..)


You're right, I've had times I really enjoyed mining for sure. But I just don't see how many people looked at eve before playing and said, "I wanna be a miner!". They probabally started because they wanted ISK to build an industrial empire or fight or just buy pretty ships.

I'm just of the belief that if it becomes a mini game, it will be botted. Bots can read captchas, they will definitely be able to complete mini games that are easy enough for new EvE pilots. This being my belief, you still give the botters the advantage of time and resistance to boredom. My plan eliminates that advantage by removing it entirely. Sure you have to fly out and "fuel" your miners / collect your ore. But that sorta thing isn't a huge advantage for botters (even though they are capable) because you are limited to how much you can mine in the first place (in my vision of automated PI style miners).

This is a low hanging fruit strategy.. There is no easy way to truly rid eve of bots, so just take their advantages away and level the playing field..

Awesome Possum
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2011.04.03 19:13:00 - [75]
 

Yes, mining is really fun and exciting when done in a fleet and everyone's drunk.


Miner #1: WHOO just took another shot, hot damn!
Miner #2: OMFG Guys! I just accidentally mined some scordite!
All: HAHAHAHAHAHA WTF
Miner #1: You nub! Oh snap, rats! KILL THE RATS!


where do i sign up?

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.04.03 19:19:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 03/04/2011 19:40:25
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Frozen Anya

In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.


you're underestimating the portion of the eve playerbase that actually enjoys mining. They exist. I do not understand, but more power to them.

I'm more for the idea of making mining like a minigame or somehow more in-depth than point laser, click, and wait, but for some reason a lot of people are against that (probably mostly because then they'd actually have to play the game..)


That is exactly it. They don't want the gameplay style they have grown to like to be nerfed out of existance and CCP shouldn't do that. Also a minigame that just increases yealds would propably just buff bots, since they are more likely than regular players to not get bored or tired of it and would propably end up being more efficient at it in the long run. On the other hand the minigame would have to be extrememly fun for the players to play or they wouldn't bother with it on a regular basis and fun minigames isn't something CCP does well. In such a system the bots could easily end up mining even a bigger part of all the ore than in the current system and end up making things worse for active miners in the process.

What mining needs is just new activities that reward active miners and are AFK unfriendlier. This way you can still AFK and gain some semi passive income while you do other things, but active miners can have a deeper system to play with, that also provides resources not available through normal mining. What exactly that activity should be or what extra resources they should get is somewhat irrelevant, but scannable comets with a mix of minerals/ice products/compounds/limited amounts of moon minerals are one possibility. Ofcourse you would get a better mix of those resources from comets that are found in more dangerous space, since that is how comets work.

EDIT: One more thing that I forgot. Make that new activity take less time and the loot should the somewhat reasonable in size to facilitate ninja mining. When you are forced to sit through several minute cycles and the targets take a huge amount of time to deplete, it is no wonder it is done by people who are semi AFK.

The whole thing should be completable within 15 to 30 minutes and the loot from one site should fit into one ship not specialized or fully fitted for hauling. Meaning you could do the activity with ships and fits, that might actually survive there and not be tied to a single spot for extended periods of time. This way the miner wouldn't be so vulnerable to outside interferance in dangerous space either and that might encourage some more ninja mining outside highsec. Basicly he just goes in, keeps an eye out for hostiles in the scanner and local for 15 to 30 mins and then he is heading out/to gatecamps with his precious loot.

T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2011.04.03 19:47:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
Sounds to me like youve used a few hulk toons...and you weren't fully afk. The effort that you probably used wouldn't of been worth the 171 mil after 9 hrs of eye bleeding mining.


LOL, my math is also off. I've mined with 2 hulks for so long I don't even think about it anymore. For me its not the isk anyway, its the quantity, eating everything in a system or having a few bil trit in the hanger makes me hard.


Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.03 20:08:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Maverick2011 on 03/04/2011 20:10:47
How many Destroyers or Frigates (T1) would be necessary to gank an average hulk?


There could be Corps to check afk miners. Like Police Mining Department. The corp would be made of frigates and other cheap ships roaming all game space for afk miners.

How to identify an AFK miner? Ask a simple question. No answer in 5 minutes, boom.

T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2011.04.04 05:09:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Maverick2011
How many Destroyers or Frigates (T1) would be necessary to gank an average hulk?


1

Originally by: Maverick2011
There could be Corps to check afk miners. Like Police Mining Department. The corp would be made of frigates and other cheap ships roaming all game space for afk miners.


No

Originally by: Maverick2011
How to identify an AFK miner?


You cant

Originally by: Maverick2011
Ask a simple question. No answer in 5 minutes, boom.


Mummy told me never to talk to strangers, especially strangers with guns, lollies are ok.


Elanor Vega
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:08:00 - [80]
 

The Mining profession. It's a waste of time.

well i must agree on that... but many ppl are stuck in it with many chars... :/

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.04.05 02:38:00 - [81]
 

I don't think leaving boring, mindless gameplay in the game because some minority of people enjoy it is a good game design decision. CCP should strive to make all aspects of the game fun and interactive.

Sharon Anne
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.05 05:50:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Sharon Anne on 05/04/2011 05:50:31
Add a new mineral only to a new small low-sec roid that all Capital ships need for their jump engines to increase the jump by #%

Then sit back and watch the fun. popcorn ?Surprised

Celestis VanBuuren
Posted - 2011.04.05 13:07:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
People whine and complain about botting but they don't know what they are in for if CCP actually rids the game of it.

Wait and see how loud the cries get when ships and modules triple or quadruple in price.

It. Will. Be. Epic.


I'd rather pay 3-4 times the price of ships/modules if it means we have a market that is supplied by people actually playing the game, not macros.

Beki 250
Posted - 2011.04.05 14:08:00 - [84]
 

Mining isn't very profitable if you don't know what you are doing. After two years of watching other miners, I estimate that 75% fall into this category.

I have no problem affording the the things that I need, or even want, and it's only been a year since I lost a corp to an infiltrator.

Leocadminone
Posted - 2011.04.05 14:11:00 - [85]
 

The biggest reason mineral pricing has dropped into the sink over the last year was the "Insurance revamp" removing the price support floor under mineral pricing (as a basket, I realise that Noc has gone UP in that time).

This was PREDICTED by a lot of us before that revamp went live, though I concede I expected mineral pricing to drop somewhat more than it did and a bit faster.


Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.05 14:35:00 - [86]
 

This is something everyone thinks and it has to be said: Mining is for the mindless idiots who are either too unintelligent or lazy to sink into the more complex aspects of the game. Fact.

The whole game mechanic suits botting perfectly well and it's a mystery to me nobody has realised that until now.

Nevermind PVP; All miners avoid the PVP aspects of EVE as much as possible, being the disgusting carebears that they are.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.04.05 15:13:00 - [87]
 

Lets see: I graduated from CalTech, I work as an aeronautical engineer, and I helped design and fly this.

But as I like mining, I must be a mindless idiot.

Why do I like mining? It lets me do other stuff while I watch the ISK roll in. Watch TV, talk to the wife, read, chat, etc.

That said, its rare that I mine for more than an hour or three. But with 2 hulks and an orca, and a manufacturing op running off the minerals, I make 20 to 30 mil an hour, so even short sessions are profitable.

Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
Posted - 2011.04.05 15:50:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
This is something everyone thinks and it has to be said: Mining is for the mindless idiots who are either too unintelligent or lazy to sink into the more complex aspects of the game. Fact.

The whole game mechanic suits botting perfectly well and it's a mystery to me nobody has realised that until now.

Nevermind PVP; All miners avoid the PVP aspects of EVE as much as possible, being the disgusting carebears that they are.


I wholeheartedly agree, my fair lady. Let us embark on an epic quest to destroy any and all miners in all of outer space, so that their bots cease to contaminate our pure imperium and disturb the God Emperor!

SECURITY STATUS IS BUT A TRIVIAL DETAIL!

Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.05 17:24:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Sixtina KL
SECURITY STATUS IS BUT A TRIVIAL DETAIL!


Laughing

I'll put your suggestion on my todo list.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.05 19:55:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/04/2011 19:55:41
1: There is nothing wrong with making mining more enjoyable.

2: There is nothing wrong with leaving some aspects of mining as they are now, for the more casual players.

3: More people will not mine, even if it becomes more entertaining, because the isk/hour/effort ratio is so low compared to other professions.

4: The only way to make the isk/hour/effort ratio better (and make mining more attractive as a source of income) is to reduce the number of botting fleets currently flooding the market with cheap minerals.

5: Botting fleets of all types are a massive and widespread problem, this is easily verifiable by checking on any botting forum or by knowing what to look for as you fly through virtually any system in EVE.

6: Mining bots actually cause less economic carnage than other types of bots.

7: Bots of all types don't care if the money making activity they are doing is entertaining or not. They only care about how much isk they can make for the owner. Because they are tireless and require no effort from the operator, they do not care about the isk/hour/effort ratio that governs the rest of the EVE economy.


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