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Celestis VanBuuren
Posted - 2011.03.28 10:55:00 - [1]
 

Ok. Im making this post because i'd like to hear some constructive feedback about your opinion on mining. I know that 3/4 of the replies will be from ******s calling me a carebear etc...since most people on here do nothing but troll and post useless ****. And yes, im posting from a noob alt.

With the price of megacyte, zydrine and morphite as low as it is, mining in 0.0 just doesnt seem viable anymore unless you have multiple hulk pilots. Why cant CCP crack down on the botters in empire and the drone lands to help bring the prices back up to a natural level...or change the mineral requirement for capitals?

Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.

/end rant

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.28 10:58:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2011 11:31:07


Depends what you mean by "viable".

A maxed-out-everything mining op supported by Orca or deployed Rorqual can still yield almost 60 mil ISK per Hulk pilot (if you can find plenty of Ark, that is, if you're only going to go for Crok, then under 40 mil), then take out the cut of the booster, hauler, refinery and whatnot other taxes, tarrifs or interruptions, and you're still about on par with ratting, running anoms or whatnot other activities are there... you know, ballpark wise anyway.
Plus, mining scales pretty well across multiple accounts, while the rest, not so much.

P.S. But yeah, you have a point, there's something out of whack there. However, I think the solution is to tweak what ores refine into rather than change ship build requirements.

Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:03:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19


Carebear.


Also reported for evading the profanity filter.


Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren

Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.


Neamus
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:24:00 - [4]
 

Botting is bad m'kay, but honestly this has been discussed to death already. CCP are already well aware that we want it stopped, lets just give them a bit of space and see what they come up with. Apparently they recently hired a couple of security specialists just for this purpose, so no doubt they're working hard to impress their new overlords (us, indirectly...).

BlackSparrowHawk
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:43:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Londo Cebb
Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19


Carebear.


Also reported for evading the profanity filter.


Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren

Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.




OP could have meant afking and just missed out the a. I use that term all the time.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:48:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: BlackSparrowHawk
OP could have meant afking and just missed out the a. I use that term all the time.

No, there's just one SPACE too many Twisted Evil

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:03:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 28/03/2011 13:03:04
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2011 11:31:07


Depends what you mean by "viable".

A maxed-out-everything mining op supported by Orca or deployed Rorqual can still yield almost 60 mil ISK per Hulk pilot (if you can find plenty of Ark, that is, if you're only going to go for Crok, then under 40 mil), then take out the cut of the booster, hauler, refinery and whatnot other taxes, tarrifs or interruptions, and you're still about on par with ratting, running anoms or whatnot other activities are there... you know, ballpark wise anyway.
Plus, mining scales pretty well across multiple accounts, while the rest, not so much.

P.S. But yeah, you have a point, there's something out of whack there. However, I think the solution is to tweak what ores refine into rather than change ship build requirements.



mining ops in empire aren't really that profitable either. They do excellent gatherings for new and old people alike tho, so it's good for socialization.

Kacer Xenro
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:10:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kacer Xenro on 28/03/2011 13:10:29
-derp, ignore-

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:17:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 28/03/2011 13:17:50
People still mine? Honestly?

Isn't it still slightly more profitable isk/h wise to buy the mins you need instead of mining? And use that time running missions or market trading.

Only reason I can see for mining is if your mining ABC ore in 0.0 or its a logistical issue. Granted I haven't been following Indy for quite some time now. Do people still do compression for low ends(and i dont mean with a rorq)?

Alty McExpendable
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:22:00 - [10]
 

I really wish I could get a refund for the SP I invested in training a Hulk pilot. Mining is worthless and under the current system will continue to be worthless.

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:26:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
People still mine? Honestly?

Yeah, bots.
Then they wonder why prices are so flat.
There is really only one way left to make isk in this game, ...scam ;)
But meh to high volume isk making imo.

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:27:00 - [12]
 

mining is a profession for alts (i'm not going to mention bots...) anymore since it can be done while really playing on your main. its good for added income if you can afford the extra accounts, or can make enough to pay via plex (i.e. can afford the time). if you dont have the time or the money... then dont do mining. missions, ratting, production... everything else int he game is a better isk earner.

further, IMO mining should be a low yield activity since it takes no understanding, skill or even attention to do it.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:30:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 28/03/2011 13:30:01
Originally by: Omega Sunset
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
People still mine? Honestly?

Yeah, bots.
Then they wonder why prices are so flat.
There is really only one way left to make isk in this game, ...scam ;)
But meh to high volume isk making imo.


Scamming is to hit or miss. Also after awile you need to cycle alts due to people catching on. Not the best consistent way of making isk imo.

Really the best way is through market trading granted you have the initial isk to invest and the will to search the market abit. You do have to compete some with the 0.01 isk "bots" but its not that bad.

Dani Nardieu
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:33:00 - [14]
 

It's pretty much my impression that CCP intentionally tried to destroy the mining profession with the introduction of the drone regions because the macroing problem seemed unsalvageable with their resources at the time.
Combat characters simply have no business producing more minerals than miners do that's like putting damage modifiers on strip miners (hey, why the hell not ? Evil or Very Mad)

Which of course created an even greater rating bot problem Neutral.

Dr Larry Goldstein
Charybdis Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:35:00 - [15]
 

I wish CCP could refund me the skills I spent on Exhumers V. This stuff is absolutely absurd. No profit is ever made.

I still haven't even paid off my Hulk. I don't see it a boring profession as often I read. No, I'm not a carebear at all, I wanted the ultimate passive income while I read caselaw.

Now while I get some profit... the 2 months of training give or take has been an absolute waste because of the botting.

Destroy more AFK miners.

Celestis VanBuuren
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:36:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Londo Cebb
Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19


Carebear.


Also reported for evading the profanity filter.


Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren

Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.




^^ Sigh...this is exactly the kind of person that shouldnt even be on the forums. All they do is post useless replies that are off topic. Thanks to the rest of you though. Its given me some good insight into the feelings of my fellow capsuleers.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:42:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2011 11:31:07


Depends what you mean by "viable".

A maxed-out-everything mining op supported by Orca or deployed Rorqual can still yield almost 60 mil ISK per Hulk pilot (if you can find plenty of Ark, that is, if you're only going to go for Crok, then under 40 mil), then take out the cut of the booster, hauler, refinery and whatnot other taxes, tarrifs or interruptions, and you're still about on par with ratting, running anoms or whatnot other activities are there... you know, ballpark wise anyway.
Plus, mining scales pretty well across multiple accounts, while the rest, not so much.

P.S. But yeah, you have a point, there's something out of whack there. However, I think the solution is to tweak what ores refine into rather than change ship build requirements.


I make 270 mil per hour running nullsec missions in an unscannable ship, solo, where there is actually a smaller chance of being ganked then in high sec.

And professional wormhole clowns make several times more then me.

So no, I would say mining is NOT viable unless you are attempting to roleplay a character living in constant poverty.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:54:00 - [18]
 

Some would say that mining rocks and can be an ice way to pass the time.


Dr Larry Goldstein
Charybdis Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:00:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Some would say that mining rocks and can be an ice way to pass the time.


Especially if you love reading and have multiple monitors. It's terrible income though as stated due to the excessive botting in Empire.

Burnharder
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:09:00 - [20]
 

I wouldn't say it was unprofitable, but it's certainly not profitable in relative terms (relative to almost everything else you can do in Eve). I've currently got 200m of trit, 100m of Pye, 130m of Nocx, 80m of Isogen, 65m of Mexallon and under 10k of Zyd in my hanger (a little zyd from mining high sec anoms). So you know, I've made over half a bill from 9 or 10 mining sessions, around 3 - 4 hours each time, with 3 characters (2 x Hulk and 1 Orca). Of course it bores me to death, which is why I have one eye on the op and the other on Liz Hurley upskirt photos ugh.

The problems with mineral supply are obvious:

(1) You can reprocess loot into minerals
(2) Drone region ratting
(3) Mining bots


Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:20:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 14:33:57




Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren

^^ Sigh...this is exactly the kind of person that shouldn't even be on the forums. All they do is post useless replies that are off topic. Thanks to the rest of you though. Its given me some good insight into the feelings of my fellow capsuleers.


You're absolutely right I should not be allowed on the forums, but since CCP has allowed me to keep posting I will give a serious response to your thinly veiled "I want more ISK whine thread"

Bots are a serious issue, but they are not the only problem with the mining profession. The entire mechanic needs to be re-thought from the ground up. I have seen many suggestions for doing this and I do not claim know the right one. Some have mentioned hiding all belts, so probing would be required to find them.

My ideal solution would be one that requires skill points, AND player skill to get significantly higher mining yields. Something like the current PI mechanic perhaps, where you had to target specific parts of a asteroid to get any results, or some other ACTIVE player involvement, other than target, activate laser, get ore. Maybe add tracking to mining lasers and make roids move.

I really don't claim to have the answer, but something along those lines would not only make botting much more difficult, but also add some entertainment value to the act of mining itself, and provide much more income to those who spent the time training and put work in to get good at their craft. (I am sure many of you would hate this type of idea as you can no longer mine and look at "Liz Hurley upskirt photos" but then again not paying attention to what you're doing should not be rewarded in my opinion.)

Of course this does not take care of other sources of minerals, but perhaps if balanced across the board very carefully.......never mind (I love you CCPVery Happy)

Just the opinion of a useless troll.

[Edit] They're/their/there


QU0RRA
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:36:00 - [22]
 

I would like to add my views on the matter.

The MAIN problem with mining as being a "horrible profession" is down to 1 problem, bots. Bots lower the price of minerals via the drone regions and due to empire bots selling low to get "quick" ISK.

The problem could be solved with 2 actions;

1, Nuke ALL bots, I have seen some folks rage against RMT bots but say that it is ok for "little bobby" to run a bot to make ISK to fund his eve career (either PvP or Empirebearpirate). BOTH are a bane, all the "little Bobbies" out there sell low to get the quick ISK. They don't care, they didn't work for the minerals.

2. Change the drops from Drones, nuke it like they did for LvL4 missions. A change would effect the minerals market "Big time".

Changing these 2 things would fundamentally change the minerals market forever. Of course this brings in the change that more profit brings in more players which lowers price which makes some miners leave which rises the price but thats a different story Wink

BTW, not everyone AFK mines. In particular multiboxers whom have those accounts to manage. I have never seen any multiboxers run cargoexpanding hulks AFK. The majority run in Hulk gangs with Orca support, hulks which are fitted for either max yeild (or max tank during Hulkageddon). Any that do, well we have Helicity to sort those out. Twisted Evil These multiboxers, love them or loathe them bring in extra revenue to CCP WITHIN the TOS and EULA, well those multis who do it all manually and not via synergy etc.

So hopefully CCP will take these into account when dealing with mining. Captcha, Recaptcha, mining minigames etc will affect these legal accounts. Or if CCP bring about one of these that they allow people to respec their other accounts or these become inactive, lowering revenue etc. Whatever, its all speculation from here.

Two things I would like to see CCP bring in would be to bring in scannable asteroid belts, wether they replace "normal" belts or are secondary is fine by me but I would be more in favour to have them scannable to hinder bots. Another one is to bring in the comets as a source of ice but that sort of steps on the toes of the scannable belts system which could include icebelts.

Well thats enough of my ramblings but I wanted to get this out there since I seen that CCP does read the threads and takes views into account. Especially threads that Akita T posts in. Laughing

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:18:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Bane Necran on 28/03/2011 15:21:34
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Some would say that mining rocks and can be an ice way to pass the time.




I do it now and then just to relax, not really for isk. I often liken it to fishing. One time someone kept stealing from my can and i just kept mining. They probably thought i was a bot.

Would be nice if they did something to increase the value of minerals, getting rid of bots is always a good idea, but it's not desperately needed. It's still good isk for new pilots compared to their alternatives.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:21:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: QU0RRA


2. Change the drops from Drones, nuke it like they did for LvL4 missions. A change would effect the minerals market "Big time".




They already nuked drones at the same time as they did lvl4 missions, people just got more bots.

Seul Manus
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:45:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Seul Manus on 28/03/2011 15:45:06
Without miners, everything in Eve would come to a stop.

Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:49:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Seul Manus
Edited by: Seul Manus on 28/03/2011 15:45:06
Without miners bots, everything in Eve would come to a stop.


FYP

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:51:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Londo Cebb
Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19


Carebear.


Also reported for evading the profanity filter.


Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren

Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.




GOSH DARN IT. ok report me bish.

Mella Elcus
Posted - 2011.03.28 16:15:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Londo Cebb
Also reported for evading the profanity filter.
Thanks for keeping those immoral swear words of the forums. See you in church on Sunday.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.03.28 16:25:00 - [29]
 

I mine in high sec. If I just use one account and sold the minerals I'd get around 6 mil an hour. But I use the minerals to make stuff I sell with about a 50% markup, so 9 mil an hour. But I rarely use just one account. Add an orca and (after manufacturing and selling) the profit goes to 15 mil an hour. That can be done with low attention, while watching TV, reading, trolling forums, etc.

Add the third account, a second Hulk, and I go to 30 million an hour. That usually increases the effort to the point that its hard to do alot of reading. TV watching still works. 30 mil an hour is hardly poverty. An hour a day or a little more pays for PLEXs for all accounts.

If the present CCP anti-bot effort works, we should see mineral prices rise, along with all stuff made from minerals. But we should also see PLEX prices drop as the botters stop supporting multiple accounts with their bot income. The result: hours of mining needed to buy a PLEX will go down.

Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.03.28 16:33:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Joe Skellington


GOSH DARN IT. ok report me bish.


Done. Laughing

Originally by: Mella Elcus
Thanks for keeping those immoral swear words of the forums. See you in church on Sunday.


You are very welcome, but I am Jewish.


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