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Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.13 16:17:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
I’m sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.


Did you know that Iceland has a Phallus museum? Yeah.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.13 16:37:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Windjammer
I’m sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.



Oh no, man on holiday consumes alcoholic drink, quick call the internet police!
Oh no, sarcasm from a goon in which an “8 day bender” becomes possibly one drink. It’s so unexpected. Whatever shall I do?



Congratulations on completely missing the point. What business of yours is it if anyone got drunk at Fanfest? Are you suggesting that internet spaceship players should be statesmanlike in all areas of their life both before and after their election to the CSM? What about if a CSM member cheats on their wife? Should they be impeached?

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.13 19:09:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Yeep

Congratulations on completely missing the point. What business of yours is it if anyone got drunk at Fanfest? Are you suggesting that internet spaceship players should be statesmanlike in all areas of their life both before and after their election to the CSM? What about if a CSM member cheats on their wife? Should they be impeached?


Windy's next Angry Internet Letter Writing Campaign will be to let TenTonHammer know that they must fire Mittens because he was drinking at an important internet spaceships political forum.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.14 06:20:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Vile rat
Did you know that Iceland has a Phallus museum? Yeah.
I did not know that. Were you able to learn anything there?

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.14 06:30:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Congratulations on completely missing the point. What business of yours is it if anyone got drunk at Fanfest? Are you suggesting that internet spaceship players should be statesmanlike in all areas of their life both before and after their election to the CSM? What about if a CSM member cheats on their wife? Should they be impeached?
Congratulations upon entirely missing the point. The question under consideration was whether people act the same way in real life as they do in the game. I submit that at least some of them do and used examples to illustrate.

If a CSM member wants to drink themselves silly and act like a clown every day of their life, I could care less. There’ll be at least one person in the room that thinks they’re funny. If they want to, as you suggest, cheat on their wife, let them. Maybe the wife will catch them and get a nice settlement out of it as well as get rid of the loser.

How did you work any of that into the possibility of an impeachment? I know you were trying to be absurd, but you could have put more effort into it. Come on.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.14 06:32:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Windy's next Angry Internet Letter Writing Campaign will be to let TenTonHammer know that they must fire Mittens because he was drinking at an important internet spaceships political forum.
Good, duck.Smile You never disappoint and you never understand.

-Windjammer

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.14 06:38:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 14/04/2011 06:44:18
Babelfish not working for you again, eh?
Too bad.

Gotten a response from TenTonHammer yet?

Edit: not that your sperging over the fact that someone was ~gasp!~ drinking while on vacation isn't amusing in and of itself. I'm just trying to predict what your next Angry Letter campaign will be about.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.14 09:29:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Yeep on 14/04/2011 09:28:53
Originally by: Windjammer
I’m sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.



Let me quote this again as you seem to forget what you said the moment you're done spraying the contents of your digestive tract over these forums. Ignoring the fact that none of the current CSM were elected until the end of fanfest. And the fact that you probably didn't vote for him so he's not *your* representative. And the fact that CCP advertises "drinking with devs" as one of the draws of fanfest.

Do you honestly believe that internet spaceship politicians should lead puritanical personal lives? Because thats a laughable stance to take for real life politicians who have real life consequences for their actions. Perhaps we should mandate that the next CSM may only consume tea and biscuits when they socialise with developers.

Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.14 10:11:00 - [69]
 

It's nice to see that Windy's obsession with the NC and Goons has finally driven him to complete insanity.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.14 19:41:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Misconstruing Windjammers statement.
Let me post this again as you’ve neglected to read and comprehend. You’re attributing a position to me that I do not advocate. I’ll underline the pertinent part for your ease in reading. Enjoy.

Originally by: Windjammer
Congratulations upon entirely missing the point. The question under consideration was whether people act the same way in real life as they do in the game. I submit that at least some of them do and used examples to illustrate.

If a CSM member wants to drink themselves silly and act like a clown every day of their life, I could care less. There’ll be at least one person in the room that thinks they’re funny. If they want to, as you suggest, cheat on their wife, let them. Maybe the wife will catch them and get a nice settlement out of it as well as get rid of the loser.

How did you work any of that into the possibility of an impeachment? I know you were trying to be absurd, but you could have put more effort into it. Come on.
Let me know if you require further clarification or simpler words. Here’s a little hint; it doesn’t’ really matter if the person is a member of the CSM, running for the CSM or just someone having nothing to do with the CSM.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.14 19:43:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Aryndel Samson
Hey windjammer- Why do you sign your posts? We can look to the left and see what user produced the text vomit just fine you goddamn mongoloid.
Does it bother you?

-Windjammer

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.14 20:02:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Let me know if you require further clarification or simpler words. Here’s a little hint; it doesn’t’ really matter if the person is a member of the CSM, running for the CSM or just someone having nothing to do with the CSM.



So why are you posting about it in a CSM thread in the CSM forum of the popular internet spaceship game Eve online?

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.14 20:35:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Windjammer
Let me know if you require further clarification or simpler words. Here’s a little hint; it doesn’t’ really matter if the person is a member of the CSM, running for the CSM or just someone having nothing to do with the CSM.



So why are you posting about it in a CSM thread in the CSM forum of the popular internet spaceship game Eve online?
Because someone alleged that people act one way in the game and another way in real life. This allegation was made to support the idea that people who act like griefers, scum……….whatever, inside EVE are in fact really nice upstanding people outside of EVE. I responded to the allegation with the post you’ve been determined to see as an attack when in fact I was merely pointing out that sometimes what you see in game is what you see in real life as far as behaviour.

Believe me, when I attack, if I attack, you’ll know it. And, no, that isn’t a threat.

-Windjammer

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.14 20:41:00 - [74]
 

So what part of consenting adults taking part in leisure activities enjoyed by millions of other consenting adults across the world makes these people scum?

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.15 00:15:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Yeep
So what part of consenting adults taking part in leisure activities enjoyed by millions of other consenting adults across the world makes these people scum?
Yeah. Cast me as a teetotaling prude. Laughing That’ll play.

What makes you think I think they’re scum? If a guy plays scum in the game, there’s a chance he’s scum in real life. If he likes to grief in the game, there’s a fair chance he likes to grief in real life. If a guy comes off as a drunken clown in the game, there’s better than a fair chance he’s a drunken clown in real life situations. If he’s a whiner in the game, there’s a real good chance he’s a whiner in real life.

This sequence can be extended ad finem, but I’m pretty sure you can see the trend.

-Windjammer

White Tree
Gallente
Broski Federation
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.04.15 01:04:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: White Tree on 15/04/2011 01:04:59
Originally by: Windjammer
If a guy plays scum in the game, there’s a chance he’s scum in real life. If he likes to grief in the game, there’s a fair chance he likes to grief in real life. If a guy comes off as a drunken clown in the game, there’s better than a fair chance he’s a drunken clown in real life situations. If he’s a whiner in the game, there’s a real good chance he’s a whiner in real life.



No. No. This is not how the Internet and videogames work at all, do not do this.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.15 01:10:00 - [77]
 

So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
Learn something new every day.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.15 01:32:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: White Tree
Edited by: White Tree on 15/04/2011 01:04:59
Originally by: Windjammer
If a guy plays scum in the game, there’s a chance he’s scum in real life. If he likes to grief in the game, there’s a fair chance he likes to grief in real life. If a guy comes off as a drunken clown in the game, there’s better than a fair chance he’s a drunken clown in real life situations. If he’s a whiner in the game, there’s a real good chance he’s a whiner in real life.



No. No. This is not how the Internet and videogames work at all, do not do this.
Do not do what?

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.15 01:46:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero*snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
I believe this is a sighting of the all too common reductio ad ridiculum.Very Happy

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.15 01:50:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Windjammer on 15/04/2011 01:50:39
erasure of a double post

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.15 06:36:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
I believe this is a sighting of the all too common reductio ad ridiculum.


Actually, it's proof of the fact that you have no idea what a logical fallacy is. Don't worry, as I'm not a troll, I can actually point out your errors. Also as I'm not a troll, I can actually point out your own words and why they're wrong.
Food for thought.

Anyways, the Appeal to Ridicule attempts to substitute mockery for an actual argument. This, however, is not what actually happened. What I did was used an argument of analogy to point out that the same hysteria you're trying to use in your personal grudge against certain CSM members is based on the the same logical fallacies that the loons who demonized Dungeons and Dragons used. Namely, that "If a guy plays scum in the game, there’s a chance he’s scum in real life." Or as the anti Dungeons and Dragons cruasaders put it, "people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists."

Your argument about how we have to mistrust people who play as badguys in an internet spaceship game because they might just be a badguy in real life? Well, that uses the same logical fallacy as the assumption that someone who plays an evil mage in D&D might just be a Satanist.

It is, essentially, a variation on the quoting out of context fallacy, where you attempt to strip away the fact that someone is playing a character in an MMO, and using that character to form conclusions about the person. Much like someone accusing the actor who plays MacBeth of murder.
It is also an (actual) example of circular reasoning whereby your conclusion, that people's actions in game may tell us something about who they are out of game, is used as your premise, which is that people's actions in game can predict how they may act out of game.
It is also an example of ****hoc ergo proper hoc, where you've attempted to create a fallacious causal or predictive relationship between behavior in-game and behavior out of game simply because they both occur in the same person.
It's also an example of the fallacy of bifurcationwhereby someone who is a "badguy" in game may just be a "badguy" in real life, rather than there being an entire continum of behaviors and views about those behaviors, both in-game and out and even if they were all agreed upon, someone being "scum" in game would not mean that they had to either be "scum" or "virtuous" out of game, but that the whole range of human behavior could be possible until we knew something about them as a person and not just as a gamer.
It is also an example of confirmation bias, whereby those who are "badguys" in EVE and also are "badguys" out of EVE go to prove your claims, but all those who who merrily grief in game and are good people in real life are conveniently ignored.
And that's just a few. There is, literally, nothing any more cogent or coherent about claiming that people's actions in an MMO game like EVE are predictive of their personal lives than about claiming that someone who plays a doctor on television can really perform surgery.


None of that, of course, gets at the utter hilarity of your rage over the fact that an adult, on vacation, while his vacation was taking place prior to his even officially being placed on the important-internet-spaceship-focus-group, drank.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.15 18:04:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
I believe this is a sighting of the all too common reductio ad ridiculum.
Typical over long discourse in which I once again display my ability to write terms I have little to no understanding of.
By using a weak analogy, aka faulty analogy, aka questionable analogy, zero introduces mockery into his statement and that is reductio ad ridiculum (reduction to the absurd), an appeal to mockery.

The attempt on zero’s part to discredit my analogies hinges upon him following the sequence I laid out to his absurd conclusion. Additionally, he characterizes my statements of probability as statements of certainty. I say, “If he likes to grief in the game, there’s a fair chance he likes to grief in real life.” Zero rewrites this to, “If he likes to grief in game, he must grief in real life.” Then zero argues against his rewrite. This is the essence of the logical fallacy known as the Straw Man argument. It’s a shabby way to lie, but zero has convinced himself that it deceives readers. In itself, a measure of his intellect as well as a measure of his inability to see just how many are his intellectual superiors.

We’ve all run into the guys who love to grief in game and we’ve seen how a fair number of them love to grief in real life. Zero would extend this simple observation to the absurdity of believing those who play D and D must therefore be Satanists. Since this is obviously untrue, zero then circles back around to say that if the one is untrue, the other is untrue. In other words, zero would have you believe that, for instance, a guy who loves griefing in EVE is not someone who loves griefing in real life, ever.

This is why it is unwise to argue philosophy with someone like zero. Their argument is obviously absurd, they stubbornly refuse to admit it, argue for the sheer sake of arguing, attempt to use terms they do not understand and then argue about the interpretation of those terms when challenged by people who do understand them.

Zero depends upon bulk without quality. Both in his writing and in his game play. It’s blob writing and while the blob tactic works in EVE combat, it utterly fails in writing……….or in logic.

-Windjammer

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.15 18:37:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Typical over long discourse in which I once again display my ability to write terms I have little to no understanding of.


Lying and trolling again Windy?
Why, what are the odds? It's almost like you're physically incapable of actually responding to facts and have to lie and troll about them.

Originally by: Windjammer
By using a weak analogy, aka faulty analogy, aka questionable analogy


Again, you demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what logical fallacies are. You obviously have no clue, at all, what the fallacy of false analogy is.
Here's a hint, troll: there are two situations where people who play a role in a game specifically designed for that purpose are having their in-game character used to cast aspersions about their out-of-game behavior.
No false analogy, you're just lying. As usual.

Originally by: Windjammer

I say, “If he likes to grief in the game, there’s a fair chance he likes to grief in real life.” Zero rewrites this to, “If he likes to grief in game, he must grief in real life.”



As you are a liar and a troll, that never actually happened. You've invented that quote, because you are a liar and are trolling. If you contend otherwise, cite the post and quote where I said that. But we all know you're lying, anyways. Which is why you won't provide any such quote. Contrary to your pathological lying, what I actually said was "we have to mistrust people who play as badguys in an internet spaceship game because they might just be a badguy in real life".

People who aren't lying trolls will note the "might be" in what I said.

Quote:
This is the essence of the logical fallacy known as the Straw Man argument.


Ah, so you have no idea what a strawman fallacy is, or you do and you're lying, again.
Your argument really was that people who are "scum" in game might just be "scum" in real life because of how they play the game.

Quote:

Zero would extend this simple observation to the absurdity of believing those who play D and D must therefore be Satanists.


Lying and trolling again Windy?
What did I actually say, liar?
"the same logical fallacy as the assumption that someone who plays an evil mage in D&D might just be a Satanist. "
"people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists."

People who are not liars will note the use of "potential" and "might" in my quotes and "must therefore" in your lying bit of trolling.

Quote:
zero would have you believe that, for instance, a guy who loves griefing in EVE is not someone who loves griefing in real life, ever.


No, I'd point out that you are a pathological liar and a troll, and you lie about things that are right above your post when anybody can see you're lying. What I actuallys aid was:"someone being "scum" in game would not mean that they had to either be "scum" or "virtuous" out of game, but that the whole range of human behavior could be possible until we knew something about them as a person and not just as a gamer."

Folks who are not liars will notice that the "not ever" is a lie you're using, not what I actually said.

So aside from being unable to offer a single logical rebuttal to the facts that show your arugment is awful, all you can do is lie with pretty much every single statement you make.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.15 19:29:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero, forum troll at large
More long winded pseudo intellectual gibberish in which I attempt the magical trick of changing the color blue to red before your very eyes.
Hypocrisy, thy name is zero as well as the sum total of his success.

-Windjammer

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.15 19:51:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
long winded pseudo intellectual gibberish


This is Windy's standard lie when proven wrong on the facts, he has to troll about how I don't 'understand' something rather than proving that I'm wrong.

Meanwhile, how many separate lies and errors did I just prove he was engaged in? Hell, something like two or three faked quotes alone plus a lie about his own claims coupled with a faked quote in order to allege that his own words are a "strawman" of his own words.

As always, since Windy only trolls and only lies in his responses to me, he can't show how I was wrong about anything. He can't point out any errors in my actual logic. He can't provide quotes for the things he said I did, but which contradict what my actual words were.
He can only lie.

Unsurprising.


Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.16 02:08:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero, forum troll at large
Originally by: Windjammer
long winded pseudo intellectual gibberish
Windjammer lied, trolled, didn’t prove me wrong, faked quotes, lied, trolled, lied, didn’t prove me wrong, didn’t point out my errors, didn’t provide quotes, and lied.
I think I got it all, but you correct me if I’m wrong, will you? To anyone who’s seen other posts from zero regarding people who disagree with him, that should look very familiar. Particularly the part about lying and trolling. He’s very fond of that whether he has a leg to stand on or not.


Originally by: FinnAgain Zero, from post 78 of this thread
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
Learn something new every day.
Does anyone else think this is a ridiculous assertion? In a world where anything might be possible, it remains very improbable to the point of absurdity. Satanists do exist, yes, but is it reasonable to think the guy playing one in a game is potentially a Satanist in real life? Would it be something you’d be concerned about?

By comparison, I suggest that a griefer, for example, in the game of EVE has a fair chance of being a griefer in real life. Much less of a stretch. Let’s take a case in point. Zero’s focus of hero worship is The Mittani, aka Mittens, aka Mits or Mitts (as in get your mitts off my stuff). Mitts plays a griefer in the game of EVE. He’s very good at it and seems to enjoy it a great deal. On the forums he describes himself as a sadist (his exact term) and sees nothing wrong with this. Griefer in game, griefer in real life, point proven. I should point out that I do not personally see this as necessarily being a character defect. If the rumor of him being a lawyer is true, it may even be an occupational asset.

Originally by: LordElfa
The characters that the goons and NC play in EVE are not who they are in real life and its the real life people who are going to be manning this CSM.
It was in response to this statement by LordElfa that I gave several examples of how it’s possible for someone to be in real life what they are in the game with regard to certain behavior’s. I did this because Elfa seemed to be suggesting that people who act in a certain way in the game, aren’t going to act that way out of the game.

-Windjammer

Rika Jones
Amarr
Warp Storm Industries
Posted - 2011.04.16 05:43:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
Good. I posted this elsewhere and I'll post it here as well.

Look, the fact is that while the Goons and NC may be ruthless bastards, they actually do care about and have time and money invested in EVE. They want this game to be polished and fixed because that benefits them and in turn, it benefits us.

Personally, I think they'll use this opportunity to gain some respect from the EVE playerbase for their ability to get things done and be unified while doing it. These people may be some of the most evil players in EVE, but in real life many of them are responsible and highly intelligent individuals. They play the game like *******s because thats is the game. However, what they do in the CSM is not the game, its the technical workings of the game and I think that they'll bring to the table, not the ******* characters they play, but the truly intelligent and responsible people they are in real life since that is what they'll need if they wish to get things accomplished.

You want to call me names because I support them, fine, we shall see. Don't judge a real life book by its in game cover you bunch of whiners.

Give them a chance to do what the other CSM's couldn't, which is do more than blow hot air.



...and if they do screw us all, well, that will be fun too so suck it up, this isn't WoW after all.




I'll be laughing harder than that when we discover that the real goal of getting themselves elected to the CSM was to close enough to the GM staff to make it rain *****es in Jita.

Yes, the Goonswarm: Visionairy leaders.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.16 06:03:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
To anyone who’s seen other posts from zero regarding people who disagree with him


Naturally, Windy is lying and trolling again. The clue is that he's posting about me. Naturally, I point out when people are lying and trolling when, ya know, they actually are. Those people who disagree with me without lying and trolling, don't get called on it. But of course, Windy knows that and is trolling about it. That's why, when I've proven over and over that Windy is a liar and a troll (just check the number of faked quoted he provided to troll), so his pattern is to either A) ignore the actual factual, logical refutations of his pathological lying and handwave about how they're wrong (never actually being able to show how they're wrong) of B) use the kind of an hominem fallacy he's using here.

Originally by: Windjammer

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
Learn something new every day.
Does anyone else think this is a ridiculous assertion?


Windjammer, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, recognizes that it's ridiculous to claim that someone playing an evil mage in D&D might be a satanist, but thinks it's perfectly reasonable to think that someone who plays a griefer in EVE might be "scum" in real life.
Earlier, he lied and claimed that this was a false analogy and a strawman.

Originally by: Windjammer

Zero’s focus of hero worship


Again, the test: is Windy making a claim about me? Yes. Is it on the forums? Yes.
Is he lying and trolling?
Do I even need to ask?

Of course as Windy doesn't post at me without lying and trolling, I've engaged in no hero worship. Windy, however, is obsessed with The Mittani to the point of conducting a libelous internet campaign against an internet cite that publishes his stuff, and him personally in order to get him fired. Windy is is obsessed with Mittens personally and with people being "masters" and "superiors" in an internet-spaceship game. There are several leather clubs that can cater to Windy's odd obsession, but trying to shoehorn it into EVE is more than a little bit creepy.

Of course, Windy is almost definitely lying and trolling, as is standard. Only an idiot would believe that offering factual refutations to accusations made against someone means that the person is "hero worshiping" or wants to be the "slave" to the "master" or wants to be the "inferior" to the "superior" person. Most likely, Windy is just enraged by being proven wrong, and is desperately casting about for personal insults he can possibly use.

Quote:
Griefer in game, griefer in real life, point proven.


As Windy doesn't know anything about even basic logic, this is just one of his series of already debunked fallacies. It'd be like finding one D&D player who was also a Satanist, and declaring "point proven".


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.04.16 16:17:00 - [89]
 

I really hope the new and improved new forums have an "ignore" feature.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.16 21:43:00 - [90]
 

I'd be willing to sacrifice an ignore feature if we got an intelligence test that was required before people could post. Cool


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