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blankseplocked DUST 514.........for PC?
 
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Rey Bahn
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:20:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Maybe. The thing is, though, that none of those titles are really in the same genre as Dust — if CCP can push that angle, they have a slightly better chance at doing well.


Tippia, in your post above mine I absolutely agree with pretty much everything re: what gamers are. I couldn't have said it better. You seem to have enough nous to know what it takes for a title on consoles to be a runaway AAA success so what are your realistic expectations for Dust?

It might be interesting to consider the two latest FPS titles released on consoles currently as I believe these titles might demonstrate what chances D514 will have establishing active online fanbase going forward.

Homefront - KAOS Studios - THQ. Developer has experience in using dedicated servers on consoles which is a rarity. Will be interesting to see what player retention is like in 2 months time.

Crysis 2 - Crytek - EA. Seems to play like Halo+COD but isn't currently satisfying both of those player bases online. This game will live or die based on DLC map packs for player retention in my opinion.

You know, there are many more middle grade FPS titles scheduled in as well but the other elephant in the room is AAA titles from other genres that console gamers advance there spending towards and the release window planning which is massively cut-throat these days. Genres you mentioned yourself. CCP is competing with the time and money of consumers just like every other publisher and failing to successfully answer that with a poorly performing product at retail has spelled the demise of many high profile developers this gen.

Whats your take?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:29:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Rey Bahn
what are your realistic expectations for Dust?
I expect it to be a somewhat short-lived (say 2 years of well-being and then a long tail of dwindling numbers as tech advances?) niche game that relates to the big AAA titles in much the way as EVE relates to WoW.

While it was backed by a big studio and thus had some legs on it to begin with, I point towards Borderlands as a good example of how (and why) you don't need an establised IP to do well: it did something other big-name console (and PC, for that matter) FPSes didn't do by being aimed more towards the old Diablo-junkie/hording/ph4t-lewts and character-building kind of gameplay under a veneer of FPS (and with very fun co-op thrown in as a huge bonus). It also prolonged its lifespan by issuing addons.

If dust can be similarly different (ehm… yes), I think it can catch an audience as well.

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:46:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Same activity (shooting stuff, yelling at vent) maybe — but not same genre. Most notably (back then) in that it was actually more of an RTS (with very misbehaving units) than an FPS. Razz
eh? RTS?! What, bf1942? I played from release date, not even close to an RTS, sorry. And bf isn't about fps bots anyway, you play it on-line, period.
Quote:
No, it was pretty much 100% persistent. There was no "map reset", no rounds, no beginning or end. When you took a tower or a base or a continent, it stay that way until someone came along and took it back. Your character kept progressing and you had to respec to do something else (rather than just pick a new class for the next round), which took ages… relatively speaking.

eh no, it was caped. There was a limit on how many players could be in a given area. That kinda negates "persistence". As for skill training, that's not really mmofps only any longer, the regular multi-player fps' do that as well. And yes, there were "resets" in planetside ;) But not as common as the resets in wwiiol.

Pol Macsliebh
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:49:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Pol Macsliebh on 28/03/2011 13:49:48
Play Dust on your PC/TV/MAC without any console "simples"

http://www.onlive.com/#1

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:53:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Omega Sunset
eh? RTS?! What, bf1942?
No, Planetside.
Quote:
eh no, it was caped. There was a limit on how many players could be in a given area. That kinda negates "persistence".
How so? Persistence only means that things stay the way they are — it has nothing to do with population limits.
Quote:
As for skill training, that's not really mmofps only any longer
Not any longer, no, but at the time, it was uniquely a (MMO)RPG trait that they brought into an (MMO)FPS game.

Rey Bahn
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:55:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Rey Bahn on 28/03/2011 13:57:26
Originally by: Tippia
While it was backed by a big studio and thus had some legs on it to begin with, I point towards Borderlands as a good example of how (and why) you don't need an establised IP to do well: it did something other big-name console (and PC, for that matter) FPSes didn't do by being aimed more towards the old Diablo-junkie/hording/ph4t-lewts and character-building kind of gameplay under a veneer of FPS (and with very fun co-op thrown in as a huge bonus). It also prolonged its lifespan by issuing addons.

If dust can be similarly different (ehm… yes), I think it can catch an audience too.


Hoarderlands best Lands Very Happy

Love that game and probably my favourite console FPS this gen. That title presses a lot of the right buttons across a few genres though as you mentioned, especially co-op loot hoarding and some great DLC as well.

I would love to see Dust be more than an arena, shotguns in a shoebox FPS. That market is over-saturated on consoles. Something like Borderlands would be a better fit for me. Have the PVP arena area as well but also maintain a playerbase through co-op PVE content as well.

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:16:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Tippia
No, Planetside.
Now, I didn't play that at launch, but never heard it called an RTS. I played for a little over 2 years, starting about a year after launch. How did they go from RTS to FPS in one year?
Quote:
How so? Persistence only means that things stay the way they are — it has nothing to do with population limits.
Sure it does, just like instancing does. The population is part of the formula. If you remove or split part of the population, you no longer have persistence. The players are not necessarily the causality in this case, but part of the landscape so to say.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:22:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/03/2011 14:25:18
Originally by: Omega Sunset
Now, I didn't play that at launch, but never heard it called an RTS. I played for a little over 2 years, starting about a year after launch. How did they go from RTS to FPS in one year?
They didn't, but the core gameplay is rather more of an RTS: get your units into position, take the key locations, zerg the enemy, roll out tanks, etc etc etc. It's just that the units are other players and they seem to have the path-finding capabillities of an early Bioware game. Razz

Again, the main activity was shooting people in first-person, but the gameplay was more along the lines of what you find in an RTS.
Quote:
Sure it does, just like instancing does. The population is part of the formula. If you remove or split part of the population, you no longer have persistence.
Again, how so? Persistence means that things stay the way they are. How does splitting the population in any way affect that, especially considering that they specifically didn't use instancing? It was one whole world, and unless someone took active measure to change it, it remained the same… well, once the ANTs had done their job, at least.

Population limits is a complete non-factor for persistence — in fact, the ability for the world to exist, to stay the same (or to change) without everyone being present is one of the defining features of a persistent world: it exists on its own, with or without players.

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.03.29 00:40:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Tippia
They didn't, but the core gameplay is rather more of an RTS: get your units into position, take the key locations, zerg the enemy, roll out tanks, etc etc etc. It's just that the units are other players and they seem to have the path-finding capabillities of an early Bioware game. Razz

Again, the main activity was shooting people in first-person, but the gameplay was more along the lines of what you find in an RTS.
Can't agree. It's a shooter like any other, just squad/team based. PS is even more typical FPS than wwiiol is in fact, as it was far more like a sim... but not quite. Anyway, be it PS or BF2142, I'm practically experiencing the same game play between the two, though BF is even faster.
Quote:
Again, how so? Persistence means that things stay the way they are. How does splitting the population in any way affect that, especially considering that they specifically didn't use instancing? It was one whole world, and unless someone took active measure to change it, it remained the same… well, once the ANTs had done their job, at least.

Population limits is a complete non-factor for persistence — in fact, the ability for the world to exist, to stay the same (or to change) without everyone being present is one of the defining features of a persistent world: it exists on its own, with or without players.


Regardless of instance 0 being split or terminated, if mechanics remove players from instance 0, than it just cannot be a truly persistent state. Like I said, I count the players into that formula as well. In fact, the design of that zone or area has a player factor in the formula. From an administrative view, players or population is a part of that zone. Once you start whittling the players away, they take part of the persistence formula with them, thus it's not truly persistent.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.03.29 02:56:00 - [70]
 

Playing an FPS on a server 3000 miles away or on a P2P "server" on some kids lounge-room floor is not conducive to clans, community and growth.

* 50ms latency is a must.
* Speed of light is a constant.


Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.03.29 03:04:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Dr BattleSmith

* 50ms latency is a must.

Yep, gotta agree. Generally, servers in Europe are around 280ms for me. That's worse than the dial-up I used to have. They would need to scatter multiple servers around the globe for sure, or it's a game meant for Europe alone almost as EVE is.
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
* Speed of light is a constant.
Sure, it's a constant as much as time is a constant... which is not ;) But well enough for the example :)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.29 04:39:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Omega Sunset
Regardless of instance 0 being split or terminated, if mechanics remove players from instance 0, than it just cannot be a truly persistent state. Like I said, I count the players into that formula as well.
And I'm asking why — you haven't really answered that yet.

There is no "formula" involved. A persistent world is simply defined as one that exists on its own, with or without players in it — one that cannot be "paused" and which doesn't reset. The "with or without" part means that population is not a factor.

Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.03.29 05:11:00 - [73]
 

I have a feeling Dust will be your typical shooter a la Battlefield 2, Bad Company 2, or any other online shooter with vehicles. Meaning, it will not turn many heads.

Console gamers will not care that their actions cause consequences for EVE players for the simplest reason that they don't play EVE. It's difficult to tout the "wow factor" of a persistent FPS world when the demand for such a system isn't particularly high on the totem pole either. People have consistently mentioned Planetside as the quintessential persistent online FPS, but the issue is that the game is dead, and nearly the only one of its kind.

Games like Global Agenda, Monday Night Combat, and even Team Fortress 2 are the more popular iterations of the pure online FPS: heavily-instanced squad-based combat w/ a dose of vehicles or emplacements for a "strategic" feel.

The EVE Future video is a misnomer at best. While minor, nobody will play if an EVE "Overseer" is just going to orbital bombard his own team into oblivion. Regardless if it's smashing good fun for the EVE player.

Teranul
Posted - 2011.03.29 05:16:00 - [74]
 

I really have to agree that shooting for the consoles is just plain a bad idea.

What with the console generation going to last only for, at most, another three years, and the transient nature of console player bases (always moving on to the next big thing), it really seems like they'd see a bigger win by putting it on the PC, or at least going multiplatform with the PC. There's no way the consoles will allow Dust 514 the longevity it needs to really work alongside the base game.

Kaedama Katar
Posted - 2011.03.29 12:50:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Who said its going to be a persistent world?
Because EVE is, and they're going to fight over "our" planets.


From my understanding its still going to work like a match system. The contracts are just fluff for groups to pick up and gain some money on. Though so little has been released about Dust its hard to say.

Depends on how far Eve players will be able to interact with what's happening on the planets. If we're able to airstrike planets like suggested in the latest trailer, for example, then in Dust you can only succeed if you cooperate closely with Eve players. Otherwise you'll end up getting bombed to bits by enemy alliances airstriking the planets you're fighting on.

So in that sense it would be persistent and a key element rather than just fluff.

Heidron Zateki
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:36:00 - [76]
 

What does CCP have to say to the fans who either dont have a PS3 or are not inclined to spend several hundred dollars to play a single game?
Confused

Chandler Urandom
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:45:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Chandler Urandom on 20/06/2011 22:49:02
Originally by: Heidron Zateki
What does CCP have to say to the fans who either dont have a PS3 or are not inclined to spend several hundred dollars to play a single game?
Confused


Cut your hair and get a job. If not, sucks to be you.

Edit'd: I too wish Dust was coming for PC, but this was never really on the table. CCP wants to expand into another market, which is perfectly reasonable, and the FPS PC scene is relatively small compared to consoles nowadays.

Dimitri Fukoyama
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:52:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Heidron Zateki
What does CCP have to say to the fans who either dont have a PS3 or are not inclined to spend several hundred dollars to play a single game?
Confused


I dont think ive ever seen them comment on that. Theyre sticking to the official line "reaching to another market" when they must know alot of eve players want to play Dust.

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:54:00 - [79]
 

By 'console' they mean the PS3.

Aka Hackboxes Online, with the Lame Anti-Crack Expansion Pack!

Baraka Saibot
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:40:00 - [80]
 

Pffft... Consoles! Get with the times CCP!

The real future is smart phones and tablets powered by the almighty cloud!

At least they are trying to implement unified communications! It's also hot!(Has been for 20 years, but who cares! HOT! Let's make a first person shooter and sell it with the promise of UC).


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