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Joni Taron
Posted - 2011.03.27 23:14:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Joni Taron on 27/03/2011 23:14:47
I believe that for Dust to be populated by enough players interested in playing it over a long time (more like an MMO not as one of 50 random console shooter games released every damn year), and make the eve-dust link work properly they will have to open it up to eve players. you know, those of us who spend our money upgrading our kick-ass gaming machines instead of bothering with the silly overpriced console crap.

my 0.2 isk

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.28 04:14:00 - [32]
 

What is it about console players being different than PC players, that people can't seem to understand?

There are different types of gamers out there.

Not everyone is some fat neckbeard who touches himself while he looks at a monitor with graphs and spreadsheets farming Sanctums and missions non-stop and gets a chubby if he hears about some real girl who might get on voice comms that plays the same game he does.

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.03.28 05:03:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
What is it about console players being different than PC players, that people can't seem to understand?

There are different types of gamers out there.

Oh easy, for me it's always been about the mods and mod/dev tools. PC games get upgrades too, and their longevity increased (such as TA/Spring for example) and I like to play some games for years. Most people/kids that play console, just play console. How boring. Then toss the game after 40 hours. If EVE had been released on console only, it probably would have shut down a few years ago an never a mention about Dust or WoD... or who CCP was.

Nuniki
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.28 07:16:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Awesome Possum
only kiddies that want to use aimbot/wallhacks cry for FPS to be on PC.


Keep on thinking that it's not possible to cheat on a console. rofl!

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.03.28 07:26:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 28/03/2011 07:28:50
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
PS3 are hard to find at the moment, mostly because of the panic with the recent litigation between Sony and Geohot.

Xbox and Xbox 360, takes a bit of searching, but they can be found.

They are full of bugs, and many times it takes some personal modifications to get a game to work.

However, the best ones aren't even emulators, but reprocessed versions of the console OS.

that might work indeed for the original Xbox (which basically used PC Hardware) - but even the Xbox 360 runs on PowerPC which is very slow to emulate on x86 as all the nice virtualization features in modern processors can't be used (anyone remember PearPC? gl running games on that - just booting MacOS took 5-10 minutes).

(Please don't cite Rosetta as an example how to do this right, that worked very differently from a full VM on which you might be able to install a modified version of the console OS itself)

And trying to get a somewhat decent performance from emulating the PS3 with its mix of PowerPC PPE, 6 SPEs & 1 Hypervisor SPE is just hopeless.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.03.28 07:54:00 - [36]
 

I honestly think CCP is making a bad business choice by trying to get into the console FPS market. Not only are they very unknown but also that market is over populated. Also the life span of the current gen of consoles is coming to a end. So judging by the time frame in which CCP plans on releasing DUST it will only have a shelf life of a couple years before the next gen.

Lastly I don't see how CCP will profit off of micro-transactions in a console FPS. DLCs are one thing but having a full blown micro-transaction system doesn't seem like it will catch on with console gamers. Not only that but not sure how Microsoft will feel about that.


Eileen Sideways
Posted - 2011.03.28 09:10:00 - [37]
 

A kind of halfway house would be to realease a Wii version. I'm probably biased as I own one, but I have to say using the gun on Cod reflex or any other fps on the Wii kicks the crap out of eggsbox and gaystation for playability and overall enjoyment. I reckon it even gives the keyboard mouse a run for it's money. Smile

Logan LaMort
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.28 09:13:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Logan LaMort on 28/03/2011 09:14:28
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
I honestly think CCP is making a bad business choice by trying to get into the console FPS market. Not only are they very unknown but also that market is over populated. Also the life span of the current gen of consoles is coming to a end. So judging by the time frame in which CCP plans on releasing DUST it will only have a shelf life of a couple years before the next gen.

Lastly I don't see how CCP will profit off of micro-transactions in a console FPS. DLCs are one thing but having a full blown micro-transaction system doesn't seem like it will catch on with console gamers. Not only that but not sure how Microsoft will feel about that.




The lifetime of the PS3 and Xbox 360 won't be coming to an end until 2015. That's still 4 years away, plenty of time for Dust to make a presence if it's released in the next year or two.

CCP arn't well known no, but a lot of Dust related articles crop up in popular console magazines. From experience I know a few friends who own a 360 and they're pretty excited for it. Course that's my own experience but CCP arn't that unknown company they used to be.

DLC = Microtransactions. They're very popular on consoles (Which I really hate). For example, Playstation Home has clothing you can purchase for your avatar for £0.5 + and people do buy them. Playstation Home isn't even a game, it's literally what everyone fears Incarna will be.

Xbox live you can purchase clothes for that silly cartoon avatar you have, except for the price of lunch. People do it, it's ridiculous the amount of ******ed mini DLC/Microtransactions you can throw at people that will buy it. There's a few good examples on Steam too.

Like I said before, if Dust is an enjoyable experience, people will throw money at it and it will get a following.

EDIT: i r didn proof read Sad

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 09:16:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
What is it about console players being different than PC players, that people can't seem to understand?

There are different types of gamers out there.
In fact, why is it people seemingly can't understand that there is no such things as a "console player" or a "PC player"?

There are simply different game genres which are more suited for certain platforms, and then there are players who have a set of preferences across these various genres.

Logan LaMort
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.28 09:19:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Marconus Orion
What is it about console players being different than PC players, that people can't seem to understand?

There are different types of gamers out there.
In fact, why is it people seemingly can't understand that there is no such things as a "console player" or a "PC player"?

There are simply different game genres which are more suited for certain platforms, and then there are players who have a set of preferences across these various genres.


So much this.

Neamus
Posted - 2011.03.28 09:45:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Neamus on 28/03/2011 09:45:45
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Marconus Orion
What is it about console players being different than PC players, that people can't seem to understand?

There are different types of gamers out there.
In fact, why is it people seemingly can't understand that there is no such things as a "console player" or a "PC player"?

There are simply different game genres which are more suited for certain platforms, and then there are players who have a set of preferences across these various genres.


Um, yes there is...

If your preference is a PS3 or 360, then you're a console player, and vice versa for PC users.

I play pretty much exclusively on the PC, therefore I'm a PC player. I cannot be a console player because I don't use one, and to say that I'm just "a player" isn't strictly true either because it infers that I play console as well.

Some game genres are better on one platform than another? Sorry but I call BS on that tbh. PC does every game genre well.

Need a controller? PC
Need a mouse / keyboard? PC
Steering Wheel? PC
TV? PC
Monitor? PC
Motion controller? PC
Console emulator? PC
An order of magnitude more processing power? PC
The ability to install what ever OS / software you want? PC
Pretty much every genre of game on the planet? PC

Sorry but PC does it all. Don't get me wrong, consoles are great for what they are... Specialised gaming machines (cheap cut-down versions of PC's)... But they're no where near as versatile, adaptable or capable as the PC. Perhaps the next gen of consoles will be, honestly I don't know... But as things stand right now the PC is king.


Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.03.28 10:06:00 - [42]
 

I stream netflix on a PS3, I'm a console gamer Crying or Very sad

Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.03.28 10:16:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
What is it about console players being different than PC players, that people can't seem to understand?

There are different types of gamers out there.

Not everyone is some fat neckbeard who touches himself while he looks at a monitor with graphs and spreadsheets farming Sanctums and missions non-stop and gets a chubby if he hears about some real girl who might get on voice comms that plays the same game he does.



And not all PC gamers are the same. I have no beard, I hate spreadsheets, wouldn't know a sanctum if it kicked me in the groin, run a mission every two or three days and have a girlfriend who ISN'T just a voice on coms. But I would much rather play an FPS on a PC than on a console.

Mostly because I find it easier to control, but also partly because I don't like being stuck playing MW2 with mouthy 12 year old console gamers with ADHD and penchant for animal abuse.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.03.28 10:18:00 - [44]
 

tl;dr: Some folks did a study of PS3 vs Xbox vs PC, in terms of PLAYERS, and PC beat them all. This is due to a MUCH better control interface.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 10:25:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/03/2011 10:28:31
Originally by: Neamus
Um, yes there is...
Uh, no there isn't.
Quote:
If your preference is a PS3 or 360, then you're a console player, and vice versa for PC users.
…except, of course, that it doesn't work that way. You have a preference for something that exists on PS3s or 360s or Wiis or PCs. If you have a preference for the platform itself, you are narrow-minded at best — at worst, just plain old stupid.
Quote:
I play pretty much exclusively games that work best on the PC
Fixed. Why do you do that? Most likely because the game play you like is only available on PCs.

Now, counter-example: me. What am I?

I play my MMOs on PCs; I play my RTSes on PCs; I play my FPSes and TPSes on PCs or consoles (depending on type); I play my social games on consoles; I play my arcade games on consoles; I play my beat-em-up/fighter games on consoles; I play my casual games on iOS; I play my platfomers on consoles; I play my sims on PCs; I play that interesting genre that has been called "action adventure" on consoles; I play my classic adventure games on PCs.

…and that's just painting it with very broad strokes — in each case, there are particular games that exist on particular platforms, so I play them on that platform.

So what am I? Simple: I am a gamer. I laugh at people who think there's such a thing as a "pc gamer" or a "console gamer" and if they refer to themselves by any of these titles, I laugh even harder. What idiocy. If you want to refer to yourself as having preference for a particular genre, fine — that may steer you towards a certain platform. Anything else is just fanboy-ism, and thus uninformed and ignorant by default.
Quote:
I cannot be a console player because I don't use one
…because you haven't found any category of games that you like and that would compel you to buy one and play on it.
Quote:
Some game genres are better on one platform than another? Sorry but I call BS on that tbh. PC does every game genre well.
No. Not even close.
Or well… yes, they could do most genres, if they existed on PCs. But since they don't, no.

And no, emulators only show that you're quite wrong: that some games (or even entire genres) do not exist on PCs. "Could do" is not the same as "does".

Rey Bahn
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:34:00 - [46]
 

Dust514 being a success on consoles? Not at this point in the 360/PS3 lifespans. Without the full support of the first parties or top 3 publishers in that market your game is going to have very short legs. That is especially true for an FPS from an unproven developer like CCP China. Activision, EA, UBISOFT, MS and Sony publishing mechanisms will bury CCP/Dust with advertising/marketing alone. CCP would be very wise to be developing Dust as a hybrid FPS MMO interconnected to EVE for PC as there is absolutely space there to compete for a dedicated fanbase(300,000+ subs for EVE - CCP will be lucky to sell 100,000 copies of Dust even in an off month for AAA releases on consoles)

Dust will have to go up against these titles over the next 3 years on current gen consoles and all will have release windows in the prime retail months worldwide -

Call Of Duty - Activision
Halo - Microsoft
Battlefield - EA
Killzone - Sony
Tom Clancy titles - Ubisoft

..not to mention these pubs have AAA titles that take up the spaces in between the release of the games mentioned above like Gears Of War, Resistance, SOCOM, Medal Of Honor and so on..

Dust might do as well as the console version of Operation Flashpoint or Quake Wars: Enemy Territory but that's about it by my reckoning. They both sold around 50,000-75,000 worldwide.

If CCP announce a worldwide publishing deal with Activision, EA or Ubi or go exclusive to one of the two HD twins through MS or Sony then maybe there might be a spark of hope for a very moderate success at best but going with the mid to lower pubs like Codemasters, THQ or SEGA they will be a flash in the pan and the game will be lucky to have 10,000 actives by the end of the third month of release.

Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:43:00 - [47]
 

dust would only be fun if i could throw my wiimote at terrible pubbies?

Ticarus Hellbrandt
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:45:00 - [48]
 

Who cares, it will be just like the other expansions, huge activity for a month or 2 after launch and then huge drop off as gamers get bored and move on.

Brother Dei
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:56:00 - [49]
 

Using a controller for FPS is like using a keyboard to play DOOM. It's like going 20 years back.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:10:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 28/03/2011 12:10:09
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Awesome Possum
only kiddies that want to use aimbot/wallhacks cry for FPS to be on PC.

Also, people that don't own any consoles and don't plan to buy one just to play one single game.


This is false, I bought both my PS3 and Xbox360 for different versions of a single game only. Afterwards I bought other games, but the original decision for buying was just for one.
:P

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:29:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Rey Bahn
Dust will have to go up against these titles over the next 3 years on current gen consoles and all will have release windows in the prime retail months worldwide -

Call Of Duty - Activision
Halo - Microsoft
Battlefield - EA
Killzone - Sony
Tom Clancy titles - Ubisoft
Maybe. The thing is, though, that none of those titles are really in the same genre as Dust — if CCP can push that angle, they have a slightly better chance at doing well.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:39:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Awesome Possum
only people that don't want to fuss with a controller and aim assist want cry for FPS to be on PC.


Fixed that for you.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:46:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 28/03/2011 12:46:58
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Rey Bahn
Dust will have to go up against these titles over the next 3 years on current gen consoles and all will have release windows in the prime retail months worldwide -

Call Of Duty - Activision
Halo - Microsoft
Battlefield - EA
Killzone - Sony
Tom Clancy titles - Ubisoft
Maybe. The thing is, though, that none of those titles are really in the same genre as Dust — if CCP can push that angle, they have a slightly better chance at doing well.


I don't really see how they are NOT in the same genre. Especially titles like Halo and the rumored "futuristic" CoD thats next to come out. From what very little I've seen so far theres nothing that sets Dust apart from any other FPS. And don't give me the link crap between EvE and Dust because lets be honest in a FPS the players don't care who or why gives them their money/rewards so long as they can get them.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:52:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
I don't really see how they are NOT in the same genre. Especially titles like Halo and the rumored "futuristic" CoD thats next to come out. From what very little I've seen so far theres nothing that sets Dust apart from any other FPS.
They're not really the same genre for the same reason as why Planetside wasn't really the same genre as UT2k3 or CS:S or BF1942: a persistent world.
Quote:
And don't give me the link crap between EvE and Dust because lets be honest in a FPS the players don't care who or why gives them their money/rewards so long as they can get them.
…and yet that kind of thing (which is where the persistence lies) is what made PS a much more compelling game than those other run-of-the-mill shooters.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:56:00 - [55]
 

console only it will die - players elsewhere pretty quick ccp failed when they forgot pc version of dust but oh well

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:56:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 28/03/2011 12:57:29
Who said its going to be a persistent world?


edit: just so you know tippia your probably going to win this argument since iam sleepy Sad

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:01:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Who said its going to be a persistent world?
Because EVE is, and they're going to fight over "our" planets.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:04:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Who said its going to be a persistent world?
Because EVE is, and they're going to fight over "our" planets.


From my understanding its still going to work like a match system. The contracts are just fluff for groups to pick up and gain some money on. Though so little has been released about Dust its hard to say.

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:10:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Planetside vs. BF1942
Played both for years. Same genre, just served up differently. And really, most FPSers prefer the match type over anything persistent. That's why mmofps' have never really been popular at all. And really, PS was only mostly-persistent, with it's population balancing act, yet they charged premium price for it. Only thing I play regularly from that list is bf2142(pc) and it reminds me a lot of PS. WWIIOL was far more like bf1942... which I'd still be playing if it had native widescreen.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:20:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Omega Sunset
Same genre, just served up differently.
Same activity (shooting stuff, yelling at vent) maybe — but not same genre. Most notably (back then) in that it was actually more of an RTS (with very misbehaving units) than an FPS. Razz
Quote:
And really, PS was only mostly-persistent,
No, it was pretty much 100% persistent. There was no "map reset", no rounds, no beginning or end. When you took a tower or a base or a continent, it stay that way until someone came along and took it back. Your character kept progressing and you had to respec to do something else (rather than just pick a new class for the next round), which took ages… relatively speaking.

You might be right about why this was a reason the genre didn't take off, though…


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