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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.27 12:04:00 - [91]
 

All these poor people who think the CSM means ANYTHING to CCP

CSM 5 got some extra PR spin and time devoted to showing the world how :AWSUM: it is, but in the end.. the result was /ignore and continuing on the predestined road map.

The entire reason it exists is so that media/ MMO sites can write articles about how progressive and cutting edge CCP is.

IreSilver
Posted - 2011.03.27 12:06:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: IreSilver on 27/03/2011 12:07:42
What an excellent example of why a democracy (Although I guess the CSM would be more accurately defines as a representative republic) sucks.

The vast majority of those who seek positions of power do so to take advantage of the position and advance their own wealth and power through it.
This applies from something as simple as a beat cop all the way to being a president, and everything in between, CSM included.
Government is what government is; individuals manipulating the collective for their personal gain.

On the plus side, as many have stated, CSM is pretty ineffectual. So damages will be limited, and CCP will continue on the path to Incarna/Dust 514 (Which I think will be cool, though I agree with others that they ought to fix more pressing game issues beforehand. Oh well.)


Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.27 12:11:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Golar Crexis
I have one account, I'm based in hi-sec and I voted for mittens.
Two reasons.

1. I want null-sec fixed so I can move there proper with my corp/alliance.
2. He is a goon. those guys know how to have fun.


You missed a bit.
Quote:
2. He is a goon. those guys know how to have fun...

...at other people's expense.

You ARE other people. You will ALWAYS BE other people. If you are not a goon, you will not magically become a goon, no matter how much you would like to be (nor how much of a membership deposit you pay Twisted Evil )

The goons are who they are, they liven the game up, to be sure - but I wouldn't trust them running a tea party, and I sure wouldn't trust them looking out for the needs of the many in a game that they love to troll. This is, admittedly, probably going to be their best troll yet.

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the primary thing that the NC CSM will want fixed is 'Fix lag nao' whilst 'everything else is fine, more techtinium plz'

Yes, nullsec is broken, and at the moment, it's broken in NC's favour - why would they want to fix that part?

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.27 12:44:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Shandir
Originally by: Golar Crexis
I have one account, I'm based in hi-sec and I voted for mittens.
Two reasons.

1. I want null-sec fixed so I can move there proper with my corp/alliance.
2. He is a goon. those guys know how to have fun.


You missed a bit.
Quote:
2. He is a goon. those guys know how to have fun...

...at other people's expense.

You ARE other people. You will ALWAYS BE other people. If you are not a goon, you will not magically become a goon, no matter how much you would like to be (nor how much of a membership deposit you pay Twisted Evil )

The goons are who they are, they liven the game up, to be sure - but I wouldn't trust them running a tea party, and I sure wouldn't trust them looking out for the needs of the many in a game that they love to troll. This is, admittedly, probably going to be their best troll yet.

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the primary thing that the NC CSM will want fixed is 'Fix lag nao' whilst 'everything else is fine, more techtinium plz'

Yes, nullsec is broken, and at the moment, it's broken in NC's favour - why would they want to fix that part?


As stated multiple times, Technetium is broken and most of the CSM that I've talked to acknowledges that.

Yet, I continue to see pubbies like you spew the same misinformation over and over. Are you that unimaginative?

Sticky Nikki
Posted - 2011.03.27 12:57:00 - [95]
 

blimey, someone I voted for go in?

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.27 13:12:00 - [96]
 

I see you picked on a single point in my post.
My other points about:
Goons being shameless trolls,
having fun at other people's expense (Yes, an important EVE trait, but not one that should be elected to the CSM),
that the primary change lobbied for will be the obvious and yet stupid one 'fix lag' (Everyone knows already),
that the NC candidates will put NC needs before those of the majority of the playerbase?

Oh, and here's a new one - that the NC candidates now have the numbers to ruin the CSM internal vote process - taking the other candidates out of the voting loop. Even assuming that the NC candidates have a real say in their own vote and the Mittani isn't mostly guiding them, they can have a private vote on an issue and then push their agenda forward with unity. Normally, it would take an agreement of a majority of 5 players to agree on a topic, and now, they can push through any topic which the majority of the NC CSM candidates agree upon (majority of three) with no way in the current system to prevent it. This is the way they handled the election - using the unified voting power of a bloc to override the much less unified voting members outside that bloc. This is also not conspiracy theorising as it is exactly how real-world party politics work. EVE just didn't have party politics until today.

Real world politics has too much strategic voting, I don't think that the CSM should be part of the metagame in this way.

'Pubby'? Am I supposed to know and/or care what that means?

Freidrich Nietchize
Gallente
Capitalist Pigs Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:41:00 - [97]
 

I voted with both of my accounts and am pleased by the results.
I hope this is the most constructive CSM to date.
Congrats and good luck to all the new members.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:57:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Shandir
I see you picked on a single point in my post.
My other points about:
Goons being shameless trolls,


We are literally the only trolls in Eve Online: A Bad Game.

Quote:
having fun at other people's expense (Yes, an important EVE trait, but not one that should be elected to the CSM),


It's an important Eve trait, but shouldn't be on the CSM? What?

Quote:
that the primary change lobbied for will be the obvious and yet stupid one 'fix lag' (Everyone knows already),


Actually, the primary changes will be to get the CSM to actually mean something to CCP. Then they'll work on the horrendous backlog.

Quote:
that the NC candidates will put NC needs before those of the majority of the playerbase?


You're right. 0.0 is totally sustainable without Empire working as it currently is. Completely.

Quote:
Oh, and here's a new one - that the NC candidates now have the numbers to ruin the CSM internal vote process - taking the other candidates out of the voting loop. Even assuming that the NC candidates have a real say in their own vote and the Mittani isn't mostly guiding them, they can have a private vote on an issue and then push their agenda forward with unity. Normally, it would take an agreement of a majority of 5 players to agree on a topic, and now, they can push through any topic which the majority of the NC CSM candidates agree upon (majority of three) with no way in the current system to prevent it. This is the way they handled the election - using the unified voting power of a bloc to override the much less unified voting members outside that bloc. This is also not conspiracy theorising as it is exactly how real-world party politics work. EVE just didn't have party politics until today.


Nice tinfoil hat. Can I try one on? Do you make spares?

This point can only be proven after the fact. Speculation does nothing.

Quote:
Real world politics has too much strategic voting, I don't think that the CSM should be part of the metagame in this way.


Right, nobody metagames on Eve.

Quote:
'Pubby'? Am I supposed to know and/or care what that means?


It's you, sir.

I hope that you have enjoyed my point-by-point breakdown and rebuttal of your post. Is this more to your liking?

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.03.27 17:31:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: LordElfa on 27/03/2011 17:33:34
Look, the fact is that while the Goons and NC may be ruthless bastards, they actually do care about and have time and money invested in EVE. They want this game to be polished and fixed because that benefits them and in turn, it benefits us.

Personally, I think they'll use this opportunity to gain some respect from the EVE playerbase for their ability to get things done and be unified while doing it. These people may be some of the most evil players in EVE, but in real life many of them are responsible and highly intelligent individuals. They play the game like *******s because thats is the game. However, what they do in the CSM is not the game, its the technical workings of the game and I think that they'll bring to the table, not the ******* characters they play, but the truly intelligent and responsible people they are in real life since that is what they'll need if they wish to get things accomplished.

You want to call me names because I support them, fine, we shall see. Don't judge a real life book by its in game cover you bunch of whiners.

Jenna Malone
Caldari
W-hat LLC
Posted - 2011.03.27 17:37:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Shandir
Quote:
2. He is a goon. those guys know how to have fun...

...at other people's expense.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ! I didn't want to post in this thread, but your response took the cake.

This is a ****ing PVP game. In that setting, there's OF COURSE always one player having fun on the expense of someone else. Or groups. If you can't deal with getting owned all the damn time, learn how to play the goddamn game and join a corp/alliance that isn't full of mouthbreathers.

Then again, you're in EVE University, it's not like you actually notice or understand what's actually happening around you.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.27 18:07:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Jenna Malone
Originally by: Shandir
Quote:
2. He is a goon. those guys know how to have fun...

...at other people's expense.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ! I didn't want to post in this thread, but your response took the cake.

This is a ****ing PVP game. In that setting, there's OF COURSE always one player having fun on the expense of someone else. Or groups. If you can't deal with getting owned all the damn time, learn how to play the goddamn game and join a corp/alliance that isn't full of mouthbreathers.

Then again, you're in EVE University, it's not like you actually notice or understand what's actually happening around you.


Actually, I have to say that s/he is the only Eve-U person I've ever had a problem with.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.27 18:31:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Riveting Tale Sibling
Trebor - Bribed for votes. (Seriously, Trebor? I was so in support of you having been one of the few returning candidates who attended EVERY CSM meeting.)

The only CSM5 member to do so, actually.

As for bribing for votes, the primary point of the contest was to get some viral awareness of the election and my candidacy going -- after all, there was no way I could confirm whether or not anyone actually voted for me.

However, a secondary goal embedded in the viral structure of the contest was to collect information about the associations between characters. The contest was specifically designed so you could maximize your expected value by not only entering using alts, but also by having an entry be sponsored by a "podfather", which indicated a social link between two characters. Some of these link networks were extensive; one was 18 characters deep!

This chaining information could, in the hands of an unscrupulous person, be used to do all sorts of naughty things, such as uncover spies, shadow corporations, and so on. Fortunately, as an Interstellar Politician who represents all of the pod-pilots of EVE, I am above such petty matters, and would (for example), never ever sell the database.

Several side notes:

First of all, my congratulations to Pandemic Legion, none of whom entered the competition. Either you didn't care, or you figured out the possibilities -- I shall assume the latter.

Secondly, to the many goons who entered, sorry that one of you didn't win -- that would have been so poetic.

And finally, I would like to point out that since Mynxee contributed 4B to the prize fund, and I only had to pay 3.306B out (to Draco Cephus), I made a profit on the whole deal.

ModeratedToSilence
Posted - 2011.03.27 19:04:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn

ISK faucets need to be shut. ISK sinks need to be opened wider.



hahaha the biggest isk faucet in the game has almost no risk, has nothing to do with 0.0 and is called level 4 missions.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.27 20:24:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Originally by: Mara Rinn

ISK faucets need to be shut. ISK sinks need to be opened wider.



hahaha the biggest isk faucet in the game has almost no risk, has nothing to do with 0.0 and is called level 4 missions.


Well you see, that isn't true because you don't just get isk from those missions, you also get LP and loot that you have to sell, which

Silath Silverpine
Posted - 2011.03.27 20:36:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Silath Silverpine on 27/03/2011 20:37:15
Edited by: Silath Silverpine on 27/03/2011 20:36:51
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Riveting Tale Sibling
Trebor - Bribed for votes. (Seriously, Trebor? I was so in support of you having been one of the few returning candidates who attended EVERY CSM meeting.)


This chaining information could, in the hands of an unscrupulous person, be used to do all sorts of naughty things, such as uncover spies, shadow corporations, and so on. Fortunately, as an Interstellar Politician who represents all of the pod-pilots of EVE, I am above such petty matters, and would (for example), never ever sell the database.




Shoot, may as well admit to it. Just as blatant.

That said I don't really care much (just enough to bother with a reply), I merely find your response hilarious. Along with the results of the entire CSM election.

In the end, EVE is just a game. The choice to play it is up to oneself.

-Edit- Whoopsie, forgot to change my posting character over to my main. This is my jita alt. Oh well.

Jane Bennet
Posted - 2011.03.27 20:45:00 - [106]
 

It's interesting the number of votes cast is split into a "30-250 day" age bracket. Why can't we see a "30-60 day" age bracket, to show how many PLEX were spent on buying votes? (buddy program + PLEX = 51-day old voters, normal free trial + PLEX = 44 day old voters).

Anyway, gz to Goons, you won EVE. My three accounts have been unsubscribed ("OMG HOW CAN YOU STILL POAST??!!?!" Well the paid subscription time hasn't run out yet), and probably won't open again. I paid to play EVE, not to play GOONs, to paraphrase an old Goon battlecry.

Heimer Drago
Minmatar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.27 20:47:00 - [107]
 

Congratulations to The Mittani and Vile Rat for winning spots in this years CSM election. Also congrats to the other candidates. The future of this game is now in educated, experienced hands we can rely on.

Now for most of the rest of you. Please keep up the trolling, the bad posting, and crying pubbie tears we feed off of on forums.




Julia Venatrix
Posted - 2011.03.27 20:57:00 - [108]
 

C'mon folks.

I don't expect this CSM to be "better" (or worse) than any previous one, nor more effective than previous ones in either improving the game as a whole or getting the individual members' pet changes implemented.

I do think that this CSM may have fewer illusions about those facts though.

Really, I just honestly hope that they all have a nice time in Iceland, and that they post about what the rotting jellied shark tastes like. ugh

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.27 21:06:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Jane Bennet
I'M TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME

Ponder Stuff
Posted - 2011.03.27 21:44:00 - [110]
 

Holy Sh*t now we all have to deal with goons..... up until now it was just those unlucky enough to meet them ingame..

I think its only fair to see the fulll results and all the information... I dont think we CCP will show us though as it would cause to much hasstle for them.

Simple answer.... Bring Down NC and the Goons with them......

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.27 22:31:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Ponder Stuff
Simple answer.... Bring Down NC and the Goons with them......


Please? I'd like a good war right about now.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.03.28 02:54:00 - [112]
 

I really wish that voting was only open to 3 months continuous players and over only, however it isn't and given the the majority of players did NOT vote, we sold the vote due to indifference. TO those who say CSM 5 did nothing, I beg your pardon, they were extremely productive, please stop repeating the empty whining and senseless *****ing, and read. The CSM helped change the culture between CCP and the playerbase, and I am thankful.

Best,
AG

Persephone Astrid
The Bastards
Posted - 2011.03.28 03:55:00 - [113]
 

Sausage party. =\

ChromeStriker
Posted - 2011.03.28 08:02:00 - [114]
 

if only you had put that nice table in a graph Sad

Face'off
Posted - 2011.03.28 09:36:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Face''off on 28/03/2011 10:13:08
i've read all the posts so i'll be short and sweet. as i am not prone to trolling or posting, i expect little and care less.

i've been playing for nearly 2 years. i've gone with the flow of things and, while slow at times i've enjoyed the social, over all things. i know the game will have significant changes in it and tweaks that will be very-much wanted. seeing a focused-group get in like the Goonies have ups and downs but also demonstrates some breaks in the representative system.

i applaud them for focused-voting. whatever internal campaigning/alt-vote spamming they did: props. no conspiracy theories, just that. i hope you guys can accomplish what others have 'failed' as i've seen repeatedly quoted in this thread.

i would caution against one idea i've seen suggested and that is the moving of lvl4 missions to LS. it's like McD's changing the size of their fries. --i saw a 2-flip comic strip of a fat kid ordering One Large Fry.. after the change Sixteen Small Fries.-- by moving L4's to LS, you will only seen Mish Runners spamming their L3 agents. in the time i take to run a L4 solo (no straight objective, duking it room-to-room) i could run three L3 missions, solo. with the introduction of the Noctis and the closer-quarters of L3's, zerging is no problem with a dedicated Salv'r or evening a Duo. firing fewer rounds with focused fire from a 2man T3 fleet, the bounties would stack up equally with a L4 mish. yea, the drops might not be so great but that's why we have Reprocessing :)

you want to get people into 0.0?? well i would suggest making a High-Sec ring around Null-Sec. the miners in the 1849 Gold rush only braved the journey because they knew there was a safe-haven on the other side. place some patchy HS pockets along the routes. dont BREAK NS up, just allow some slightly secure channels. this would allow the NS guys a chance to form side-corps that could offer protection to travelers. biggest problem?

TRUST

the same mechanic that broke the voting also backstabs/turncoats the average player. you simply cannot trust who it is you're talking to, if they're 'Ventrilo'ing your ambushed-demise. there's simply no incentive for most people to move into an already populated area with meta-corps and alliances. even if HS as a whole decided to ZERG NS, the focus simply isn't there; if so, it's temporary for a L5 mish.

i've never been to NS and rarely think of doing so. it takes some time to build the trust between corp-members. skills must be trained. timezones conflict heavily. an expansion of NS with either a HS ring or pushing the NS members away from the LS zone to allow new corps a chance are the only incentives i can perceive.

while i may be ranting and the Goonies may bum-rush me with poke-and-prod rebuttals, i care not. i see a game that can be greater that it lay right now. not wishing to join a metacaorp-alliance, i do not foresee myself/corp as a NS presence anytime soon.

yes, it's safer to run missions with LP/bounty/salv. yes, it's safer in HS away from the blob-mechanics of NS. want me in NS? give me an incentive. right now all i see is a huge wall of NO FLY ZONE and bored grievers.

im sure i had a point when i wanted this post to be short and sweet, but as im posting on my portrait-swapped alt i expect this post to carry no credit at all. so be it. i consider myself protecting my corp and alliance by hiding my identity. paranoia? look at the CSM. im only guilty in the company of those who define Guilt.

as for those who didnt vote, i cant say i blame you. the half-assed way the Candidates were listed, along with the MPD this game suffers from, i cannot be sure my vote even mattered. it's the same reason Independent Candidates never win in the US: Focused Party Politics and a Broken Representative System.

so do as you will and i bear no Ill-Will. i do expect great things of the CSM; who they shall benefit is for CCP to decide. if you dont have faith in CCP.. then why are you funding their stock??? ?? ??? ??

Blackcamper
Gallente
The Condemned and Convicted
Posted - 2011.03.28 11:08:00 - [116]
 

Is ther some one who and link ther winners homepage so i can see what he stands for.


War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:17:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Jane Bennet
It's interesting the number of votes cast is split into a "30-250 day" age bracket. Why can't we see a "30-60 day" age bracket, to show how many PLEX were spent on buying votes? (buddy program + PLEX = 51-day old voters, normal free trial + PLEX = 44 day old voters).

Anyway, gz to Goons, you won EVE. My three accounts have been unsubscribed ("OMG HOW CAN YOU STILL POAST??!!?!" Well the paid subscription time hasn't run out yet), and probably won't open again. I paid to play EVE, not to play GOONs, to paraphrase an old Goon battlecry.


Can I have your stuffs?


This should be a fun term... I'm buying extra popcorn. :)

Welps ArUs
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:58:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Welps ArUs on 28/03/2011 14:58:48
Originally by: Face'off
:words:
Don't touch my L4s!
:words:



The only reason anyone is looking askance at L4 missions is not so much that they are the largest ISK faucet in the game, but that they are also the safest as well.
If they retained their safety but reduced the reward (by making them longer, reducing the loot tables, or other reward reductions) then that would help balance things. If they retain their rewards but have increased risk, that would also help balance.

I do agree that moving them to lowsec shoots the risk through the roof, so it might not be the most nuanced method of dealing with them...but something needs to be done. People yammer on about bots in nulsec but conveniently ignore the bots doing L4 missions.

Nulsec, lowsec and sov mechanics need further tweaking to make them more attractive for empire dwellers to consider. I think this CSM will cut to the heart of that and try to get CCP to follow through with some of their previously-promised updates and incentives.

Rayne Stryker
Gallente
Hole Diggers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:06:00 - [119]
 

Congratulations to all that were elected.

To the Mittani, I wish you the best at appropriately representing the capsuleer community. If you screw this up just for craps and giggle, well..............just sayin'

To all the ignorant posting here, just because CCP doesn't say anything about it, doesn't make behavior right or appropriate. Dirtbag politics is dirtbag politics and is performed by dirtbags, period.

For the goons, please make sure you keep your head with you all day today, as it sounds like a number of you are wandering around without yours.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:15:00 - [120]
 

Pretty sure accounts not connected to goons voted for Mittani. Congrats to Mittani and Seleene. This should make for an interesting CSM.


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