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Civire Dissension
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:29:00 - [2941]
 

Originally by: Mithrasith
Let's assume the position from the point of view of the vast majority of the folks in EVE, and also on this thread: They arent directors, nor are they CEO's.

-What option does the individual have to even know what sources of revenue the corporation has?
-What options does the individual have to understand the current assets that the Corp has?
-Shares are largely useless in their current incarnation, so what options does the individual have to ensure a percentage pay-out based on position?
-What if assets are purchased from profits realized as a result of an individuals work efforts. How can the individual player understand the value of those assets if they dont know what assets the corp has, and how can they be sure to get a percentage of the payout when those assets are sold?

In too many cases Corp executive teams use the Corp wallet as their own personal wallet. Ive seen it personally especially with R64 moons. Money gets pulled from it when they want for their own purposes and funds. In addition - your claim regarding CEO's and Directors using the Corp wallet to purchase items for the Corp, ("its been handled purely through the corp wallet."), if that was the case, and that was the majority, why is it that according to QEN4 there is 35 Trillion ISK in corp wallets but 285 trillion ISK in personal wallets?

Wouldnt one conclude that since the most profitiable activity in EVE is to mine Moon Goo, which should be a Corporate level activity, and funds should flow into corporate wallets for that that a larger percentage of funds should be found in Corporate wallets as opposed to Personal wallets? Strange distribution of funds.

The tools are completely inadequate at present in order to distribute wealth in a reliable format.


you are a truck driver for kookooo kola. why do you think you are entitled to oversight, and dividends? IRL,as in game, you need to be a "shareholder" to do this. and, as in real life, if you own enough shares, you get to decide who the CEO is. and again, as in real life, if you DON'T own shares, you only get to vote with your feet.

further: why should the sum total of corps hold more ISK than the sum total of players? are there more corps than there are players now? how did that happen??

Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:30:00 - [2942]
 

Agree with you, but you need 2 characters to get your isk ....

Then go and try to find a good belting place to rat, then try to farm in belts with 2 characters....

You won't earn the same amount. ou will earn 50% less and remember to change your ship...
Farming in belts with carrier or nyx is not a good idea

Lt Pizi
Gallente
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:31:00 - [2943]
 

Originally by: Grog Barrel
Originally by: Lt Pizi
Originally by: Patri Andari
Imagine how much easier this would have been if CCP had done the following:

Make upgrades and upkeep costs more in bad true sec and less in higher true sec yet leave the spawns somewhat the same in bad true sec and better as true sec improves.

Damn, I am a genius!






no you are not

a sanctum/haven makes 100m/h x4 is 400m ph is around 10b a day is 300b a month

so to achive the same goal (nerving the income by half ) the system cost would be 150b ....

now that would be an outcry =)))

(the 100m/h is not my number it was stated by the carbears that run em in this thread)


since your are adding a multiplication of factor 4 into your ecuation, your whole statement is comparable to <insert anything not serious here>


in case you are not aware that in the current system there are in fact 4 sanctims/havens per any updated system i tell you now ... thats why x4

Haoibuni
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:32:00 - [2944]
 

Wanna hit 100 pages.

Have a rethink CCP.

Civire Dissension
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:34:00 - [2945]
 

Originally by: Rainus Max
CCP are you actually going to say ANYTHING on this?

Nearly 100 pages on this and all we get "oops this isnt popular, well look into it" post and then all you do is sweep it under the carpet and carry on.


Welllllll,......... they did say they were looking for "ISK Sinks." Apparently, the best one thy;ve come up with is, "Hey look, spend your money. Wait, we changed our minds, you just flushed all that ISK down the toilet. Nope, we're not even going to say 'sorry about that *stuff* '"...

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:35:00 - [2946]
 

Originally by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Agree with you, but you need 2 characters to get your isk ....

Then go and try to find a good belting place to rat, then try to farm in belts with 2 characters....

You won't earn the same amount. ou will earn 50% less and remember to change your ship...
Farming in belts with carrier or nyx is not a good idea


not ift wil be not 50% less but wil be araund 20% from curent sanctum farming. even with faction spawns with moslty have ****y loot this days.

Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:37:00 - [2947]
 

Originally by: Lt Pizi
Originally by: Grog Barrel
Originally by: Lt Pizi
Originally by: Patri Andari
Imagine how much easier this would have been if CCP had done the following:

Make upgrades and upkeep costs more in bad true sec and less in higher true sec yet leave the spawns somewhat the same in bad true sec and better as true sec improves.

Damn, I am a genius!






no you are not

a sanctum/haven makes 100m/h x4 is 400m ph is around 10b a day is 300b a month

so to achive the same goal (nerving the income by half ) the system cost would be 150b ....

now that would be an outcry =)))

(the 100m/h is not my number it was stated by the carbears that run em in this thread)


since your are adding a multiplication of factor 4 into your ecuation, your whole statement is comparable to <insert anything not serious here>


in case you are not aware that in the current system there are in fact 4 sanctims/havens per any updated system i tell you now ... thats why x4


First go there:

Guristas Sanctum

Then remember it takes time to run them, and when you have 4 anoms in 1 sytem most of time you are not alone.
So generally you have time to run 2 anoms/h with 2 accounts.

Kabars
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:38:00 - [2948]
 

Originally by: Iago TwoHeart
DAMN YOU CCP!!!

If you can so easily ignore so many pages of veteran's complaints then what do you care about losing noob blood?


Well said but they don't care as long as the bigger alliances flursh and the smaller ones fail thats what they want i guess. Its almost like certin alliances have Devs in there back pocket.

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:38:00 - [2949]
 

Originally by: Civire Dissension
Originally by: Mithrasith
Let's assume the position from the point of view of the vast majority of the folks in EVE, and also on this thread: They arent directors, nor are they CEO's.

-What option does the individual have to even know what sources of revenue the corporation has?
-What options does the individual have to understand the current assets that the Corp has?
-Shares are largely useless in their current incarnation, so what options does the individual have to ensure a percentage pay-out based on position?
-What if assets are purchased from profits realized as a result of an individuals work efforts. How can the individual player understand the value of those assets if they dont know what assets the corp has, and how can they be sure to get a percentage of the payout when those assets are sold?

In too many cases Corp executive teams use the Corp wallet as their own personal wallet. Ive seen it personally especially with R64 moons. Money gets pulled from it when they want for their own purposes and funds. In addition - your claim regarding CEO's and Directors using the Corp wallet to purchase items for the Corp, ("its been handled purely through the corp wallet."), if that was the case, and that was the majority, why is it that according to QEN4 there is 35 Trillion ISK in corp wallets but 285 trillion ISK in personal wallets?

Wouldnt one conclude that since the most profitiable activity in EVE is to mine Moon Goo, which should be a Corporate level activity, and funds should flow into corporate wallets for that that a larger percentage of funds should be found in Corporate wallets as opposed to Personal wallets? Strange distribution of funds.

The tools are completely inadequate at present in order to distribute wealth in a reliable format.


you are a truck driver for kookooo kola. why do you think you are entitled to oversight, and dividends? IRL,as in game, you need to be a "shareholder" to do this. and, as in real life, if you own enough shares, you get to decide who the CEO is. and again, as in real life, if you DON'T own shares, you only get to vote with your feet.

further: why should the sum total of corps hold more ISK than the sum total of players? are there more corps than there are players now? how did that happen??


Ting its such that corps usualy colecting money in to accounts then spending in one big wave, lets say how much yyou need to colect to get nyx bpo and meny corps start duing that to colect them after soem time corps again wil trow out all isk and wil be situation ader way. And meny corps as ours making reinbursments for his meber loses, atleast wie done that i dont know if wil be posible now generate so meny isk from tax to cover it. usualy to reinburse lets say 10 member fleet you need araund 1,2 bilj depends on ship types that means corps need more money than players eny way.

Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:39:00 - [2950]
 

Originally by: Torenc
Originally by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Agree with you, but you need 2 characters to get your isk ....

Then go and try to find a good belting place to rat, then try to farm in belts with 2 characters....

You won't earn the same amount. ou will earn 50% less and remember to change your ship...
Farming in belts with carrier or nyx is not a good idea


not ift wil be not 50% less but wil be araund 20% from curent sanctum farming. even with faction spawns with moslty have ****y loot this days.


Don't know where you live but link me some belts system where we can farm :)
And remember that A LOT of players will have to change their isk earning method and ccp won't add more belts....

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:41:00 - [2951]
 

Originally by: Kabars
Originally by: Iago TwoHeart
DAMN YOU CCP!!!

If you can so easily ignore so many pages of veteran's complaints then what do you care about losing noob blood?


Well said but they don't care as long as the bigger alliances flursh and the smaller ones fail thats what they want i guess. Its almost like certin alliances have Devs in there back pocket.


now and befor in eve was and is sitiation than you have no chois if you are smal allaince you cant hold space by you own. You need go to soem power block for protection and be a pets there is no choise and this pach actualy brings smaler alalince look more for peting than befor. Main income form small allinces is taxes from corporations per members in corp, with usualy goid into a space holding payments, and was berly inaf to cover it.

Kabars
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:44:00 - [2952]
 

Originally by: Torenc
Originally by: Kabars
Originally by: Iago TwoHeart
DAMN YOU CCP!!!

If you can so easily ignore so many pages of veteran's complaints then what do you care about losing noob blood?


Well said but they don't care as long as the bigger alliances flursh and the smaller ones fail thats what they want i guess. Its almost like certin alliances have Devs in there back pocket.


now and befor in eve was and is sitiation than you have no chois if you are smal allaince you cant hold space by you own. You need go to soem power block for protection and be a pets there is no choise and this pach actualy brings smaler alalince look more for peting than befor. Main income form small allinces is taxes from corporations per members in corp, with usualy goid into a space holding payments, and was berly inaf to cover it.


Ok but if you wanna be a pet or rent space the cluster **** of a patch will make it harder for those alliance to get the isk to pay there bills

Civire Dissension
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:45:00 - [2953]
 

Originally by: Danastar
Originally by: Civire Dissension
Edited by: Civire Dissension on 06/04/2011 11:44:34
Originally by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Edited by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit on 06/04/2011 10:05:21
You're wrong man, i'am a stupid carebear and a sanctum gives 500M / hour.

So please use my numbers and recalculate.


I'm a stupid nullseccer and i been running these things since they came out. will you PLEASE come out here and show me wtf i am doing wrong?? best i have EVER done is a 15mill wallet tick, and that was with a faction spawn.

really, who fed you that stuff, and why do you like the flavor so much? better to fertilize the back 40 with it.



just for informaton:

Angel Sanctums/Havens have 1.1/1.2 mil BS

using 1 thanatos, you'll get abt 60-90 mil/h. Depends on how lazy you are and if you have fast access to free anoms

2 thanatoses will get you in 90-120 mil/h range

1 thanny + nyx and you are in 120-150 mil/h range

2 nyxes equals 150-180 mil/h

Good combo is thanny + machariel also, but havent tried it as it requires more efforts and control.

These numbers, again, are for Angel anomalies and with 10% corp tax. Ratting in Pure Blind for instance will get you less isk/h ratio as the BS there have worse bounty.


sounds good. got 2 nyx's i can borrow? and the toons to fly them? we still fall far short of the "500 million an hour" mentioned earlier...
oh, and is our isk/hour income taking into account the expense when, not if, these nyx's get hot-dropped?

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:46:00 - [2954]
 

Originally by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Originally by: Torenc
Originally by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Agree with you, but you need 2 characters to get your isk ....

Then go and try to find a good belting place to rat, then try to farm in belts with 2 characters....

You won't earn the same amount. ou will earn 50% less and remember to change your ship...
Farming in belts with carrier or nyx is not a good idea


not ift wil be not 50% less but wil be araund 20% from curent sanctum farming. even with faction spawns with moslty have ****y loot this days.


Don't know where you live but link me some belts system where we can farm :)
And remember that A LOT of players will have to change their isk earning method and ccp won't add more belts....


and take into acount that ppl loking for easy ways to ern money they wil go to empire farming, that means les ppl in 0.0 and less in fleets leess battles and ader tings wath ccp actuly hoped toget,

I tink only ting wath ccp culd do for 0.0 its leave sanctums alone , but if they wished implement more reflect true sec status than they culd do simply ting, there are 2 ore more ways to do that.
1. sanctums stay in systems how they are but in crease bountys on rats i nsanctums acording true sec.
2. sanctums stay but increase sanctum count in sustme with beter true sec .
3. both version.

eny way no one runing thos smol **** and ccp see that. PPl beter wil go to empire and sefe runing misions then run somting less then sanctum.

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:48:00 - [2955]
 

Originally by: Kabars
Originally by: Torenc
Originally by: Kabars
Originally by: Iago TwoHeart
DAMN YOU CCP!!!

If you can so easily ignore so many pages of veteran's complaints then what do you care about losing noob blood?


Well said but they don't care as long as the bigger alliances flursh and the smaller ones fail thats what they want i guess. Its almost like certin alliances have Devs in there back pocket.


now and befor in eve was and is sitiation than you have no chois if you are smal allaince you cant hold space by you own. You need go to soem power block for protection and be a pets there is no choise and this pach actualy brings smaler alalince look more for peting than befor. Main income form small allinces is taxes from corporations per members in corp, with usualy goid into a space holding payments, and was berly inaf to cover it.


Ok but if you wanna be a pet or rent space the cluster **** of a patch will make it harder for those alliance to get the isk to pay there bills


and that means more taxes on corps more taxes on corps more taxes on members more taxes on mebbers lesss members in 0.0

Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:50:00 - [2956]
 

500M/H was from me and was 100% ironic in response to the most stupid way to calculate isk/H for running anoms...

I could have said 159B/H it would have been the same :)

Anyways, CCP is removing ISK from null sec that is the point...
Whatever people say, yes you cn go rat in belt, try to find ded plexs, go WH, run missions etc....
But they are still removing isk from null sec that's all...
Less isk less pvp, less pvp less buying demand etc etc.. Sell your trita stock in Jita guys in the next 6 months trita will be back at 1.5 isk.

And yes miner will whine....

Kabars
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:53:00 - [2957]
 

You know with 99 pages of b****ing and complaining at the end of the day and patch it will all be the same because CCP does not give a flying **** about its memebers who have been here for years playing the game. With the new "improvements" and " we know whats best " attuide Its all going to boil dow to we will still be playing and thats all they care about is getting that 15 bucks a month and to hell with there complaints or suggestions.

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:54:00 - [2958]
 

Originally by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit
500M/H was from me and was 100% ironic in response to the most stupid way to calculate isk/H for running anoms...

I could have said 159B/H it would have been the same :)

Anyways, CCP is removing ISK from null sec that is the point...
Whatever people say, yes you cn go rat in belt, try to find ded plexs, go WH, run missions etc....
But they are still removing isk from null sec that's all...
Less isk less pvp, less pvp less buying demand etc etc.. Sell your trita stock in Jita guys in the next 6 months trita will be back at 1.5 isk.

And yes miner will whine....


Wil be not just drop off trit biut wil drop all minerals eve megacyte from wat lived miners and ader good minerals that wil make useles even thos hiden belts. That will impact even t2 market, ppl wil be not able buy t2 ships with curent PI POS fuel prices rections to not generating inof money cover everiting so thos wil stay at the same price but ppl will need lat more time to get them.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:55:00 - [2959]
 

So close to 100 pages of wine, come on, work it up guys!

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:56:00 - [2960]
 

Originally by: Kabars
You know with 99 pages of b****ing and complaining at the end of the day and patch it will all be the same because CCP does not give a flying **** about its memebers who have been here for years playing the game. With the new "improvements" and " we know whats best " attuide Its all going to boil dow to we will still be playing and thats all they care about is getting that 15 bucks a month and to hell with there complaints or suggestions.


I tink need make sotming protest agans this pach dercrease conflict count to minimum stop fighting at all just protect space no roming noting until pach not fixed.

Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:59:00 - [2961]
 

Originally by: Kabars
You know with 99 pages of b****ing and complaining at the end of the day and patch it will all be the same because CCP does not give a flying **** about its memebers who have been here for years playing the game. With the new "improvements" and " we know whats best " attuide Its all going to boil dow to we will still be playing and thats all they care about is getting that 15 bucks a month and to hell with there complaints or suggestions.


And ? Even if most of us will keep on playing, i assume a lot of people will cancel 1 alt or leave game.
But it doesn't really matters for CCP as it is just a statistic.

Even it hey loose 1000 accounts directly due to this patch they will earn more money.
Less isk in game means more plex buying to CCP so they won't loose anything.
Removing high anoms in null sec is also a way to fight the bots. The less anoms they have the less isk they have.
So even if good and real players are affected, there is no direct impact to CCP RL wallet so.. They don't care for sure.
But Eve is a game where there uses to be a dialog between players and CCP that's why we are on this topic.
But it seems, that there is a new vision of future that doesn't include dialog.

Red Morbo
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:59:00 - [2962]
 

New t-shirts ready to buy at the eve online shop!
"I went to null sec and all i got was this crappy anom"

Kabars
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:00:00 - [2963]
 

Originally by: Torenc
Originally by: Kabars
You know with 99 pages of b****ing and complaining at the end of the day and patch it will all be the same because CCP does not give a flying **** about its memebers who have been here for years playing the game. With the new "improvements" and " we know whats best " attuide Its all going to boil dow to we will still be playing and thats all they care about is getting that 15 bucks a month and to hell with there complaints or suggestions.


I tink need make sotming protest agans this pach dercrease conflict count to minimum stop fighting at all just protect space no roming noting until pach not fixed.


You must be in one of the alliances that have good space so when this patch drops you only stand to gain by it unlike my self and my small corp were we will just be hamstrung by this ***hat of a patch

Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:02:00 - [2964]
 

Originally by: Red Morbo
New t-shirts ready to buy at the eve online shop!
"I went to null sec and all i got was this crappy anom"


you are my HERO !!!!!!!!!


Anyways what i most regret is:

No CSM point of view, and no CCP response.

Torenc
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:03:00 - [2965]
 

Originally by: Kabars
Originally by: Torenc
Originally by: Kabars
You know with 99 pages of b****ing and complaining at the end of the day and patch it will all be the same because CCP does not give a flying **** about its memebers who have been here for years playing the game. With the new "improvements" and " we know whats best " attuide Its all going to boil dow to we will still be playing and thats all they care about is getting that 15 bucks a month and to hell with there complaints or suggestions.


I tink need make sotming protest agans this pach dercrease conflict count to minimum stop fighting at all just protect space no roming noting until pach not fixed.


You must be in one of the alliances that have good space so when this patch drops you only stand to gain by it unlike my self and my small corp were we will just be hamstrung by this ***hat of a patch


Yes wie are but stil they wil be all the time full so run them wil be verry verry hard conclusion the same.

zxsteel
Gallente
Darkness Of Absolution
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:03:00 - [2966]
 

Like to take this time to get good core feedback on 'CCP' thinks of all this 'GREAT' feedback! MOST! I ever seen in long time! Almost 3k in feedback on topic, of how it should not change! Yet to see "CCP Zymurgist" comment on this topic, of almost 100 pages! I look around a bet and yet to see any time other then walking in stations topic! This topic is HOT, and has hit over 125k in hits! So all I got to say now what will you do not you can't deny you didn't see this topic up front.

So once again I ask 'CCP" staff member's what do you thing of all this feedback!

Danastar
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:03:00 - [2967]
 

Originally by: Civire Dissension
Originally by: Danastar
Originally by: Civire Dissension
Edited by: Civire Dissension on 06/04/2011 11:44:34
Originally by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit
Edited by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit on 06/04/2011 10:05:21
You're wrong man, i'am a stupid carebear and a sanctum gives 500M / hour.

So please use my numbers and recalculate.


I'm a stupid nullseccer and i been running these things since they came out. will you PLEASE come out here and show me wtf i am doing wrong?? best i have EVER done is a 15mill wallet tick, and that was with a faction spawn.

really, who fed you that stuff, and why do you like the flavor so much? better to fertilize the back 40 with it.



just for informaton:

Angel Sanctums/Havens have 1.1/1.2 mil BS

using 1 thanatos, you'll get abt 60-90 mil/h. Depends on how lazy you are and if you have fast access to free anoms

2 thanatoses will get you in 90-120 mil/h range

1 thanny + nyx and you are in 120-150 mil/h range

2 nyxes equals 150-180 mil/h

Good combo is thanny + machariel also, but havent tried it as it requires more efforts and control.

These numbers, again, are for Angel anomalies and with 10% corp tax. Ratting in Pure Blind for instance will get you less isk/h ratio as the BS there have worse bounty.


sounds good. got 2 nyx's i can borrow? and the toons to fly them? we still fall far short of the "500 million an hour" mentioned earlier...
oh, and is our isk/hour income taking into account the expense when, not if, these nyx's get hot-dropped?



yeah - i have 2 nyxes with 2 chars capable of using them :) and no - you can't borrow them :). As i said in my post - it is just for information, so you have better idea how much isk/h you can generate. As for hot dropping - I used these nyxes for realtively short period of time and so far i guess i was lucky. Still, if you know what you are doing, it is reasonable risk. You risk more - you get more. After all - if you are afraid of the big bad wolf, dont go to the forest :)

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:04:00 - [2968]
 

Originally by: Kabars
You must be in one of the alliances that have good space so when this patch drops you only stand to gain by it unlike my self and my small corp were we will just be hamstrung by this ***hat of a patch

Delicious pleb tears.

Red Morbo
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:06:00 - [2969]
 

Come to null sec the future home of budget wars, T1 frigs welcome ;)

Kabars
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:07:00 - [2970]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Kabars
You must be in one of the alliances that have good space so when this patch drops you only stand to gain by it unlike my self and my small corp were we will just be hamstrung by this ***hat of a patch

Delicious pleb tears.


well now IM have taken the long Goon tradition of trolling nice work mate


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