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Vandiilo
Gallente
Full Metal Jacket LLC
Posted - 2011.04.01 17:17:00 - [2161]
 

The rent is too damn high.

Lady Carton
Posted - 2011.04.01 17:25:00 - [2162]
 

Originally by: Simvastatin Montelukast
I tried to read through all 72 pages of this topic.
Did I miss the CSM's input?



seriously? when did we ever see anything from CSM?
this nerf is the most disgusting piece of crap I see from CCP since I began playing/paying EVE - not hearing from its customers is so pleasant, CCP.

BinaryData
Gallente
Segmentum Solar
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.04.01 17:38:00 - [2163]
 

Originally by: Lady Carton
Originally by: Simvastatin Montelukast
I tried to read through all 72 pages of this topic.
Did I miss the CSM's input?



seriously? when did we ever see anything from CSM?
this nerf is the most disgusting piece of crap I see from CCP since I began playing/paying EVE - not hearing from its customers is so pleasant, CCP.



Agreed. I may quit EVE period. The only thing this will achieve is pushing alliances from nullsec to lowsec. I hate low-sec.

For a company who doesn't listen to player input, is a company that is doomed.

gargars
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:04:00 - [2164]
 

Well I am mainly an Empire dweller and am no expert on null sec, however CCP if this change has generated 73 PAGES of concern (to put it mildly) in less than a week, then I would say you might want to postpone it/scrap it or explain it better if the player experts here are in error about what the change is going to do.

Nipps McChesty
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:08:00 - [2165]
 

Edited by: Nipps McChesty on 01/04/2011 18:09:10
This change won't affect me in any way, as my corp's systems are in the somewhat unaffected band, and anoms are just a supplement to my income.

That being said, I really have no clue as to how this change is going to result in the desired outcome listed in Greyscale's blog. This is analogous to announcing changes to help get new players in a BS quicker, but then raising the requirements to train BS to require frigate, cruiser and BC all to level 5. No matter how often I read that blog, I just can't wrap my head around how they expect to get this desired outcome. Are CCP really that clueless about how their own game works?

Liability Insurance
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:17:00 - [2166]
 

So...

Huge swathes of 0.0 become virtually worthless to players. Roamers now have to jump through dozens of completely empty systems to reach where people actually are.

Alliance level finances rely on moongoo- not sanctums. Any alliance that would be willing to go to war for Sanctums is NOT an alliance capable of taking and holding the space with good or even mediocre truesec.

HiSec players and new corps have 0 reason to move to 0.0, which will now be vastly less profitable than low or even high security space. Who wants to move into a desert? The whole thing reeks of "We made an entire expansion to get people to move to nullsec, but now that there are actually people there the system can't handle it! SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING"

All of the sanctums are crammed into a small number of systems, easily susceptible to a few AFK cloakers sitting in system and shutting down an entire alliance worth of players because nobody with half a brain rats with reds in local, even "afk" reds. Sure is increasing the fun of the game, right?

Many players won't be able to afford fleet BS or fancy T2 toys. They'll downgrade to cheaper ships, right? HAHAHA. More like they'll stop playing because a huge part of the fun of the game is gone. Who wants to fly a Stabber after flying a Vagabond? And it isn't an "Everybody is on the same scale now" situation, all of the people with wormhole/DED/broken trusec/whatever missions will keep on flying their pimpmobiles, while all the people that relied on sanctums will either switch to empire missions, flood the other money makers and crash them, or just quit.

DRF areas spawn MASSIVELY improved numbers of Drone Hordes, flooding the game with drone trash and salvage that goes directly into Super production. Just what we need, more supercaps.

Bot usage explodes because who in their right mind actually enjoys running Drone anoms.

CCP Greyscale's model of the sandbox is the model of someone who has never actually played the game.

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:22:00 - [2167]
 

just remember according to CCP this thread is split 50/50 for and against this change... thats bull**** but it lets ya know where CCP's head is on this.

BinaryData
Gallente
Segmentum Solar
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:24:00 - [2168]
 

Originally by: Skaarl
just remember according to CCP this thread is split 50/50 for and against this change... thats bull**** but it lets ya know where CCP's head is on this.


Lol. So true.

Nipps McChesty
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:26:00 - [2169]
 

Originally by: Liability Insurance
CCP Greyscale's model of the sandbox is the model of someone who has never actually played the game.


That right there. Eve is touted as the ultimate sandbox where everything is unscripted and player driven. This change kind of blows that model out of the water. Particularly when the big decisions are made by someone in CCP who's just an outside observer seeing very little of what actually happens in game.

Eve is far too big and complex of a world for anyone that isn't experiencing the actual gameplay (as a player) to be able to really understand the 'big picture'. I don't care if these guys are the hands-on programmers that built the thing. Until they've "lived" in it, they're just noobs.

BinaryData
Gallente
Segmentum Solar
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:31:00 - [2170]
 

Originally by: Nipps McChesty
Originally by: Liability Insurance
CCP Greyscale's model of the sandbox is the model of someone who has never actually played the game.


That right there. Eve is touted as the ultimate sandbox where everything is unscripted and player driven. This change kind of blows that model out of the water. Particularly when the big decisions are made by someone in CCP who's just an outside observer seeing very little of what actually happens in game.

Eve is far too big and complex of a world for anyone that isn't experiencing the actual gameplay (as a player) to be able to really understand the 'big picture'. I don't care if these guys are the hands-on programmers that built the thing. Until they've "lived" in it, they're just noobs.


I agree. But define "lived" in. 2 weeks, a month, 6 months, 2 years? I've been here for about 5 weeks in total, and I love it the way it is. If they implement this "New Feature" it'll ruin everything a lot of people have worked for.

Isn't there a saying;

If it's not broken, don't **** with it? Just a thought for CCP to contemplate..

Endokra
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:37:00 - [2171]
 

Well I remember the promises CCP made for Dominion patch and they ****ed it up completely.
Now you guys will finally ruin nullsec completely.
The common member of small alliances will not be able to afford ship reimbursement.
Straight to the point:
Is there anyone in CCP with just half a brain? Or is it intended to ruin the game finally?
Another complete ****y idea.
Get lost.

Nipps McChesty
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:50:00 - [2172]
 

Originally by: BinaryData
I agree. But define "lived" in. 2 weeks, a month, 6 months, 2 years? I've been here for about 5 weeks in total, and I love it the way it is. If they implement this "New Feature" it'll ruin everything a lot of people have worked for.

Isn't there a saying;

If it's not broken, don't fück with it? Just a thought for CCP to contemplate..


It's hard to define really, as Eve is such a huge, complex world. I know people who've been playing for years and never left high sec. I wouldn't consider them as having any valuable opinion on this matter as they haven't experienced 0.0 firsthand.

That being said, I know newer guys with toons less than 1 year old that have only been in 0.0 for a couple of months that probably have a pretty good idea of the model and whose opinions on this I would value more than the devs. It really depends on the person and their experience.

Most devs and CCP employees get in game, fly around with their GM invincibility superpowers, see what's going on, etc. They're "there" as observers, but not truly a part of the greater experience. Devs don't fight in the wars or to hold their space. They don't have to make money to equip themselves. Their experience of the game is the polar opposite of the players. They're not really the best people to be making this kind of judgement call.

I see CCP interfering like this as the armchair military analyst "experts" that have never served a day of military service in their life, watch CNN 16 hours a day, and seem to have in-depth analyses of all situations and all the solutions to what's happening in Iraq or A-stan.

I SORT of disagree about it not being broken. True sec of a system MUST be taken into account for anoms. I just don't agree with the way they're going about it as it will in no way have their desired outcome. From an outsider's vantage point, their reasoning may make sense. But from the vantage point of someone with actual "boots on the ground" and actual expereience, the current model makes no sense.

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.04.01 18:57:00 - [2173]
 

still against the nerf!

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:12:00 - [2174]
 

for the nerf!

Chr1st0ph3r
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:18:00 - [2175]
 

Wonderful. Kill the one good source of ISK for a PVP pilot living in a small alliance in o.o.

I have one reply to you *****es at CCP. Read my lips. Unsubscribe 3 account this month. That is $60 I will spend on a competitive MMO like. OMG there is a new one releasing in just a few days. $13.90 a month for a premium account, and you do not have to grind #%$^ level-4's to replace your PVP vehicle.

Kiramati
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:24:00 - [2176]
 

Was waiting for CCP to even out 0.0 back to there true sec values.

Think back to the good old days belt ratting and scanning. People managed then people will manage after this change.

An allaince now only looked at moons not really space for there members. Now gets allaince to look back at the drawing broad.

Looking forward for this change.

FYI remember people managed befor ratting in belts. So now back to chaining :D

CorryBasler
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:26:00 - [2177]
 

confirming CCP Grayscale don't know how to listen to any of his customers and will enjoy it when alot of smaller renter allainces move back to high sec because lvl 4 missions will be easier to make isk on then renting decent space.

Helios Xise
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:27:00 - [2178]
 

Edited by: Helios Xise on 01/04/2011 19:29:17
Originally by: gargars
Well I am mainly an Empire dweller and am no expert on null sec, however CCP if this change has generated 73 PAGES of concern (to put it mildly) in less than a week, then I would say you might want to postpone it/scrap it or explain it better if the player experts here are in error about what the change is going to do.


im sure numbers of pages would top 100 easy if ccp wasn't busy deleting every comment with players giving their opinion about where greyscale can put his improvments

but from CCPs point of view i can understand. Lag will be reduced due to ppl not being able to afford 250mio abba for massive fleet fights... seriosly, after reading about their ideas during fanfest it was more in the direction of how to change the players and avoid battles instead of improving that what made this game great.

thanks ccp, ppl will now relay on botting and other unwelcomed ways of generating their money, but ur new anti-bot taskforce needs something to do right?

Xel Ra
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:32:00 - [2179]
 

Originally by: Kiramati
Was waiting for CCP to even out 0.0 back to there true sec values.

Think back to the good old days belt ratting and scanning. People managed then people will manage after this change.

An allaince now only looked at moons not really space for there members. Now gets allaince to look back at the drawing broad.

Looking forward for this change.

FYI remember people managed befor ratting in belts. So now back to chaining :D


"When I was a kid, we walked 10 miles, through the snow, uphill! When we couldn't eat fish, we ate crawdads, and when there weren't enough crawdads, we ate dirt. It was good enough for us, it should be good enough for you goddamn kids. Change is bad!!"

Penny Storm
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:33:00 - [2180]
 

i don´t support this product

gargars
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:34:00 - [2181]
 

Edited by: gargars on 01/04/2011 19:41:50
Originally by: Helios Xise
thanks ccp, ppl will now relay on botting and other unwelcomed ways of generating their money, but ur new anti-bot taskforce needs something to do right?


You mean Burt the janitor? Laughing

mkmin
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:37:00 - [2182]
 

Originally by: Xel Ra
Originally by: Kiramati
Was waiting for CCP to even out 0.0 back to there true sec values.

Think back to the good old days belt ratting and scanning. People managed then people will manage after this change.

An allaince now only looked at moons not really space for there members. Now gets allaince to look back at the drawing broad.

Looking forward for this change.

FYI remember people managed befor ratting in belts. So now back to chaining :D


"When I was a kid, we walked 10 miles, through the snow, uphill! When we couldn't eat fish, we ate crawdads, and when there weren't enough crawdads, we ate dirt. It was good enough for us, it should be good enough for you goddamn kids. Change is bad!!"

Is belt ratting equivalent to eating dirt, or is that what comes after you run out of dirt? Because I'm pretty sure "they'll manage" means "they'll try belt ratting, realize it's somehow even less fun than mining, move to highsec and realize there's nothing to work for there, then quit the game."

Dharh
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:41:00 - [2183]
 

Originally by: REDRUM44
So much for your sandbox theroy on eve,ya know your next trailer might want to add "your playing in our sandbox if you start to succeed in any way we will change and nerf the game to make it impossible" Mad

This has nothing to do with the 'sandbox' and everything to do with balance and reality. I wish CCP had already done an emergency dev blog to explain themselves. But I still support this move as 1 of many changes to be made in sov to make it dynamic and thriving again.

Sannye
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:42:00 - [2184]
 

I wonder if CCP will ever figure out, that even though we players MAY appear to be paid betatesters, we are NOT employees of CCP and we do NOT want to work our a##'s off for hours and hours, to get 2 min of fun.

It's a GAME for your customors, and it should be a WORK for you, CCP.

You got it the other way around! (should have linked to the Fanfestival here - but... you saw it yourself...)


Nipps McChesty
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:47:00 - [2185]
 

Originally by: Kiramati
Think back to the good old days belt ratting and scanning. People managed then people will manage after this change.


In the old days, you could also belt rat or scan for hours ALONE across multiple systems rarely seeing anyone. It was a viable source of income, and a good one at that.

Since Dominion and the new sov system, nullsec is populated in a way it never was before. Some null systems have denser population than Empire now. You find yourself limited to a couple of systems, and having to share / compete for those belts and signatures with multiple other people.

Your argument is valid in the pre-Dominion context, but completely off in the current environment.

Panda Name
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.04.01 19:51:00 - [2186]
 

i'm glad that these changes are still being implemented. it means that ccp was smart enough to see this thread for what it is: a bunch of NC bears crying.

Nipps McChesty
Posted - 2011.04.01 20:00:00 - [2187]
 

Originally by: Panda Name
i'm glad that these changes are still being implemented. it means that ccp was smart enough to see this thread for what it is: a bunch of NC bears crying.


It's funny, but so far, it seems the only people I've seen in this thread that are for the changes "nerfing the NC carebears" are either Empire-dwellers who'd love nothing more but to be in 0.0 but don't have the skills / ability / connections, or the "1337 PvPers" who aren't able to actually hold their own space without being handed the spanking of a lifetime by one of the big power blocks.

Vortx JR
Posted - 2011.04.01 20:09:00 - [2188]
 

Well, let's hope it's 1st april Joke....

Just a quote from the fanfest :

" Empty Space is boring " well remove the isk from space and you'll have a LOT of empty space. Then you'll go for a boring game.
Look at the Drone Region really boring.

Of course giving more " high end " anom to a few system is really a good idea.
As you said you have 1 or 2 system like that by area, so you will add 2 sanctums / or whatever called and remove 200 by area ?
It's just an isk nerf nothing else, not a gameplay improvment.

I can't wait till next fan fest to see the " whine on forums graphic " the year starts preally well on that side .

Panda Name
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.04.01 20:15:00 - [2189]
 

Originally by: Nipps McChesty
Originally by: Panda Name
i'm glad that these changes are still being implemented. it means that ccp was smart enough to see this thread for what it is: a bunch of NC bears crying.


It's funny, but so far, it seems the only people I've seen in this thread that are for the changes "nerfing the NC carebears" are either Empire-dwellers who'd love nothing more but to be in 0.0 but don't have the skills / ability / connections, or the "1337 PvPers" who aren't able to actually hold their own space without being handed the spanking of a lifetime by one of the big power blocks.


NC poster, given that you are a "huge powerblock," why are you even concerned? oh wait, because space will be prioritized, and you will probably lose your blue status, ejecting you from said powerblock. LOLzZZzzz.

Nipps McChesty
Posted - 2011.04.01 20:27:00 - [2190]
 

Originally by: Panda Name
NC poster, given that you are a "huge powerblock," why are you even concerned? oh wait, because space will be prioritized, and you will probably lose your blue status, ejecting you from said powerblock. LOLzZZzzz.


As I said in my earlier posts, these changes will have absolutely no effect on me or any of my toons. I'm more concerned about the effects this will have to the overall health of the game.


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