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Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.01 05:02:00 - [2101]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lost'In'Space
How long before the sites get re-spawned?


The dev blog didn't mention any changes in spawn timers. You did read it right?

-Liang


I know nothing of the current spawn timers, that was my question.

Geralden
Posted - 2011.04.01 05:15:00 - [2102]
 

Dont respond to anything -liang writes.

He used to be a wellrenowned poster, but he changed to a bitter personal attacking troll, especially in this thread.

Just ignore all hist posts, then he will proberly crawl beneath a bridge somewhere again.

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.01 05:23:00 - [2103]
 

Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 01/04/2011 05:28:17
Originally by: Geralden
Dont respond to anything -liang writes.

He used to be a wellrenowned poster, but he changed to a bitter personal attacking troll, especially in this thread.

Just ignore all hist posts, then he will proberly crawl beneath a bridge somewhere again.


He may be trolling, but I don't see anyone actually respond with a reason. All I see is people *****ing that they are not able to make a lot of isks and field expensive things just because they're in 0.0, and whine just as ccp reduce the isk making ability.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.01 05:30:00 - [2104]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lost'In'Space
How long before the sites get re-spawned?


The dev blog didn't mention any changes in spawn timers. You did read it right?

-Liang


I know nothing of the current spawn timers, that was my question.


It takes approximately 5 minutes so long as no one remains in an anomaly currently. Though lag can delay that on heavily trafficked systems.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.04.01 05:30:00 - [2105]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/04/2011 05:35:39

Originally by: Lost'In'Space

He may be trolling



He isnt, people just dont know what 'trolling' means anymore. For some, apparently having a different opinion and daring to voice it (or even just stating mere facts they dont like to hear) constitutes trolling.

If anything, the attacks directed at him resemble trolling. They arent really trolling either though, as they arent driven by a trolls agenda, but simply by overwhelming blind rage directed at anything that opposes their opinion (or sense of entitlement if you want to put it that way).

Frankly, I blame it on the parenting these days and the anonymity of the internet. People just arent used to a civilized face-to-face discussion anymore, so the tone tends to get rough on the forums.

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.01 05:57:00 - [2106]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/04/2011 05:35:39

Originally by: Lost'In'Space

He may be trolling



He isnt...


I figured, but I do not know just how bad/good these changes are because I do not know how fast and how much isks each site would give out. I only know what someone told me, that farming the anomalies can give more than 80 mill per hour.

I do agree with you there, some people just have sense of entitlement. I don't know, maybe they think 1000 v 1000 is the end game to be enjoyed in this game.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.04.01 06:03:00 - [2107]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/04/2011 05:35:39

Originally by: Lost'In'Space

He may be trolling



He isnt...


I figured, but I do not know just how bad/good these changes are because I do not know how fast and how much isks each site would give out. I only know what someone told me, that farming the anomalies can give more than 80 mill per hour.

I do agree with you there, some people just have sense of entitlement. I don't know, maybe they think 1000 v 1000 is the end game to be enjoyed in this game.

No... most of his posts begin with "You deserve anything bad that happens to you" "you are so stupid you don't deserve to live" "I hope you die in traffic" and other such personal insults. There's a lot of "nuh-uh" quality arguments, and general douchebaggery. Troll is a troll, being defended by what apparently must be a troll too. Even if the troll does say something legitimate it will be impossible to identify out of the mess spewing out.

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.01 06:33:00 - [2108]
 

So, we've established that currently, anoms are netting ~45m-alot ISK/hr.
We've established that a lot of people are angry about them making ~10m-20m ISK/hr.

I'll ask this. Seeing as how the really expensive stuff is all moongoo paid, and most of the current conflict in Eve involves Drakes and sh*tfit Maels, what exactly are you lot doing with all this ISK now?

I don't really see any 'big projects' going on. Just sitting there looking pretty in your wallet?

Khadann
Caldari
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.04.01 06:50:00 - [2109]
 

So it was not a CCP first april joke after all?

OMFG, we're not even sure if we can afford these changes... back to empire?

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.01 06:54:00 - [2110]
 

Originally by: Erichk Knaar
So, we've established that currently, anoms are netting ~45m-alot ISK/hr.
We've established that a lot of people are angry about them making ~10m-20m ISK/hr.

I'll ask this. Seeing as how the really expensive stuff is all moongoo paid, and most of the current conflict in Eve involves Drakes and sh*tfit Maels, what exactly are you lot doing with all this ISK now?

I don't really see any 'big projects' going on. Just sitting there looking pretty in your wallet?


ISK always sits in people's wallets anymore. There's some interesting psychology that the richer a lot of people are, the more money they feel they need to be financially secure.

The Moon Goo is just a wealth concentrator; the ISK that people use to buy Moon Goo off of the moon owners comes from sites like Sanctums and missions. Without an ISK faucet, there aren't super-alliances with super-wallets.

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.01 06:59:00 - [2111]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion


ISK always sits in people's wallets anymore. There's some interesting psychology that the richer a lot of people are, the more money they feel they need to be financially secure.

The Moon Goo is just a wealth concentrator; the ISK that people use to buy Moon Goo off of the moon owners comes from sites like Sanctums and missions. Without an ISK faucet, there aren't super-alliances with super-wallets.


So sort of like, the point of this nerf then?

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.01 07:16:00 - [2112]
 

I am against the change, but i'm interested in this.. Why would people who run sanctums buy moon goo? I know a >6 years veteran eve player who does no PVE of any sort for at least 2 years. He lives off the market and producing goods, and consuming moon goo..

Cpl Punnishment
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.04.01 07:32:00 - [2113]
 

I would have to say that I am against it as well.

Generally speaking, while its all well and good to have nice moons for the alliance to use, its the anoms that fill the wallets of the average alliance joe out in SOV space. This allows ppl to buy T2 ships and other nice things to die in a fire. Anoms are like an Alliance's Equal Opportunity Employer. From noobs in Drakes to Pimped out T3s, all have a chance to make enough money to burn ships in PVP or some other LAGfest.

If Anoms take a good hit, then there is less of an incentive to live in SOV space.


El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.01 07:34:00 - [2114]
 

Originally by: Erichk Knaar
So, we've established that currently, anoms are netting ~45m-alot ISK/hr.
We've established that a lot of people are angry about them making ~10m-20m ISK/hr.

I'll ask this. Seeing as how the really expensive stuff is all moongoo paid, and most of the current conflict in Eve involves Drakes and sh*tfit Maels, what exactly are you lot doing with all this ISK now?

I don't really see any 'big projects' going on. Just sitting there looking pretty in your wallet?


Moon Goo income seldom filters down to members of an alliance, it is generally used by the elites of any alliance. With many ceos cutting a slice off the top for themselves. Thus the average individual still needs the high income to replace their PVP ships in fleet actions. While many alliances offer discounts they do not generally offer free ships with the exception of just a handful of alliances. Thus this will have the opposite effect, as the individuals cannot afford the required ships they'll spend more time making it up or just decide not to pvp. That's what is wrong in the OP premise.

You could nerf moon goo and leave the anomalies alone and folks could still fight, it would only affect the rate at which supercapitals are replaced not the run of the mill ships. That's why its a bit puzzling they'd take the route they plan to. By removing the main source of subcaps they'll reduce conflict not increase it.

Michael McDonald
Posted - 2011.04.01 07:37:00 - [2115]
 

If CCP makes the areas fought for lame, then we might take up our new positions in High Sec looking for noobs to take out our aggression on. Its hard to maintian interest in a new game if you are constantly loosing your stuff to other ppl. Something like a 23/7 365 Hulkageddon soul crusher.

Want to be heard? Start messing with someones RL cash cow.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.04.01 08:27:00 - [2116]
 

Originally by: Dharh

This change can only be good. Anyone who thinks that low quality null sec should be equally as profitable as high quality null sec is crazy.


Most people dont argue that. The problems are lvl4.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.01 08:45:00 - [2117]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Dharh

This change can only be good. Anyone who thinks that low quality null sec should be equally as profitable as high quality null sec is crazy.


Most people dont argue that. The problems are lvl4.


The problems are not Level 4s. Nerfing never helps games.

Its sad that CCP has entered that cycle, but its the death cycle of any game. Once the only expansions you have are content that isn't used by the majority (PI, FW, WH etc), fluff (new graphics, new sounds etc), or nerfs a game has entered its death spiral. Some go fast and some slowly ride into oblivion.

daremo shirnai
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.01 08:48:00 - [2118]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
Moon Goo income seldom filters down to members of an alliance, it is generally used by the elites of any alliance. With many ceos cutting a slice off the top for themselves. Thus the average individual still needs the high income to replace their PVP ships in fleet actions. While many alliances offer discounts they do not generally offer free ships with the exception of just a handful of alliances. Thus this will have the opposite effect, as the individuals cannot afford the required ships they'll spend more time making it up or just decide not to pvp. That's what is wrong in the OP premise.


So you're saying moongoo will fall in the hands of those who pay for their member's pvp ships?

Cool.

Ortenz Brick
Posted - 2011.04.01 09:17:00 - [2119]
 

Originally by: Jaggins
Bad move.

Leave the crappy systems how they are, and buff rewards in the low truesec systems. That way you support alliances living in poor space while giving a reason for conflict.

Most of us hate ratting, we just do it to buy ships for PVP. Please don't make that harder.


This is why im not playing as much as i want to. Ideally id play mostly pvp, and a little pve. But how eve is set up, i have to grind pve for so long to pvp. Which would be sort of ok if pve wasnt such a repetitive bore. So i resigned myself to just playing a couple days a month and im asking myself if its worth to keep subbing when i have to work so hard to be able to do the thing i enjoy doing (pvp).

I have alot less experience in eve than probably most people here, so that will be my comment for this.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.01 09:20:00 - [2120]
 

Originally by: daremo shirnai
Originally by: El'Niaga
Moon Goo income seldom filters down to members of an alliance, it is generally used by the elites of any alliance. With many ceos cutting a slice off the top for themselves. Thus the average individual still needs the high income to replace their PVP ships in fleet actions. While many alliances offer discounts they do not generally offer free ships with the exception of just a handful of alliances. Thus this will have the opposite effect, as the individuals cannot afford the required ships they'll spend more time making it up or just decide not to pvp. That's what is wrong in the OP premise.


So you're saying moongoo will fall in the hands of those who pay for their member's pvp ships?

Cool.


No it will go where it always has, primarily to the elite in the alliances, not the average grunt that flies, it will go to the executors and his friends like it always has. Trickle down economics do not work.

Sarina Rhoda
Posted - 2011.04.01 09:48:00 - [2121]
 

Edited by: Sarina Rhoda on 01/04/2011 09:51:48
Originally by: Ortenz Brick
Originally by: Jaggins
Bad move.

Leave the crappy systems how they are, and buff rewards in the low truesec systems. That way you support alliances living in poor space while giving a reason for conflict.

Most of us hate ratting, we just do it to buy ships for PVP. Please don't make that harder.


This is why im not playing as much as i want to. Ideally id play mostly pvp, and a little pve. But how eve is set up, i have to grind pve for so long to pvp. Which would be sort of ok if pve wasnít such a repetitive bore. So i resigned myself to just playing a couple days a month and im asking myself if its worth to keep subbing when i have to work so hard to be able to do the thing i enjoy doing (pvp).

I have alot less experience in eve than probably most people here, so that will be my comment for this.


But imho isnít that exactly what makes eve pvp so good ? the fact that there is so much at risk. Thatís at least what made eve pvp stand out for me, the fact that when i risk my ship Iím risking hours worth of time and investment. Thatís what gets my blood pumping at least :P
If I could replace all pvp losses within 20mins worth of bearing i don't think pvp would have the same pull factor for me.

Also on the subject of moon-goo. Couldn't you argue then that by nerfing individuals incomes alliances that want to keep a large well stocked member base will need to shed the moon-goo profits down the ranks.
Why should an alliance be able to hoard all that iskies without having to trickle it down to support its lower members.
The alliance that my main is in atm make very little from moon-goo, but what we do make goes towards reimbursing logistics and HIC losses on ctas. It works beautifully :)

(I no that is not he point of these changes at all but I think its an interesting concept.)

edited - grammar

Sarina Rhoda
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:07:00 - [2122]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Dharh

This change can only be good. Anyone who thinks that low quality null sec should be equally as profitable as high quality null sec is crazy.


Most people dont argue that. The problems are lvl4.


The problems are not Level 4s. Nerfing never helps games.

Its sad that CCP has entered that cycle, but its the death cycle of any game. Once the only expansions you have are content that isn't used by the majority (PI, FW, WH etc), fluff (new graphics, new sounds etc), or nerfs a game has entered its death spiral. Some go fast and some slowly ride into oblivion.


Just thought i would point out this isn't strickly true. If you don't nerf i.e. only buff, you end up with power creep which has got a whole host of its own issues. What you said is true if you were to ONLY nerf.
In order to create balence you need an even spread of nerfing and buffing.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:20:00 - [2123]
 

Originally by: Erichk Knaar
So, we've established that currently, anoms are netting ~45m-alot ISK/hr.
We've established that a lot of people are angry about them making ~10m-20m ISK/hr.

I'll ask this. Seeing as how the really expensive stuff is all moongoo paid, and most of the current conflict in Eve involves Drakes and sh*tfit Maels, what exactly are you lot doing with all this ISK now?

I don't really see any 'big projects' going on. Just sitting there looking pretty in your wallet?


Anoms earn 45m/hour? We have established anoms earn 150m/hour. If you're going to make nonsense up at least make something up to promote your pointless cause.

Building Titans and MS are what? Good to know the ISK used to buy and build them are in alliance leaders wallets. Next time you see a fleet of super caps remind yourself they're not there, the money was never used.

Liang and this nub are the definition of trolls. By picking some random numbers, false statements and making personal attacks they are not here to discuss anything, they're just here to antagonise.

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:24:00 - [2124]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Anoms earn 45m/hour? We have established anoms earn 150m/hour. If you're going to make nonsense up at least make something up to promote your pointless cause.


If that is sarcasm, then what is the right number for farming anoms in fully upgraded system?

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:24:00 - [2125]
 

Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Dharh

This change can only be good. Anyone who thinks that low quality null sec should be equally as profitable as high quality null sec is crazy.


Most people dont argue that. The problems are lvl4.


The problems are not Level 4s. Nerfing never helps games.

Its sad that CCP has entered that cycle, but its the death cycle of any game. Once the only expansions you have are content that isn't used by the majority (PI, FW, WH etc), fluff (new graphics, new sounds etc), or nerfs a game has entered its death spiral. Some go fast and some slowly ride into oblivion.


Just thought i would point out this isn't strickly true. If you don't nerf i.e. only buff, you end up with power creep which has got a whole host of its own issues. What you said is true if you were to ONLY nerf.
In order to create balence you need an even spread of nerfing and buffing.


When's the last time they buffed something you cared about?

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:26:00 - [2126]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Erichk Knaar
So, we've established that currently, anoms are netting ~45m-alot ISK/hr.
We've established that a lot of people are angry about them making ~10m-20m ISK/hr.

I'll ask this. Seeing as how the really expensive stuff is all moongoo paid, and most of the current conflict in Eve involves Drakes and sh*tfit Maels, what exactly are you lot doing with all this ISK now?

I don't really see any 'big projects' going on. Just sitting there looking pretty in your wallet?


Anoms earn 45m/hour? We have established anoms earn 150m/hour. If you're going to make nonsense up at least make something up to promote your pointless cause.

Building Titans and MS are what? Good to know the ISK used to buy and build them are in alliance leaders wallets. Next time you see a fleet of super caps remind yourself they're not there, the money was never used.

Liang and this nub are the definition of trolls. By picking some random numbers, false statements and making personal attacks they are not here to discuss anything, they're just here to antagonise.


Sorry, the only ones who manage to pull off 150m/h witha anomalies are those who run with two or three carriers, or two carriers and one T3, or one super... you catch my drift.

If your average grunt can pull 60m/h, then he's doing VERY nice.

Sarina Rhoda
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:55:00 - [2127]
 

Edited by: Sarina Rhoda on 01/04/2011 10:57:20
Edited by: Sarina Rhoda on 01/04/2011 10:56:02
Originally by: El'Niaga
When's the last time they buffed something you cared about?


Well ones that come immediately to mind are the blanket minmater dps buff, rocket buff, salvaging buff with the noctis, and the epic null sec buff that is static anoms.

Originally by: Renan Ruivo

Sorry, the only ones who manage to pull off 150m/h witha anomalies are those who run with two or three carriers, or two carriers and one T3, or one super... you catch my drift.

If your average grunt can pull 60m/h, then he's doing VERY nice.


45m an hour per toon is actually quite a realistic figure i think for your average alliance grunt. I used to farm sanctums up in catch dual boxing a t2 fitted with max skills ishtar and geddon.

Both toons combined i used to make 100m/hr. My biggest isk bounty cycle i believe was 18.5m on each toon so 37m per 20mins which = 111m/hr but that was only if i was really focused on what i was doing.

I spent ages trying different ships/fittings but short of high isk pimping / using carrier + faction bs i could not get my IPH up any higher.

edited - messed up the quote :(

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.04.01 10:57:00 - [2128]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: Super Whopper
Anoms earn 45m/hour? We have established anoms earn 150m/hour. If you're going to make nonsense up at least make something up to promote your pointless cause.


If that is sarcasm, then what is the right number for farming anoms in fully upgraded system?


I'd say 30m is about average. 45 Million is possible but you're looking at expensive ships with even more expensive fittings.

When an arbitrary number like 45 is used it doesn't mean they are talking about the average person, they're talking about billions in fittings and faction or T2 BS, or T3.

I have seen people flying Navy Ravens with 2b in fittings turn into pretty KM's because they got caught by hostiles, so, the average player isn't going to sit in an anom with billions in fittings, they'd rather do that in Motsu or Dodixie.

Originally by: Renan Ruivo
Sorry, the only ones who manage to pull off 150m/h witha anomalies are those who run with two or three carriers, or two carriers and one T3, or one super... you catch my drift.

If your average grunt can pull 60m/h, then he's doing VERY nice.


Sarcasm - Brittanica

150 Million ISK per hour with carriers? More like 10 Zealots.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.04.01 11:01:00 - [2129]
 

Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
45m an hour per toon is actually quite a realistic figure i think for your average alliance grunt. I used to farm sanctums up in catch dual boxing a t2 fitted with max skills ishtar and geddon.

Both toons combined i used to make 100m/hr. My biggest isk bounty cycle i believe was 18.5m on each toon so 37m per 20mins which = 111m/hr but that was only if i was really focused on what i was doing.

I spent ages trying different ships/fittings but short of high isk pimping / using carrier + faction bs i could not get my IPH up any higher.

edited - messed up the quote :(



That 18.5 you got was including an expensive faction rat you got.

I have lived in Catch and you're lying.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.04.01 11:09:00 - [2130]
 

Quote:

Anoms are like an Alliance's Equal Opportunity Employer



I think this is exactly what CCP does not want. A "commie EvE" was never their plan, nor Welfare Ships.
I have played enough failed PvP MMOs like Warhammer Online to see what happens with such setup.


Quote:

This is why im not playing as much as i want to. Ideally id play mostly pvp, and a little pve. But how eve is set up, i have to grind pve for so long to pvp



As per the above, EvE is known because kills sting. If they didn't we'd have "FFA PvP" which works for 6 months then the game tanks.

In other MMOs I played, surviving was so pointless that we moved our bands by mass suiciding to respawn closer to the action.
Ofc this immediately kills players retention, because whatever you do, there's no difference. No difference leads to no taste. No taste leads to waiting for next MMO to jump off.


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