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Claire Auscent
Posted - 2011.03.25 22:53:00 - [181]
 

Why must there be a nerf to the majority of 0.0? It seems better (and I'm sure someone posted it above) to leave things the way they are with anoms and only boost the >-.5 systems to make them worth fighting over. Move the techgoo if you must, but don't go messing with individual's chances at earning ISK outside of superfun(tm) missions.

This is terribad CCP. You can do better.

gutten
Wrecking Shots
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.03.25 22:55:00 - [182]
 

The answer to all of our problems with this game.....http://www.swtor.com/...thats what im going to be doing... sorry CP tired of wasting time taking something over, upgrading systems, spending countless hours trying to improve stuff for my corp for it to be made worthless in one patch.....
TBH its very simple. Lone players play for themselves, not for there corporations or alliances. Sure we all have good people who will help out by giving a little isk but in the end players will not rat hours to support there corps, they will rat to give themselves isk and that is all. most players in this game freak over 10% tax. ATM Allainces make isk from 1 thing, moongoo.....A lone 200 man corp wanting to pvp and have some small ship replacement say a 15% for incentive, be able to drop towers, claim sov, lose sov, reclaim sov.....run staging towers ect.. will need at least 5 to 6 bil per month of steady income......how many corps do you know of that can get that from tax and still pvp?

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.03.25 22:58:00 - [183]
 

I have a question

Is everyone upset because 14 months ago CCP gave everyone an isk faucet and now theyre putting a flow meter on it?

I mean if you want, we could go back to the time when there were no sov upgrades, how would you like that?

That being said, I dont think these changes are going to have the effect CCP intends, as I know for a fact that large powerblocks couldnt care less if their members are able to make isk or not.

Galerak
Posted - 2011.03.25 22:59:00 - [184]
 

This is the best you guys could come up with? I can understand wanting to make some space more valuable than other space in null sec and thus generate competition. First of all you acknowledge that these changes will only make larger coalitions 'marginally less stable'. If your goal is for a marginal change perhaps that is the first and foremost issue. Secondly the logic that is being used to arrive at that conclusion is ridiculous and way off base. 1 Nobody is going to face off against the big power blocks over a handful of systems with anomalies that are actually worth the ammo cost. 2 Even if renters/new alliances wanted to wage war against the big bad alliances of 0.0 these changes will make it less of a possibility due to the disparity of options for income generation among multiple corps. You're cutting the legs out from under the corps and alliances that are just venturing into null sec.

Does CCP really expect that taking away sources of income from the fledgling alliances and giving it to the superpowers is going to catalyze some kind of change in 0.0?

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.03.25 22:59:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 25/03/2011 23:06:22
There is some merit to your logic however.

"0.0 to -0.2 systems won't get any high-end sites after the change"

70% off null sec is like . They will become usless , it should spawn at least 1X Haven.


Tactalan
Posted - 2011.03.25 22:59:00 - [186]
 

Congratulations, you've just completely ****ed up a load of our alliance's long term plans. A totally clueless nerf yet again.

Seraphina Amaranth
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:00:00 - [187]
 

Cautiously support.

Keep iterating though - nullsec *pilots* still need a decent source of income, even if the alliances still have moons.

stupid monkey
Caldari
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:01:00 - [188]
 

ok... so now that space is worthless there is no point in bothering to invest in it...

so..

WTS - iHUBs, SOV upgrades (all types 1-5), pos mods, those outpost upgrades I got waiting in high sec to be moved to 0.0 etc etc

oh and while im at it...

WTS - 2 35-40mill sp pvp chars and one 10mill sp indy char

and...

WTB - copy of BF3


Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:03:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Sigras
I have a question

Is everyone upset because 14 months ago CCP gave everyone an isk faucet and now theyre putting a flow meter on it?

I mean if you want, we could go back to the time when there were no sov upgrades, how would you like that?



This is how I view the change and whines.

Quote:

That being said, I dont think these changes are going to have the effect CCP intends, as I know for a fact that large powerblocks couldnt care less if their members are able to make isk or not.


I've seen more than one war in 0.0 started over a couple of good ratting systems.

-Liang

Querns
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:05:00 - [190]
 

Reposting this on new page: http://pastebin.com/nejK4smN (the percentage of systems in a region which are unaffected or improved by the change) and asking a question to anyone who knows:

Will regions with broken truesec like Fountain and Delve use their broken truesec value to determine anom quality, or will it fall back on system truesec?

Venus Gospel
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:08:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Karl Shade
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto

Not every alliance owns a whole region, you know. Some of us don't have another system over we can go.


So take it.


And how, precisely, do you propose a small alliance is supposed to do this when the space around them is held by much larger alliances with mutual defence pacts? A 400 man alliance against 5000 or more? 'So if you can't fight well enough, leave!' I hear you say. But it's not simply a question of skill. As it stands now with reinforce timers and supercaps 0.0 is a numbers game as much as a skill one. And smaller alliances simply don't have the numbers to take on allainces 10 times their size solo, one's who can muster dozens of supercapitals. The defending, larger, alliance will know exactly when their system comes out of reinforce, and even if then entirety of the smaller alliance turns up and only 1/5th of the larger they'll still be outnumbered 2-1. It's a no-win situation.

If this change goes through a lot of small alliances will be forced to leave 0.0 altogether. It's not going to make combat more dynamic, it's simply going to drive out all the smaller alliances and reduce 0.0 to a wasteland where only thousand plus member alliances can suceeed. That won't improve 0.0. It'll cripple it. 0.0 will become a series of periodic clashes between massive alliances, and nothing in between.

100% against this change.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:09:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 25/03/2011 23:09:17
Oh and another problem, AFK cloakers.

Now whines will be X10 , prepare for it.

YOU SHOULD REMAKE MOON MINING !!!!!!! This is where the real problem is.

Pax Ratlin
Gallente
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:09:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Pax Ratlin on 25/03/2011 23:09:18
Originally by: Querns
Reposting this on new page: http://pastebin.com/nejK4smN (the percentage of systems in a region which are unaffected or improved by the change) and asking a question to anyone who knows:

Will regions with broken truesec like Fountain and Delve use their broken truesec value to determine anom quality, or will it fall back on system truesec?


Nice but what percentage of regions will have more adversely effected systems rather than positively. Looking at Vale three times more systems will lose sanctums and havens than gain them.

Astomichi
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:09:00 - [194]
 

Way to go CCP. Cut off isk for normal humans, do nothing against the hordes of belt-ratting bots. Are you trying to encourage people to turn to macros?

Mylor Torlone
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:10:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

I've seen more than one war in 0.0 started over a couple of good ratting systems.

-Liang


No, you haven't.

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:10:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 25/03/2011 23:11:25
Originally by: Sigras
I have a question

Is everyone upset because 14 months ago CCP gave everyone an isk faucet and now theyre putting a flow meter on it?

I mean if you want, we could go back to the time when there were no sov upgrades, how would you like that?

That being said, I dont think these changes are going to have the effect CCP intends, as I know for a fact that large powerblocks couldnt care less if their members are able to make isk or not.


That's precisely the reason why so many folk are ticked off.

ArrowThe large alliances make most of their ISK from moon goo, which CCP apparently thinks is perfectly balanced and working as intended if their comments so far at Fanfest are any guide. Individual pilots used to make their ISK from belt ratting or from hopping back into Empire to grind missions; Dominion changes simply allowed pilots to fund their PvP habit in nullsec.

ArrowLower-tier anomalies, which is basically anything below a Haven/Drone Patrol, are basically worthless. The mere fact that someone at CCP thinks a pilot would willingly run them, or that they can support a nullsec pilot, is downright frightening. In addition, by removing Havens and Sanctums from over half of nullsec, CCP has made the current military upgrades installed in those systems, which cost billions of ISK in aggregate and are a complete pain to install since they require a regular freighter to haul, worthless overnight.

ArrowNullsec has a higher population now than it did prior to Dominion; there aren't enough belts for those pilots to rat in, so those pilots will have to disperse or start mission-grinding in Empire.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:11:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Mylor Torlone
Originally by: Liang Nuren

I've seen more than one war in 0.0 started over a couple of good ratting systems.

-Liang


No, you haven't.


Yes... I really have. :)

-Liang

Querns
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:12:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Pax Ratlin
Edited by: Pax Ratlin on 25/03/2011 23:09:18
Originally by: Querns
Reposting this on new page: http://pastebin.com/nejK4smN (the percentage of systems in a region which are unaffected or improved by the change) and asking a question to anyone who knows:

Will regions with broken truesec like Fountain and Delve use their broken truesec value to determine anom quality, or will it fall back on system truesec?


Nice but what percentage of regions will have more adversely effected systems rather than positively. Looking at Vale three times more systems will lose sanctums and havens than gain them.


Just take the percentage and subtract it from 100. In Vale of the Silent, 11% of the systems aren't being nerfed, so 89% of the systems in Vale are being nerfed.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:13:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Venus Gospel
If this change goes through a lot of small alliances will be forced to leave 0.0 altogether.


Small alliances have always been in 0.0 - even before Dominion. They'll be there after this change too.

-Liang

Ravora
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:13:00 - [200]
 

THIS IS THE F***ING WORST IDEA CCP EVER HAD!!!!!

If this gets real, i'll quit all my accounts... and 'll not be the only one -.-

Stefan Sidor
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:13:00 - [201]
 

Edited by: Stefan Sidor on 25/03/2011 23:15:21
Edited by: Stefan Sidor on 25/03/2011 23:14:34
Edited by: Stefan Sidor on 25/03/2011 23:13:00
CCP must be joking. Did they ever played there own game?

>Small alliances have always been in 0.0 -
>even before Dominion. They'll be there after this >change too.
No they will leave, anos are their only income.

Aphatasis
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:14:00 - [202]
 

Expected consequences

* Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space
* In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals
* Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec
* Coalitions will be marginally less stable
* Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places)

Nothing of this will realy happen!
1. Who should try to get better space if there is NO BETTER SPACE that's conquerable by alliances that just have the option to have crappy space or no space!
2. Guys @ CCP: Do u realy know about the ways conflicts will come up in eve ? Better True Sec space is the last think ANY alliance is setting as priority!
3. There is only one way to get into Nullsec as a "newer Alliance": Beeing PET of anyone!
4. Do u realy think any coaltion is giving a **** about the ways there member are carebearing?
5. Stagingsystems will be selected by strategic location and not by TrueSec!

Sry CCP but you make EVE atm not to more Sandbox! You don't get it was is needed to prevent EVE from becoming a stable system of two or maybe at least three powerblock and a happy happy fluffy carebearland what Hello Kitty is about!

Getting more and more disappointed about the ways EVE go!

Why don't just try to make things like this:
http://i.imgur.com/kfypF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Dw9pa.jpg
All will go well! You loose about 5k-6k Subscriptions but i'm sure at least every third one in one of the two giant powerblocks will add an additional account to get a seperated character just for looting and salvaging!

Mylor Torlone
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:14:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Mylor Torlone
Originally by: Liang Nuren

I've seen more than one war in 0.0 started over a couple of good ratting systems.

-Liang


No, you haven't.


Yes... I really have. :)

-Liang


Doubt it. Even if you have, it just proves there are clueless people out there with misplaced priorities.

You just like getting attention by disagreeing with common sense.

MadEyeBunny
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:15:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Venus Gospel
If this change goes through a lot of small alliances will be forced to leave 0.0 altogether.


Small alliances have always been in 0.0 - even before Dominion. They'll be there after this change too.

-Liang


Yes in NPC 0.0

Most of the little ally won't be able anymor to pay the SOV-Bills -.-

Woodiex3
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:15:00 - [205]
 

Lol wonder which ccp employee will get a bonus after this change when logins drop by x%

salvaging in the latest patch makes it almost pointless

this change is to force ppl back to high sec not to get ppl into 0.0.

amount of character sales about to rise.

GL trying to convince ppl to make 7mil/tick in 0.0 compared to 25mil/tick in high sec




Pax Ratlin
Gallente
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:17:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Querns
Originally by: Pax Ratlin
Edited by: Pax Ratlin on 25/03/2011 23:09:18
Originally by: Querns
Reposting this on new page: http://pastebin.com/nejK4smN (the percentage of systems in a region which are unaffected or improved by the change) and asking a question to anyone who knows:

Will regions with broken truesec like Fountain and Delve use their broken truesec value to determine anom quality, or will it fall back on system truesec?


Nice but what percentage of regions will have more adversely effected systems rather than positively. Looking at Vale three times more systems will lose sanctums and havens than gain them.


Just take the percentage and subtract it from 100. In Vale of the Silent, 11% of the systems aren't being nerfed, so 89% of the systems in Vale are being nerfed.


No because some systems will stay the same, at least that's how i understand it. Systems with a truesec rating of -0.46 to -0.65 would have 4 Havens & sanctums with a fully upgraded ihub? Or have i gotten this totally wrong and it's even worse than i feared?

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:18:00 - [207]
 

A quick 'counter blog' post with my generic thoughts on Greyscales dev blog. For those who are interested in such things Very Happy

C.


Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:19:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Woodiex3
GL trying to convince ppl to make 7mil/tick in 0.0 compared to 25mil/tick in high sec


This.

If asked i'll say that i don't want this change to see the light of day, but a small part of me wants to see it, just to see the amount of facepalms on CCP's headquarters.

Yeah, i'm one of those people who saw 2012 and laughted like it was a Monty Python movie.


CCP Greyscale should change his name to CCP MichaelBay

zuckas
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:22:00 - [209]
 

Well hurray, high sec is now more profitbale to me thn 0.0

CCP you are dumb ****s, did you know that? You want to make more conflict in 0.0 by making risk free high sec more usefull then most of 0.0?

Guess what before these changes -1.0 is way more valuable then -.01, all this change does is hurt the little guy and send him back to high sec to run level 4 missions. There is almost 0 reason to control crappy 0.0 systems after this change.

Yep the small alliance can now afford to fight the big alliance to take that good space? how so? the little guy cant afford to fight the big alliances as it is how is nerfing them to hell and back going to make him able to take that good space?

One of the worst ideas ccp has had and from what i am looking at will have the reverse effect to what they want to see form it.

Some idiot at ccp decided they wanted more people running level 4's in high sec then in 0.0 thats the only logical reason for these changes is if thats what htey wanted.

Kronos Hopeslayer
Lorentzian Traversable Corporation
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:22:00 - [210]
 

Ya know all the complaining in this thread won't change much, but your credit card will.

http://www.swtor.com/

Let CCP keep the bots, soul crushing lag and nerfed nullsec.


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