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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:21:00 - [1711]
 

Hey Greyscale

Eve economics have gone nuts the last 2 years... And maybe it's too easy making isk in 0.0 - But certainly I really, really hope that you are looking into how easy it is to make isk farming lv 4 missions. There is a reason any half decent lv4 runner is undocking faction fit faction ships constantly without any real risc except a bunch of people ganking some of them for fun and a possible super drop.

I have personally scanned ships for hours in a hi-sec system and It was less that 10% of the undocking ships that wasn't marauders, faction battleships or Tengus. Of all ships including the T1 battleships it was less than 10% of them that didn't have faction modules fitted in some degree.

I would only find it fair if you investigated the current Lv 4 mechanics because otherwise I fear the risc-vs-reward statement CCP feeds upon has been severely undermined.

Every time we ganked a multi-billion isk ship we get some drame finished with F*** You, I'll have a new in a month...
And it's not seldom that people rather wanna live in empire because they can make much more isk running level 4 mission (which I ofcourse doubt a little, but the statement shows that CCP isn't good at making player space attractive for everybody)

Pinky Denmark

Oguras
Gallente
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:27:00 - [1712]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
Unless you have sov in null, then I suggest every single one of you trying to change how it works needs to have a nice tall glass of shut the **** up! There is a reason we are there and not you and it simply summs up to we are indeed better than you.

So instead of trying to fight us fair you cry to your CCP overlords to change the rules of the game to suit your favor. No one who does not have sov should even be allowed to have a say in what goes on there much less beg for nerfs to make up for their lack of skill!

So much for your leet honor that you like to brag about. Rolling Eyes



Better at whinning..
So far You've created one of the best whinethreadnoughts I saw in my life..

Cyno Alfacinha
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:32:00 - [1713]
 

Friends, I think this is the end game, most players have two or more accounts, for example I have two, but most likely cancel the accounts is waiting for better days, and I will look for other games to play, the worst of it is I think a lot of old players shall go do the same
Sad

John Python
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:33:00 - [1714]
 

Edited by: John Python on 30/03/2011 13:35:58
Originally by: Oguras
Originally by: TNT Lottery
I think that alot of the points made are important but the one CCP will understand most is:

More Players have more accounts because of sanctums. Remove Sanctums on such a grand scale, Less accounts. Less money for CCP in RL.

There are many who dont but i know since sanctums I have doubled the ammount of accounts i have just because i know ratting for a day or two will pay for the game time.

And believe me i wont hesitate in stop paying for the game time once this change comes into effect.

NO SANCTUMS NO EXTRA ACCOUNTS


This is bs, you were extending gametime with plex wich had to be bought from ccp at one point; it will have effect on plex market but it doesn't mean that if you cancel your subscription ccp will be hurt.. less isk in game and smaller plex demand might be equal and ppl who use game time codes might not stop buying them..


When people cant affored to buy plex (due to this change), the price and demand for plex will drop. When this happens many of the people that paid cash for GTC will stop buying them as demand and ISK value would have dropped.

So summing this up.

1) Less people buying plex = less peope buying GCTs = Less cash to CCP

2) Less people buying plex = less active accounts.


Just sayin

Better Than You
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:33:00 - [1715]
 

Originally by: Oguras
Originally by: Better Than You
Unless you have sov in null, then I suggest every single one of you trying to change how it works needs to have a nice tall glass of shut the **** up! There is a reason we are there and not you and it simply summs up to we are indeed better than you.

So instead of trying to fight us fair you cry to your CCP overlords to change the rules of the game to suit your favor. No one who does not have sov should even be allowed to have a say in what goes on there much less beg for nerfs to make up for their lack of skill!

So much for your leet honor that you like to brag about. Rolling Eyes



Better at whinning..
So far You've created one of the best whinethreadnoughts I saw in my life..


Cool starry bra!

I also like your null sec sov... oh wait. You must be one of those have not's that is jelous of us have's. Why don't you go cry to CCP for more nurfs to sov holders.. oh wait, I forgot, you have!

Rene Winter
Militant Mermen
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:35:00 - [1716]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 30/03/2011 13:03:23
Originally by: Optimator One
Originally by: Locii

lol no it wont, belive me when i say i know how much i can make mission running and when you count lp its more than anoms

I agree.
The problem is also that alliances invested alot of isk into upgrades and moving them to their space.
Those upgrades will now get useless.


How can they become useless if they're still providing upgraded sites? All the changes do is remove sanctums from the low true-sec systems. The other, sites, while less valuable than sanctums, will still be there.

Originally by: Rene Winter
Question, If you only want less money in the economy would there be a problem with slashing bounties by a significant margin and replacing that with a roughly equivalent mix of loot/mins/sweet stuff? Or raising Sov bills so more ISK is sucked out of the economy? I would rather have either of those than the anom nerf.


CCP tried that once, and people compensated for reduced mission rat bounties by grinding more. The option has to not be there for these changes to have their desired effect; players always overcompensate with numbers and time if they can. Raising sov bills is a bandaid that maintains the high barrier to entry and power creep problems that were already in place, and force everyone to grind more to maintain the status quo. This change would hurt small alliances more than big alliances, in comparison to a game-wide change in anomaly mechanics.


I actually disagree with the assessment that raising sov fees is a bandaid. I always felt they needed to be tweaked post dominion. They need to be set such that a system needs to hit n% utilization to be profitable/break even, and that alliances will take financial pain from holding unutilized systems. And yes it means more grinding but only if you are trying to hold more space than you need or want to maintain your current alliance level profit margin.

Bounty reduction would also not be a problem for me as long as I was able to get ships. I would not care if I ratted for N hours to get [a fully fit Malestom] + 50 million isk or if I got enough isk to buy a fully fit Maelston + 50 million. Plus it would spurn local industry more than importing.

Optimator One
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:41:00 - [1717]
 

Originally by: John Python


When people cant affored to buy plex (due to this change), the price and demand for plex will drop. When this happens many of the people that paid cash for GTC will stop buying them as demand and ISK value would have dropped.

So summing this up.

1) Less people buying plex = less peope buying GCTs = Less cash to CCP

2) Less people buying plex = less active accounts.


Just sayin

So true.

StuRyan
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:41:00 - [1718]
 

All thats need to be said:

1725 replies
65,800 views

2 responses from the Devs.

enough is enough

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:42:00 - [1719]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 30/03/2011 13:43:27
Originally by: John Python


When people cant affored to buy plex (due to this change), the price and demand for plex will drop. When this happens many of the people that paid cash for GTC will stop buying them as demand and ISK value would have dropped.

So summing this up.

1) Less people buying plex = less peope buying GCTs = Less cash to CCP

2) Less people buying plex = less active accounts.


Just sayin


Equals lower demand in game for PLEX, equals lower price for PLEX, equals more people buying PLEX and using it to fund their own accounts, and possibly even new people willing to give it a shot since the threshold for being able to keep playing goes down.

It evens out.

Originally by: Rene Winter
I actually disagree with the assessment that raising sov fees is a bandaid. I always felt they needed to be tweaked post dominion. They need to be set such that a system needs to hit n% utilization to be profitable/break even, and that alliances will take financial pain from holding unutilized systems. And yes it means more grinding but only if you are trying to hold more space than you need or want to maintain your current alliance level profit margin.

Bounty reduction would also not be a problem for me as long as I was able to get ships. I would not care if I ratted for N hours to get [a fully fit Malestom] + 50 million isk or if I got enough isk to buy a fully fit Maelston + 50 million. Plus it would spurn local industry more than importing.


It's a bandaid because it increases the demand for ISK generation in the game, which is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Increasing taxation has the side effect of encouraging people without money to make more of it.

Marco P
Really Nice And Laidback Corporation
Posted - 2011.03.30 13:54:00 - [1720]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

Morning all,

Just wanted to drop a few points to think about in here now that I've had some sleep. I'm still mulling over the arguments presented, just wanted to add in some things to the discussion here so our though processes are more closely aligned.

- Assuming the same pilots-per-anom ratio, increasing the number of good anoms in a given area has no impact on the average ISK per pilot. It does affect the carrying capacity of a given system, and it does make it more cost-effective to ensure your space isn't over-saturated, but if a given alliance already has sufficient capacity for their players, then short of a major recruiting drive this change is just going to save them a bit of money at the alliance level by allowing them to pay for a smaller number of systems. Other than that it doesn't really have an effect on their income.

- Historically it's extremely rare that space will stand empty for any extended period ("claimed wastelands" have historically and AFAIAA been highly correlated with the presence of high-value moons, which is a separate issue). People live in Outer Ring. The population density/carrying capacity of low-value space can be affected, but I would not expect any area of space to be truly empty for long.

- Related to this, the current concern about low-value space as it relates to new alliances is that, because it can be upgraded to be almost as good as anywhere else in the game, there's little incentive to move along once you're there. Dominion worked well with getting these regions more useful and more occupied, but we're concerned that unless the current tenants have a good reason to want to leave behind the infrastructure they've built up and move on to better areas, the next crop of prospective alliances are going to find they have nowhere to go.

I think there was another point but I've forgotten what it was; I'll come back later if I remember.

{edit} Oh yes, I remember:

- Absolute sec status counts are somewhat misleading in this context, because with the proposed changes you only need a few good systems to balance out a lot of bad ones. Two upgraded -0.9 or lower systems are equivalent to a fully-upgraded constellation under the current mechanics. The thing we were looking at most when evaluating numbers for this was how many "good" systems a region had. If a region is 80% dross but you can support your entire alliances from the remaining 20%, then you're in a pretty decent place.


Just found this buried in the middle and haven't read the posts around it so apologies if I am repeating.

The problem is that this isn't how alliances really work (or at least none that I've been in for the last 4 years or so). The elite corps will get the good systems and the average guys will not. Tech moons prove this - alliances don't say "welcome new corp take 10% of our tech moon income as we like to share evenly". Those that can play a lot (students, those without a job and ccp employees) will hugely benefit. The average player who can only take a more casual approach will be forced out of 0.0.

Personally I'm not rage quitting but as soon as I get time to "play" I will be moving my stuff from 0.0 and doing other stuff (lvl 4s for isk). Perhaps this is what CCP intended - leave 0.0 for "elite" players only - if so Great Job!Sad

Kalothea
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:00:00 - [1721]
 

I've been playing since 2003 (albeit on and off). I've lived in Empire, I've lived in 0.0, have been part of big fights, small fights, large power block sov struggles, etc. If it can happen in the game experience, I've experienced it on some level. I've seen the changes. Some were great evolutionary steps, others not so good. But of all the hair-brained schemes that CCP have come up with to "improve" 0.0, this has got to be the worst ever.

To me, this is counter-intuitive and will have the opposite effect of what they intend / claim, effectively shutting out smaller alliances from 0.0 completely. What's the incentive to claim sov in these low end systems? What's the financial incentive to anchor an ihub and upgrade it in a low end 0.0 system? Other than for mining, none whatsoever. The time / effort / isk required to upgrade to a L5 Pirate Detection is now non-existent. The whole move to 0.0 now is really not worth it unless someone is joining a large power block alliance or their rental alliances.

If anything, as many have pointed out, this will either force people to return to Empire to grind L4 missions rather than stay in 0.0. Or those who do stay in 0.0 will either have Empire alts financing their PvP alts in 0.0, or will jump clone back and forth as required. Mining will remain a viable activity in 0.0, but only to those who are part of the power blocks or their pets. Otherwise, mining will be impossible, as small corps will get griefed all to Hell by either the power block members, or roaming pirate corps. This will drive these small alliances out of 0.0 and back to Empire where they can actually earn a comparable living with next to none of the risks. I can guarantee you that grinding L4 missions in Empire (especially with LP factored in) is FAR more profitable than running hubs in 0.0, and with no risk involved. The choice there is a no-brainer.

Personally, this change has no immediate effect on me or my corp. Our 0.0 home is in the right security band that it will be exactly the same as it was before the nerf. But despite this, I see this nerf as a horrible idea. More distressing is the complete lack of reply on CCP's part, and the only CSM reply in this thread is basically sucking CCP's virtual a$$ with a pacifist "let's see how this works out" rather than stepping in and representing the people who got him elected.

So enjoy your new worthless 0.0 space people. Seems like CCP have no intentions of backtracking on this. They even went out of their way to make sure the outgoing CSM knew nothing about this in order to not step in their way. For whatever reason, they want this change badly, and will go ahead with it regardless what any of us say. Perhaps one day CCP will remove their heads from the sanctuary of their rectums and live up to their own model of "player-drive experience". Until then, we'll just have to deal with their incessant, often lame-brained efforts at fixing things that aren't even broken (because those are easy changes to implement), rather than fixing the tons of bugs that have been in the game for years, including the hardly improving lag...

You want to "fix" null and make it more dynamic? Distribute moon resources more evenly, and introduce a depletion mechanic into moon mining. Perhaps allow moon mining in high sec as well so that more than just the large 0.0 power blocks and large low sec pirate alliances have access to it. This will drive the price down, and actually give people a reason to fight for space. That's what the power blocks hold space for. It has nothing to do with anomalies. Change that, and you'll change the face of 0.0 forever.

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:00:00 - [1722]
 

Edited by: Skaarl on 30/03/2011 14:03:20
Originally by: Marco P
Originally by: CCP Greyscale

Morning all,

Just wanted to drop a few points to think about in here now that I've had some sleep. I'm still mulling over the arguments presented, just wanted to add in some things to the discussion here so our though processes are more closely aligned.

- Assuming the same pilots-per-anom ratio, increasing the number of good anoms in a given area has no impact on the average ISK per pilot. It does affect the carrying capacity of a given system, and it does make it more cost-effective to ensure your space isn't over-saturated, but if a given alliance already has sufficient capacity for their players, then short of a major recruiting drive this change is just going to save them a bit of money at the alliance level by allowing them to pay for a smaller number of systems. Other than that it doesn't really have an effect on their income.

- Historically it's extremely rare that space will stand empty for any extended period ("claimed wastelands" have historically and AFAIAA been highly correlated with the presence of high-value moons, which is a separate issue). People live in Outer Ring. The population density/carrying capacity of low-value space can be affected, but I would not expect any area of space to be truly empty for long.

- Related to this, the current concern about low-value space as it relates to new alliances is that, because it can be upgraded to be almost as good as anywhere else in the game, there's little incentive to move along once you're there. Dominion worked well with getting these regions more useful and more occupied, but we're concerned that unless the current tenants have a good reason to want to leave behind the infrastructure they've built up and move on to better areas, the next crop of prospective alliances are going to find they have nowhere to go.

I think there was another point but I've forgotten what it was; I'll come back later if I remember.

{edit} Oh yes, I remember:

- Absolute sec status counts are somewhat misleading in this context, because with the proposed changes you only need a few good systems to balance out a lot of bad ones. Two upgraded -0.9 or lower systems are equivalent to a fully-upgraded constellation under the current mechanics. The thing we were looking at most when evaluating numbers for this was how many "good" systems a region had. If a region is 80% dross but you can support your entire alliances from the remaining 20%, then you're in a pretty decent place.


Just found this buried in the middle and haven't read the posts around it so apologies if I am repeating.

The problem is that this isn't how alliances really work (or at least none that I've been in for the last 4 years or so). The elite corps will get the good systems and the average guys will not. Tech moons prove this - alliances don't say "welcome new corp take 10% of our tech moon income as we like to share evenly". Those that can play a lot (students, those without a job and ccp employees) will hugely benefit. The average player who can only take a more casual approach will be forced out of 0.0.

Personally I'm not rage quitting but as soon as I get time to "play" I will be moving my stuff from 0.0 and doing other stuff (lvl 4s for isk). Perhaps this is what CCP intended - leave 0.0 for "elite" players only - if so Great Job!Sad


as i have stated before in this thread: ccp greyscale obviously does not play eve, if he does hes in a high sec ratting corp. he has no clue how 0.0 functions, nor does he show any indication for having the aptitude or the desire to learn. he had a discussion with his barbie doll in his cubicle one day and they decided this was a good idea.

if you disagree with him join us on SISI on march 31st at 20:00 utc for a mass protest of these changes.

Rene Winter
Militant Mermen
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:04:00 - [1723]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion


Originally by: Rene Winter
I actually disagree with the assessment that raising sov fees is a bandaid. I always felt they needed to be tweaked post dominion. They need to be set such that a system needs to hit n% utilization to be profitable/break even, and that alliances will take financial pain from holding unutilized systems. And yes it means more grinding but only if you are trying to hold more space than you need or want to maintain your current alliance level profit margin.

Bounty reduction would also not be a problem for me as long as I was able to get ships. I would not care if I ratted for N hours to get [a fully fit Malestom] + 50 million isk or if I got enough isk to buy a fully fit Maelston + 50 million. Plus it would spurn local industry more than importing.


It's a bandaid because it increases the demand for ISK generation in the game, which is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Increasing taxation has the side effect of encouraging people without money to make more of it.


Huh? in my case demand for ISK increases and in the proposed changes ISK Supply is being reduced. Seems about the same to me.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:10:00 - [1724]
 

Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 30/03/2011 14:12:17
Originally by: Skaarl
as i have stated before in this thread: ccp greyscale obviously does not play eve, if he does hes in a high sec ratting corp. he has no clue how 0.0 functions, nor does he show any indication for having the aptitude or the desire to learn. he had a discussion with his barbie doll in his cubicle one day and they decided this was a good idea.

if you disagree with him join us on SISI on march 31st at 20:00 utc for a mass protest of these changes.

Whine more renter-boy, your QQ tears are delicious.

Also, having actually lived multiple times in subsistent parts of 0.0 with no alliance block support instead of doing the rent-a-sanctum thing you only seem to know... I have to say this change is the best thing to happen to 0.0 this year, and the predictions Greyscale has made seem spot on.

Edit: And wow, people actually posting QQ screenshots... This thread delivers.

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:23:00 - [1725]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 30/03/2011 14:12:17
Originally by: Skaarl
as i have stated before in this thread: ccp greyscale obviously does not play eve, if he does hes in a high sec ratting corp. he has no clue how 0.0 functions, nor does he show any indication for having the aptitude or the desire to learn. he had a discussion with his barbie doll in his cubicle one day and they decided this was a good idea.

if you disagree with him join us on SISI on march 31st at 20:00 utc for a mass protest of these changes.

Whine more renter-boy, your QQ tears are delicious.

Also, having actually lived multiple times in subsistent parts of 0.0 with no alliance block support instead of doing the rent-a-sanctum thing you only seem to know... I have to say this change is the best thing to happen to 0.0 this year, and the predictions Greyscale has made seem spot on.

Edit: And wow, people actually posting QQ screenshots... This thread delivers.


the things he predicts in no way will happen. what are his assumptions? that a) people will turn on friends for better ratting space. b) small alliance will challenge people like RA, SOLAR, MM, RZR, -A- or Atlas for ratting space? and have a chance at winning? he is way off base, his assumptions are faulty and you can troll all you want, the only thing this does is go "hey all you guys who moved to null with the release of dominion? go **** yourself and the billions you have spent. we need to make room for "new" alliances to move into your space so you need to go elsewhere! if we dont leave? im sure they will come up with some new way to make "room" for new alliances to make space, forgetting of course that there is limited null sec space and its already occupied.

basically his assumptions have no basis in the game world as it exists, his historical recollections are faulty (the only sections of null that were populated and **** was provi) and will have the result of decreasing both CCP's playerbase but the 0.0 population as well. but of course him and barbi they gotta be right, hes a game dev!

if you dont agree with him, fell free to show up on SISI on march 31st at 20:00 UTC and show your disapproval!

Serpentine Logic
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:26:00 - [1726]
 

This thread must be full of people who don't remember what it was like before Dominion, or else they wouldn't say such incredibly misguided things.

Guys, even if you get fewer sanctums's, you'll get more escalations, so you really have no basis for your arguments.

Kalothea
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:29:00 - [1727]
 

Nice reply Greyscale. All you've manage to do was solidify the image of how clueless you really are to the mechanics of 0.0.

It has little to do with game (coding) mechanics and far more to do with the social nature of humans (driven by greed for the most part). Yes, there are imbalances in the game mechanics (moons) which the power blocks are exploiting, and that's what should be addressed. Your changes will no affect large alliances in the slightest. The only people they'll affect is individuals in small corps and alliances - the people you're claiming to help.

JohnMonty
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:29:00 - [1728]
 

Edited by: JohnMonty on 30/03/2011 14:30:44
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 30/03/2011 13:43:27
Originally by: John Python


When people cant affored to buy plex (due to this change), the price and demand for plex will drop. When this happens many of the people that paid cash for GTC will stop buying them as demand and ISK value would have dropped.

So summing this up.

1) Less people buying plex = less peope buying GCTs = Less cash to CCP

2) Less people buying plex = less active accounts.


Just sayin


Equals lower demand in game for PLEX, equals lower price for PLEX, equals more people buying PLEX and using it to fund their own accounts, and possibly even new people willing to give it a shot since the threshold for being able to keep playing goes down.

It evens out.




Yes it will level out that is what happens. The price will drop then hit a natrual suport level this level will be based off CASH:ISK. The lower the CASH:ISK gets the number of people willing to buy GTC to make ISK will drop. Which will still = less people buying GTC so less cash for CCP.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:31:00 - [1729]
 

Please contract all unwanted regions to Malcanis.

Honestly the dishonesty (I prefer to believe that it's dishonesty, because it it's sincere then the stupidity is reaching core meltdown levels) in this thread is amazing. And so hyperbolic that it's impossible to take at all seriously.

Listen carefully: If CCP removed system upgrades altogether, then regions like Pure Blind would still be a money-true. It was space well worth holding before Dominion, and it'll be space well worth holding after these changes.

But as said, I will gladly receive any unwanted systems. eve-mail me in game and I will take over soverignty of all unwanted constellations (please dont bother me with individual systems while people who need to offload entire regions need my services).

Ace Frehley
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:36:00 - [1730]
 

Originally by: missminer69
Edited by: missminer69 on 30/03/2011 11:45:22
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: missminer69
CCP alt ***** detected.


Coward alt detected. Post with your main.


MUHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You and about 4 others are the only people who want this change.

The game has become far too easy
Go cry somewhere else its a game you prick.


Yoou wrong, it is only the newcomers to 0.0 aka the whiners who dont want the change. We who played for a longtime and the "elite-pvpers" (Im not 1 of them) loves this change. Eve is to easy atm, no struggle to get the riches. You want reward, come and fight for it YARRRR!!

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:36:00 - [1731]
 

Originally by: Skaarl
the things he predicts in no way will happen. what are his assumptions? that a) people will turn on friends for better ratting space. b) small alliance will challenge people like RA, SOLAR, MM, RZR, -A- or Atlas for ratting space? and have a chance at winning? he is way off base, his assumptions are faulty and you can troll all you want, the only thing this does is go "hey all you guys who moved to null with the release of dominion? go **** yourself and the billions you have spent. we need to make room for "new" alliances to move into your space so you need to go elsewhere! if we dont leave? im sure they will come up with some new way to make "room" for new alliances to make space, forgetting of course that there is limited null sec space and its already occupied.

a) You are delusional if you think those alliances all BFF. Some are, however if you had actually lived real 0.0 life for a long enough time you'd know there is friendship, and then there's friendship. Only the latter, a very rare thing, actually survives once incentive is gone.

b) If you think that lineup of alliances are going to be challenged for ratting-space by small alliances, then you just don't understand the dynamics involved. Arguing along the lines that e.g. that those alliances won't abandon that sub-par ratting space would indicate you actually understood the mechanics we are suggesting will be in effect.

Kalothea
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:44:00 - [1732]
 

Originally by: Ace Frehley
Yoou wrong, it is only the newcomers to 0.0 aka the whiners who dont want the change. We who played for a longtime and the "elite-pvpers" (Im not 1 of them) loves this change. Eve is to easy atm, no struggle to get the riches. You want reward, come and fight for it YARRRR!!


In theory, I would agree. However, in reality, all this change does is remove any value from the low end systems that would be available. Why would anyone invest heavily in a worthless 0.0 system when they can make more money in Empire?

If you truly believe this, then I have an investment opportunity for you. Every week, give me 1B isk. After 7 days, I'll keep 250M isk, and give you back 750M. The following week, do the same again. Great setup, isn't it?

Better Than You
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:52:00 - [1733]
 

I just can't believe this absolute bull ****! We fight insurmountable odds to get the space. Spend billions upon billions of ISK to make it finally usable and you decide to just come and and be all like, "Sorry guys, we didn't want you to win anyways so HAHA! Your space is now ****! Enjoy! :smug:"

I swear on ALL that is holy, if you do this change I will cancel all five of my accounts, and take some people with me. So your looking at most likely fifty so accounts (thats right, I have friends unlike some of you for this change) between me and my friends. Here, let me help you with the math there. That is 50 accounts times €15 = €750 a month.

So if you want to keep working on other games I strongly suggest you delete this idea from you thought process and do something else more productive!

And another thing. Why in the **** does everything have to be about zomgleetpvpstuff??? Seriously, if you want non-stop conflict I suggest you fire up your XBox and play some Call of Duty. Or better yet just keep that teenage emotional rage bottled up till DUST 514 comes out. Then you can have your non-stop Pee Vee Pee!

Ace Frehley
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:53:00 - [1734]
 

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL!?!?!

You all created post dominion!? Do you muppets think Geminate, Providence Pure Blind was totally eampty before? You all whining more then people claiming earth will explode year 1999. Im sure CCP will tweak the sov-costs aswell before they launch this much needed change.

I have an idea, come up with new ways to create incomst to your alliance in a 0.0 spaceregion besides killing NPC´s in some form. maybe should focus on that instead of sitting in a sanctum 23/7 and cry.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:53:00 - [1735]
 

The TL;DR is simply that it is ridiculous that a normal grunt will make more ISK in high sec than in an average populated crap 0.0 region. (Where average populated means you cannot make all your isk with exploration).

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.03.30 14:56:00 - [1736]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
the stupidity is reaching core meltdown levels


I think we've already got a breached containment vessel tbh....

Ravora
Posted - 2011.03.30 15:04:00 - [1737]
 

I wonder if the low logins the last days have something to do with this change....
The login amount has never been that low since ca. 05.2009

http://www.eveger.de/page_serverstatus.php?serverstatusid=1

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.03.30 15:10:00 - [1738]
 

Edited by: Skaarl on 30/03/2011 15:12:01
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Skaarl
the things he predicts in no way will happen. what are his assumptions? that a) people will turn on friends for better ratting space. b) small alliance will challenge people like RA, SOLAR, MM, RZR, -A- or Atlas for ratting space? and have a chance at winning? he is way off base, his assumptions are faulty and you can troll all you want, the only thing this does is go "hey all you guys who moved to null with the release of dominion? go **** yourself and the billions you have spent. we need to make room for "new" alliances to move into your space so you need to go elsewhere! if we dont leave? im sure they will come up with some new way to make "room" for new alliances to make space, forgetting of course that there is limited null sec space and its already occupied.

a) You are delusional if you think those alliances all BFF. Some are, however if you had actually lived real 0.0 life for a long enough time you'd know there is friendship, and then there's friendship. Only the latter, a very rare thing, actually survives once incentive is gone.

b) If you think that lineup of alliances are going to be challenged for ratting-space by small alliances, then you just don't understand the dynamics involved. Arguing along the lines that e.g. that those alliances won't abandon that sub-par ratting space would indicate you actually understood the mechanics we are suggesting will be in effect.


a) not going to comment as its a matter of opinion more than fact, mine is that we wouldnt attack friends over better ratting space.

b) thank you for proving my point. these are not my assumptions. read the dev blog. these are ccp greyscales assumptions and the foundtaion of his whole argument. his theory is that alliances who moved into crap space post dominion are setting up shop, so to encourage them to contest for more valuable ratting space they are nerfing the current space. i like how even while trolling me you manage to prove my point. noone is going to attack the previously mentioned alliances to get their good true sec ratting space. this will then in turn not open up the "bad" space for high sec alliances who want to move in. its just not going to happen.

now if the consequences of the change are NOT going to be what he is claiming they will be, and that all of his "models" claim it will be, then why make the change?

and to ace, dude i lived in provi. i moved into pure blind and helped kick you guys out. neither one of the places was as populated as PB is now, nor as provi is now. they were pretty barren to be honest. when we first moved into pure blind it was almost totally empty, and that was several months post dominion. we had some bort dudes next door, and evoke sorta kinda in the bottom half of cloud ring and occasionally in 7d-osq. i honestly cant speak for geminate, but yes, compared to the amount of people who are in both providence and pure blind now, especially pure blind, they were devoid of life. which is why the current system was put in place if you would remember back. i dont care that you disagree, and there are reasons im sure you can think up of that might be actual arguments. why make something up?

Mistress Frome
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.30 15:28:00 - [1739]
 

God damn. If you're so worried about not being able to stay in PvP ships with the changes, maybe you should ask your NC overlords to allow you to run anoms in their space? Maybe even ask them to distribute a little of that tech money to your corp/alliance in exchange for fighting under them? If they're unwilling to do so, maybe you should stop fighting for them and go do your own thing or find someone who is willing to take care of those under them.

R0RSCH4CH
Posted - 2011.03.30 15:32:00 - [1740]
 

Edited by: R0RSCH4CH on 30/03/2011 15:32:50
Well, maybe time for giving perpetuum a try :)

EvE with Mechs.

Linky


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