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Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2011.03.29 08:50:00 - [1351]
 

You are giving solutions to different problems than the ones Greyscale is trying to solve.

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.29 08:53:00 - [1352]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
0.0 isnt about being fair, it isnt about "hi lets NAP", NC are soo worried about losing their renters they are raging.


I'll repeat myself in case you missed it:

Originally by: Imigo Montoya
ev0ke, -A-, NC., Intrepid Crossing, Solar Wing, and Shadow of Death are not part of the NC, but all have members expressing their concern/disapproval of these changes for a multitude of reasons


Originally by: Kalle Demos
This is a good change, CCP go ahead with it, it will make 0.0 valuable again, you can clearly see from the comments that anoms are what making it easier to NAP, easier to bot and easier to rage.

Oh and 0.0 has been crawling with supercaps and dull wars, having people work for their ISK for a change makes sense, MAKE THIS CHANGE HAPPEN NOW!!


As you seem to have the habit (as above) to post something as fact without backing it up and using weasel words, please explain to to those of us who lack your "clarity of vision" how anoms make it easier to NAP*, bot, and rage?

*As a side note, there is no mechanism for a Non-Aggression Pact specifically in game, there are only different levels of standings. How players use those standings is up to them.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.03.29 08:56:00 - [1353]
 

Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 29/03/2011 09:02:02
Originally by: Pineapple Bill
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Originally by: Pineapple Bill

Redistribute the moongoo.( Evenly )(Better yet remove it all, and switch over to system similar to PI for the t2 components)
Make some changes to black ops, allow them to jump other ships as well based on size ie...cruisers and below, and give them some range to there bridge.
Null sec needs a resource that can only be gotten in null sec.
Add a treaty system and charge a treaty maintenance fee. (Should be based on number of members in initiating corp/alliance)
Ability to drop more than one station in a system.
Remove the ability for a titan or super carrier to enter a POS shield.
Tie activity into sovereignty (You have to occupy it to keep it)
Remove ability for non sovereignty holding corps/alliance to declare war on sovereignty holding corps/alliance.
Allow corporations to hold sovereignty.



Wow... a couple of ideas that are actually worse than Grayscale's devblog ugh Congrats for the effort, I know it wasn't easy.


I think of my ideas would permote a better null sec, and be much better than CCP purposed changes, but then again I am not a null sec power-block member, I am one of the little guys that the changes CCP are purposing will screw.

I can totally understand why folks like yourself would think my ideas are bad or worse than CCP purposed changes.


No,... don't get me wrong. I'm very much against CCP's changes because those changes will not hurt powerful alliances or corporations, it will hurt the individual players. It will also leave a trace in the economy and force players to do more stuff they hate to do. I just think some of your ideas are not good, that's all.

Originally by: Kalle Demos

You do know CCP ONLY introduced these anoms in Dominion yeah, you have only had these bot havens just over a year AND 0.0 never even gained any population, removing them would hardly result in losing players.

I moved to 0.0 for the first time when Dominion changes were announced. It enabled the small alliance I was in to live in nullsec for a while. It was only driven out of nullsec because of bad diplomacy (but that's another story). You are pulling that information from... I don't know where.

Jita Tradedrone
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:01:00 - [1354]
 

being of a small renter alliance, who probably wont be able to pay the rent after the change. my sentiments are perfectly voiced in what an alliance member said about the change and why it will fail.

Quote:
The big guys WILL go there and swat them for lols.
You know it. I know it and the big guys know it. They have enough bored SC or cap pilots to do it. So unless they somehow massively nerf the number advantage and cap advantage it wont do diddly to help anyone take "worthless" space.


Worthless space will just result in being worthless again as it was before dominion. why because its worthless again. Too bad CCP fails to see this.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:05:00 - [1355]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
*Raises hand* Although not in Sanctums, the one size down yields much better ISK/hour .. double bonus for more cruiser sized modules which has better ISK/m3 and being able to run them in a PvP fit HAC/T3.
In short: Your grinding/ratting leaves something to be desired.


100m/Hour Farming Havens? LOL, nice try but total fail, unless you run these havens with the 10 hacs mentioned a few pages ago.

Originally by: Kalle Demos
You do know CCP ONLY introduced these anoms in Dominion yeah, you have only had these bot havens just over a year AND 0.0 never even gained any population, removing them would hardly result in losing players.

This will also stop the supercap mass production and FINALLY kills will mean something, if you have a problem with this ask your leaders for better space, but dont complain to CCP about making space worth something.

Next you will say "its unfair that Jita has more more activity than Amarr", EVE isnt fair and was NEVER meant to be balanced, you have an issue take it up with Kim Jong Lau NOT CCP!!

Besides you will still make alot of ISK in 0.0 from other sources, not everyone needs to bot.


The amount of players has also dropped. Guess what that means? Also there're more people in 0.0 now than ever before.

Lenthall Scorpus
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:08:00 - [1356]
 

Edited by: Lenthall Scorpus on 29/03/2011 09:09:58
Edited by: Lenthall Scorpus on 29/03/2011 09:09:07
Originally by: Kalle Demos


You do know CCP ONLY introduced these anoms in Dominion yeah, you have only had these bot havens just over a year AND 0.0 never even gained any population, removing them would hardly result in losing players.

This will also stop the supercap mass production and FINALLY kills will mean something, if you have a problem with this ask your leaders for better space, but dont complain to CCP about making space worth something.

Next you will say "its unfair that Jita has more more activity than Amarr", EVE isnt fair and was NEVER meant to be balanced, you have an issue take it up with Kim Jong Lau NOT CCP!!

Besides you will still make alot of ISK in 0.0 from other sources, not everyone needs to bot.


You really thought hard about this statement didn't youQuestion

Do the maths - big alliances already hold most of the good space already as Moon goo trumps all income

Let's analise a region like Providence

Before Dominion it was a worthless piece of space where CVA carved a hard existence and made noobs come to learn the PVP trade, Dominion hit and the region actually became worth something. Did CVA lose the space because of a new "perceived" value, no they where stupid and poked a bear with a twig and lost there space.

Now you have a few alliances in there that is facing a real threat to there member's existence since they cant do farming and guess what, Provi is going back too being .... wait for it.... useless.

Somewhere in this long thread somebody pointed out that the Rich (NC & DRF) will get richer and the rest well you will have to start getting those dust of the Navy Ravens in Inaro since the non fun grind of Lvl 4's is beckoning once more.

We can say one thing about CCP Failscale (Oops I didn't just do thatTwisted EvilTwisted Evil)and his theories (Besides not knowing how to substantiate his theories) he will be creating a lot of grief and wasted hours and ending subscriptions (wait a sec is CCP not suppose to KEEP their clients? ugh)

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:09:00 - [1357]
 

Originally by: Jita Tradedrone
being of a small renter alliance, who probably wont be able to pay the rent after the change. my sentiments are perfectly voiced in what an alliance member said about the change and why it will fail.

Quote:
The big guys WILL go there and swat them for lols.
You know it. I know it and the big guys know it. They have enough bored SC or cap pilots to do it. So unless they somehow massively nerf the number advantage and cap advantage it wont do diddly to help anyone take "worthless" space.


Worthless space will just result in being worthless again as it was before dominion. why because its worthless again. Too bad CCP fails to see this.


But you miss the bigger picture. The people living in that ****ty space will take their fleet(corp) and move to better space (Motsu), farm the sanctums (lvl 4's), then take their blob to even better space (WH's?) and take that space, right? It has to be, CCP said so, because CCP know best.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:13:00 - [1358]
 

Originally by: Lenthall Scorpus
Let's analise a region like Providence

Before Dominion it was a worthless piece of space where CVA carved a hard existence and made noobs come to learn the PVP trade, Dominion hit and the region actually became worth something. Did CVA lose the space because of a new "perceived" value, no they where stupid and poked a bear with a twig and lost there space.

Now you have a few alliances in there that is facing a real threat to there member's existence since they cant do farming and guess what, Provi is going back too being .... wait for it.... useless.


Providence will be even more worthless, as there're sov bills that will need to be paid. But they'll be paid with their super moons... no wait, all those moons are in the north.

Now if only CCP Noobscale and his merry band of clueless elves could grasp that.

Jita Tradedrone
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:14:00 - [1359]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Jita Tradedrone
being of a small renter alliance, who probably wont be able to pay the rent after the change. my sentiments are perfectly voiced in what an alliance member said about the change and why it will fail.

Quote:
The big guys WILL go there and swat them for lols.
You know it. I know it and the big guys know it. They have enough bored SC or cap pilots to do it. So unless they somehow massively nerf the number advantage and cap advantage it wont do diddly to help anyone take "worthless" space.


Worthless space will just result in being worthless again as it was before dominion. why because its worthless again. Too bad CCP fails to see this.


But you miss the bigger picture. The people living in that ****ty space will take their fleet(corp) and move to better space (Motsu), farm the sanctums (lvl 4's), then take their blob to even better space (WH's?) and take that space, right? It has to be, CCP said so, because CCP know best.


yes but of course. we will take our 1.5 carrier, 3 bs's and 5 drakes and go and claim better spaces! The fact they can easily field as many caps as we have members doesnt withhold us.. /sarcasm

Ignatius Gnarl
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:14:00 - [1360]
 

People saying losses should mean something are missing the point. I agree with them. But what is proposed is:
* if you want to live in nullsec, losses will be crippling
* if you carebear in hisec and then PvP for lulz in nullsec, losses will be fine

Any restructure needs to take account of the whole EVE environment. I wouldn't mind nuking nullsec if they devastated hi-sec too. I think it would be a better game if battleships were rare and valued by everyone and capitals were legendary and awesome ships as opposed to the current supercap blobs.

But all the current proposal does is make living in nullsec a stupid option since there is a huge opportunity cost.

It's all about the relative risk/reward of the different places.

Jita Tradedrone
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:17:00 - [1361]
 

Originally by: Ignatius Gnarl

* if you carebear in hisec and then PvP for lulz in nullsec, losses will be fine



but there will be less people in 0.0 because they will fly over there in the weekend in their weekend fleet. get into a few fights and than back to hi-sec to recoup losses.

the big NAPs stay. The big powerhouses stay. and the smallfries are back in hi-sec (where they belong according to ccp i guess)

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:25:00 - [1362]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
You do know CCP ONLY introduced these anoms in Dominion yeah, you have only had these bot havens just over a year AND 0.0 never even gained any population, removing them would hardly result in losing players.


I didn't address this point (the bolded part) earlier because I needed to find proof first, but this is just plain wrong.

If you look at the QENs since Dominion (Q2 2010 and Q3 2010) you will see (on page 13 or 14) that not only has the population of nullsec grown, the percentage of the total population that are in nullsec has also grown.

Fact checking makes a difference when trying to present a case.

Locii
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:26:00 - [1363]
 

Originally by: Jita Tradedrone
Originally by: Ignatius Gnarl

* if you carebear in hisec and then PvP for lulz in nullsec, losses will be fine



but there will be less people in 0.0 because they will fly over there in the weekend in their weekend fleet. get into a few fights and than back to hi-sec to recoup losses.

the big NAPs stay. The big powerhouses stay. and the smallfries are back in hi-sec (where they belong according to ccp i guess)


this is what happened before dominion. tried 0.0 belts they didnt produce anywhere close to my cnr in highsec, the belts got worse with that stupid rats warp in crap they installed.

UniqueOne
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:28:00 - [1364]
 

This really is a sandbox game. CCP are burying their heads in the sand as we speak.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:35:00 - [1365]
 

I bet not a single player that has threatened to quit because of this change actually does.

Also let us not forget this is not the only change that will happen. So going all ape **** over one of several changes to come is a bit over the top.

/gets afk cloak alt ready to put in one of the overcrowded future sanctum systems w/ cov cyno...

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:38:00 - [1366]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 29/03/2011 09:40:55
Originally by: Jita Tradedrone
yes but of course. we will take our 1.5 carrier, 3 bs's and 5 drakes and go and claim better spaces! The fact they can easily field as many caps as we have members doesnt withhold us.. /sarcasm


Personally I thought my sarcasm was pretty easy to read, considering better space became Motsu and sanctums were lvl 4's.

Originally by: Marconus Orion
I bet not a single player that has threatened to quit because of this change actually does.

Also let us not forget this is not the only change that will happen. So going all ape **** over one of several changes to come is a bit over the top.

/gets afk cloak alt ready to put in one of the overcrowded future sanctum systems w/ cov cyno...


Going from six accounts to five and then to three is great going for CCP. I never said I'd quit. I've said all along I'll just drop another account or two.

Jita Tradedrone
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:39:00 - [1367]
 

Edited by: Jita Tradedrone on 29/03/2011 09:40:33
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Jita Tradedrone
yes but of course. we will take our 1.5 carrier, 3 bs's and 5 drakes and go and claim better spaces! The fact they can easily field as many caps as we have members doesnt withhold us.. /sarcasm


Personally I thought my sarcasm was pretty easy to read, considering better space became Motsu and sanctums were lvl 4's


i know, and i have seen and i have appreciated your sarcasm :D i just ended the sarcasm Laughing

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.29 09:42:00 - [1368]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 29/03/2011 09:44:03
Originally by: Jita Tradedrone
Edited by: Jita Tradedrone on 29/03/2011 09:40:33
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Jita Tradedrone
yes but of course. we will take our 1.5 carrier, 3 bs's and 5 drakes and go and claim better spaces! The fact they can easily field as many caps as we have members doesnt withhold us.. /sarcasm


Personally I thought my sarcasm was pretty easy to read, considering better space became Motsu and sanctums were lvl 4's


i know, and i have seen and i have appreciated your sarcasm :D i just ended the sarcasm Laughing


Sorry, I misunderstood.

Well, look mate. If you're clever you'll take your corp, set tax to 110%, build like 9 Titans each and then go and take some space.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.03.29 10:29:00 - [1369]
 

Although I don't believe this change is that much of a game changer, if this thread gets to 50 pages, I'll be changing my mind lol.

Go for it CCP.

This *change* has clearly created 'friction' at some level.

Its doubtful it'll boil into war and fracturing of mega-alliances but may cause a deflation in the numbers of their membership who aren't there because they like the people they are playing with, but for the access to lucrative space.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.29 10:32:00 - [1370]
 

Originally by: Imigo Montoya
Originally by: Kalle Demos
You do know CCP ONLY introduced these anoms in Dominion yeah, you have only had these bot havens just over a year AND 0.0 never even gained any population, removing them would hardly result in losing players.


I didn't address this point (the bolded part) earlier because I needed to find proof first, but this is just plain wrong.

If you look at the QENs since Dominion (Q2 2010 and Q3 2010) you will see (on page 13 or 14) that not only has the population of nullsec grown, the percentage of the total population that are in nullsec has also grown.

Fact checking makes a difference when trying to present a case.


This new change will drive people out of 0.0. Who is going to want to move to space with no moon goo AND no way of benefitting from upgraded systems?

CCP didn't think this one through at all. Maybe its a way of driving up Plex prices or something but i'm not sure how it benefits anyone other than the guys with 4 or 5 accounts, where 4 of them live in high sec AFK mission running.

Jita Tradedrone
Posted - 2011.03.29 10:50:00 - [1371]
 

Originally by: Spurty
Although I don't believe this change is that much of a game changer, if this thread gets to 50 pages, I'll be changing my mind lol.

Go for it CCP.

This *change* has clearly created 'friction' at some level.

Its doubtful it'll boil into war and fracturing of mega-alliances but may cause a deflation in the numbers of their membership who aren't there because they like the people they are playing with, but for the access to lucrative space.



that depends on the fact if you are in one of the power blocks that have the lucrative moons and/or the good space, or the lowly renter corp/alliance with the ****ty space and the low end moons (that can be found in low sec also)

for the 1st nothing changes, the second get a nice reset back to hi/low. Because 0.0 without income to pay rent and not the caps to actually lay a claim to (crappy) space without paying rent it will just be back off to hi or low sec.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.29 10:57:00 - [1372]
 

Originally by: Spurty
Although I don't believe this change is that much of a game changer, if this thread gets to 50 pages, I'll be changing my mind lol.

Go for it CCP.

This *change* has clearly created 'friction' at some level.

Its doubtful it'll boil into war and fracturing of mega-alliances but may cause a deflation in the numbers of their membership who aren't there because they like the people they are playing with, but for the access to lucrative space.



Friction between players and CCP? Definitely.

Friction between players in the game? I can really see the drone regions turning into a major war zone the moment this goes live, because people really fought massive, endless wars over that area before the drone nerf Rolling Eyes

nubos
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:02:00 - [1373]
 

Edited by: nubos on 29/03/2011 11:02:48
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Spurty
Although I don't believe this change is that much of a game changer, if this thread gets to 50 pages, I'll be changing my mind lol.

Go for it CCP.

This *change* has clearly created 'friction' at some level.

Its doubtful it'll boil into war and fracturing of mega-alliances but may cause a deflation in the numbers of their membership who aren't there because they like the people they are playing with, but for the access to lucrative space.



Friction between players and CCP? Definitely.

Friction between players in the game? I can really see the drone regions turning into a major war zone the moment this goes live, because people really fought massive, endless wars over that area before the drone nerf Rolling Eyes


I doubt it that there is any force in eve, capable of attacking drone regions - even nc failed. And after that change of anomalies, drone regions gonna be unstoppable lol

Antmannen
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:12:00 - [1374]
 

Am I a carebear? Yep.
Will these changes hurt my gaming experience within Eve? Most likely
Am I going to suspend my accounts due to this? Don't know, not sure how this will affect things really. I doubt it will do much powerblock-wise, anyway. I don't really see why nullsec by default has to be unstable with wars raging all the time. If these changes forces me into PvPing I will move on to other games (and no, you can't haz my stuff) and I am quite certain that I'm not alone. I don't mind changes but they better have a good reasoning behind them. I don't think these changes will do anything at all about blob warfare. If anything the problems will just increase as there will be even fewer systems worth clogging up.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:15:00 - [1375]
 

Edited by: Marconus Orion on 29/03/2011 11:16:59
Originally by: Abigail La'Fey
As the CEO of a medium size renting corp, I have to say.

This idea blows chunks.


Your alliance is full of nothing but botters who go from belt to belt. How the **** is this change supposed to hurt your income?

StuRyan
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:17:00 - [1376]
 

Originally by: Darth Gustav
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Don't know who's the moron who claimed that he can get 100M/h from sanctums. Perfect Nighthawk pilot here, 10-12 mil per wallet flash minus corp tax (30-36M/h). I don't believe that you can get three times much, even with a carrier.


I can't remember who it was, but he claimed he used three accounts to achieve this. Carrier/Logi/Salvage combo.

Income per account involved would therefore be more like 33M/h.

Don't some miners earn more solo?


And may be that is it right there, i don't think most people salvage **** once its completed. Most people in 0.0 (from what i see) Rat, complete, Rat > complete. they do not waste time salvaging stuff.

Michael Petrov
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:21:00 - [1377]
 

CCP, I really hope you wake up and start listening to your customers. These changes are a horrible idea.

You are really nerfing 0.0 in general, which will result in far fewer pilots coming to nullsec and far more players running L4s and mining in high sec. This is the opposite of your stated goals.

Admiral Goberius
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:23:00 - [1378]
 

a bloo bloo bloo this is what you get for nerfing nanos

0wned

- Gob

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:24:00 - [1379]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 29/03/2011 11:25:00
Originally by: nubos
I doubt it that there is any force in eve, capable of attacking drone regions - even nc failed. And after that change of anomalies, drone regions gonna be unstoppable lol


Don't tell CCP, they might get a clue.

Originally by: Admiral Goberius
a bloo bloo bloo this is what you get for nerfing nanos

0wned

- Gob



Domi's going faster than inties really has some relation to anom nerf.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.03.29 11:38:00 - [1380]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Edited by: Marconus Orion on 29/03/2011 11:16:59
Originally by: Abigail La'Fey
As the CEO of a medium size renting corp, I have to say.

This idea blows chunks.


Your alliance is full of nothing but botters who go from belt to belt. How the **** is this change supposed to hurt your income?


There are bots that can do anomalies now.


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