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Sai Kilshe
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:42:00 - [1111]
 

Going with the predominant sentiment here. Every argument you've presented is not backed up by the facts you present.

This will NOT help smaller alliances get in to 0.0
This will NOT encourage more warfare (do you really think it's lacking?).
This will NOT decrease the power blocks that have evolved.

This WILL encourage people to go further in to "illegal" botting - but then, CCP might not mind the additional income from additional accounts, eh?
This WILL encourage people to buy more plexes to convert to isk since their time spent in game is limited and they can only spend so much time doing non-fun things to fund the few precious hours of FUN they get when they get thrown into lagfest/slideshows that you continually pretend don't exist. But, of course, more plexes bought = more income for CCP, right?

Decrease income in-game = increase income out of game. Shame with all the lip service you give to being against botting and RMT that you're just against it when the RL coin doesn't go into YOUR pocket.

The decision to go forward with this program shows a real disconnect reality and the player base that has supported you for literally years and years.

Skilo
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:42:00 - [1112]
 

Edited by: Skilo on 28/03/2011 19:45:05
Here are some numbers for you

Dev blog date 25-03-2011

38 pages in 3 days!!! New Record CCP?

During the last 3 days and including Fanfest you had time to in your words

"It'd be pretty difficult not to notice the fairly strong negative reaction this blog's getting so far, and any time this sort of reaction occurs it's pretty common policy for us to take a pause and do another evaluation pass on the design, taking into account the arguments raised by player"

"We are starting to take another serious look at a range of nullsec issues right now, with an eye to fixing structural issues with the current design"

"we've looked at the concerns brought up here, and done another evaluation pass as mentioned above"

"Have a nice weekend everybody, and I'll try and get back to you with more info next week"

Then after the Fanfest weekend and with a serious look

"we've looked at the concerns brought up here, and done another evaluation pass as mentioned above"

Soo you did that TODAY!!!! Shocked OMG How can CCP pay you to loose 1 FULL DAY with us?!?!?!?!?!

You took 1 FULL DAY to read 38 pages make a new evaluation and say


Screw this let's keep what we plan... i'm still #"%#$ from the partys!!!


Svenne009
Heroes.
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:45:00 - [1113]
 

Quote:
We appreciate that this decision is not going to be regarded as a positive one by most participants of this thread, and we of course respect your right to continue to express your previously-noted disapproval here in a civil manner.

That's all for today,
-Greyscale


Do you even grasp the ammount of players we are talking about here? You may not have noticed, but ALL major + small alliances who reacted here are against the change. Thats a massive ammount of y'r playerbase you are gambling with.

So we can asume you are ignorant or just don't care about this big and enterprising part of y'r playerbase. Thats bad, either way.

TorTorden
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:49:00 - [1114]
 

Edited by: TorTorden on 28/03/2011 19:50:54
I honestly suspect ccp of releasing this blog as a primer.

Like a minister suggestion a 3$ gas tax increase just to set of a lot of flame and rage so swallowing the real plan of a 0.5$ increase to be announced after a few months.

(edit)
Speelinng plobrems.

Tiligean
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:58:00 - [1115]
 

Edited by: Tiligean on 28/03/2011 19:58:00
With all the rage here, I want to know one thing - and I'd love to hear it from someone who lived in nullsec both before and after Dominion was released.

How did you make ISK before Dominion gave you Sanctums? Because I'm wondering what you did to make that (averaged) 75m isk/hr that you can't live without now? Or did you make do with less than 75m isk/hr? How ever did you survive with less? And if the average rate of isk/hr on a Sanctum is 75m, what's a haven? 50m? what's a hub? 20m? what's a port? 10m?

Seriously. Everyone here is frothing at the mouth because CCP is going to reduce the number of systems where you can make 75 million ISK/hr.

Seriously?

Locii
Posted - 2011.03.28 19:58:00 - [1116]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Hey everyone,

It'd be pretty difficult not to notice the fairly strong negative reaction this blog's getting so far, and any time this sort of reaction occurs it's pretty common policy for us to take a pause and do another evaluation pass on the design, taking into account the arguments raised by players. Obviously we're in the middle of fanfest right now so everything takes a little longer than usual, but I'm going to talk to some people tomorrow, get some other perspectives, and figure out whether or not we're still happy with both the direction and the details here.

We are starting to take another serious look at a range of nullsec issues right now, with an eye to fixing structural issues with the current design. Be aware that fixing the problems we're facing is very likely going to involve disrupting the current status quo, and in at least some cases I'm expecting us to push through changes we're confident in despite (expected) negative feedback. We have to consider the long-term big picture, and that priority may sometimes conflict with the immediate interests of some elements of the playerbase. That said, this may or may not be one of those occasions - watch this space.

Have a nice weekend everybody, and I'll try and get back to you with more info next week
-Greyscale


Hi again,

Update on the above post: we've looked at the concerns brought up here, and done another evaluation pass as mentioned above. The outcome of this is that, while we understand and appreciate that these changes will negatively impact residents in some areas of space in the short term, we feel that on balance they are still likely to result in a noticeably positive overall outcome in the long run. This decision is mainly predicated on the fact that we still have a sufficient degree of confidence in our models of nullsec causality.

We understand that many players have alternate models that predict negative outcomes; we will of course be monitoring developments post-deployment to confirm whether or not things are developing in the way we are predicting, with an eye to modifying the proposed system if we see unexpected negative outcomes occurring, but we don't believe that the arguments raised by players in this thread weaken our model sufficiently to justify changing our plans at this stage.

We appreciate that this decision is not going to be regarded as a positive one by most participants of this thread, and we of course respect your right to continue to express your previously-noted disapproval here in a civil manner.

That's all for today,
-Greyscale


id liek to see this data tbfh.

as a mid sized corp that dosnt have access to decent moons and living in 0.0 this is gonna hit hard. we have already noticed a drop in tax income since the anom respawn time was bumped to 6mins, and we currenty have 2 systems being shared between our corp and both aparently are having 1 sanctum removed due to this change.
we fund our pvp replacments from our tax income, players pay most and we take the insurance costs away from them. this change is only going to slow down our ambissions and hinder us doing the same thing as your stated goals are.

you have no ****ing idea imho about this changes and how they will effect a massive number of players.
i might be wrong but im not taking the word of ccp for it. prove it share your information or as many peopel in this thred have already stated, i call you on your bull****

Black Craig
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:00:00 - [1117]
 

CCP What the hell you guys doing? Speechless!

All I can say CCP FIRE Greyscale before he single handed destroys EVE.
If you want to make something better FIX the LAG! That will make people happy. You guys remember anything about that making customers happy?

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:01:00 - [1118]
 

Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 28/03/2011 20:01:05
Next up; jump bridge nerfs.

NC bend over and take it!!!!

Very HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery Happy

SirJoJo
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:02:00 - [1119]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Hey everyone,

It'd be pretty difficult not to notice the fairly strong negative reaction this blog's getting so far, and any time this sort of reaction occurs it's pretty common policy for us to take a pause and do another evaluation pass on the design, taking into account the arguments raised by players. Obviously we're in the middle of fanfest right now so everything takes a little longer than usual, but I'm going to talk to some people tomorrow, get some other perspectives, and figure out whether or not we're still happy with both the direction and the details here.

We are starting to take another serious look at a range of nullsec issues right now, with an eye to fixing structural issues with the current design. Be aware that fixing the problems we're facing is very likely going to involve disrupting the current status quo, and in at least some cases I'm expecting us to push through changes we're confident in despite (expected) negative feedback. We have to consider the long-term big picture, and that priority may sometimes conflict with the immediate interests of some elements of the playerbase. That said, this may or may not be one of those occasions - watch this space.

Have a nice weekend everybody, and I'll try and get back to you with more info next week
-Greyscale


Hi again,

Update on the above post: we've looked at the concerns brought up here, and done another evaluation pass as mentioned above. The outcome of this is that, while we understand and appreciate that these changes will negatively impact residents in some areas of space in the short term, we feel that on balance they are still likely to result in a noticeably positive overall outcome in the long run. This decision is mainly predicated on the fact that we still have a sufficient degree of confidence in our models of nullsec causality.

We understand that many players have alternate models that predict negative outcomes; we will of course be monitoring developments post-deployment to confirm whether or not things are developing in the way we are predicting, with an eye to modifying the proposed system if we see unexpected negative outcomes occurring, but we don't believe that the arguments raised by players in this thread weaken our model sufficiently to justify changing our plans at this stage.

We appreciate that this decision is not going to be regarded as a positive one by most participants of this thread, and we of course respect your right to continue to express your previously-noted disapproval here in a civil manner.

That's all for today,
-Greyscale



Good stuff.

keep up the good work at making eve a little harder and about conflicts

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:04:00 - [1120]
 

Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 28/03/2011 20:47:58
Originally by: Tiligean
Edited by: Tiligean on 28/03/2011 19:58:00
With all the rage here, I want to know one thing - and I'd love to hear it from someone who lived in nullsec both before and after Dominion was released.

How did you make ISK before Dominion gave you Sanctums? Because I'm wondering what you did to make that (averaged) 75m isk/hr that you can't live without now? Or did you make do with less than 75m isk/hr? How ever did you survive with less? And if the average rate of isk/hr on a Sanctum is 75m, what's a haven? 50m? what's a hub? 20m? what's a port? 10m?


Seriously. Everyone here is frothing at the mouth because CCP is going to reduce the number of systems where you can make 75 million ISK/hr.

Seriously?


I mined in querious before the change. I wasn't really making 75 million though more like 55. Maxed out hulk mining M B C ores, (A doesn't exist in Querious, or at least where i was.) Afterward I switched to ratting with two carriers. Both with sentry damage upgrades. and a third account with a pair of capital shield transfers repping him in a dessy cleaning. Made about 100 mil per hour total as I had moved to Scalding pass. The rats there drop 16 mil of trit bars per sanctum on top of the bounties.

Link to how much your region is going to suck


SirJoJo
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:05:00 - [1121]
 

Originally by: Black Craig
CCP What the hell you guys doing? Speechless!

All I can say CCP FIRE Greyscale before he single handed destroys EVE.
If you want to make something better FIX the LAG! That will make people happy. You guys remember anything about that making customers happy?


usually having some arguments helps your case, most of all the arguments made by ppl against the changes have been nothing but smack and whine, some few ppl hav made good post but only few,

your post are exactly the kind of post thats absolutely worthless and not helping anything,

Siradas
Amarr
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:12:00 - [1122]
 

I lived in provi pre dominion and had no problem making isk what are you ALL *****ING ABOUT?

Lord Lightcloud
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:14:00 - [1123]
 

This is the worst idea CCP have ever come up with. Someone needs to lose their job...

Siradas
Amarr
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:15:00 - [1124]
 

Originally by: Lord Lightcloud
This is the worst idea CCP have ever come up with. Someone needs to lose their job...

All the RMTers who farm sanctums all day?

Nurgl3
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:16:00 - [1125]
 

Originally by: Siradas
I lived in provi pre dominion and had no problem making isk what are you ALL *****ING ABOUT?


LOL how many people where living there compaired to now.

Lord Lightcloud
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:17:00 - [1126]
 

Originally by: Siradas
Originally by: Lord Lightcloud
This is the worst idea CCP have ever come up with. Someone needs to lose their job...

All the RMTers who farm sanctums all day?


You.

Siradas
Amarr
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:17:00 - [1127]
 

Edited by: Siradas on 28/03/2011 20:18:10
Originally by: Nurgl3
Originally by: Siradas
I lived in provi pre dominion and had no problem making isk what are you ALL *****ING ABOUT?


LOL how many people where living there compaired to now.


Alot more were living there compared to now probbly and I make isk of complexes and exploration

Ransom Note
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:18:00 - [1128]
 

Edited by: Ransom Note on 28/03/2011 21:24:55
Greyscale - take your gaming model and ram it up your chuff.

Quote:
...and we of course respect your right to continue to express your previously-noted disapproval here in a civil manner


in other words please hold still and whisper sweet nothings while we **** your ass! You've got to be kidding. Just because you use words like "Civil" and "Causality" doesn't mean that you didn't steal from me as surely as if you helped yourself to my wallet, the moment you decide to revoke my investment in system infrastructure and upgrades, not even mentioning the time and manpower needed to put it all together.

You are one shabby, shabby outfit CCP.

Tania Russ
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:18:00 - [1129]
 

Ok so let me get this straight:

-We just got through paying billions for upgrades and hundreds of millions a month for the same.
-The main advantage to doing this is that we got sanctums and havens where the average joe can make a bit of isk.
-We have been through hell out here fighting off pirates, griefers, afk cloakers, momship blobbers, and every other asshat who likes to harass and annoy us in our space.
-Now we need to go and attack some other guys deeper in nullsec in order to be able to make that same bit of isk?
-Or, we could just go back to empire and run L4 mishes, and save the sov bills, and make more isk than we currently are making in our 0.0-0.2 systems?

How is this supposed to encourage more people to live in nullsec, dare I ask?

CCP, if you don't like botters ratting sanctums and making huge isk then fix the botting problem! This nerf undermines every reason we have for taking on the massive hassle that is nullsec. unbelievable.

Petition this people.

Tiligean
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:23:00 - [1130]
 

Originally by: Cyrus Doul
...(sic) I made about 100 mil per hour.


Originally by: Tania Russ
we got sanctums and havens where the average joe can make a bit of isk


Yeah, geez, I really feel for your average joe only making 100 mil per hour.

Starkiller Adams
Gallente
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:23:00 - [1131]
 

Guys guys if we want to have cool new turrent models apparently we need to give up our sactums and havens

Tegho
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:26:00 - [1132]
 

The anomaly system was designed to bring people out to null sec, which it clearly has done. Now you're planning to remove a large portion of the anomalies that are available to run? And you expect everyone to go where?

Yes, lower security systems should be better. The better change would be to scale up the bounties paid on NPCs, as you go farther down in security level.

Lady RAWR
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:30:00 - [1133]
 

Is this really the best idea and update you can think of?

Terrible when looking at everything else you could fix/improve.

Good thing the new Starwars game comes out soon.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:31:00 - [1134]
 

Totally nerf the mostly legit ratting in anoms (since H-bot's sanctum runner is bugged) while leaving the more heavily botted belt ratting alone!

Awesome plan CCP, A+, bang up job.

Locii
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:31:00 - [1135]
 

Originally by: Tegho
The anomaly system was designed to bring people out to null sec, which it clearly has done. Now you're planning to remove a large portion of the anomalies that are available to run? And you expect everyone to go where?

Yes, lower security systems should be better. The better change would be to scale up the bounties paid on NPCs, as you go farther down in security level.


but that would mean they have to spend more than 5 mins fixing something and anyone thats played teh game knows tahts not the ccp way

sylvester stallowned
Trotters Independent Trading
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:33:00 - [1136]
 

Edited by: sylvester stallowned on 28/03/2011 20:34:11
Love this change! nullsec carebear risk free isk generation needs a nerf so bad...

Remove Jumpbridges too please <3

Lord Lightcloud
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:34:00 - [1137]
 

Edited by: Lord Lightcloud on 28/03/2011 20:34:23
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
we still have a sufficient degree of confidence in our models of nullsec causality.
-Greyscale


How can you possibly think that....?

Starkiller Adams
Gallente
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:34:00 - [1138]
 

Originally by: sylvester stallowned
Love this change! nullsec carebare risk free isk generation needs a nerf so bad...

Remove Jumpbridges too please <3


no then we will go gank your high sec carebear ass for isk

Pyrostasis
Caldari
TDK Industries
Bi Winning Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:37:00 - [1139]
 

Originally by: sylvester stallowned
Edited by: sylvester stallowned on 28/03/2011 20:34:11
Love this change! nullsec carebear risk free isk generation needs a nerf so bad...

Remove Jumpbridges too please <3


Hell yeah then everyone can simply go back to empire and make isk safely chain running 4's and you see a significant drop in overall 0.0 participation.

The power block will still exist, but both sides will see a reduction in overall players as they move back to empire. For those that want pvp and targets to shoot this is pretty much a bad idea and its not even close.

Less people in 0.0 = less targets to shoot = less kill and less pvp.

Less people making money = less people buying ships = less ships to shoot.

That power block is still going to be a power block, the smaller guys just wont be able to field ships

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.03.28 20:37:00 - [1140]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
...

Good call. Implement and tweak as needed.

By the way, could you kick people around you so we can get some preliminary data/blogs on what else is being worked on to fix the atrocity that is Dominion?
For instance, is the null industrial sector going to get a boost so we can wean alliances off Jita?

PS: Just don't mention bridges until you are ready (read: medicated) and you should be fine .


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