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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:34:00 - [841]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 27/03/2011 14:34:12
Originally by: Traska Gannel
Many individual players rely on anomalies to pay for PVP ships. T2 fitted HACs, Recons, Command Ships and Battleships run 200 million ISK or more each (wide range but 100 to 250mil would be typical). Insurance only covers a fraction of the hull costs and none of the fittings. In addition, alliances depend on the tax revenues generated to cover the monthly costs of sov structures or to fund PVP ship replacement programs.


Think about what you're saying here for a second. Players are relying on anomolies to get the ISK they need to throw away expensive ships in a fight.

This is one of the problems I'm tired of seeing. Ship losses need to hurt more than an hour or two of ratting to make up for the loss.

Shivalla
Gallente
Financial Removal
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:38:00 - [842]
 

To all the whiners and crying nubcakes.

HTFU!

bloody johnroberts
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:44:00 - [843]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 27/03/2011 14:34:12
Originally by: Traska Gannel
Many individual players rely on anomalies to pay for PVP ships. T2 fitted HACs, Recons, Command Ships and Battleships run 200 million ISK or more each (wide range but 100 to 250mil would be typical). Insurance only covers a fraction of the hull costs and none of the fittings. In addition, alliances depend on the tax revenues generated to cover the monthly costs of sov structures or to fund PVP ship replacement programs.


Think about what you're saying here for a second. Players are relying on anomolies to get the ISK they need to throw away expensive ships in a fight.

This is one of the problems I'm tired of seeing. Ship losses need to hurt more than an hour or two of ratting to make up for the loss.


omg what are you saying if that is the case we would still blob but in rifters

NPC Corp Scout
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:46:00 - [844]
 

This should be expanded to cover npc and unupgraded systems as well.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:46:00 - [845]
 

Originally by: bloody johnroberts
omg what are you saying if that is the case we would still blob but in rifters


And thus the game would be fun again; small ships would matter, large ships would hurt to lose, and the ****-swinging contest of who can get the most supercapitals in system at the same time would no longer exist. Power creep sucks.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:48:00 - [846]
 

Originally by: bloody johnroberts
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 27/03/2011 14:34:12
Originally by: Traska Gannel
Many individual players rely on anomalies to pay for PVP ships. T2 fitted HACs, Recons, Command Ships and Battleships run 200 million ISK or more each (wide range but 100 to 250mil would be typical). Insurance only covers a fraction of the hull costs and none of the fittings. In addition, alliances depend on the tax revenues generated to cover the monthly costs of sov structures or to fund PVP ship replacement programs.


Think about what you're saying here for a second. Players are relying on anomolies to get the ISK they need to throw away expensive ships in a fight.

This is one of the problems I'm tired of seeing. Ship losses need to hurt more than an hour or two of ratting to make up for the loss.


omg what are you saying if that is the case we would still blob but in rifters


And that would be horrible because

Althos Silverwing
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:48:00 - [847]
 

Originally by: Phaershalee
LOL! CCP you have no clue about nullsec.


Exactly, I am in Nullsec not to farm Sanctums and Havens, though they are nice change, but I farm Grav Sites and Magnometric Sites. My alliance and Corp do all the Moon Mining and we produce what is needed to create our ships, this change will only push more and more players away because it will in essense destroy the fragile balance we already have. The Last 4 Wars that we have had placed against us were not over Moon Goo, Sanctums, or Asteroids, it was silly High Sec Corps who wanted to be able to Target our freighters and jump freighters coming into low sec and high sec systems. Get a ****ing clue CCP, this will only cost you in lost revenue from more and more players going over to other games.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:54:00 - [848]
 

Originally by: Althos Silverwing
Originally by: Phaershalee
LOL! CCP you have no clue about nullsec.


Exactly, I am in Nullsec not to farm Sanctums and Havens, though they are nice change, but I farm Grav Sites and Magnometric Sites. My alliance and Corp do all the Moon Mining and we produce what is needed to create our ships, this change will only push more and more players away because it will in essense destroy the fragile balance we already have. The Last 4 Wars that we have had placed against us were not over Moon Goo, Sanctums, or Asteroids, it was silly High Sec Corps who wanted to be able to Target our freighters and jump freighters coming into low sec and high sec systems. Get a ****ing clue CCP, this will only cost you in lost revenue from more and more players going over to other games.


Wait, what? Confused

Armaos
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:56:00 - [849]
 

Moar Isk = More fun PvP because of the more specialized ships that can be used and lost without requiring massive amounts of grinding to replace them.

You think grinding isk is a fun activity ?

I am seriously starting to believe that all the people that support this change have either 'support from 3rd party applications', more money in RL than sense, or are just trolling.

You have a problem with SC's NERF THEM, have problems with lag deal with it by for instance requiring assets in different systems to be hit at the same time.

On a final note I REALLY REALLY want to see how anything BUT the big players are going to hit systems that have a ton of SC's parked just inside the shields of death star poses ready to protect the handfull of truly important systems. If o2o is anything to go by NO ONE in his right mind will risk taking these kind of losses for a handfull of sanctums.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:59:00 - [850]
 

Originally by: Armaos
Moar Isk = More fun PvP because of the more specialized ships that can be used and lost without requiring massive amounts of grinding to replace them.

You think grinding isk is a fun activity ?

I am seriously starting to believe that all the people that support this change have either 'support from 3rd party applications', more money in RL than sense, or are just trolling.

You have a problem with SC's NERF THEM, have problems with lag deal with it by for instance requiring assets in different systems to be hit at the same time.

On a final note I REALLY REALLY want to see how anything BUT the big players are going to hit systems that have a ton of SC's parked just inside the shields of death star poses ready to protect the handfull of truly important systems. If o2o is anything to go by NO ONE in his right mind will risk taking these kind of losses for a handfull of sanctums.


Actually, last time I checked, the number of dying ships has gone down, not up. The evidence does not appear to match your claims that easier access to happy carebear times results in more PVP. Too many people collect ISK for the sake of collecting ISK. Apparently yes, for a lot of people, grinding ISK is fun. I don't really enjoy it, myself, but there are an awful lot of people running L4s who never touch PVP, even with alt accounts.

Super Capitals need a nerf, faucets need to be cranked down, and transportation needs to become more difficult. I know you won't like it, but hey, harden up; it'll be better in the long run.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.27 15:18:00 - [851]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 27/03/2011 15:26:58
Edited by: Super Whopper on 27/03/2011 15:25:40
Originally by: Kalle Demos
Guys you are missing the point, sanctums were a risk free way for players to fund themselves to fight for their masters, while masters kept all the ISK and let it flow with moon goo.


From SHC, where people do know what they're talking about.



Doesn't count NPC sov systems in each region

A: 0.0 to -0.2 (no sanctums/havens!)
B: -0.3 to -0.4 (probably havens but few or no sanctums)
C: -0.5 to -0.6 (slightly worse than now)
D: -0.7 to -0.8 (slightly better than now)
E: -0.9 to -1.0 (much better than now)

Code:

| Region | A | B | C | D | E | |
|----------------------+----+----+----+----+----+-----------|
| The Spire | 3 | 9 | 28 | 18 | 14 | DRF (d) |
| Cobalt Edge | 7 | 19 | 19 | 10 | 14 | DRF (d) |
| Malpais | 8 | 22 | 27 | 34 | 11 | DRF (d) |
| Perrigen Falls | 4 | 9 | 39 | 42 | 10 | DRF (d) |
| Etherium Reach | 6 | 13 | 37 | 34 | 10 | DRF (d) |
| The Kalevala Expanse | 6 | 16 | 19 | 17 | 10 | DRF (d) |
| Outer Passage | 12 | 22 | 15 | 28 | 8 | DRF (d) |
| Oasa | 12 | 16 | 24 | 24 | 8 | DRF (d) |
| Delve | 16 | 10 | 20 | 16 | 8 | PL(for sale)|
| Tenal | 27 | 17 | 9 | 7 | 8 | NC |
| Feythabolis | 29 | 28 | 18 | 6 | 8 | CAAASEROL |
| Branch | 17 | 25 | 25 | 20 | 7 | NC |
| Period Basis | 9 | 11 | 6 | 3 | 7 | ? |
| Cache | 17 | 11 | 6 | 1 | 7 | DRF |
| Deklein | 7 | 6 | 22 | 27 | 6 | NC/DC |
| Fountain | 43 | 21 | 14 | 8 | 6 | NC/DC |
| Querious | 31 | 15 | 11 | 12 | 5 | ? |
| Insmother | 37 | 27 | 30 | 10 | 4 | DRF |
| Omist | 12 | 18 | 6 | 3 | 4 | DRF |
| Vale of the Silent | 48 | 46 | 10 | 11 | 3 | NC |
| Catch | 59 | 15 | 15 | 8 | 3 | CAAASEROL |
| Esoteria | 30 | 20 | 15 | 6 | 3 | CAAASEROL |
| Paragon Soul | 20 | 6 | 2 | 1 | 3 | CAAASEROL |
| Tenerifis | 29 | 28 | 12 | 10 | 2 | CAAASEROL |
| Detorid | 26 | 39 | 23 | 6 | 2 | DRF |
| Scalding Pass | 30 | 15 | 10 | 6 | 2 | DRF |
| Geminate | 26 | 28 | 13 | 3 | 2 | NC |
| Immensea | 20 | 29 | 26 | 9 | 0 | DRF |
| Wicked Creek | 22 | 38 | 15 | 7 | 0 | DRF |
| Tribute | 27 | 14 | 6 | 7 | 0 | NC |
| Impass | 21 | 19 | 7 | 3 | 0 | CAAASEROL |
| Cloud Ring | 8 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | NC/DC |
| Fade | 2 | 20 | 5 | 0 | 0 | NC |
| Providence | 68 | 12 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Ev0ke |
| Pure Blind | 58 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | NC/DC |

As you see, you haven't got the slightest clue what you're talking about. You see all those area's with all those horrible systems? They're going to be empty.

Well done CCP, you're going to depopulate 0.0

Here's the link but easier to read.

Armaos
Posted - 2011.03.27 15:32:00 - [852]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Armaos
Moar Isk = More fun PvP because of the more specialized ships that can be used and lost without requiring massive amounts of grinding to replace them.

You think grinding isk is a fun activity ?

I am seriously starting to believe that all the people that support this change have either 'support from 3rd party applications', more money in RL than sense, or are just trolling.

You have a problem with SC's NERF THEM, have problems with lag deal with it by for instance requiring assets in different systems to be hit at the same time.

On a final note I REALLY REALLY want to see how anything BUT the big players are going to hit systems that have a ton of SC's parked just inside the shields of death star poses ready to protect the handfull of truly important systems. If o2o is anything to go by NO ONE in his right mind will risk taking these kind of losses for a handfull of sanctums.


Actually, last time I checked, the number of dying ships has gone down, not up. The evidence does not appear to match your claims that easier access to happy carebear times results in more PVP. Too many people collect ISK for the sake of collecting ISK. Apparently yes, for a lot of people, grinding ISK is fun. I don't really enjoy it, myself, but there are an awful lot of people running L4s who never touch PVP, even with alt accounts.

Super Capitals need a nerf, faucets need to be cranked down, and transportation needs to become more difficult. I know you won't like it, but hey, harden up; it'll be better in the long run.


It all depends on what you define as PvP, the massive CTA's to protect strategic assets are not PvP in my book, FC's throwing hundreds of ships away when the result is already predetermined just by taking a look at the enemy's order of battle is not fun.( BC vs BS anyone ??? ).

Roaming with a bunch of machariels and picking fights deep into enemy territory coming head to head with carriers supported by BS and the occasional SC on the other hand is something beautifull to behold. And you NEED this specialised squad for two reasons:
a) to make it worthwhile for someone to come kill you and not just pos up.
b) to have a chance vs the cap ships that are almost everywhere these days.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.27 15:44:00 - [853]
 

Throwing away hundreds of ships means minerals are taken out of the market and used.

Currently ship destruction may be down but after the summer holidays at least one entity goes on a rampage also ship destruction may be down but actual financial/mineral loss is much higher, unless you're saying losing a titan/super cap fleet is as easy to replace as a fleet of BC's/BS's.

Therefore, you are simply wrong.

Daxation
Posted - 2011.03.27 15:44:00 - [854]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 27/03/2011 14:34:12
Originally by: Traska Gannel
Many individual players rely on anomalies to pay for PVP ships. T2 fitted HACs, Recons, Command Ships and Battleships run 200 million ISK or more each (wide range but 100 to 250mil would be typical). Insurance only covers a fraction of the hull costs and none of the fittings. In addition, alliances depend on the tax revenues generated to cover the monthly costs of sov structures or to fund PVP ship replacement programs.


Think about what you're saying here for a second. Players are relying on anomolies to get the ISK they need to throw away expensive ships in a fight.

This is one of the problems I'm tired of seeing. Ship losses need to hurt more than an hour or two of ratting to make up for the loss.


I think we need to go back to the times of where having a capital fleet was a rare thing. Why not increase the costs of building capital ships?

Here's a fabulous idea, give titans their AOE Doomsday back. It'll be a counter towards blobs. Granted they'd need to put coded features in to keep a single titan from annihilating 20 battleships with a single DD.

JackBlasta
Minmatar
Use Of Weapons
Posted - 2011.03.27 15:48:00 - [855]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
Edited by: Soldarius on 27/03/2011 09:50:16
So let me see if I get this right. CCP will concentrate sanctums and havens in lower true-sec systems.

The problem with this is that people who wish to finance their PvP through destroying little red crosses now must relocate in order to maintain their income level. No doubt many will simply quit nul and go back to losec for small-gang PvP, or back to missioning.

With less PvP, there will be less need for ships. Manufacturers will leave nulsec because there won't be any opportunities to make isk by building cool things and selling to players. With less things being built, there will be less need for raw materials. Miners will quit nul and go back to high sec.

A lot of nul is about to empty out. This change runs completely counter to CCP's stated goal of getting more people out to nul. Small alliances will not have the means to take space from alliances with better space.

"He who controls the spice, controls the universe."

Tech holding alliances will still have cash flow. This will have no direct influence on them. However, with their smaller partners unable to finance themselves in their current space, they will have to start spreading the wealth to members instead of buying more supers or dropping more station eggs. Otherwise, they will have to relocate or quit nul entirely.

System with good moons and/or lots of belts will become more valuable. Best true-sec systems will of course become more valuable. Because of the sudden decrease in total sanctums/havens and the wrecks they produce, salvage will become harder to acquire in nul. Rigs will get harder to find and thus more expensive. You know how much Large Trimarks or Shield Extenders cost these days? You can buy an entire battle ship for the cost of a set of Large Trimarks.

Without the personal income from sanctums and havens, players will need to rely on subsidies from the alliance in the form of more reimbursements. Big alliances without good true-sec may have to open up the alliance wallet and spread some moon-goo jew juice to their members instead of buying more supers or dropping more stations.

Or, they can return to mission running alts in hisec, meaning they won't be around to fight for and protect their nul-sec space. In which case, what's the point?

This won't do diddly to botters. They tend to belt rat.

Personally, it won't make much of a difference to me. I make most of my isk from hisec trading.

Edit: Oh snap! Top of page! Very Happy


any longterm player using sanctums to keep themselves in ships is a maroon of the highest order imho. Once you have a decent amount of capital build up, its better to trade and play the contracts market. Although we're talking about the NC here so I guess my advice is wasted on the hordes of knownothings such as yourself. Just quit whining ffs though

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:01:00 - [856]
 

Originally by: Daxation
Here's a fabulous idea, give titans their AOE Doomsday back. It'll be a counter towards blobs. Granted they'd need to put coded features in to keep a single titan from annihilating 20 battleships with a single DD.


It is the price of minerals that determines how much super caps cost and they're not cheap already. The problem isn't cost of production, it's moon distribution. When PL were living in Venal they lost 8 titans and replaced them all immediately, because they were making more than they could lose. Now look at Providence and there's a MASSIVE problem.

Originally by: JackBlasta
any longterm player using sanctums to keep themselves in ships is a maroon of the highest order imho. Once you have a decent amount of capital build up, its better to trade and play the contracts market. Although we're talking about the NC here so I guess my advice is wasted on the hordes of knownothings such as yourself. Just quit whining ffs though


Different play styles. How dare we! All you people out there mining, you heard it from some nub who thinks you should be doing something else because he says so.

If I wasn't so tired I'd find the Picard facepalm picture.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:11:00 - [857]
 

You are all missing the point. This change in some form and others will happen, period dot the end.

The Dev Blog is fluff, do you think the investor's give a crap about "We're pretty happy with the increase in useful space, but having a densely populated nullsec is less important to us than having an interesting, vibrant and entertaining nullsec."

Why? Eve Onlne is a business not your own little private game world. Investor's want to see revenue growth, flat income doesn't cut it.

Less income for the average pilot is good for CCP's wallet, at least temporarily. 0.0 income will be nerfed, mission income will be nerfed, various other forms of income will be nerfed along the way.

Then players who still wish to play and PVP and lose ships will have many alt accounts (money in CCP's wallet) to grind income sources. Botting will definately proliferate more widely (money in CCP's wallet) hence CCP doesn't give a damn about what you think about the current botting and willl do nothing about it, a paying acct is a paying acct. The other option will be to buy GTC's and sell PLEX to the limited market of moongoo holders, good true sec holders and Trader Online players (more in CCP's wallet). The limited market of PLEX buyers will cause the ISK value of PLEX to drop which will require more GTC/PLEX to generate the same amount of ISK (more in CCP's wallet).

You are now thinking that after bit of time the player base will go to sh!t. No, it will not, sort of. People will unsub and leave but those accts will be replaced by the players that will open the alt accts noted above.

Then, and i guarentee this is already planned by CCP, when that income stream flattens and is no longer growing you will see this on your login page:

Originally by: Frodo Teabaggins
Originally by: Woodiex3
eve 2014 update...

ccp ship price update

Titan $700.95
supercap $400.95
Carrier $100.95
Battleship pack of 5 $125.95

50% DPS increase for 2 hours $10.95
50% HP increase for 2huors $10.95
100% drop rate for 2 hours $20.95

This is where its heading; blogs like this are the start.



fixed again for accuracy


And, finally when CCP has squeezed every last penny from EVE Online and there is no conceivable avenue for revenue growth, you will see EVE Online become a bastard child at CCP until one day it is not worth the effort to reboot the server. The good thing about that is it will most likely mean the end of DUST 666 as well.Laughing

I'm sure I'm missing something but hey I'm just a dumb EVE player, at least until my subs expire in a few months, then i will cancel 3 keep 1 and pew pew on SiSi until they start charging for that.

To make a long story short, stop thinking like an EVE Online character and think like an investor, that is what will drive everything CCP does or does not do and your opinion is meaningless.

insert gay meme here

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:17:00 - [858]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 27/03/2011 16:25:17
Edited by: Super Whopper on 27/03/2011 16:20:49
Have you seen EVE's subscription? It's dropped and investors do care about that.

What doesn't the data compute again, CCP? We need more '18 months' blogs, because if CCP keep going like this the only thing that will be nerfed will be CCP themselves.

Trina Forrest
Caldari
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:28:00 - [859]
 

The most amazing part of this is how disconnected CCP is with their game. This only hurts average players who rely on ratting to maintain their pvp ships/ gain isk for new ships. If this is a factor of creating "isk sink" that ccp was so concerned about then get rid of lvl 4 missions too.

this will have negative side effects, not positive.

1) alt accounts will shrink, CCP openly admitted at their fan fest that more plex are entering the game then leaving.
2) New alliances will NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE IT in 0.0 as they will not have moon goo support themselves, the alternative WAS RATTING HELLO!
3) This will not destablize the north, as tech is what we give a **** about, the only ones who care about rats are the people who never see the benifits directly from tech.

So yet again CCP has convinced so many they should start looking for a new MMO to play. Although I dont think the dev will be fired for being the messenger right away. I do think the loss of revenue will cause lay offs as people start to exit eve. Long term, I think he will eventually be one of the people to be let go as he was the escape goat for this massive piece of **** which is a dev blog.

BTW there are like 3000+ more bugs in the game that could use decoding, how about you start there before ever mentioning another expansion, added content, or possible side projects again.

Just to name 100+ you can start on you should refer to the unity patch notes. Those players actually KNOW whats wrong with your game, how about you hire them to make good decisions so your executives can continue to be clueless and collect pay checks.

Shivalla
Gallente
Financial Removal
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:34:00 - [860]
 

Originally by: Trina Forrest
The most amazing part of this is how disconnected CCP is with their game. This only hurts average players who rely on ratting to maintain their pvp ships/ gain isk for new ships. If this is a factor of creating "isk sink" that ccp was so concerned about then get rid of lvl 4 missions too.

this will have negative side effects, not positive.

1) alt accounts will shrink, CCP openly admitted at their fan fest that more plex are entering the game then leaving.
2) New alliances will NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE IT in 0.0 as they will not have moon goo support themselves, the alternative WAS RATTING HELLO!
3) This will not destablize the north, as tech is what we give a **** about, the only ones who care about rats are the people who never see the benifits directly from tech.

So yet again CCP has convinced so many they should start looking for a new MMO to play. Although I dont think the dev will be fired for being the messenger right away. I do think the loss of revenue will cause lay offs as people start to exit eve. Long term, I think he will eventually be one of the people to be let go as he was the escape goat for this massive piece of **** which is a dev blog.

BTW there are like 3000+ more bugs in the game that could use decoding, how about you start there before ever mentioning another expansion, added content, or possible side projects again.

Just to name 100+ you can start on you should refer to the unity patch notes. Those players actually KNOW whats wrong with your game, how about you hire them to make good decisions so your executives can continue to be clueless and collect pay checks.


Dear lord what amount of tears you managed to pack into single post.

Dude seriously, pull your head out of your ***, and look at the big picture.

A) Change
B) Conflicts
C) Eve is dying
D) Has been for past 7 years.
E) NC is crap.
F) U mad?

CorryBasler
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:36:00 - [861]
 

worst idea ever ccp... now all the carebear renters will want to leave

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:42:00 - [862]
 

Originally by: Shivalla
Dear lord what amount of tears you managed to pack into single post.

Dude seriously, pull your head out of your ***, and look at the big picture.

A) Change
B) Conflicts
C) Eve is dying
D) Has been for past 7 years.
E) NC is crap.
F) U mad?


You are mad, and so are CCP, literally.

I used to have 6 accounts. Now I have three. If this change is implemented I will drop another one or two.

So, there's one you missed:
G) Lose subscribers.

Did you look at the graph I linked or too busy trolling?

The Space P0lice on Dotlan: 0 Systems. Empire alliance whining about changes that won't affect them.

Keep trolling, though.

Limonadka
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:42:00 - [863]
 

More isk, more pvp. No isk, no pvp.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:47:00 - [864]
 

Edited by: Marconus Orion on 27/03/2011 17:06:10
The NC says they care about their BFF in those regions that will get a nerf, but what they are truly worried about is renters/guests from giving them the finger on rent. That or finding better space and not being a free buffer zone for them. They could give two ****s about how much money you are making as long as you are a nice buffer paying rent. Thats it. The change would mean some areas players will refuse to pay rent on because it will not be possible to make any decent money there if they have to pay homage to NC. Thus, the end effect will be less alliances will to be blue to them. Simply because being blue with them will have zero benefits.

"You stay here and pay us rent and make sure no one interrupts me while I farm Sanctums all day, ok? And no, you can't come in our space to get some Sanctum action either. Go ratting in a belt renter! BFF right?"

No self respecting alliance will want to be blue with that. Thus, the numbers NC are able to blob anyone with the 30 alliances totaling 49,227 blues they have(as of five days ago) according to their official list here. There will be less buffer to defend their extensive coveted jump bridge network that is here. They depend on that jump bridge network for logistics and power projection heavily. And before you think that people will still go to the destination via the gates, sure... some will. Others will log/afk/whatever but the same number of people willing to take gates will be less than those willing to take the jump bridges. That is a fact!

"But we need their jump bridges to be able to survive!"

No you don't. Before jump bridges people lived out there and they didn't have jump freighters, covert blockade runners and covert bridges to get supplies in. They require more effort than the jump bridge network but it is feasible.

So as the number of alliances willing to pay rent or leave for greener pastures happens, the number in their coalition goes down. Again, they absolutely do not care you will not be able to make the money they can. All they care about is you paying rent, being a buffer to protect them from enemies and you x'ing up to smash your ships on non-blues.

True they will have the money, but the man power will go down. Ever seen 30 Rifters go after a single battleship? The battleship is worth a whole lot more but the Rifters will be too much for him. This is exactly what they don't want to happen. What they want is for any entity that wants to set foot in null to have to check in with them for their blessing. Granted that is not really the case now, but if you don't and settle anywhere remotely close they will drop on you with those 49k+ blues. That number will be far less without all the guests they have now because they will have left/went independent.

So when the change happens and you still want to be BFF with the NC, just tell them in order to compensate for the change, you wont be paying rent anymore. See how they react. Wink You not needing them is what they are scared of. Take this for what you want. Keep paying that rent and being a buffer for them as they farm Sanctums and drink Tech moon goo while you rat in a belt and watch for non-blues for them. Sounds more like a slave than a friend to me. Laughing

samoubica2008
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:48:00 - [865]
 

i live in a -0.01 lowest null sec in eve dose that mean i get no anoms to nomnom though

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:52:00 - [866]
 

Edited by: Arnakoz on 27/03/2011 16:56:42
this just is NOT a good idea.

null is already tiered in terms of corps/alliances via moons. the lower the sec the better the resources. there is your big earning potential.

so this change would only effect individuals. it would basically make it so that, short of being in a rare system, its not worth the extra losses for individuals to be in null:

what the blog basically indicates is that the majority of nullsec will have the same individual earning potential as level 3 missions (low-end anoms) and that paying billions a month will only increase the number of the poor earning sites so that more people can come and earn crap... it just wont work. who as an individual would even bother?

so, you;ll end up with a few systems highly populated and most of null empty. the power blocs that hold those few systems would have so much more ISK than normal alliances that they would only fight amongst themselves and newcomers wouldn't stand a chance.

if anything, common null should have earnings of ~10m/hr (about the same as level 4's, about the same as now) ratting etc; after upgrades.
Rare null systems should have frequent officer spawns/drops and generally make maybe 50% more in all other activities.
that would be tiering that would work. still plenty of people in null, and a desire to take over the "good" systems.

it's just all around a bad idea.


Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.03.27 16:57:00 - [867]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
The NC says they care about their BFF in those regions that will get a nerf, but what they are truly worried about is renters/guests from giving them the finger on rent. That or finding better space and not being a free buffer zone for them. They could give two ****s about how much money you are making as long as you are a nice buffer paying rent. Thats it. The change would mean some areas players will refuse to pay rent on because it will not be possible to make any decent money there if they have to pay homage to NC. Thus, the end effect will be less alliances will to be blue to them. Simply because being blue with them will have zero benefits.

"You stay here and pay us rent and make sure no one interrupts me while I farm Sanctums all day, ok? And no, you can't come in our space to get some Sanctum action either. Go ratting in a belt renter! BFF right?"

No self respecting alliance will want to be blue with that. Thus, the numbers NC are able to blob anyone with the 30 alliances totaling 49,227 blues they have(as of five days ago) according to their official list here. There will be less buffer to defend their extensive coveted jump bridge network that is here. They depend on that jump bridge network for logistics and power projection heavily. And before you think that people will still go to the destination via the gates, sure... some will. Others will log/afk/whatever but the same number of people willing to take gates will be less than those willing to take the jump bridges. That is a fact!

"But we need their jump bridges to be able to survive!"

No you don't. Before jump bridges people lived out there before jump bridges and they didn't have jump freighters, covert blockade runners and covert bridges to get supplies in. They require more effort than the jump bridge network but it is feasible.

So as the number of alliances willing to pay rent or leave for greener pastures happens, the number in their coalition goes down. Again, they absolutely do not care you will not be able to make the money they can. All they care about is you paying rent, being a buffer to protect them from enemies and you x'ing up to smash your ships on non-blues.

True they will have the money, but the man power will go down. Ever seen 30 Rifters go after a single battleship? The battleship is worth a whole lot more but the Rifters will be too much for him. This is exactly what they don't want to happen. What they want is for any entity that wants to set foot in null to have to check in with them for their blessing. Granted that is not really the case now, but if you don't and settle anywhere remotely close they will drop on you with those 49k+ blues. That number will be far less without all the guests they have now because they will have left/went independent.

So when the change happens and you still want to be BFF with the NC, just tell them in order to compensate for the change, you wont be paying rent anymore. See how they react. Wink You not needing them is what they are scared of. Take this for what you want. Keep paying that rent and being a buffer for them as they farm Sanctums and drink Tech moon goo while you rat in a belt and watch for non-blues for them. Sounds more like a slave than a friend to me. Laughing


This really should be posted on every page so people are aware of what NC are really worried about.

After all this anom feature is ONLY a year old, and 0.0 pop has has less activity than pre domin, rolling back to old school isnt going to change anything.

Also this change suggested will fix alot of issues, besies NC if they truly are your friend they will be your meat shield for free <3 BFF >.>

Marconus Orion for CSM!! Laughing

bloody johnroberts
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.27 17:06:00 - [868]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
The NC says they care about their BFF in those regions that will get a nerf, but what they are truly worried about is renters/guests from giving them the finger on rent. That or finding better space and not being a free buffer zone for them. They could give two ****s about how much money you are making as long as you are a nice buffer paying rent. Thats it. The change would mean some areas players will refuse to pay rent on because it will not be possible to make any decent money there if they have to pay homage to NC. Thus, the end effect will be less alliances will to be blue to them. Simply because being blue with them will have zero benefits.

"You stay here and pay us rent and make sure no one interrupts me while I farm Sanctums all day, ok? And no, you can't come in our space to get some Sanctum action either. Go ratting in a belt renter! BFF right?"

No self respecting alliance will want to be blue with that. Thus, the numbers NC are able to blob anyone with the 30 alliances totaling 49,227 blues they have(as of five days ago) according to their official list here. There will be less buffer to defend their extensive coveted jump bridge network that is here. They depend on that jump bridge network for logistics and power projection heavily. And before you think that people will still go to the destination via the gates, sure... some will. Others will log/afk/whatever but the same number of people willing to take gates will be less than those willing to take the jump bridges. That is a fact!

"But we need their jump bridges to be able to survive!"

No you don't. Before jump bridges people lived out there before jump bridges and they didn't have jump freighters, covert blockade runners and covert bridges to get supplies in. They require more effort than the jump bridge network but it is feasible.

So as the number of alliances willing to pay rent or leave for greener pastures happens, the number in their coalition goes down. Again, they absolutely do not care you will not be able to make the money they can. All they care about is you paying rent, being a buffer to protect them from enemies and you x'ing up to smash your ships on non-blues.

True they will have the money, but the man power will go down. Ever seen 30 Rifters go after a single battleship? The battleship is worth a whole lot more but the Rifters will be too much for him. This is exactly what they don't want to happen. What they want is for any entity that wants to set foot in null to have to check in with them for their blessing. Granted that is not really the case now, but if you don't and settle anywhere remotely close they will drop on you with those 49k+ blues. That number will be far less without all the guests they have now because they will have left/went independent.

So when the change happens and you still want to be BFF with the NC, just tell them in order to compensate for the change, you wont be paying rent anymore. See how they react. Wink You not needing them is what they are scared of. Take this for what you want. Keep paying that rent and being a buffer for them as they farm Sanctums and drink Tech moon goo while you rat in a belt and watch for non-blues for them. Sounds more like a slave than a friend to me. Laughing


do you have any clue of how a 0.0 alliance works jumpbridge removal will not change force projection we all use staging systems and we have titans to bridge us.
why all the hate did we deny your application ???

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.27 17:07:00 - [869]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
Originally by: Marconus Orion
The NC says they care about their BFF in those regions that will get a nerf, but what they are truly worried about is renters/guests from giving them the finger on rent. That or finding better space and not being a free buffer zone for them. They could give two ****s about how much money you are making as long as you are a nice buffer paying rent. Thats it. The change would mean some areas players will refuse to pay rent on because it will not be possible to make any decent money there if they have to pay homage to NC. Thus, the end effect will be less alliances will to be blue to them. Simply because being blue with them will have zero benefits.

"You stay here and pay us rent and make sure no one interrupts me while I farm Sanctums all day, ok? And no, you can't come in our space to get some Sanctum action either. Go ratting in a belt renter! BFF right?"

No self respecting alliance will want to be blue with that. Thus, the numbers NC are able to blob anyone with the 30 alliances totaling 49,227 blues they have(as of five days ago) according to their official list here. There will be less buffer to defend their extensive coveted jump bridge network that is here. They depend on that jump bridge network for logistics and power projection heavily. And before you think that people will still go to the destination via the gates, sure... some will. Others will log/afk/whatever but the same number of people willing to take gates will be less than those willing to take the jump bridges. That is a fact!

"But we need their jump bridges to be able to survive!"

No you don't. Before jump bridges people lived out there before jump bridges and they didn't have jump freighters, covert blockade runners and covert bridges to get supplies in. They require more effort than the jump bridge network but it is feasible.

So as the number of alliances willing to pay rent or leave for greener pastures happens, the number in their coalition goes down. Again, they absolutely do not care you will not be able to make the money they can. All they care about is you paying rent, being a buffer to protect them from enemies and you x'ing up to smash your ships on non-blues.

True they will have the money, but the man power will go down. Ever seen 30 Rifters go after a single battleship? The battleship is worth a whole lot more but the Rifters will be too much for him. This is exactly what they don't want to happen. What they want is for any entity that wants to set foot in null to have to check in with them for their blessing. Granted that is not really the case now, but if you don't and settle anywhere remotely close they will drop on you with those 49k+ blues. That number will be far less without all the guests they have now because they will have left/went independent.

So when the change happens and you still want to be BFF with the NC, just tell them in order to compensate for the change, you wont be paying rent anymore. See how they react. Wink You not needing them is what they are scared of. Take this for what you want. Keep paying that rent and being a buffer for them as they farm Sanctums and drink Tech moon goo while you rat in a belt and watch for non-blues for them. Sounds more like a slave than a friend to me. Laughing


This really should be posted on every page so people are aware of what NC are really worried about.

After all this anom feature is ONLY a year old, and 0.0 pop has has less activity than pre domin, rolling back to old school isnt going to change anything.

Also this change suggested will fix alot of issues, besies NC if they truly are your friend they will be your meat shield for free <3 BFF >.>

Marconus Orion for CSM!! Laughing



HAHAHAHA quoting this cause its.....funny.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.27 17:13:00 - [870]
 

Edited by: Marconus Orion on 27/03/2011 17:17:32
Originally by: bloody johnroberts
do you have any clue of how a 0.0 alliance works jumpbridge removal will not change force projection we all use staging systems and we have titans to bridge us.
why all the hate did we deny your application ???


You going to have a titan on standby 23/7 in all of those systems waiting to open up a bridge for a single ship? Two ships? Wait, wait, what about a hauler? I call bull**** on you saying titans will slide in and do the exact same thing the jump bridge network is accomplishing right now. If they remain untouched, they will help yes, but it will not be anywhere close to what the network currently is.

And for future note, I am for a nerf of jump bridges, not a flat removal. And, I am for an overhaul of resources in regions so residents are not required to have a jump bridge network or escort freighters non-stop every day. Anyways, continue with your, "We will have titan pilots mimic the the same network and be on 23/7 willing to bridge any blue that comes along even if they are in a frigate!" argument.

Go ahead, please convince me you have titan pilots on standby and will do this non-stop... Don't forget about those cyno pilots on standby too...

Originally by: Vuk Lau
HAHAHAHA quoting this cause its.....the truth.


Fixed. Wink

So Vuk, will the full NC members share their anomalies with their renters? Lower their rent? Let them be a buffer for free? Please share with everyone. Very Happy


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