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Kariva
Posted - 2011.03.26 18:48:00 - [631]
 

BRAVO CCP
You finaly found a way to reduce BLOBS.
Fu.. off 80% of null sec inhibitants to high sec ....
It's BRILIANT..... how did you get on it ...

IceBlade Rage
Immortalis Silens
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2011.03.26 18:52:00 - [632]
 

Bravo CCP, Bravo.

One of your stated goals was to get more 0.0 space usable, so that more people would be in 0.0. This flies right in the face of that. These changes will force a lot of the smaller groups back into empire, because renters will not be able to pay for their systems, etc.

Ratting systems don't cause conflicts. Moons and ideological differences cause that. Case in point, goons vs it, or the current nc vs drf.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.03.26 18:54:00 - [633]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Short-sighted nonsense


Because if people are already reluctant to PVP because losing their ship is actually a significant loss, making it take 3-4-5x longer to replace a ship is going to be GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for encouraging more PVP!!!!

Or we'll just put all our guys into T1 cruisers!! 20 T1 cruisers is pretty good...
Unless you compare it to the fleets of 20 HAC/20 T3 that currently everyone can support, thanks to system upgrades.

Did you know that one fully upgraded system is already way worse than a decent level 4 agent? You can make about the same isk/hour all told (counting LP of course) but the 0.0 can support maybe 2-3 making that much, whereas a level 4 agent can support infinity people.
Hell, if I wanted to just make a ton of isk, i'd live in Empire. I do my PVE in nullsec because it's more convenient, not because it's more lucrative.

kasai zenpachi
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:02:00 - [634]
 

The problem seems to me that ccp keeps adding to the game without fixing all the issues like lag. I tell you what we have tons of space low sec THAT NO ONE USES. why not make that useful by making low sec NPC 0.0 space OR making more plexes in low sec making them more valuable, so people will either move there or want to travel thru there. The mechanics of low sec sucks, try to adjust that and you will fix the problem, I can travel 30 systems thru low sec and see only 1-2 people every other system if that many.

Icarus Arcani
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:04:00 - [635]
 

Edited by: Icarus Arcani on 26/03/2011 19:12:23
after a brief tally of the first 4 pages (i got bored after 4) of comments its about 10:1 against in terms of posts. Doesnt account for the trollers ofc

populist choices ftw!

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:13:00 - [636]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 26/03/2011 19:18:19
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Hell, if I wanted to just make a ton of isk, i'd live in Empire. I do my PVE in nullsec because it's more convenient, not because it's more lucrative.

many angry words but you don't address the point I am trying to make: pvp being "meaningful" (in the way outlined in my post) and pvp being frequent are design goals that oppose each other.

imo that's common sense, not short-sighted.

You may prefer frequent pvp over hurtful losses but (as I wrote) I took away a very different consensus from numerous WoW-bashing threads over the years.


Van Ketris
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:23:00 - [637]
 

Right now ratting isn't really a reason for people to move around and seek better area's. I'm not necessarily against changing this, but I doubt you will get the intended results you are looking for. Right now we base our homes off of a few things, but most importantly for the majority of the middle of the road alliances it's about who will let you live where. You get the best space you can, and currently that allows you to compete financially on a member to member basis with anyone. If you change that, you will see smaller groups struggle to compete in the pvp arena while learning the ropes.

Sarrgon
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:30:00 - [638]
 

To me, me the crappy 0.0 systems about worthless, how will they pay for their sov, SRP and such. They will never be able to take on the larger alliances / coalition, they will run out of ISK LONG before the larger alliances and coalitions that control the best space already.

Only real way IMO to fix it is to make moongoo like PI. All moons, low sec, high sec or 0.0 anyone can mine from, multiple people per moon etc, like PI. Take away the huge ISK flow that only a few alliances really have. When newer / growing alliances / coalitions see that they can now compete with the larger established alliances / coalitions, they will be much more able to fight them and actually hope to win.

But the newer alliances etc need to make good ISK in the crappy 0.0 systems to even try to make that a reality.

omgdutch2005
Gallente
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:40:00 - [639]
 

join the petition now!

http://www.petitiononline.com/ieg2011/petition.html

Van Ketris
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:50:00 - [640]
 

Here's a perfect example for you to consider. Right now Romanian Legion (RL) lives in Esoteria in the AJG-MV constellation. They were happy with this space for ratting and even though they recently conquered Period Basis (PB) with the help of friends they decided to remain living where they were.

With these changes you propose, you are indeed right, a group like this would most likely have moved to this higher true-sec space. However, what instead happened was they allowed nulli secunda, an up and coming, if not already arrived pvp alliance to move in. Also Vera Cruz, another newer, but upwardly mobile alliance who was living in 1 system, now got a decent chunk of space. The third part of the region is now in the hands of a few smaller alliances hoping to make a name for themselves in 0.0.

With these changes RL will undoubtedly have to move to PB, and as I'm sure we all can guess the people who will get kicked out will be those few "weaker" alliances who could have used the profitable space to get on their feet.

Esoteria

Period Basis

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:51:00 - [641]
 

Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 26/03/2011 19:53:26
Well, i can only hope that this thread keeps growing in size to show CCP that everyone cares. But, according to the massive negative response the idea has received (And yes, different to other MMO forums, EVE's forums is known for having players who do know and care. Just look for threads about Suicide Ganking, AFK Cloaking and Gate Guns and you'll see what i mean.) we can gather one thing: The playerbase does NOT want any kind of null-sec system that has no havens and no sanctums.

CCP Greyscale, please take that into account when you guys rethink this. Give sanctums and havens for -0.01 and work your way up.

Small alliances ALREADY want to move (read: Expand) from the systems they're at, but because of the big power blocks, expanding takes time and study. The exact big power blocks that you will be helping with these changes. Make no mistake having MORE sanctums and MORE havens on their space helps them a lot, since you won't need to dilude the isk with a 5 man fleet running sanctums.


Don't change the number of anomalies based on true-sec. Change the bounty of the anomaly rats based on true-sec.. I would start planning a move RIGHT NOW if sanctum battleships on a -0.95 systems were worth 1.800.000 ISK (Like they are in belts) instead of 1.200.000.



My 65.536 cents.

Kongzhi Sung
Gallente
Marked For Elysium
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:53:00 - [642]
 

Let me get this straight.

You want players to move to nullsec, so you remove the best means for
individuals to pay for doing it ? What are you people smoking?

There will still be guaranteed lesser anomalies? Guess what: they are boring
and the payoff is terrible. Ratting is doable, but more people in belts and
more crowding means even less income, and oh yeah... boredom and frustration.

If you want to nerf player income (because let's be honest, that's your most
likely real goal here), how about using some finesse and forethought.

People have burned vast sums of isk and (far more importantly) their TIME and
effort making their homes worth a damn.. don't take a crap on us all now.

Lord Rapture
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:54:00 - [643]
 

CCP's idea of making eve more interesting. Hey guys, lets force everyone to do more boring **** by making it pay less! surely this will lead to good fights and epic subscription growth?

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:01:00 - [644]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Malcanis
Utterly, utterly shameless CCP fellatio


Get ****ed.

Forcing people who hold bad 0.0 space to move to empire to get anywhere near the same income is not a good change. It means fewer people living in 0.0, which means fewer people able to respond when roaming gangs come through, and fewer incentives to go out roaming anyway (since there's nobody out there to shoot).


Why wouldn't you compete for the better systems? To much hard work?

C.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:06:00 - [645]
 

Originally by: IceBlade Rage
Bravo CCP, Bravo.

One of your stated goals was to get more 0.0 space usable, so that more people would be in 0.0. This flies right in the face of that. These changes will force a lot of the smaller groups back into empire, because renters will not be able to pay for their systems, etc.


Unfortunately, it seems that the people who have come in since then have been botters and appalling carebears. These people should be in highsec where they belong, not in 0.0. It's far to easy to replace ships now; losses should mean something. Making PVE in 0.0 worthwhile just encourages people to waste their time carebearing. Nullsec should be for PVP, not PVE.

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:06:00 - [646]
 

Originally by: Renan Ruivo
The playerbase does NOT want any kind of null-sec system that has no havens and no sanctums.


The general consensus, at least to my understanding, is:
- making truesec more meaningful again (it currently still affects regular belt rats and officer rates etc) is good
- making systems more diverse is good
- reducing the sustainable population density dominion brought to 0.0 is bad
- having people earn their living in the space they live in is good
- even the most uninteresting system should still be interesting enough to offset 0.0 and attract some players
- the ressource reshuffle needs to be broader than just the elimination of some anomalies as a single magical fix

What the mechanic that achieves this is called, who cares?

Matt Fairbanks
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:09:00 - [647]
 

This is a great idea. I am very pleased with the direction that CCP is taking with this new change to null sec. As a null sec resident for the majority of my time playing Eve, I fully support this shift and hope that CCP continues with the direction it is taking.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:13:00 - [648]
 

Originally by: Mioelnir
Originally by: Renan Ruivo
The playerbase does NOT want any kind of null-sec system that has no havens and no sanctums.


The general consensus, at least to my understanding, is:
- making truesec more meaningful again (it currently still affects regular belt rats and officer rates etc) is good
- making systems more diverse is good
- reducing the sustainable population density dominion brought to 0.0 is bad
- having people earn their living in the space they live in is good
- even the most uninteresting system should still be interesting enough to offset 0.0 and attract some players
- the ressource reshuffle needs to be broader than just the elimination of some anomalies as a single magical fix

What the mechanic that achieves this is called, who cares?



Yup, i agree with that view. Like i said, i believe that Greyscale has his heart in the right place, but he's trying to tackle a Dramiel with a Warp Disruptor fit Drake. But tl;dr, its exactly the way i've put it. The playerbase does NOT want null-sec with no havens/sanctums. That's just bad

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:13:00 - [649]
 

Decent pve rats and no local make w-space keep on trucking. Sucks to be you null guys! Laughing

xanavi
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:15:00 - [650]
 

Originally by: Matt Fairbanks
This is a great idea. I am very pleased with the direction that CCP is taking with this new change to null sec. As a null sec resident for the majority of my time playing Eve, I fully support this shift and hope that CCP continues with the direction it is taking.


What he said.

Ok, will you stop crying now Failbanks?

Sensaia
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:23:00 - [651]
 

so is this in a way a promotion to more botters in the game so we can grind more isk in the lower parts of space, or in the space u currently own or rent or rent out to.

but i see this change as just another disaster if its literal taken, there will be more out of Game cash infusion, GTC/ETC [which in a way will affect the ISK value on the ETC/GTC] sure more revenue for CCP but also as mentioned bfor more people that dont have RL isk and will go on the dark path the botter / RMT way.

Its more difficult to come up with a solution that is balanced for everyone but that requires people at CCP to actually play EvE or demand what people in game actually think of such ideas bfor u blog about them with proud, and get a feeling of how things work

VOID SALES
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:24:00 - [652]
 

I am not a fan of this change and though it only stated "anomalies" would be affected what about the other system upgrades? Why are one only getting nerfed or will they all get hit?

Silverskull7
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:25:00 - [653]
 

Edited by: Silverskull7 on 26/03/2011 21:45:01
Edited by: Silverskull7 on 26/03/2011 20:28:35
Edited by: Silverskull7 on 26/03/2011 20:27:23
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Originally by: progodlegend
Originally by: Ancyker


Test isn't in NC genius.


Yes you are, check that blue list again.


Who is blue has nothing to do with who is part of the NC. TEST and Goons are not part of the NC.


Powerblock Map Now look closely, made by Czech Lion who's in NC, I think test at the moment



Back on topic though, This will bring greater balance with the NC having its tech moons and the south having better ratting space. As mentioned by CCP Greyscale more conflict with people wanting better space.

This game is fundamentally about conflict and people knocking over other peoples sand castles. Its the core embodiment of what eve is. However how are you supposed to knock over someone sand castle when they're power block is so Huge?


NC:52k, nearest powerblock DRF: 26k That Numbers trend is going to continue with the NC having good space. So I welcome this change to bring more balance. Coalitions and NAP's are fine its part of human nature however silly big permanent NAP's are not fine and harm the Chaos and destruction gameplay that makes EvE EvE.

I personally find it interesting that majority of the people whining about this change are from the NC (in paticular the pet groups with crappier space) Jump Bridge changes whines are predominately NC as well.

I support this change CCP so ignore the small minded whiners and do what's right for the games long term health.

Tormas Jarsoon
Amarr
Out-of-Space
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:32:00 - [654]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
CCP Greyscale is excited about the changes coming to anomalies. Read all about it here in his latest dev blog.


...im also very exited about this change, exited that its time to move back to empire to do incursions...

Great Job CCP, once more you fail to go the right way...

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:33:00 - [655]
 

Originally by: xanavi
Originally by: Matt Fairbanks
This is a great idea. I am very pleased with the direction that CCP is taking with this new change to null sec. As a null sec resident for the majority of my time playing Eve, I fully support this shift and hope that CCP continues with the direction it is taking.


What he said.

Ok, will you stop crying now Failbanks?
Hehe. Of course you guys are for this change. You have Sov in some of the lowest security space in EVE.

Alexandrea Xi
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:34:00 - [656]
 

So level 4's in high sec will be more profitable than 0.0 ratting. Yeah that's a good plan...

NeedTheFreeForNewShipMen
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:36:00 - [657]
 

Originally by: Silverskull7
Edited by: Silverskull7 on 26/03/2011 20:28:35
Edited by: Silverskull7 on 26/03/2011 20:27:23
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Originally by: progodlegend
Originally by: Ancyker


Test isn't in NC genius.


Yes you are, check that blue list again.


Who is blue has nothing to do with who is part of the NC. TEST and Goons are not part of the NC.


Powerblock Map Now look closely, made by Czech Lion who's in NC, I think test at the moment



Back on topic though, This will bring greater balance with the NC having its tech moons and the south having better ratting space. As mentioned by CCP Greyscale more conflict with people wanting better space.

This game is fundamentally about conflict and people knocking over other peoples sand castles. Its the core embodiment of what eve is. However how are you supposed to knock over someone sand castle when they're power block is so Huge?


NC:52k, nearest powerblock DRF: 26k That Numbers trend is going to continue with the NC having good space. So I welcome this change to bring more balance. Coalitions and NAP's are fine its part of human nature however silly big permanent NAP's are not fine and harm the Chaos and destruction gameplay that makes EvE EvE.

I personally find it interesting that majority of the people whining about this change are from the NC (in paticular the pet groups with crappier space) Jump Bridge changes whines are predominately NC as well.


Maybe, as your graph shows, thats because there's more NC members than any other group? So of course alot of the whines are gonna come from the NC. There's more of them.

Also this change sucks.

Emir Khan
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:36:00 - [658]
 

so now ccp wants people to rather live in high sec than 0.0?? seeing as 90% of 0.0 will now be less profitable than level 4's ???

I'm pretty sure CCP will lose some subs if this goes onto tranq just saying...

Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:38:00 - [659]
 

Originally by: Alexandrea Xi
So level 4's in high sec will be more profitable than 0.0 ratting. Yeah that's a good plan...


This.

'Nuff said.

Quincy Taggart
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:41:00 - [660]
 

All you are doing is ruining the game for 0.0 players as you are removing the major means to fund "conflict" as you call it. There is already conflict every day in 0.0. How about you guys actually listen to your player base and stop screwing things up? How about leaving things as they are and stop trying to make everyone play the game YOUR way? I love the hypocracy that this is a "sand box" where you can do anything you want....well no we can't because you keep trying to force us to play the game one way. I think since all you want is conflict then you should just remove everything from the game that's not PvP related, just give us a hangar full of new ships every day and say the game is nothing more than go out and shoot each other...that's where this is headed. CCP has now reached the "shoot the founders" phase of corporate development and needs to bring in a new management team that listens to the customer base. Sad...just sad.


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