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Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.04.25 21:32:00 - [3361]
 

Edited by: Karl Planck on 25/04/2011 21:33:10
Originally by: Heathyy
Edited by: Heathyy on 25/04/2011 20:35:51
Originally by: Karl Planck
Lol, you shouldn't have fueled the fire. Everyone who posts on this topic is either a troll or is just butthurt about the change.

Fact: its still extremely easy to make isk if you own a moon pos or have 10 bot alts mining away 24/7 < i agree
Fact: if you can't afford to pvp your doing it wrong or your not a neckbeard that sits there carebearing all day.
Fact: if your butthurt about this change then you are/were in a pet alliance and you were just bearing it up in 0.0 where you got to think you were 1337 < being a 0.0 resident is more fun than never leaving jita 4/4 be it pet powerbloc, hell even pirate. pvp without a steady isk income = boring

Cry moar, pls cry moar


I fixed it for you.

I think the only ppl that are allowed to cry in this topic are the ones that actually spent all the isk upgrading their space. its isk they wont get back or even have a chance to reverse.

the fact is you never read any of the pages of this topic, im not denying some ppl do carebear nonstop yet alot of ppl do this with alts while their main is actually out defending space or just roaming around.

if you fail to see that the only players this change affects is mainly the average joe that has no passive income or multiple alts hell even time to just sit there all day grinding. then you are seriously short sighted.


lol, i while your "fixes" are funny they are still wrong. I have read roughly 50% of these pages, and I say 50% because I began skipping the reposts by the same butthurt 0.0 carebears.

Making enough isk is relavent I guess. if you need to afford your own caps, then yes, you either need bots or moon support. Sub caps, which is what the majority of the 'poor' players of 0.0 fly are easy to make the isk to get. And as i said, it is easy to make that isk without carebearing* all day and really hardly at all.

This points more to my second point about 'pvp, your doing it wrong'. If you are losing so much that you need to grind all day to make up your losses then something has gone wrong. If you doing it right, then the losses from drops and salvage should be enough to cover your losses, and if you doing it WELL, then you make a profit off of those.

As far as the last comment you modified you just missed the point. Everyone on here complaining doesn't deserve to live in 0.0 if they can't handle adding more risk to they isk fountains. Living in high sec, yes it is boring (least it was while i was there). But if you think you are any better than those bears in high sec you are wrong. All you are giving yourself is a badge, and the only people you are impressing is yourselves.

I agree, the only people that deserve to have tears is the people who spent isk on sov, but lol, cmon everyone has felt that wrath in one form or another so its not it deserves an apology from CCP. We all know its coming at some point.

As for you last point, you are only half correct. Yes, Joe Pod is the one who is immediately affected as many alliances have forced them to be self sufficient. Now the game isn't as fun for them because they can't be. So they are moving back to empire or rage quitting. Who does this have a larger impact on? The alliances themselves and the power players that are sippin on moon goo. Your overlords need peons to run their game, and soon many of them will be in a threatened position because of it. Wait and see, once their isk gets threatened alliances will start offering better incentives to Joe Pod or die. Alliance shuffle = conflict, CCP nerf working as intended.

Darth Gustav
Silentium Mortalitas
Mortal Destruction
Posted - 2011.04.25 21:32:00 - [3362]
 

Edited by: Darth Gustav on 25/04/2011 21:36:36
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Originally by: zxsteel
SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!


Please keep discussing this and how it has changed things, but please don't spam the thread with /signed posts Crying or Very sad. Constructive feedback is the best response.


Sorry. Construction requires a medium or media in which to be expressed. For example, a sand castle requires both a sandbox and some sand.

This change occurred in a vacuum, and as such there is literally no medium or media available for construction of any kind, feedback or otherwise. CCP's confidence in their models of nullsec causality provides the (quite unreasonable) pressure to remove any media at all pertaining to this change, be it an appeal to reason, good will, or even good business sense.

What kind of constructive criticism does CCP want from us on this? There's literally nothing to build with or upon. CCP shattered the perception of a sandbox where decisions matter by ****ing on the decisions made by thousands upon thousands of players predicated solely upon CCP's word.

Not only that, but by continuing in arrogant and stubborn silence after a truly half-assed attempt to reconcile this change with the exact customers they sold the original Dominion upgrade system to, CCP then removed the bulk of the sand from the box, kicking it into the collective eyes of everyone who took advantage of the benefits provided by Dominion.

However, this arrogance betrays CCP's hubris. CCP are clearly blind to their own flaws, introducing these changes while dealing from a position of weakness (the original blog indicated that greyscale admitted he was wrong to implement Dominion's bountiful havens and sanctums). At the end of the day, it's precisely this hubris that will keep this nerf in the game. How can someone blinded to their own weakness ever see criticism of said weakness as "constructive?" The fact is, Greyscale believes he was wrong before. So what makes him so damned certain history hasn't repeated itself with this (abysmal) change?

Red Morbo
Posted - 2011.04.25 21:35:00 - [3363]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Originally by: zxsteel
SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!


Please keep discussing this and how it has changed things, but please don't spam the thread with /signed posts Crying or Very sad. Constructive feedback is the best response.


OMG i just wee'd a little!

CCP your killing the Average player not the isk fountain, Kill the moongoo, kill the jump bridges, that'll stop the mass.
then these's large alliance's need corps and not meat shields.
This has only effected the small and they will not survive.

Ban the bots perm! loosing a skilled player will put alot off the "my wallet wins button"

Kill off jump bridges- For real, that'll break up large groups(or make it alot harder to have sov here and there and defend/cta that space

Moongoo only fuels the Massive alliance's- cap it and you cap the blob.

Remove the null nerf! small alliance's-corps can not live totaly in 0.0 if they can't pay the bills, buy the ships to attack or defend their space.

We dont want to grind 4's in high sec 2 weeks out of 4, we want to live-defend-attack in space we call our Home!
Part time griefers we are not, north,south,east or west - we are 0.0

Heathyy
Posted - 2011.04.25 22:34:00 - [3364]
 

Edited by: Heathyy on 25/04/2011 22:49:40
Edited by: Heathyy on 25/04/2011 22:48:35
Edited by: Heathyy on 25/04/2011 22:35:19
Originally by: Karl Planck

Making enough isk is relavent I guess. if you need to afford your own caps, then yes, you either need bots or moon support. Sub caps, which is what the majority of the 'poor' players of 0.0 fly are easy to make the isk to get. And as i said, it is easy to make that isk without carebearing* all day and really hardly at all.

As far as the last comment you modified you just missed the point. Everyone on here complaining doesn't deserve to live in 0.0 if they can't handle adding more risk to they isk fountains. Living in high sec, yes it is boring (least it was while i was there). But if you think you are any better than those bears in high sec you are wrong. All you are giving yourself is a badge, and the only people you are impressing is yourselves.



this is mainly my problem though, I would one day love to be able to fly a carrier even if it only gets used for boring pos repping or other utility jobs. what this change means is that i will never make any or enough profit (its going to take me a long time to get the skill books even) because all of my isk goes into new ships/mods etc. there is no profit in 0.0 unless you deliberately avoid pvp.

it would be nice to see some of the isk fountain shared amongst the peons although there are replacement programs up in most corps you never really know 'who has what' noone wants to be spoon fed, yet not many ppl want to have to baby sit a structure either. im happy being self sufficient although that has been taken away now, at least the pace of it, you can still make isk sure, noone is saying they took it away completely, but they have made it so it is just better to sit in empire, the risk .... is now ... not worth the reward.. does this actually make sense? its not cryptic its honest and truthful. this is the complaint. noone is trying to impress anyone, i dont need to lecture anyone on what 0.0 is like everything is player driven, take away the players its a barren waste land. anything you want in 0.0 needs to be made or brought in from high sec. the risk is evident the rewards just got slashed (i would say in half but its worst than that).

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.04.26 00:59:00 - [3365]
 

Originally by: Heathyy

this is mainly my problem though, I would one day love to be able to fly a carrier even if it only gets used for boring pos repping or other utility jobs. what this change means is that i will never make any or enough profit (its going to take me a long time to get the skill books even) because all of my isk goes into new ships/mods etc. there is no profit in 0.0 unless you deliberately avoid pvp.

it would be nice to see some of the isk fountain shared amongst the peons although there are replacement programs up in most corps you never really know 'who has what' noone wants to be spoon fed, yet not many ppl want to have to baby sit a structure either. im happy being self sufficient although that has been taken away now, at least the pace of it, you can still make isk sure, noone is saying they took it away completely, but they have made it so it is just better to sit in empire, the risk .... is now ... not worth the reward.. does this actually make sense? its not cryptic its honest and truthful. this is the complaint. noone is trying to impress anyone, i dont need to lecture anyone on what 0.0 is like everything is player driven, take away the players its a barren waste land. anything you want in 0.0 needs to be made or brought in from high sec. the risk is evident the rewards just got slashed (i would say in half but its worst than that).


So, I see that you are more reasonable than most the whiners on this thread, so my agression WAS unwarrented, my apologies. But you still fail to see what I am saying in that if you need to PvE that often something is going wrong.

If you fly mainly BC's, then even now as it stands that equates to about 1 hour of bearing to get a new one. IF you fly BS's, that is about 3 hours. That amount of pve is perfectly necessary, if not even to little. And this is why.

In eve losses are supposed to hurt, they are SUPPOSED to mean something. That something is your time. Its what makes the PvP so great. If no one had to 'waste' their time making isk then it wouldn't matter when we lost ships and this game would turn into hello kitty online and suck.

That said, if you can't be bothered to pve for an hour or two to get your ships back up then wtf do you expect from this game? As said before, if isk was this easy for everyone then the whole point of the working economy would be go away.

If what you wanted happened, there would be no point to pvp, which i think is a negative as far as most are concerned, because it would make the greatest aspect fo the game (pvp, imo) boring.

Heathyy
Posted - 2011.04.26 01:25:00 - [3366]
 

having pvp losses hurt is fine and they do, already did! the problem comes when living in 0.0 costs so much that your only making isk TO pvp, moving to high sec or not pvping for a month is probably the only real way of actually saving a few bil as a peon. this is all im saying on this topic this change is so deep rooted it effect all players in all situations its crazy really.

Darth Gustav
Silentium Mortalitas
Mortal Destruction
Posted - 2011.04.26 02:58:00 - [3367]
 

Edited by: Darth Gustav on 26/04/2011 02:59:54
Originally by: Karl Planck
So, I see that you are more reasonable than most the whiners on this thread, so my agression WAS unwarrented, my apologies. But you still fail to see what I am saying in that if you need to PvE that often something is going wrong.

If you fly mainly BC's, then even now as it stands that equates to about 1 hour of bearing to get a new one. IF you fly BS's, that is about 3 hours. That amount of pve is perfectly necessary, if not even to little. And this is why.

In eve losses are supposed to hurt, they are SUPPOSED to mean something. That something is your time. Its what makes the PvP so great. If no one had to 'waste' their time making isk then it wouldn't matter when we lost ships and this game would turn into hello kitty online and suck.

That said, if you can't be bothered to pve for an hour or two to get your ships back up then wtf do you expect from this game? As said before, if isk was this easy for everyone then the whole point of the working economy would be go away.

If what you wanted happened, there would be no point to pvp, which i think is a negative as far as most are concerned, because it would make the greatest aspect fo the game (pvp, imo) boring.


What about an ihub? How many hours of ratting will the average player have to rat to earn enough for, say, an ihub? And, with the new system, where would the average player's corp put that ihub?

You keep talking about income, like CCP intended this as a change to lower the average player's income. The stated purpose wasn't about how much a PVP loss would hurt, it was actually put in place to encourage more conflict.

If CCP's stated goals were to make nullsec combat even more consequential, yeah sure they were successful. Surprise, that was not one of the stated goals of this change.

If you want to talk about PVP that stings, it's the kind where it's dev people against player people. That's what this change amounts to. In that match, the devs will obviously always win. They seem to act like they've always got to prove it, just for proving its sake.

We are not impressed by arguments that PVP should sting more, or that income can "still be made." People bought ihubs and upgraded systems for a reason:

They trusted CCP's stated intent for the game's future.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.26 04:13:00 - [3368]
 

The tears of broken promises are so lol-worthy. Reminds me of the thousands of Saudi princes that consider their monthly dues a birthright.

CCP never made a promise the game never would change, and in fact the one thing we CAN be sure of is that anything may change. There was a vision of Dominion, however when the devblog listed the costs of various system upgrades a loud whine threadnoughted the excessive costs.

A year later it turns out the nerfed system upkeep costs weren't a big enough ISK sink, and thus we see the change to anom distribution. You guys complain that CCP doesn't listen, yet we are here today BECAUSE CCP were stupid enough to listen and lower the costs.

Darth Gustav
Silentium Mortalitas
Mortal Destruction
Posted - 2011.04.26 07:18:00 - [3369]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
The tears of broken promises are so lol-worthy. Reminds me of the thousands of Saudi princes that consider their monthly dues a birthright.

CCP never made a promise the game never would change, and in fact the one thing we CAN be sure of is that anything may change. There was a vision of Dominion, however when the devblog listed the costs of various system upgrades a loud whine threadnoughted the excessive costs.

A year later it turns out the nerfed system upkeep costs weren't a big enough ISK sink, and thus we see the change to anom distribution. You guys complain that CCP doesn't listen, yet we are here today BECAUSE CCP were stupid enough to listen and lower the costs.


This change had nothing to do with ISK sinks, when will the rest of Eve realize this?

Those sanctums and havens still ****ing exist, for the most part. That ISK can still be injected into the market by the large power blocks.

Christ, some of you "pro-nerf" people really are utter ****wits.

Ghazu
Posted - 2011.04.26 14:21:00 - [3370]
 

Karl Planck- mega church christian, likes to hurt for his sins, likes to flogg himself and wish the rest of us do as well at least he is going to heaven.

i was gonna blow like 100m a month gambling on blinks but now none of that now
was gonna go all fancy with factions but none of that now

but its more meaningful that way right?


Metal Icarus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.26 14:29:00 - [3371]
 

Truly, the only real reason for me not liking this patch is that this made the I-hub useless unless you're in -0.4 space or better. All those billions spent on those full military and pirate detection upgrades now mean 2 hubs instead of 1.... woo

Hey, I found the isk sink, but I think there is a giant hole in it and all the isk just fell out instead going down the drain. :(

Vengeance Thirst
Posted - 2011.04.26 14:30:00 - [3372]
 

This is my final post here as my 3 accounts expire soon and I just dont give a c-r-a-p anymore.

All I can say is that CCP should give us the money back for the game time spend upgrading our system.

It took 15 of us ratting crap anoms around the clock for a month(2 belt system) , it took 15 of us to make and put the isk together to buy the IHub, upgrades, a freighter to move them and scan for wormholes to get all **** from empire.

It was a good team effort with good time spent (and a good reword). Paying CCP for that time.

Now they made all that work worthless so basically we payed CCP for a broken product that doesn't work anymore.

I want money back both for me and for everyone that payed for the game time they put in to upgrade the systems.

A months pay will do it.

Banlish
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.04.26 14:38:00 - [3373]
 

Edited by: Banlish on 26/04/2011 14:49:13
Perhaps a voice of reason?


As we've seen from 113 pages of replies, the player base that lives in 0.0 does not like these changes. Perhaps it is time to be the company we 'hope you are' and consider changing this 'feature' to something a tad more reasonable.

Consider the following:


Instead of removing sanctums and whatever else people run in ratting. (no I don't rat for isk sorry) Consider giving it a slider of spawning.
For every .10 of sec the system has, or portion therefor of the system will spawn 1 extra sanctums/hubs/whatever people really want.

So lets take 3 systems.

-0.04 system ABC, -0.51 system STU and -1.00 system XYZ

the -0.04 system with full upgrades would spawn 20 sites, with the 'change' they would only spawn 1 sanctums.
the -0.51 system STU with full upgrades would spawn 20 sites, with the 'change' they would only spawn 5 sanctums.
the -1.00 system XYZ with full upgrades would spawn 20 sites, with the 'change' they would spawn a tremendous 10 sanctums.


Now with this change that seems to be required every system in the pile is infact changed and of course the numbers can be tweaked to whatever is required. However it would not turn 75% of 0.0 into practically uselessness which is why tempers are flaring, people are angry and this thread is getting so long.

After I thought 50 pages CCP would at least give some feedback and say "well maybe this wasn't exactly the desired result"
After I thought 100 pages CCP would say "whoa there, we're seriously looking at this."
After I thought 200 pages CCP would say "Holy crap, get Tom, **** and Harry on the line they need to hotfix patch this BACK to what it was before we changed this, obviously the players as a majority don't like this change."

Please consider at least something like this, I've seen entire alliances have their space become useless by this change and I'm one of those people that has spent literally less then 8 hours ratting in the past 3 YEARS.

Just a thought, hopefully it helps CCP.

Remember, the player base applauded you for reversing your decisions to the motherships. Please consider that with this thread as the responses are about as similar in quantity at this point.


EDIT:

Also consider this. Why would I, as a player, run sites in 0.0 if I could run the same crappy sites in -0.01 to -0.75 in level 1 to level 3 missions and then have an agent in EVE in empire all nice and safe that would spawn me missions that are the equivalent of the best 0.0 has to offer?

It only takes a single alt for practically unlimited and uninterrupted income.
Or we could say that's the way it should be and teamwork in 0.0 is practically dead.
Of course we'll have people say "Zomg, CCP only wants us to buy MOAR accounts zomg, emo, rage!1!!11!!eleven!!

Again something to consider.


Shmak DatAsh
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Posted - 2011.04.26 14:59:00 - [3374]
 

Originally by: Banlish
Edited by: Banlish on 26/04/2011 14:49:13
Perhaps a voice of reason?


As we've seen from 113 pages of replies, the player base that lives in 0.0 does not like these changes. Perhaps it is time to be the company we 'hope you are' and consider changing this 'feature' to something a tad more reasonable.

Consider the following:


Instead of removing sanctums and whatever else people run in ratting. (no I don't rat for isk sorry) Consider giving it a slider of spawning.
For every .10 of sec the system has, or portion therefor of the system will spawn 1 extra sanctums/hubs/whatever people really want.

So lets take 3 systems.

-0.04 system ABC, -0.51 system STU and -1.00 system XYZ

the -0.04 system with full upgrades would spawn 20 sites, with the 'change' they would only spawn 1 sanctums.
the -0.51 system STU with full upgrades would spawn 20 sites, with the 'change' they would only spawn 5 sanctums.
the -1.00 system XYZ with full upgrades would spawn 20 sites, with the 'change' they would spawn a tremendous 10 sanctums.


Now with this change that seems to be required every system in the pile is infact changed and of course the numbers can be tweaked to whatever is required. However it would not turn 75% of 0.0 into practically uselessness which is why tempers are flaring, people are angry and this thread is getting so long.

After I thought 50 pages CCP would at least give some feedback and say "well maybe this wasn't exactly the desired result"
After I thought 100 pages CCP would say "whoa there, we're seriously looking at this."
After I thought 200 pages CCP would say "Holy crap, get Tom, **** and Harry on the line they need to hotfix patch this BACK to what it was before we changed this, obviously the players as a majority don't like this change."

Please consider at least something like this, I've seen entire alliances have their space become useless by this change and I'm one of those people that has spent literally less then 8 hours ratting in the past 3 YEARS.

Just a thought, hopefully it helps CCP.

Remember, the player base applauded you for reversing your decisions to the motherships. Please consider that with this thread as the responses are about as similar in quantity at this point.


EDIT:

Also consider this. Why would I, as a player, run sites in 0.0 if I could run the same crappy sites in -0.01 to -0.75 in level 1 to level 3 missions and then have an agent in EVE in empire all nice and safe that would spawn me missions that are the equivalent of the best 0.0 has to offer?

It only takes a single alt for practically unlimited and uninterrupted income.
Or we could say that's the way it should be and teamwork in 0.0 is practically dead.
Of course we'll have people say "Zomg, CCP only wants us to buy MOAR accounts zomg, emo, rage!1!!11!!eleven!!

Again something to consider.




Didnt i ban you from posting walls o text???

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.04.26 15:23:00 - [3375]
 

Originally by: Ghazu
Karl Planck- mega church christian, likes to hurt for his sins, likes to flogg himself and wish the rest of us do as well at least he is going to heaven.

i was gonna blow like 100m a month gambling on blinks but now none of that now
was gonna go all fancy with factions but none of that now

but its more meaningful that way right?




LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Most of the time in EVE I get called an a**hole, griefer, jerk and lots of other fun names, first time someone thought I am a self righteous religious zealot. Good times.

Try gambling on EOH poker, more fun and you aren't throwing isk away. I hardly carebear at all and I fly tons of shiny faction stuff.

But oh wait, you suck at pvp, thats right i forgot. Well, learn to play the game better then you can get what you want, oh you could just post here about how your butthurt cause you should be allowed to suck at pvp, have major losses AND gable you isk away for no effort. gb2wow.

and @Darth Gustav, bro, I did JUST say that I did feel bad for people that upgraded those system, but many of us have felt that pinch. A single change that nerfs our efforts and training. While I feel bad for you guys, its not like you situation is unique, and certainly doesn't warrant a change when CCP has never changed their nerfs before. YOU SHOULD KNOW that at any time your efforts can be jeopardized by game changes, how did it take till this patch for you to realize it?

Originally by: Darth Gustav

They trusted CCP's stated intent for the game's future.



lol, they made a change for a certain effect, they didn't get what they wanted so they changed it again. If you were actually paying attention to what CCP originally wanted (more people in Arrow more conflict) then you might have thought about the RISK you were taking trying to set up shop.

I'll say it again though, I do feel bad, just not 113 pages of thread bad

shortylt
Posted - 2011.04.26 16:58:00 - [3376]
 

CCP is failing with EVE
no anoms = no ISK = no play = no fun = no money for CCP

Chuck Wilson Sasen
Posted - 2011.04.26 20:22:00 - [3377]
 

Well ccp you have done it this time ive decided to cancel my 3 account my main and my 2 alts wich i might add that 2 of them were paid by recuring payment by credit card so now go f urselves every time i get somewhere in eve we all get knocked back down and ive been playing for 3 years with my charcters and your **** aint helping the game ccp wake up.

Red Morbo
Posted - 2011.04.26 22:47:00 - [3378]
 

Well there's plenty of feed back on here ccp, minus the trolls
There's better ways to effect a change, we're not getting more accounts/buying gtc's to sell to balance the loss.

But hell at least we're getting "T2 ship spinning"

If i wanted to spend my time looking at a toon walking around doing f*ck all i would have played WOW.


zxsteel
Gallente
Darkness Of Absolution
Posted - 2011.04.27 01:46:00 - [3379]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Originally by: zxsteel
SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!


Please keep discussing this and how it has changed things, but please don't spam the thread with /signed posts Crying or Very sad. Constructive feedback is the best response.


CCP Zymurgist, I think we need to have more feedback from 'CCP" in forums period! Not saying things will change but to help community "FEEL" you care about us players. "CCP Zymurgist" I thank you for posted sir. you are a good true person to your word. Wish we had more people like you, to help make us feel loved!

Next thing I ask, for "CCP" to have player ask all of CCP to give a nice reply, and take time to show a thumbs up for all this feedback! I mean giving up 5 mins to say hey we are here, reading this TOPIC! As this is growing topic, then "WALKING IN STATIONS"

Thanks again, and under no way will CCP do this :-(... I don't feel you do look...ugh You know this is not asking much!

Ghazu
Posted - 2011.04.27 02:05:00 - [3380]
 

karl planck-
your opinions are like
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qhkcyMXQ5ug/TStJ3M-3sYI/AAAAAAAAAtc/zpDmy0IdqHk/s1600/westborobaptistchurch.png
you might as well be speaking in tongues

and you are just FOTM supporting the nerf cus if you don't your not uber, aint you special now your in the uber club
SPECIAL!

BackStreet Babe
Posted - 2011.04.27 05:55:00 - [3381]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Originally by: zxsteel
SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!


Please keep discussing this and how it has changed things, but please don't spam the thread with /signed posts Crying or Very sad. Constructive feedback is the best response.


shall i fix this for you.

say and do what you like we couldnt give a **** but are having a good laugh at the winers

minelat
Posted - 2011.04.27 12:10:00 - [3382]
 

As a member of 0.0 alliance this change did a few things i can see:
1. Lot of guys left for high sec, so they can do some lv 4, cause CCP don't forget most of players don't have 12 hours per day to earn a lot of ISK thru industry, trade or whatever(farming sanctumsEmbarassed)
2. 0.0 in some regions became totally empty
3. Peeps are to afraid to join roam fleet cause they don't have isk to cover they ships (they still attend blob fights cause alliance gona give them BS if they lose it, but who love blob fights anyway)
4. it's boring in 0.0 thru the daytime, if you are not miner or pvper what the hell can you do there, farming hubs to get 3 mill per one?
5 no wars still for sanctums sistems Twisted Evil

So i'm askin you is this nerf really so good, big alliances still getting tons of isk from moongoo or farming drones mindlessly, and regular player who is playing 2-3 hours per day can chose- go to high sec to do lv4 missions or do some mining which he never done before so he don't have skills at all.

If this change was all about to get a lot of peeps out of 0.0 to reduce lag would say you done it perfectly.Thou from mine exsp a lot of supers are causing lag anyway, and we all know that they are coming from moongoo- so NERF moonming and let normal players to earn some isk so they can do whatever they like in game, cause after all we all play this game to enjoy and not like this is our second job (well at least most of usugh)

mine 2 isk about this

Xel Ra
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:39:00 - [3383]
 

As predicted, the nerf utterly decimated our burgeoning little corp despite our best efforts and good attitudes about rolling with the punches in corp. Now, noobs have left, can't get remaining guys to pvp, less of a recruitment attraction, our upgrades are virtually worthless, and why defend something were someone to bother attacking (they don't). Call it what you want, but it worked counter to CCP's stated purpose. That is all.

Darth Gustav
Silentium Mortalitas
Mortal Destruction
Posted - 2011.04.27 20:27:00 - [3384]
 

Originally by: Xel Ra
As predicted, the nerf utterly decimated our burgeoning little corp despite our best efforts and good attitudes about rolling with the punches in corp. Now, noobs have left, can't get remaining guys to pvp, less of a recruitment attraction, our upgrades are virtually worthless, and why defend something were someone to bother attacking (they don't). Call it what you want, but it worked counter to CCP's stated purpose. That is all.


Can CCP prove that this isn't the case? Based on current values do their nullsec causality models continue to indicate that it won't be an ongoing trend that leads to less conflict?

I doubt this seriously, since their logs never show a damned thing and their nullsec causality models are obviously as accurate as a drunk chimpanzee.

Makumba Aki
Posted - 2011.04.28 10:48:00 - [3385]
 

Still no reply from CCP?

My perception is that many corps are leaving alliances and join alliances with better space, break apart or are leaving 0.0 for WH or high.

Let us look at some NPC kill numbers:

Providence

Cloud Ring

Pure Blind

and now compare it with the Region with probably lowest true sec on average

Deklein

So what happened? Smaller entities have left 0.0 or joined big powerblocks. No small entites dare to attack big powerblocks for better space (suprise, surprise!!!) There are no more smalle conflicts. We basically have one huge conflict. DRF, Trivoke, PL and Raiden vs. NC, Goons and -A-.

Could CCP please post their perception of the situation? They should have more, and better data sources than I do.

I mean really, no flame or whine intended here. I would just like to know CCP's POV on that.



HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.28 11:25:00 - [3386]
 

as predicted the changes backfired on ccp, not thought through once again a rough attempt at creating conflict in 00

When the easier way of doing this would be have more wormholes between known space 00 to 00 , 00 to high sec 00 to low sec. More traffic more interaction but they dont think outside the box. U can rat in the belts for zzzz, lower quality systems are simply resulting in a flow back into empire into the level 4 mission hubs.

As it is looks like this is going thro low sec is no mans land so meh enjoy falling numbers not rising numbers ccp

Lenthall Scorpus
Posted - 2011.04.28 12:06:00 - [3387]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Originally by: zxsteel
SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!


Please keep discussing this and how it has changed things, but please don't spam the thread with /signed posts Crying or Very sad. Constructive feedback is the best response.


A 113 pages and this is all that CCP has to say - don't spam

I've been living in 0.0 for 1.5 years and I can tell you this, we are back to the pre-dominion grave yards. Going 10 jumps without seeing a soul, whole regions (and yes this is firsthand experience) emptying of players quite rapidly.

So have CCP Grayscale achieved his goal? Alliance's marginally less stable blah blah blah. All this has done is broken the social aspects of select regions in 0.0 not reduced isk income. The isk will flow some way or another and players will adapt eventually. But the problem that CCP so grandly tried to address in Dominion about whole regions being devoid of players is effectively back.

No player in his right mind would even consider doing anomolies in 0 - 0.2 systems. I ran a Forsaken Den last night and though to myself there is just no way CCP no f.... way that I will run this crap for a "living". Hubs are still ok but other than that it's like pulling teeth.

O and if you thought that the exploration got fixed, guess again, they re- spawn of plexes is so bad that if you are not online for the first few hours after DT nada zip thanks for coming now go dock up. What makes this worse is that Drone spawns are more prevalent meaning unless I clear the drone crap it takes up exploration "slots" that will not re spawn reducing this even more.

So yes CCP Greyscale and team BFF - (Btw for a team about friends you have a strange way of showing it) rethink this one, not saying undo but rethink since this aint working as intended

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.04.28 22:33:00 - [3388]
 

Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 29/04/2011 01:32:38
Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 29/04/2011 01:31:05
edit for trolling comments at the end.. can't say everythought that crosses my mind

The game really isn't as much fun when people can't earn their income very close to where they stage for pvp roams and cta's

It means that its harder to get people there for a pickup roam or defensive fight.

It means there are less targets for people hunting for pve players on a pvp roam.. (and less pitchforks etc)

It means that many people will spend time on alts in high sec, increasing their chances of slipping away from the social group... the more people are together, the more they interact, and its not a linear thing... there are little hurdles that need to be overcome before people start working together and frequency and developed comfort based on hapenstantial contact is often the first step.

But thats all theory ... we should be able to see results now .. i feel the above but
CCP has the data easily at hand. Are there more characters active for as many hours in 0.0 or is it far less?

Have the number of lvl 4 missions run gone up in relation to the past level and also ratio of them to anomolies ?

Can we move it away from hearsay and hear it first hand ?

I hope no-one got so attatched to an idea that they can't look at the results objectively and reverse themselves.

Spc One
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.29 00:55:00 - [3389]
 

Originally by: Makumba Aki
Still no reply from CCP?

My perception is that many corps are leaving alliances and join alliances with better space, break apart or are leaving 0.0 for WH or high.

Let us look at some NPC kill numbers:

Providence

Cloud Ring

Pure Blind

and now compare it with the Region with probably lowest true sec on average

Deklein

So what happened? Smaller entities have left 0.0 or joined big powerblocks. No small entites dare to attack big powerblocks for better space (suprise, surprise!!!) There are no more smalle conflicts. We basically have one huge conflict. DRF, Trivoke, PL and Raiden vs. NC, Goons and -A-.

Could CCP please post their perception of the situation? They should have more, and better data sources than I do.

I mean really, no flame or whine intended here. I would just like to know CCP's POV on that.




I am pretty sure ppl left to high sec and are doing missions.
Even level 3 mission gives more isk than -0.2 systems.
ugh

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.29 06:30:00 - [3390]
 

Originally by: Makumba Aki
Still no reply from CCP?

My perception is that many corps are leaving alliances and join alliances with better space, break apart or are leaving 0.0 for WH or high.

Let us look at some NPC kill numbers:

You're using NPC kill numbers to judge a patch aiming at reducing NPC kill numbers and increasing conflict? Did you completely miss the point of the change?

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind#kills24
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind/2011-04-01#kills24

Four week ago and there were FEWER PvP kill than this friday, so what does that tell us by the way of anecdotal evidence? That the patch is working as intended.


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