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Wolf Spyder
Posted - 2011.04.22 02:27:00 - [3331]
 

Not sure what forum to put this under so I will put it here. I just want to say thanks to the people that decided to screw up the missions for people that want to run solo. In their marxist way they have once again tried to force people together when they prefer to be ALONE. Before the patch, I was able to handle level four missions without a problem using my drake. Yeah I would have to warp out now and again so that my shields can recharge. Now, I have to kill a ship, warp out, kill a ship, warp out, kill a ship, warp out, kill a ship, warp out, kill a ship, warp out, kill a ship, warp out, kill a ship, warp out. Is there anything else those people can do to totally screw things up for those of us that choose a solo option in eve? I mean really, what has been done was totally ludicrous in making the missions that annoying. Hell they should have just went ahead and remove all the bonuses to every single ship and made the npc rats more incursion like. Why didn't they do that? Neutral

Laura Izia
Posted - 2011.04.22 08:26:00 - [3332]
 

This is good for me as not renewing my subs for 5 accounts will save me quite a bit of money each month. It'll also give me a chance to catch up with real life that has passed me by in the last 4 years.

For the trolls out there these are tears of joy that I will not have to read your cringing attempts of humour anymore.
For the Jita-bugs, get a life...like me.

Heathyy
Posted - 2011.04.22 10:27:00 - [3333]
 

Edited by: Heathyy on 22/04/2011 11:20:03
Edited by: Heathyy on 22/04/2011 10:31:45
quite amazing how many pages there actually are now and no response whatsoever, since it has been active for a while now i have to concur with my fellow 0.0 nieghbours that it is infact just taking longer to make isk (we want less grinding more pvp not more grinding and less pvp), at one point i left my corp and was sitting in empire until i was told that i can take some time to make isk if really needed.

still compared to pre patch the 1 sanctum every 2 days or so was perfect and kept me in battlespounges now though im falling back to BC's and more specialist ships i think the only battleship you'll catch me flying now is a scorpion since its cheap enough to lose often. still prepatch you could replace a loss within a few hours (if your like me and ratting takes hours anyway) now it just takes twice as long. basically inbetween real life and cta's then the odd roam and general defence there is no time to effectively sit there grinding it can be done, although my corp has a very low tolerance for ppl that don't contribute, when its pvp time its pvp time which is nearly all the time, having the sanctums made it possible to afford to join the battleship blob, now its not looking good at all considering there was barely time to sit in a sanctum before the patch, it was possible during the quiet times, now running 5 hubs to make the same isk is just not feasible.

i dont think it will take long before i p!ss someone off making isk instead of pvping but, you can't do one without the other. i did leave once on my own accord the next time i think ill be getting kicked from 0.0. when that happens i'm throwing in the towel myself.

the ignorance of this whole change is beyond. btw what happened to the week before it actually changes, i logged in patch day and it had already been nerfed, there was no 'gradually over a certain period'... I do feel for the players who put alot of effort into improving these systems only to log in one day and have it **** all over.

BackStreet Babe
Posted - 2011.04.22 13:34:00 - [3334]
 

since this change we only get havens.

its not so bad for us, apart from these havens(cloud one) are bugged so now in reality we only get 1 ****ing haven.

fix the bugs, sick of a company beliving a 3rd rate service is accepitble

Dutschetss Vilhelmena
Caldari
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
Posted - 2011.04.22 18:01:00 - [3335]
 

You have again caused me to spend months setting up a safe place, risking great loss to move my ships, BP's and all the stuff you need in 0.0 space, out to 0.0 space... and now AFTER I spent months building a successful location, NOW, you pull the plug on the anomalies?Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

SO you strengthen the big alliances at the expense of the average solo player.

Now I have to abandon my stuff, or sell it at a loss, or try to get the best out, back to empire, without dying (running low sec gate camps AGAIN), all because you can not create a stable environment for players.

You are driving us away everytime you nerf features that make players successful.

When it takes me weeks to earn enough for a battle ship, I sure am not going to gladly risk it fighting gangs who have all the advantages.

Back to Empire. o.o sucks again.
Sad

CCP FAIL

NeuroSpike
Posted - 2011.04.22 22:59:00 - [3336]
 

I joined a 0.0 corp in hopes to learn how to play the game and make friends, I guess it was a bad time. Members screaming to get there crap back to empire, directors being rude with CEO's and so on. I left the corp and alliance and headed back to empire.

I feel for the guys who spent all that isk after the learning skills went away. used there points on capitals only to sale there carriers and beat them selfs up for not investing the SP in other areas.

Wow. I just hate it. 1 stupid nerf and everyone packs up and heads in different directions.

Quincy Taggart
Posted - 2011.04.23 02:06:00 - [3337]
 

Yup CCP you screwed the pooch on this one..really wtf is it with you guys? You whine whine that too many ppl are in empire...no one will go to 0.0. So you finally did ONE thing right and let space anywhere be improved via isk and effort. Finally...0.0 with rewards worth the risk. So we put in our effort and we spent our isk and we moved out to 0.0

Finally we were able to sustain ourselves in 0.0 without having to join a huge power block...and then CCP made it all worthless...so back to empire we go. And I'd better not hear you whine about it CCP.

Just wonder how long before you boys grow some *********, admit that you ass ****d every single player without lube, apologize and roll things back...?

I'll put you on my Christmas list this year and make sure I send each Dev a copy of "How to win Friends & Influence People"


5entinel
Posted - 2011.04.23 02:09:00 - [3338]
 

Unf*** this, CCP.

Signed
-Paying Customer.

Mr Cleann
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.23 03:16:00 - [3339]
 

Originally by: Eielson
Well looks good for the Industrialist..... I wonder if they going to nerf the belts next? I mean makes sence....First the moon goo isk making ability, now the Anoms/Havens/Sactums, so it should only be natural that they take all the rare ore out of the belts....oh wait they going to do away with the belts all together in the next patch.....


Yep, Next month CCP is going to lengthen the cycle times to 30 minutes and you will get 1/4 of what you get now. Your mining bonuses will be reduced by 75%. Its in the patch notes. I think CCP is trying to kill its client base or they have some disgruntled employees that gotten written up recently.

Mr Cleann
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.23 03:21:00 - [3340]
 

CCP's solution to dealing with people that complain about issues in the released updates........ignoring them.

NeuroSpike
Posted - 2011.04.23 11:23:00 - [3341]
 

Most of my friends don't even login any more, Say to Q up skills.
I'm most likely going to play out what time i have left on my account and be done with eve. Things change in eve that cause more frustrations than the games worth. For a new player just starting, Hope you have a better corp than me. I'm left wondering what the hell do I do now, Wondering around eve empire is getting old and fast.

bomberman302
Posted - 2011.04.23 18:27:00 - [3342]
 

Edited by: bomberman302 on 23/04/2011 18:32:34
I forsee for the future of eve

Players please select your difficulty!!!!

EAZY
MEDIUM
HARD
INSANE

That what it comming to. Look ccp I pay for this game and i want my anolomys back all you did was now, 1 create a way for campers to not have to work so hard which ****s everyone up not just myself,2 caused problems for us that do are 1v1 pvp this is crap isk now, 3 im done read pages before to see everything else, 4 get someone in there that know wtf they are looking at,5 do yall even play this game


<edited for this> I now play battlestar galactica which is free and fun also google it which i might add they dont nerf because they want peeps to work together or whatever yall did this crap for.

Blign bannaray
Posted - 2011.04.23 22:02:00 - [3343]
 

No thank you CCP. Leave it as it is and go work on WIS/Dust 514 or how about this, go work on WIS/Dust 514. Leave me nulsec alone.

Crye MultiCam
Posted - 2011.04.24 14:35:00 - [3344]
 

So let's examine a situation where an average player is grinding to save for a capital, or even a supercapital.

She would previously run sanctums like it was a job, making roughly 20-30mil/tick. This comes to 60-90mil/hour. That's the equivalent of earning 3-4.5 USD per hour (less than half the federally-mandated minimum wage), or 2.06-3.09 Euros per hour.

Said player would probably prefer to just save money from a real-life job (even when working at minimum wage), than work in eve. But since ratting/running sanctums can be done relatively pain-free from a computer chair, she may be willing to take a pay cut in order to keep her hard-earned real-life currency for more important things.

Now with less sanctums, that ability to earn a virtual 3 USD/2 Euros per hour has been dropped significantly.

Let's combine this with CCP's recent 'crackdown' on RMT, the pressure on the player to pay CCP cash on top of their monthly bill(s) likely shows us the true intent of these changes:

Force self-sufficient players to either buy GTCs or farm level 4's for 2x the amount of time they would have spent in sanctums or ratting. Those players would probably get tired of working twice as hard, so they will leave.

But now we have incursions, captain's quarters, and planetary interaction - so more players will (in CCP's mind) hopefully take their place. Can your new subscriptions keep up with those with 4-5 accounts who are quitting in droves?

We're still playing the same game, but the cost of living has gone up - while the minimum wage has gone down. Many ship prices are holding at the SP gold-rush prices and never dropped. Perhaps with dominion, CCP felt they let too much isk into the economy; I disagree. They made ships more accessible to those who wish to use them in combat.

So now we're faced with what is essentially a mirror of the current real-world economic situation, but in eve, more people are willing to just stop playing.

megaman mike
Posted - 2011.04.24 16:21:00 - [3345]
 

Edited by: megaman mike on 24/04/2011 16:21:21
Same old storie here , i finaly made it out to null a lil over a mounth ago , been playing over a year to get the skills i need to do so . i get out there with a good bunch of guys and ..Zap! my only income is gone .

turn around go back run 4s nope im done with 4s ... cancel 4 acounts is more like it. bye eve it was good while it lasted Mad

StryP1
Posted - 2011.04.24 16:41:00 - [3346]
 

Confirming you've dropped the income of a 10 mil SP, 8 month old player in nulsec. They were perfect for a guy with 30-60 mins of time to make ISK.

Eos Astraios
Posted - 2011.04.25 07:08:00 - [3347]
 

Confirming I have already unsubbed 3 accounts due to CCP's completely ass-hattery regarding this matter.

CCP seems to think they know so much about how people's social nature. Well, diddle me this CCP:

What happens when things become too hard you push people into a corner?

1) They give up and try something else
2) They find a way around the problem. Usually via illegal means

So the outcome of said changes will result in either of the above. Some people will leave for greener grass as you have completely violated and torched their current pasture.

Or they will resort to illegal means to survive as it is the easiest solution to the problem and often at times a way to 'stick it to the man' as it were.

So in the near future I predict less subs, more bots and possibly worse. Perhaps someone will save a few hundred dollars they would normally pay to CCP and pay someone to hack CCP's GTC algorithm or develop increasingly advanced hacks the likes of which CCP could not even begin to comprehend or combat (Seeing as they do not even comprehend their OWN game code currently).

Bravo CCP.

Bravo.

When CCP announces the impending cancellation of EVE due to low subs just remember you read it here first!

The end is nigh!

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:52:00 - [3348]
 

low sec got borked as well those sits were an income earner but now i take my scanner out and 80% of sites are wormholes, i went into 00 and noticed less wormholes so more lead into low sec now, less into null sec making the NC and other 00 blobs safer. More empty womrholes into low sec into already low sec space, the carebears in empire now have no reason to go beyond their 0.5 level 4 missions. So ccp has just killed most of the game all in the name of breaking up blobs are us in 00

income generation for moons is the same concentrating isk making in the hnads of the mega blobs, ccp would have been better to put in comets with moon goo in wh space in 00 low and high sec, nerf 00 moons and low sec moons or dynamic changes. to make a bit of everything and left the rats in 00 nerf alone. Now grind is up enjoyment in 00 and low sec is down and ccp has screwballed it again

Ghazu
Posted - 2011.04.25 10:32:00 - [3349]
 

eveonline 2011

welcome to the ghetto, but you can still enjoy the view from your captain's quarter

Red Morbo
Posted - 2011.04.25 11:39:00 - [3350]
 

Soooo still no ccp answer,
can we get a report from ccp on how this "Excited change" has really paned out.

Graphs and pritty picutures showing the month before and after numbers in 0.0 center'd round this patch (done in crayon if needs)

Really want to see if "In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals"

Or is this a bit closer,

"Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space" Its called high sec!

"Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec" why would they want to rent a worthless system

"Coalitions will be marginally less stable" More stable dont you mean, as no one wants to pee the big alliance off with the isk holes and super cap blob fleet when the smaller can just scratch a few cruisers together.

"Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on" Develop for what? the new staging systems are jita and dodixie, if anyone logs on now that is.

Please CCP tell us how well this patch has worked from your planned ideas or we'll just take the silence as tears of failure.
I've found something better than grinding isk for weeks to pay for a few moments of pvp, it called other games with a splash of not paying for 2 accounts every month.

The end is nigh, guess i just won eve Laughing


WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.04.25 15:16:00 - [3351]
 

Originally by: Marley Browning
Originally by: WisdomPanda


Incorrect. -0.3 to -0.4 has one haven.

With full upgrades, this is how I feel it should break down;

0.0 to -0.2 = 1 Haven
-0.3 to -0.4 = 2 Haven
-0.5 to -0.6 = 1 Sanctum, 2 Haven
-0.7 to -0.8 = 2 Sanctum, 2 Haven
-0.9 to -1.0 = 2 Sanctum, 4 Haven



I think your wrong, I am in a -.62 system and I only get 3 havens, no sanctums since the patch.


This has been miss quoted a few times, so to correct it;

With full upgrades, this is how I feel it should break down;

It was my opinion how the changes SHOULD be, not how they ARE. The -0.3 to -0.4 having one haven is correct though. (At Lv5 military)

To all the haters out their trying to grow their self importance by bashing on the "carebears", you fail to see why this is an issue.

1) CCP made these changes in Dominion because they acknowledged that most of these systems are totally worthless. They also put isk sinks in place. If anything, the sinks should be increased, gradually, until a happy spot is found.

2) The changes can not be inflation related as they are ISOLATED. If this were really about turning off the taps, empire should have been equally hit. After all, as you all keep reminding us; it has a larger population thus a greater potential to generate isk. (Many 0.0 carebears already doing so, in fact)

3) The changes were put in last minute, as a foot note, and they are terribly unbalanced.

4) It is far more expensive to live in 0.0 than empire/low-sec. On top of the damage we do to each other on a daily basis, 0.0 also has maintence costs that empire/low-sec people are not exposed to.

5) They did this with no community support, input or discussion. Do you remember seeing the CSM being consulted?

6) They gave inaccurate, flawed or just plain false reasoning for the change.

7) The (very) limited response so far has been short sighted at best. This isn't about opposing the changes (at least not for me) it's about either making them global (nerf ALL isk fountains) or at least give real, solid, irrefutable reasoning for not only implementing the changes, but also doing so WITHOUT any community interaction.

If those aren't reason enough to get you fired up or at least slightly agitated, I doubt any reason presented will sway you beyond your own prejudice.

As far as reasoning goes, from CCP Grayscales second response:

Quote:
- Related to this, the current concern about low-value space as it relates to new alliances is that, because it can be upgraded to be almost as good as anywhere else in the game, there's little incentive to move along once you're there. Dominion worked well with getting these regions more useful and more occupied, but we're concerned that unless the current tenants have a good reason to want to leave behind the infrastructure they've built up and move on to better areas, the next crop of prospective alliances are going to find they have nowhere to go.


So basically what he's saying is that CCP expects you to drop billions into system development, dropping outposts, etc. Then move because you don't like your current rats, you will need to invest trillions (spread across many accounts) into getting new space, by forcing out it's current owners. You'll also need to do all of this with space that is so worthless that no self respect power block wants it. (Because if they did, they would have it by now)

Apparently, this reasoning made sense at CCP. /facepalm

Also, help keep this thread alive! 200 pages is the new goal. If we still have no proper response from CCP by then, we'll need to take more drastic steps.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.25 15:44:00 - [3352]
 

Originally by: WisdomPanda
Originally by: Marley Browning
Originally by: WisdomPanda


...



I think your wrong, I am in a -.62 system and I only get 3 havens, no sanctums since the patch.


This has been miss quoted a few times, so to correct it;

With full upgrades, this is how I feel it should break down;

It was my opinion how the changes SHOULD be, not how they ARE. The -0.3 to -0.4 having one haven is correct though. (At Lv5 military)

To all the haters out their trying to grow their self importance by bashing on the "carebears", you fail to see why this is an issue.

1) CCP made these changes in Dominion because they acknowledged that most of these systems are totally worthless. They also put isk sinks in place. If anything, the sinks should be increased, gradually, until a happy spot is found.

2) The changes can not be inflation related as they are ISOLATED. If this were really about turning off the taps, empire should have been equally hit. After all, as you all keep reminding us; it has a larger population thus a greater potential to generate isk. (Many 0.0 carebears already doing so, in fact)

3) The changes were put in last minute, as a foot note, and they are terribly unbalanced.

4) It is far more expensive to live in 0.0 than empire/low-sec. On top of the damage we do to each other on a daily basis, 0.0 also has maintence costs that empire/low-sec people are not exposed to.

5) They did this with no community support, input or discussion. Do you remember seeing the CSM being consulted?

6) They gave inaccurate, flawed or just plain false reasoning for the change.

7) The (very) limited response so far has been short sighted at best. This isn't about opposing the changes (at least not for me) it's about either making them global (nerf ALL isk fountains) or at least give real, solid, irrefutable reasoning for not only implementing the changes, but also doing so WITHOUT any community interaction.

If those aren't reason enough to get you fired up or at least slightly agitated, I doubt any reason presented will sway you beyond your own prejudice.

As far as reasoning goes, from CCP Grayscales second response:

Quote:
- Related to this, the current concern about low-value space as it relates to new alliances is that, because it can be upgraded to be almost as good as anywhere else in the game, there's little incentive to move along once you're there. Dominion worked well with getting these regions more useful and more occupied, but we're concerned that unless the current tenants have a good reason to want to leave behind the infrastructure they've built up and move on to better areas, the next crop of prospective alliances are going to find they have nowhere to go.


So basically what he's saying is that CCP expects you to drop billions into system development, dropping outposts, etc. Then move because you don't like your current rats, you will need to invest trillions (spread across many accounts) into getting new space, by forcing out it's current owners. You'll also need to do all of this with space that is so worthless that no self respect power block wants it. (Because if they did, they would have it by now)

Apparently, this reasoning made sense at CCP. /facepalm

Also, help keep this thread alive! 200 pages is the new goal. If we still have no proper response from CCP by then, we'll need to take more drastic steps.
Quoting this entire post for truth and justice.

And so, CCP's customers are left holding steaming bags of ****, having sunk countless billions of ISK into now worthless space.

It is fair to ask: what were CCP's true motivators for taking this action?

zxsteel
Gallente
Darkness Of Absolution
Posted - 2011.04.25 18:02:00 - [3353]
 

Edited by: zxsteel on 25/04/2011 19:14:54
Edited by: zxsteel on 25/04/2011 18:07:03
Don't stop replying keep the message out! Keep replying! I'm sure ccp wont beable to hide this topic now, with this fast growing topic!~

I'm sure 'CCP Zymurgist" checking this out, hot topic it is, I think ccp needs to bring fun back to 0.0, in groups effects so pay out better be worth it!

Whats up CCP Zymurgist? what do you think mr. ccp sir? Should we keep replying?

SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!

-

DAY ONE REPLY! - DAY LUCK?

Sebastian Hoch
Posted - 2011.04.25 18:25:00 - [3354]
 

Checking back in here. This is still a really bad idea and the consequences are widely felt. Outside of schadenfreude from the trolls this is not making anyone's game better. Looking forward to some kind of additional comment/dialogue/feedback from CCP Data---with pretty charts would be nice.

Where is this ship sailing? What is the vision?

<crickets>

chirp...chirp....chirp...

Anyone??? Bueller Bueller??


Danastar
Posted - 2011.04.25 18:30:00 - [3355]
 

yeah CCP,

tell us how well your model is working... dare you

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2011.04.25 19:25:00 - [3356]
 

Originally by: zxsteel
SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!


Please keep discussing this and how it has changed things, but please don't spam the thread with /signed posts Crying or Very sad. Constructive feedback is the best response.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.04.25 19:44:00 - [3357]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Originally by: zxsteel
SIGNED! Once a day until CCP replies! To show ccp we want this topic looked at, I ask everyone to please keep replying once a day once a week or month!


Please keep discussing this and how it has changed things, but please don't spam the thread with /signed posts Crying or Very sad. Constructive feedback is the best response.


OMFG!!! A crappy response to something thgat has NOTHING to do woth the subject at hand!

Inflation is a ***** huh? Then get rid of the damn PI altogether and put POS fuel back in NPC hands, there's your ISK sink, not ****ing the casual player who does not see EVE as a second job that he pays for.

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:06:00 - [3358]
 

Lol, you shouldn't have fueled the fire. Everyone who posts on this topic is either a troll or is just butthurt about the change.

Fact: its still extremely easy to make isk
Fact: if you can't afford to pvp your doing it wrong
Fact: if your butthurt about this change then you are/were in a pet alliance and you were just bearing it up in 0.0 where you got to think you were 1337

Cry moar, pls cry moar

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:30:00 - [3359]
 

This came at the perfect time for me.

I just moved to a house on the beach near Malibu. F*** you CCP. I am going to score a LOT of RL chicks this summer.

Bye.

Heathyy
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:34:00 - [3360]
 

Edited by: Heathyy on 25/04/2011 20:35:51
Originally by: Karl Planck
Lol, you shouldn't have fueled the fire. Everyone who posts on this topic is either a troll or is just butthurt about the change.

Fact: its still extremely easy to make isk if you own a moon pos or have 10 bot alts mining away 24/7 < i agree
Fact: if you can't afford to pvp your doing it wrong or your not a neckbeard that sits there carebearing all day.
Fact: if your butthurt about this change then you are/were in a pet alliance and you were just bearing it up in 0.0 where you got to think you were 1337 < being a 0.0 resident is more fun than never leaving jita 4/4 be it pet powerbloc, hell even pirate. pvp without a steady isk income = boring

Cry moar, pls cry moar


I fixed it for you.

I think the only ppl that are allowed to cry in this topic are the ones that actually spent all the isk upgrading their space. its isk they wont get back or even have a chance to reverse.

the fact is you never read any of the pages of this topic, im not denying some ppl do carebear nonstop yet alot of ppl do this with alts while their main is actually out defending space or just roaming around.

if you fail to see that the only players this change affects is mainly the average joe that has no passive income or multiple alts hell even time to just sit there all day grinding. then you are seriously short sighted.


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