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Big Nutts
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:43:00 - [1]
 

When the hell is ccp going to grow some and take these originals out of the data base ???

even make the payment back to these lucky old time players that do have them back to them in return, Make them play the eve that most of us have to play instead of playing a high all mighty roll in the game,YES we have to invent at a rubbish % at a out come of -4 -4 while they sell there copies of the originals with +100 +100 and over wtf ?

SO come on ccp let us all play the same EVE as its ment to be !!!!

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:46:00 - [2]
 

you want them to zero out all the skill points while they are at it? T2 Invention makes a profit, period. L2math.

Big Nutts
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:49:00 - [3]
 

so bring back ORIGINALS so we ALL can buy them ....and make huge profit. period !!

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:49:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 21/03/2011 19:50:10
I think you have zero comprehension of market economics. They also weren't sold they were a lottery.

Captain Die
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 21/03/2011 19:50:10
I think you have zero comprehension of market economics. They also weren't sold they were a lottery.

Big Nutts
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:52:00 - [6]
 

LMAO what the ones that have the typ2 originals make all the profit and the rest after they were sold dont ??

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:57:00 - [7]
 

There was a small mention by CCP that there's going to be some announcement about BPs. I don't remember if it was going to be a fanfest announcement or a dev blog. Hopefully a dev blog because stuff that is talked about at fanfest is pointless crap that has nothing to do with EVE.

In any case, take your meds. Go smoke something calming. Let's see if anything interesting is going to happen before we make uninformed incoherent rants.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Big Nutts
When the hell is ccp going to grow some and take these originals out of the data base ???

When are you going to grow some balls and realize there's nothing wrong with them ?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1360780
^^^ I challenge you to PROVE that they NEED to be removed.

Maculus
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:02:00 - [9]
 

I guess that the announcement will be that T2 BPO Originals, count for .1% of all Tech2 items produced. Invention has nullified T2 BPO ownership , to the point that its just a status symbol now.

A t2 bpo can only produce one item at a time, with invention I can fill my slots with t2 production that dwarf t2 production, work it out ..

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:07:00 - [10]
 

As a T2 BPO owner, I can say they are wtfpwnOP, and you cant take mine away from me cause you cant prove anything!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:10:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 21/03/2011 20:12:01
Originally by: mkmin
There was a small mention by CCP that there's going to be some announcement about BPs. I don't remember if it was going to be a fanfest announcement or a dev blog.

Ah, you and your nice rumour spreading... probably not your fault, but anyway... it came from a recent devblog about the work on "little things" by "team BFF", as a teaser for the next wave of SMALL STUFF fixes.
It's almost certainly merely about a way to distinguish BPOs from BPCs fast and easy in your hangar or something like that.
Originally by: Sig Sour
As a T2 BPO owner, I can say they are wtfpwnOP, and you cant take mine away from me cause you cant prove anything!

So how many could you sell right now for 5+ years' worth of profit on them ?
And don't you think you could make more ISK by simply speculating on the market with that ISK you got from'em ?
Smile

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:10:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Maculus
I guess that the announcement will be that T2 BPO Originals, count for .1% of all Tech2 items produced. Invention has nullified T2 BPO ownership , to the point that its just a status symbol now.

A t2 bpo can only produce one item at a time, with invention I can fill my slots with t2 production that dwarf t2 production, work it out ..


Well, there was a QEN a while ago about the different BPO and invention production. With some things the BPOs were making invention not profitable because of how easily they could keep up with demand. They didn't have anything as specific as ".1%" but having entire ship classes controlled by a handful of people sounds significant. A lot of the complaint is the injustice that the original holders got them absolutely free and either hold them or sell them for billions.

Big Nutts
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:12:00 - [13]
 

The point is that people with the original bpo can just make copies from it non stop and constant profit selling them that way also,we all see it the normal jo blogs selling say a typ2 mining drone bpc with a 10 run -4 -4 at 2 million and to that point god knows how many attempts its taken to get them.

Then theres lucky jo selling his copies for 10 million a peice at 100 runs +100 +100
and yes think of the production going on behind that 1 original.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:13:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: mkmin
There was a small mention by CCP that there's going to be some announcement about BPs. I don't remember if it was going to be a fanfest announcement or a dev blog.

Ah, you and your nice rumour spreading... probably not your fault, but anyway... it came from a recent devblog about the work on "little things" by "team BFF", as a teaser for the next wave of SMALL STUFF fixes.
It's almost certainly merely about a way to distinguish BPOs from BPCs fast and easy in your hangar or something like that.


If it was a simple icon change, I doubt there would be a need for a separate announcement. Well, unless it's a "omg we worked so hard to get this to work" kind of thing, in which case, it still doesn't need it's own announcement.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:20:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Big Nutts
The point is that people with the original bpo can just make copies from it non stop and constant profit selling them that way also,we all see it the normal jo blogs selling say a typ2 mining drone bpc with a 10 run -4 -4 at 2 million and to that point god knows how many attempts its taken to get them.

Then theres lucky jo selling his copies for 10 million a peice at 100 runs +100 +100
and yes think of the production going on behind that 1 original.


You really don't have the slightest clue how long it takes to make a T2 BPC do you? Wink

J1LT
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:21:00 - [16]
 

If your adamant you have to come on the forum ranting about (insert subject here) Atleast get it right!

It's TECH 2 not typ!
Rolling Eyes

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:21:00 - [17]
 

1. I don't own any T2 BPO, probably never will, unless someone wants to offload one at 500m (Shocked LOL, yeah right)
2. There is nothing wrong with T2 BPO
3. There aren't that many T2 BPO as compared to T2 items that *can* be built.

as to the "well XX can sell a 100/100 at 10m and I only get 2m for my -4/-4" argument -- invent something else.


Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:22:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Big Nutts
When the hell is ccp going to grow some and take these originals out of the data base ???

even make the payment back to these lucky old time players that do have them back to them in return, Make them play the eve that most of us have to play instead of playing a high all mighty roll in the game,YES we have to invent at a rubbish % at a out come of -4 -4 while they sell there copies of the originals with +100 +100 and over wtf ?

SO come on ccp let us all play the same EVE as its ment to be !!!!


All I read was "WHHAARRRGGARRBBLLLLLLLLL cry". I've been playing for over 5 years now, I don't have any T2 bpos and I don't care that other people do. When the hell are you going to grow a brain and go away? Give your parents back the DNA they wasted on you, let nature have another go and see if she can invent something a little less rubbish.

So come on mother nature, create something at least half as normal as the rest of us.

Big Nutts
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:22:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Big Nutts
The point is that people with the original bpo can just make copies from it non stop and constant profit selling them that way also,we all see it the normal jo blogs selling say a typ2 mining drone bpc with a 10 run -4 -4 at 2 million and to that point god knows how many attempts its taken to get them.

Then theres lucky jo selling his copies for 10 million a peice at 100 runs +100 +100
and yes think of the production going on behind that 1 original.


You really don't have the slightest clue how long it takes to make a T2 BPC do you? Wink



No but i would love to have the chance to , Just like the people that already have them Rolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:23:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 21/03/2011 20:24:36
Originally by: mkmin
If it was a simple icon change, I doubt there would be a need for a separate announcement. Well, unless it's a "omg we worked so hard to get this to work" kind of thing, in which case, it still doesn't need it's own announcement.
The thing is that it isn't a simple icon change — it would require a complete revamp of how BP:s are represented in the database.

Historically, from what we've been told, BPO:s and BPC:s have been the same items, basically only with different "max use" counts, and retrieving this stat to separate the two would require digging into a much slower part of the database. If they wanted to create a different means of separation, they'd more or less have to add 50% more items to the game and add new flags to 2/3ds of the data set. A rather large job as well as one that would take up precious itemIDs (which in and of itself would cause some additional slowdown).

Now that we got that handy 64bit upgrade, there are a whole lot more itemIDs to play with, so they can probably do that separation on a higher level in ways that simply weren't practical before.
Originally by: Big Nutts
No but i would love to have the chance to , Just like the people that already have them
Go look it up. You'll notice pretty quickly why you probably want to do invention if you want to produce in volume and actually make some money…

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:28:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 21/03/2011 20:30:10
Originally by: mkmin
If it was a simple icon change, I doubt there would be a need for a separate announcement. Well, unless it's a "omg we worked so hard to get this to work" kind of thing, in which case, it still doesn't need it's own announcement.

Yes, it is far more complicated than changing the icon, and if they really did pull that off, they did work quite hard on it.
As for whether it deserves its own announcement... considering the oodles of people that kept requesting that feature, I would have to say that yes, it DOES warrant its own separate big reveal.
Laughing

Originally by: mkmin
Well, there was a QEN a while ago about the different BPO and invention production. With some things the BPOs were making invention not profitable because of how easily they could keep up with demand. They didn't have anything as specific as ".1%" but having entire ship classes controlled by a handful of people sounds significant. A lot of the complaint is the injustice that the original holders got them absolutely free and either hold them or sell them for billions.

Those items where the market is fully controlled by T2 BPO owners is for low demand items only, and the price per item is obviously below the price where invention would break even, so the profit of T2 BPO owners is severely limited. Heck, in most cases, the T2 BPO owners themselves can barely make a profit with those items, since the demand is so low that only a fraction of the T2 BPO items that exist for those items are in production.

All the "good" T2 BPOs are those for items on which invention is profitable, how funny is that ?
T2 BPOs for items where invention is not profitable are junk T2 BPOs anyway.


Also, the original owners certainly DIDN'T get them "for free".
They had to have noticeable amounts of RPs on them to have any reasonable chance of getting a halfway decent blueprint, and getting RP was far from easy back then compared to now (getting the needed standings was harder, daily missions were more difficult, etc) - and accepting the offer wiped out ALL the RP on the agent that gave it out. If you got a "meh" offer you had the choice to waste a lot of RP on a lousy T2 BPO, or you could decline and wait for a better offer that never came again.
Then, at the end of the T2 BPO lottery, invention was released at the same time as the many new blueprints form the "accelerated distribution" were being handed out... and people had the even nastier choice between sticking with the chance to get a T2 BPO (again, chance to get a good one was very small, and getting a junk one was far morelikely) or the certainty of selling their RP as the newly introduced datacores for absolutely outrageously high prices... and it wasn't a thing that only lasted a day or two, it dragged on quite a while.

Finally, many T2 BPOs are no longer in the hands of the original owners, so even the question of the "fairness" of the lottery is pointless.
Since most people that have their hands on "good" T2 BPOs have actually paid ISK to get them instead of getting them through the lottery, the issue of luck is completely moot. It was and still is a simple business decision to own a T2 BPO if you can afford one.
I would argue that since after the introduction of invention, owning a T2 BPO is usually a bad business decision, unless you have SO MUCH ISK that you really, really, really have no idea what ELSE to do with. Apparently, there's enough people like that, since T2 BPOs are still being purchased at the outrageously tiny RoIs they have nowadays.

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:30:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Big Nutts
typ2


If you are going to whine about something, at least make sure you know what it is you are whining about you pathetic fool. It is TECH 2, not Typ2, so now it is clear you are an utter moron with nothing but noble gasses between your ears please do us a favour and go play in traffic.

Big Nutts
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: Big Nutts
typ2


If you are going to whine about something, at least make sure you know what it is you are whining about you pathetic fool. It is TECH 2, not Typ2, so now it is clear you are an utter moron with nothing but noble gasses between your ears please do us a favour and go play in traffic.



And it seems to me that the children are out of school early today.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:35:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Big Nutts
The point is that people with the original bpo can just make copies from it non stop

Did you just hit your head on a brick wall or what's with all the stupid you're spitting ?
You _ARE_ aware of the fact that MANUFACTURING from a T2 BPO is usually at least twice, usually up to three times as profitable as copying it and selling the copies, aren't you ?!?
The only exceptions would again be for items nobody friggin' cares about (where the T2 BPO owner won't bother manufacturing since even a T1 BPO will bring him more profit per manufacture slot), in which case, those purchasing the T2 BPCs in question are morons, because for how much the blueprint and materials cost, they could have just bought the items from the market cheaper.

Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:41:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Cory Sopapilla on 21/03/2011 20:50:30
Originally by: Maculus
A t2 bpo can only produce one item at a time, with invention I can fill my slots with t2 production that dwarf t2 production, work it out ..


*edit* bleh forget it. I was talking on the phone & trying to do math @ work. Long story short, they can make 10 copies and build at a fraction of the time.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:43:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Cory Sopapilla
With the original at 50 time eff, it's 14H 17.5 mins per run, or 5.9 days for the same 10 runs (1 million units) using only 1 slot at half the mineral requirements.
…and how many runs can you do in parallel with that BPO?
How many runs can you do in parallel with your invented BPCs?

Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:52:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Big Nutts
No but i would love to have the chance to , Just like the people that already have them Rolling Eyes


Stop trolling the forums and buy one then!

Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:53:00 - [28]
 

Yeah I thought of that while on the conference call and edited. But when I did have access to a T2 BPO, I was doing 20 at a time in parallel with copies.

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.21 21:03:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Big Nutts
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: Big Nutts
typ2


If you are going to whine about something, at least make sure you know what it is you are whining about you pathetic fool. It is TECH 2, not Typ2, so now it is clear you are an utter moron with nothing but noble gasses between your ears please do us a favour and go play in traffic.



And it seems to me that the children are out of school early today.


Far from being a child, I am actually an annoyed adult who is sick of seeing the constant whines about "OMG THEY HAZ T2 BPOS AND I DONT, CCP MUST DELETE THEM". The reason those players have T2 BPO's is because they have been around longer than you and were here when there was the opportunity to win one in the T2 BPO lottery. Those same players also have many more skill points than you, should CCP remove those until you have the same amount?

Don't answer that last question, it was rhetorical. You are just going to have to live with the fact that some people have been here longer than you, and that some opportunities that were available then aren't now. If it makes your life personally so miserable then maybe it would be best if you didn't play EVE anymore, because what you want you aren't going to get.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.03.21 21:03:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Cory Sopapilla
Yeah I thought of that while on the conference call and edited. But when I did have access to a T2 BPO, I was doing 20 at a time in parallel with copies.


Now why would you do that when making the copies takes at least 3 times longer than simply producing from the BPO? You would be cutting your actual production numbers to 1/3 capacity.

There isn't any point to running 20 copies for production simultaneously if the copy making process takes 3X longer than simply producing the item... unless you are trying to flood the market or trick foolish people into making threads like this. Laughing

The only possible inequity in this situation is for the people that invested huge amounts of effort/time/ISK in aquiring T2 BPOs only to have them devalued to the point of near uselessness by the invention process.

Personally I feel that invention was a necessary price to pay to ensure that there is no possbility of easily cornering the market on T2 items. Harsh, but for the most part fair. However argueing that the T2 BPO owner has some incredible in game advantage is ludicrous at best.


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