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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:49:00 - [61]
 

Many years ago some of my friends vowed they will never purchase any game, that would not support DOS anymore and would require them to install Windows 95.

These people are still playing games, so do I (not on Win95 of course Razz

Terry Teo
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:50:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
we are working on securing a discount deal with a graphics card vendor
let me guess: nvidia? :P
It's a known vendor that we have a close partnership with. Very Happy


OH MY GOD THE CARD IS BEING SUPPLIED BY SATAN!!

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:52:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Daneel Trevize
But why is there a need for a grace period if we can recustomize whenever??


Re-customize only allows you to change certain things about your character. Not body type, bone structure, face and so forth.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:55:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Captian Conrad
Wont need upgrading, but BIG KUDOS TO CCP for trying to partnership with a GPU vender for those 9k souls, 1st company i know that has tryed to Very Happyugh


Please wrap your head around the fact that it is far from trivial to upgrade a 5 or 6 year old computer with a modern graphics card.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:03:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Chinwe Rhei
My card does support Shader Model 3 (7600GT) but the character editor is really slow on it unless i turn the shaders to Low. The way i usually create a character is start with Low shaders, sculpt everything and then switch to High shaders only for the final touches.
The spaceship game itself is just fine with shaders on High.

I was hoping that i can run the Incarna part with Low shaders and frankly i don't think any card older than 3 years or so (and none of the integrated cards at all) will run Incarna on High shaders smoothly with a dozen avatars running around.



My laptop can run EVE just fine, and acording to the app it does support SM 3.0 in spite of having some ind of on-board graphics card, but I was unable to run the character customization interface, it was exceedingly slow and laggy (with everything set to minimum), so I had to visit a friend and borrow his computer to customize my main and my alt.

It'll be interesting to see if I can actually play EVE after SM 3 becomes mandatory.

And no, I cannot buy an EVE-suitable gaming rig for $300. I live in a placed called Europe, and first of all, electronics costs more here, and secondly we have to pay something called taxes.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:22:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Captian Conrad
Wont need upgrading, but BIG KUDOS TO CCP for trying to partnership with a GPU vender for those 9k souls, 1st company i know that has tryed to Very Happyugh


Don't think the entirety of that number lives in places where they can order gpus with the discount.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:29:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Daneel Trevize
But why is there a need for a grace period if we can recustomize whenever??


Re-customize only allows you to change certain things about your character. Not body type, bone structure, face and so forth.


Does recustomize let people rotate the head, change lighting and so on? I like my face but I royally screwed up with the lights.

Nate719
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:56:00 - [68]
 

Is there plans to still allow sm2.0 and lower? I currently play on a POS laptop. Can't afford a upgrade yet and wouldn't like missing out on the wonderful life of Eve... can't really replace a GFX Card from a laptop so your vendor deal will cover probally 50% of the subjected 9,000 people.

ACESsiggy
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:59:00 - [69]
 

BRAVO CCP!!!! Time for some users to move out of the stone age. No, seriously lol.ugh

Qordel
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2011.03.21 21:35:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Qordel on 21/03/2011 21:37:22
I was certain this already occurred a couple of years ago. Hell, I remember the endless angry threads about it (mostly from people that felt a demanding modern game should play on not only hardware from just after the turn of the century, but on laptops that old.

Anyway, I'm glad to see EVE continue a path of evolution and to push new limits rather than be hamstrung by obligations to aging systems. Keep moving forward, without unnecessarily pushing a subset of players away due to limitations, when possible. There are only so many resources to go around for devotion to legacy support.

Best of luck.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2011.03.21 22:01:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Nate719
Is there plans to still allow sm2.0 and lower? I currently play on a POS laptop. Can't afford a upgrade yet and wouldn't like missing out on the wonderful life of Eve... can't really replace a GFX Card from a laptop so your vendor deal will cover probally 50% of the subjected 9,000 people.
In the next point release then Shader Model 2 will continue to work, even if not officially supported, but you may find that parts of the Character Creator and/or Character Recustomisation may be inaccessible. In some point release thereafter then Shader Model 3 will become the minimum working requirement.

Nate719
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.03.21 22:11:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Nate719
Is there plans to still allow sm2.0 and lower? I currently play on a POS laptop. Can't afford a upgrade yet and wouldn't like missing out on the wonderful life of Eve... can't really replace a GFX Card from a laptop so your vendor deal will cover probally 50% of the subjected 9,000 people.
In the next point release then Shader Model 2 will continue to work, even if not officially supported, but you may find that parts of the Character Creator and/or Character Recustomisation may be inaccessible. In some point release thereafter then Shader Model 3 will become the minimum working requirement.


Thanks for the clarification.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.03.21 22:15:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Salpad

Re-customize only allows you to change certain things about your character. Not body type, bone structure, face and so forth.


Does recustomize let people rotate the head, change lighting and so on? I like my face but I royally screwed up with the lights.


I'd guess that yes, you can change that with re-customization. I'm not sure, but it mkakes a lot of sense to me.

Twohanded Fighter
Posted - 2011.03.21 22:16:00 - [74]
 

I can't even bring myself to rat anymore. I can't afford a new system, so I guess we're done.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.21 22:19:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Sturmwolke on 21/03/2011 22:46:10

Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The Shader Model 3 requirement will be for all of EVE Online. The Incarna expansion will need Shader Model 3 but one of the changes we are currently working on, and will be detailed later, will require Shader Model 3 everywhere.


What is the MINIMUM amount of GPU memory required for these Shader 3.0 cards?


Can someone from CCP clarify this very simple question?

If one was to rely implicitly on past requirements (see here), then you're looking at 64MB to run EVE. Does this still apply?

As for the character creator & Incarna in general, I would suggest writing down/modifying the above link to include the caveats.
Please state the minimum requirements in order to access parts that may not be accessible. You have stated SM3.0, fine. What about memory?

It really boils down to the definition of "Minimum" and "Recommended".
When someone sees recommended, it's a suggestion, but not a must. Minimum implies a must.

Let's make it simple, so that there is no room for misintrepretation.

1) What is the minimum requirement to run EVE?
2) What is the minimum requirement to FULLY ACCESS all of EVE's features?

Edit: clarity

Twohanded Fighter
Posted - 2011.03.21 23:21:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Sturmwolke
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 21/03/2011 22:46:10

Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The Shader Model 3 requirement will be for all of EVE Online. The Incarna expansion will need Shader Model 3 but one of the changes we are currently working on, and will be detailed later, will require Shader Model 3 everywhere.


What is the MINIMUM amount of GPU memory required for these Shader 3.0 cards?


Can someone from CCP clarify this very simple question?

If one was to rely implicitly on past requirements (see here), then you're looking at 64MB to run EVE. Does this still apply?

As for the character creator & Incarna in general, I would suggest writing down/modifying the above link to include the caveats.
Please state the minimum requirements in order to access parts that may not be accessible. You have stated SM3.0, fine. What about memory?

It really boils down to the definition of "Minimum" and "Recommended".
When someone sees recommended, it's a suggestion, but not a must. Minimum implies a must.

Let's make it simple, so that there is no room for misintrepretation.

1) What is the minimum requirement to run EVE?
2) What is the minimum requirement to FULLY ACCESS all of EVE's features?

Edit: clarity


LoL. That is obviously an outdated minimum as of April 5th. They've upped the minimum requirements to basically what is the "recommended" computer.

LarpingBard
Posted - 2011.03.21 23:23:00 - [77]
 

Tell CCP Zulu to thank the dev team for alienating a huge chunk of their users. Account is canceled guys.

David Carel
Caldari
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.21 23:58:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: LarpingBard
Tell CCP Zulu to thank the dev team for alienating a huge chunk of their users. Account is canceled guys.


3% for sure is a huge chunk.

LarpingBard
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:07:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: LarpingBard on 22/03/2011 00:10:09
Originally by: David Carel
Originally by: LarpingBard
Tell CCP Zulu to thank the dev team for alienating a huge chunk of their users. Account is canceled guys.


3% for sure is a huge chunk.


Well, I know you all must have great jobs in this recession, but I don't. I rubbed together a few pennies last year to get a comp since my other one pretty much is dying. It was my first comp upgrade in 8 years. And now it can't run EvE, so CCP can keep all you immature trolls.

I believe CCP Zulu should edit his post to let those with GMA laptops, netbooks, and nettops that they can't play eve anymore. I think a lot of people think that they're talking about "8 year old computers". My 10 year old p4 has a SM 3.0 card that really can't run eve. My laptop has a GMA that can. They broke EvE for me, and for many, many others, who will probably get a rude awakening when their 1 to 2 year old computers (NOT 8 yo) stop playing eve.

Maul555
Amarr
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:54:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Maul555 on 22/03/2011 01:04:06
Holy hell... I was able to get a modern low end graphics card for $25 a year ago that runs eve just fine, and and that is brand new from newegg... It is a Radeon HD4350, 512Mb. I am sure you can get better now for a similar price.

Like this Radeon HD 5450 at newegg...

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:57:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Many years ago some of my friends vowed they will never purchase any game, that would not support DOS anymore and would require them to install Windows 95.

These people are still playing games, so do I (not on Win95 of course Razz


Sadly this move by companys has been quite sad.
Compare computers to consoles, and look at just how much better a console can outgame a PC that's better in the overall specifications.

Here's a good question for the ccp devs, now that we are "Supporting" newer hardware, are we going to see proper updates for multi-threading (I know that it supports it now to some extent) and better yet, a 64 bit client :)...

I am sure a 64 bit client was made, did it improve gpu usage at all?...
For me, the eve bottleneck seems to be a mix of RAM and GPU, the CPU itself never gets tasked.

Seti@Home and 8 clients = all run happily.. But I have to be careful because opening up a few excel sheets and web pages can then make me run out of ram ;P.... The low cpu usage is nice (4-7% per client on my pc), but a thin client would be SOOOOO Great!...

Even if that thin client was only allowed to log in while a character is docked, and the thin client wouldnt allow undocking. That would probably be ample for a lot of people who want to manage orders, chat, and deal with production jobs.

I dont think anyone should expect todays "Value" Netbooks to play anything other than solitare or perhaps older games. Doom2 can run on my kids NintendoDS, but I dont expect eve to be ported over :P.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.03.22 01:33:00 - [82]
 

When did Eve users say they wanted flashy graphics at the expense of speed and compatability?

I see to remember that when you removed the Classic graphics engine people actually complained.

Was talking to a mate just yesterday who was saying he'd start playing again if you re-introduced "classic" graphics.


Flashy shinny is not on many priority lists among players.

Simply update the sky-boxes and you'll be done with graphics for another 5 years.

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.03.22 01:33:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: DeODokktor on 22/03/2011 01:36:31
Originally by: LarpingBard


Well, I know you all must have great jobs in this recession, but I don't. I rubbed together a few pennies last year to get a comp since my other one pretty much is dying. It was my first comp upgrade in 8 years. And now it can't run EvE, so CCP can keep all you immature trolls.

I believe CCP Zulu should edit his post to let those with GMA laptops, netbooks, and nettops that they can't play eve anymore. I think a lot of people think that they're talking about "8 year old computers". My 10 year old p4 has a SM 3.0 card that really can't run eve. My laptop has a GMA that can. They broke EvE for me, and for many, many others, who will probably get a rude awakening when their 1 to 2 year old computers (NOT 8 yo) stop playing eve.


I had to upgrade a card with sm2 support when ccp made that move, sadly the card that was in the machine at the time was faster than the sm2 one that replaced it.. It's all part of the course, CCP did say when the sm2 restrictions were put into place that sm3 was around the corner, so prepare.

Personally, They should have a tech tree on the requirements page stating when things like this may happen. Chances are that they know a good 3-4 years ahead of time when that target date may be needed.

What laptop do you have, just because it uses intels onboard gpu, it doesnt mean that the unit cant be expanded (tho most older laptops may have no upgrade path, and newer ones like mine has no upgrade path either!).

Sm3 hardware has been kicking about for the past 3-4 years so researching and buying a used laptop could be the way forward for you.

Sadly it's just the way things happen these days, but I am sure that ccp will keep more customers by keeping the shiney graphics than they would for supporting older hardware. It's not to say that it's nice, or the best way to treat your existing customer base, but all companys do it and if they dont adjust then people would walk to more shiney games.

*edit..
One more thing, about 10 or so months ago, Microsoft was showing off a sm3 smartphone ;P....
So yes, times have moved on.

Suicide'Alts'FTW
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.03.22 02:20:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: LarpingBard
Tell CCP Zulu to thank the dev team for alienating a huge chunk of their users. Account is canceled guys.


Holy [expletive] man!

If you have a desktop with a free expansion slot that has a CPU that can play EvE now then you have NO EXCUSE. You can buy a video card that supports SM3 for less than $50 to fit in a PCIe, AGP 4x(or 8x), or PCI(that is right, there are PCI video cards that support SM3).

If you have a laptop with a video card made in the last 4 years then you have NO EXCUSE because every nVidia card since the 6XXX series(the last 7 years) has supported it and every ATI card since the 2XXX series(the last 4 years, the 1XXX series supported it except for "vertex texture fetching") has supported it.

The ONLY exception is if you have a laptop/notebook/netbook WITHOUT A PROPER VIDEO CARD that is running an Intel chipset more antiquated than the G965. The Intel GMA X3000, a 5 year old built-in graphics chip, supports SM3.


SHUT.

UP.

YOU.

MISERABLE.

WHINERS!

Brema Gangrel
Caldari
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2011.03.22 03:31:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
Edited by: DeODokktor on 22/03/2011 01:36:31
Sm3 hardware has been kicking about for the past 3-4 years so researching and buying a used laptop could be the way forward for you.


I *know* for a fact that the Nvidia 6600GT supported Shader Model 3 (even on the AGP board). That card was released 7 years ago.

For the others who are asking "how much memory do I need to run the game". On the gfx card, the more the merrier, but 256MB on the GFX card would be about the bare minimum now.

Just checking the prices on a UK website (scan.co.uk) 30 is the *bare minimum* that you would have to pay... and that card comes with 512MB of RAM on it.

Would it play Crysis?

Not above minimum settings, and a resolution larger than 1280x1024, but its possible.

And that should be *more* than enough for Eve Online (I looked at the ATI 4350 card, 30 PCI-e... crysis runs at 20ish fps at the bare minimum settings @ 1280x1024 resolution).

Enthral
Posted - 2011.03.22 03:45:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: DTson Gauur
I hope this means that there will also be an external way coming (read: EveGate) to change the skill queue, your decision just killed about all netbooks which quite happily run the current client enough to chat and manage skills etc.




Name one newer than three years old. Acer, Asus, Dell, Sony netbooks... they've all supported Shader 4.1 for at least a couple of years.

Enthral
Posted - 2011.03.22 04:07:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Captian Conrad
Wont need upgrading, but BIG KUDOS TO CCP for trying to partnership with a GPU vender for those 9k souls, 1st company i know that has tryed to Very Happyugh


Please wrap your head around the fact that it is far from trivial to upgrade a 5 or 6 year old computer with a modern graphics card.



Why is that? It is far from difficult to pick up an EVGA GeForce 6200 for under $40 which supports Shader 3.0 with an AGP interface if your machine is truly that old.

You seem to think that Shader 3.0 is somehow "modern"... it isn't. It's ancient. Shader 4.0 cards have been available since 2006, while Shader 5.0 cards have been available since 2009. Shader 3.0 has been around since 2004.

Spyke BlackIce
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.22 08:24:00 - [88]
 

Approximately 9000 players? I'd wager that that number is significantly higher. What CCP (and apparently a LOT of the posters here) fail to consider is that a lot of companies use older tech in newer computers (especially laptops) to build cost-effective systems. My laptop is a prime example. I'm using a Dell Inspiron with a 17" screen hooked up to my 55" HDTV to play EVE. I can run most graphics settings on high if I wish AND can run two clients. My laptop is just over four years old but the Intel graphics chipset only supports Shader Model 2.0. My system is nowhere near 8+ years old. On top of that, seeing as how it IS an integrated chipset, I can't just upgrade my graphics card. I need a new system now. Mad And I'm quite sure that there are a LOT of other players in the same situation. That 9000 players is in all likelihood just those who are really running old systems. Add in the newer systems like mine (AND those who use older systems to run a second or more accounts) and you have a MUCH higher amount of players affected by this.

I've been meaning to build a new system for well over a year now since my old system got fried and forced me to make use of this laptop for my gaming (and everything else for that matter). But the recession has not been kind to my line of work (drywaller/construction worker) and I am going to have a very difficult time getting the funds to build a new system. The one thing that I will thank CCP for - they have finally divulged the reason why so many of us are having issues with the CC AND have given us a more time to try to get our systems up to the new minimum requirements by extending the grace period a few more months. I for one am going to try to come up with the funds to put a new system together (started shopping for deals already - eBay, Amazon, & Craig's List, here I come) since I've been needing one for quite some time, but this isn't going to be easy nor cheap for me and many others.

Elis Trader
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.22 08:57:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Nate719
Is there plans to still allow sm2.0 and lower? I currently play on a POS laptop. Can't afford a upgrade yet and wouldn't like missing out on the wonderful life of Eve... can't really replace a GFX Card from a laptop so your vendor deal will cover probally 50% of the subjected 9,000 people.
In the next point release then Shader Model 2 will continue to work, even if not officially supported, but you may find that parts of the Character Creator and/or Character Recustomisation may be inaccessible. In some point release thereafter then Shader Model 3 will become the minimum working requirement.


"I haven't read like 95% of replies in this thread, so lets moan on..."

Naah, seriously, that is a great news. I wish there was a high end client that would support SM 4.0/4.1 (or maybe even 5 on ultra details). Then You dear CCP could do something about ships graphics, engines, explosions (that is a must they look like 1999 graphics), torpedoes that aint AOE anymore but have graphic effect like that. After all if you go to SOV fights you can turn down your settings right. I am pretty sure there is a good chunk of players who would enjoy all that.

@rest of replies:
LEARN TO READ. Read CCP posts and stop complaining, all what will change is that you won't be able to access PARTS of recustomization features! You can still use your 20 years old PC or 10 year old notebook to do market orders, production or whatever.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.22 09:03:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Is the Shader 3.0 requirement going to be for EVE Online (the spaceships) or is going to be for Carbon/Incarna/Beta for WoD?
The Shader Model 3 requirement will be for all of EVE Online. The Incarna expansion will need Shader Model 3 but one of the changes we are currently working on, and will be detailed later, will require Shader Model 3 everywhere.


Okay

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Nate719
Is there plans to still allow sm2.0 and lower? I currently play on a POS laptop. Can't afford a upgrade yet and wouldn't like missing out on the wonderful life of Eve... can't really replace a GFX Card from a laptop so your vendor deal will cover probally 50% of the subjected 9,000 people.
In the next point release then Shader Model 2 will continue to work, even if not officially supported, but you may find that parts of the Character Creator and/or Character Recustomisation may be inaccessible. In some point release thereafter then Shader Model 3 will become the minimum working requirement.


First you state an upcoming feature that is everywhere (by this, I want to assume you actually mean spaceships and space) will require Shader Model 3 but..

Then you say the only features that will be have a Shader Model 3 requirement is crap dealing with new character creator and that at some *Uncertain* point in the future Shader Model 3 will be standard for the whole game.

Which is it?


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