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LarpingBard
Posted - 2011.03.21 13:48:00 - [31]
 

Please X up if you play your primary or alt exclusively on a SM 2.0 chipset.

X

Minsc
Gallente
Alpha Empire
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:00:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Katrina Bekers
Eight years old graphic cards, huh?

Ok, CCP, nice move and all, but AT VERY LEAST try and be honest with this.

You're shoving down our throat this change. You do it to cut costs, to improve the product, to get rid of legacy, whatever. But at least don't pretend we're dumb or idiot.

The very machine I'm writing this stuff on is a run-of-the-mill office rig (HP DC7800P) with a low-spec graphic card integrated in the Intel Q35 chipset servicing the Core2Duo E8400 CPU.

- It supports SM2.0
- It doesn't support SM3.0 (checked with the app linked in the devblog)
- It is still perfectly adequate for running low intensity tasks ingame like trading, POS caring, PI, hi-sec logistics and social stuff (chat, .
- Probably won't be able to do that once you "discontinue" SM2.0.
- It cannot be upgraded, as it's a work asset I'm allowed to use only after my daytime job is over and I relax a bit before going home.
- Most important, it's a chipset released in June 2007 (reference). That's less than FOUR years ago. Not eight.

Thank you for reducing my play options.


Then maybe it's time for you to buy a gaming system at home.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6932153&Sku=SYX-5007

that system will run the game fine and it's $300.

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:01:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Dariously Primrose Penken
It just really goes to show how far out of touch CCP is with its player base. Yes we like eve, and we can all agree its pretty shiny now, why don't you fix whats wrong with it, instead of covering it up with eye candy in the hopes that the players will be lulled into joygasmic bliss.

If I gave you a nice shiny sports car, with all the latest tech inside of it, but no place for a motor, batteries or any such other means of propulsion or power, and no way of installing such things, would you still want it? Yet we the player base see this happening on a continuing basis, and we still see ccp glossing things over with making things shiny.


CCP Soundwave's dev blog

Link name changed to a more proper name - Adida

Hiram Alexander
Caldari
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:05:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Daneel Trevize
But why is there a need for a grace period if we can recustomize whenever??


Well once the grace period is over, as I understand it, anyone who hasn't created their own portrait will have a random one generated for them - which creates a potential 'problem' for (some) pilots - you'll soon be able to make unlimited changes to your character's *cosmetic* appearance, ie. hairstyle, jacket, pose, etc. What you *won't* be able to change is your 'physical' appearance, ie. weight, skin tone, musculature, etc.

So, if you were happy enough to let CCP give you a random face/fatness/skin colour etc. then the grace period would indeed be a non-issue, otherwise, ending-up a fat freckled Intaki lady, with a huge nose and beady eyes, might invoke a flood of 'tears' - so they've extended the grace period - very wisely.....


--HA

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:16:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Karbowiak
Originally by: Illwill Bill
Edited by: Illwill Bill on 21/03/2011 11:32:38
Meh, can't blame you guys.

So, can anyone recommend a netbook with decent battery life and SM3? I "need" my Eve fix when traveling.

Edit: This better be needed for the new AWESOME cyno effect you promised! Wink


This might sound biased and whatnot..
But a 13" MBP will run EVE nicely, the 2010 model - not the 2011 model..
The SandyBridges graphics card is just not powerfull enough - and its all there is in the 2011 model :(

But the 13" 2010 MBP is quite cheap now, and has a 10h battery life - even when running Windows as primary OS, incase you dont like OSX :)
Oh and they are cheap now the 2011 model is out aswell Wink

I'd be fired on the spot if I walked into the office with a Mac! Very Happy

TheDuffMan
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:30:00 - [36]
 

No more Eve at work for me :-(

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:39:00 - [37]
 

Really, if a game cannot be played with an abacus, a stack of sheets of paper, and some coloured pens, it is not backward compatible enough.

Epitrope
The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:47:00 - [38]
 

It was gracious of you to set up the "over 9000!" joke, but can we get some more numbers, please?

Originally by: changes to cpu requirements with incursion 1.1.0
CPUs that don't support the SSE2 instruction set will not be able to run EVE Online after the Incursion 1.1.0 deployment on Tuesday, January 18, 2011.
...
We estimate that around 0.3% of the playerbase will be affected.

Originally by: shader model 2.0 support discontinued april 5th
We realize there is still a portion of the player base (we estimate around 9,000 users) that has Shader Model 2 cards.


CCP Atropos wrote half a year ago about building thin clients to use for testing. This suggests to me that the client is or has become fairly modular. As someone who would lose the ability to play EVE on two laptops which have previously been enough for S&I and trading, can you build a client which has very low requirements, but which can't undock? Even on my desktop, it would be nice to have a lightweight client that I can leave running without drawing a lot of power.

Vyktor Volentin
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:02:00 - [39]
 

Horrible.

On mac, EVE with 3.0 shader model runs literally 2 frames per second. Creating a character with it was nearly impossible. You don't have a native port of the game for mac/opengl and the only shader model you will be providing slows it down to a crawl.

I run the game on low (2.0) shader settings because that's the only way to get decent fps. You apparently decided that the only statistic you needed was the number of people who have shader model 2.0, instead of how many are actually using it.

Short-sighted as always.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2011.03.21 15:04:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Is the Shader 3.0 requirement going to be for EVE Online (the spaceships) or is going to be for Carbon/Incarna/Beta for WoD?
The Shader Model 3 requirement will be for all of EVE Online. The Incarna expansion will need Shader Model 3 but one of the changes we are currently working on, and will be detailed later, will require Shader Model 3 everywhere.

Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:06:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: Katrina Bekers
(...)
- It cannot be upgraded, as it's a work asset I'm allowed to use only after my daytime job is over and I relax a bit before going home.
(...)
Thank you for reducing my play options.

Then maybe it's time for you to buy a gaming system at home.
(...)

Nothing was said in my post about my home machine. Which, in fact, can support SM3.0 perfectly fine. That was not the point, thank you very much for missing it entirely.

I said reducing my play options. Not removing.

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:15:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Vyktor Volentin
Horrible.

On mac, EVE with 3.0 shader model runs literally 2 frames per second. Creating a character with it was nearly impossible. You don't have a native port of the game for mac/opengl and the only shader model you will be providing slows it down to a crawl.

I run the game on low (2.0) shader settings because that's the only way to get decent fps. You apparently decided that the only statistic you needed was the number of people who have shader model 2.0, instead of how many are actually using it.

Short-sighted as always.

LOL. Even my little 11.6 inch MacBook Air can run EVE pretty nice with most settings on High and some few settings on Medium and still have about 30 fps outside of Jita 4-4 station.

But yeah, i support this change on Shader Model.

Lirinas
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:37:00 - [43]
 

It's the price of progress. When a game like this continues to age, a decision must be made. Should it remain in the past and bore the old players and be overlooked by newer players. Or should it boldly press the frontiers forward to attempt to entice newer players to join and freshen the game, but at the expense of alienating older players unable or unwilling to change?

I personally support and understand this change. It removes the extra overhead, maintenance and manpower needed to develop and test the older SM2 codepath, while fully embracing the "newer" technology.

For those people that are left with computer that won't play EVE, there's been plenty of warning. That CCP is trying to work out a discount deal for people to upgrade is a nice gesture on their part to help those that need it. Other games I've seen that have increased their minimum specs over the years have done no such thing that I've ever seen.

Laptops are going to be the biggest-hit population. My old laptop won't be able to run it anymore, but little loss there. People with netbooks only a couple years old I do sympathize with, but netbooks were never intended to be gaming machines. Most netbooks I've seen have a hard time running Flash games, let alone something like EVE. That you've been able to run EVE on it at all for this long is rather impressive.

People using work computers I have less sympathy for. If you can't justify to your boss the reason you need to upgrade the graphics on your work terminal, then you probably don't need to be playing EVE on it. It's a work computer after all.

Chruker
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:52:00 - [44]
 

jeez, how hard is it to have your game report the hardware statistics. Then you'll have a complete and accurate statistic to base it on.

Alternatively you could just give a light client that can do all the UI intensive stuff (trading, POS managing, PI, skill switching), but just shows space stuff as icons, ex. make navigating from station to station/system just use the solarsystem map view.

Also, while you are at it, have your statistics report collect what zoom level people at using most of the time. I personally zoom very far out just to get an view of whats going on, so any beautifying of the graphics is completely lost.

Alternatively. You could make it so that all the fancy new stuff just allow you to zoom in close to your ship to admire its beauty.

Note: what heck is with the damn edit window... the textarea field is behaving moronicy when typing long replies.

Daelorn
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:22:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Daelorn on 21/03/2011 16:26:51
Originally by: Dariously Primrose Penken
It just really goes to show how far out of touch CCP is with its player base. Yes we like eve, and we can all agree its pretty shiny now, why don't you fix whats wrong with it, instead of covering it up with eye candy in the hopes that the players will be lulled into joygasmic bliss.

If I gave you a nice shiny sports car, with all the latest tech inside of it, but no place for a motor, batteries or any such other means of propulsion or power, and no way of installing such things, would you still want it? Yet we the player base see this happening on a continuing basis, and we still see ccp glossing things over with making things shiny.


Please don't speak for the entire player base. Speak only for yourself.

Your little analogy doesn't even make sense to me. Different teams work on different things. You wouldn't want CCP accounting team coding, now would you?

I'm glad that CCP has the balls to keep EVE progressing all in aspects, even if it means ****ing some people off, rather keeping it stagnant.

Aturi Kuomi
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:26:00 - [46]
 

Any chance of some comparative screenies to look at, or maybe some images of stuff you're working on with the 3.0 shader?

Bl4ck Ph03n1x
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:28:00 - [47]
 

Eve is a modern game.
To play it, you need a modern gaming graphic card. Not an X-years old integrated GPU.

Leiture
Amarr
Liliis tenaci vimine jungor
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:39:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
we are working on securing a discount deal with a graphics card vendor


let me guess: nvidia? :P




And only for North America. Europe deserve to die.

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:57:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Is the Shader 3.0 requirement going to be for EVE Online (the spaceships) or is going to be for Carbon/Incarna/Beta for WoD?
The Shader Model 3 requirement will be for all of EVE Online. The Incarna expansion will need Shader Model 3 but one of the changes we are currently working on, and will be detailed later, will require Shader Model 3 everywhere.


Do they include engine trails and cyno effects?

Pashino
Minmatar
Venice Academy
Posted - 2011.03.21 17:18:00 - [50]
 

Ok, my friends and I have video chips that support Shader 3. The question now is, is that enabled at present in-game? In the ESC menu, on the graphics page, in the Graphic Content Settings there is a setting for Shader quality. Do the High/Low options available there indicate Shader 3/2 or merely shader on/off, or something else? It is important that we know -now- how to enable Shader 3 in-game so that we can evaluate the performance on our current rigs. There are some video chipsets out there that support Shader 3 but totally suck, performance-wise, when it is enabled; and we need a way to prepare for this.

Amarana Idalo
Posted - 2011.03.21 17:53:00 - [51]
 

I too would like being able to log in an adjust skills or move items around on a laptop, and its common to be stuck using a low end intel graphics card on any form of light-weight long battery life laptop.

It might be nice to have a "we expect to support the minimum requirement of shader model X" to last for Y months.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.21 17:56:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
The Shader Model 3 requirement will be for all of EVE Online. The Incarna expansion will need Shader Model 3 but one of the changes we are currently working on, and will be detailed later, will require Shader Model 3 everywhere.


What is the MINIMUM amount of GPU memory required for these Shader 3.0 cards?

Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:17:00 - [53]
 

My card does support Shader Model 3 (7600GT) but the character editor is really slow on it unless i turn the shaders to Low. The way i usually create a character is start with Low shaders, sculpt everything and then switch to High shaders only for the final touches.
The spaceship game itself is just fine with shaders on High.

I was hoping that i can run the Incarna part with Low shaders and frankly i don't think any card older than 3 years or so (and none of the integrated cards at all) will run Incarna on High shaders smoothly with a dozen avatars running around.

Kerr avonn
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:31:00 - [54]
 

CCP: We're going to make EvE even more lovely and shiny than it already isVery Happy
SOME CHEAP ASS PEOPLE: Moan Shocked moan Mad moan Crying or Very sad




Teranul
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:31:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Lirinas
Laptops are going to be the biggest-hit population. My old laptop won't be able to run it anymore, but little loss there. People with netbooks only a couple years old I do sympathize with, but netbooks were never intended to be gaming machines. Most netbooks I've seen have a hard time running Flash games, let alone something like EVE. That you've been able to run EVE on it at all for this long is rather impressive.

People using work computers I have less sympathy for. If you can't justify to your boss the reason you need to upgrade the graphics on your work terminal, then you probably don't need to be playing EVE on it. It's a work computer after all.

QFT&E.

Complaining about not being able to run it on netbooks? Work computers? HI-LA-RI-OUS!

These complaints are, predictably, not even remotely valid. If your PC was not built for gaming to begin with, maybe you shouldn't be gaming on it?

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:49:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu

we currently have to develop for cards up to and over 8 years old.


http://www.xkcd.com/870/

Otherwise, no complaints about the blog.

Arushia
Nova Labs
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:30:00 - [57]
 

So much for playing on my laptop. How the frak am I supposed to update its card?

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2011.03.21 19:47:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
we are working on securing a discount deal with a graphics card vendor
let me guess: nvidia? :P
It's a known vendor that we have a close partnership with. Very Happy

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2011.03.21 19:48:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Is the Shader 3.0 requirement going to be for EVE Online (the spaceships) or is going to be for Carbon/Incarna/Beta for WoD?
The Shader Model 3 requirement will be for all of EVE Online. The Incarna expansion will need Shader Model 3 but one of the changes we are currently working on, and will be detailed later, will require Shader Model 3 everywhere.
Do they include engine trails and cyno effects?
Not this particular project that I'm referring to.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2011.03.21 19:48:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Leiture
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
we are working on securing a discount deal with a graphics card vendor
let me guess: nvidia? :P
And only for North America. Europe deserve to die.
It will be more than just N-America.


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