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blankseplocked Did the NPC corp tax accomplish its goal?
 
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Aamrr
Posted - 2011.03.21 07:18:00 - [1]
 

Or do we just have a bunch of 1-2 man corps for avoiding the 11% tax?

A bit of a poll, I suppose. If you feel that the change was ineffective, pointless, or worse than the problem it solved, check the support box, perhaps with a reason you feel that way.

If you don't, feel free to throw in your two cents too. Smile

Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions

Posted - 2011.03.21 11:06:00 - [2]
 

I fail to see the use of those NPC-corp taxes... Mission runner? Just fly through one more mission every 10-missions cycle and, that's all...

What was the goal of those taxes, right from the beginning? Just suppress them, and we wouldn't see anymore of those solo-guy corps...

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.03.21 11:35:00 - [3]
 

The goal was two fold. First to encourage people to form their own corps and leave the NPC corp nest. Second to remove the unfair tax disadvantage player corps had compared to NPC corps. Player corps have to use taxes to fund corporation activities, so they have to have a tax rating unless they are for the purpose of tax evasion/glorified chat rooms. The average corp tax was around 10% at the time, so the NPC tax was put at 11%. The 10% comes from removing the disadvantage and the 1% is the encouragement to push people to leave the NPC corp.

I will also like to point out, that CCP was quite fine with the fact that many would just form a tax evasion corps, so if that is a problem to someone, it is their personal issue, but it isn't a problem for the game and needs no solution.

I feel it was a good solution to the problem of player run corps having a clear disadvantage in taxation and it made them competative and even attractive compared to NPC corps. The extra encouragement to join player run corporations was just a bonus, so I would say the change has been a success.

Lucy PewPew
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:29:00 - [4]
 

It has accomplished its goal. There are fewer people staying in the safe harbour NPC corps.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:15:00 - [5]
 

:twocents:



MNagy
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:39:00 - [6]
 

I think an NPC corp should tax you about 15-20%.
Forcing you to join a corp.

If you are a new player - you get like 5-12 months grace - 0% tax.

New players are not effected,
Any player wanting to 'hide' in an npc corp that cannot get war dec'd gets taxed from the other end.

Just my opinion - many may not agree... I just dont like the fact that you cannot war dec 1 person in an npc corp.

Cheers'

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.03.22 07:44:00 - [7]
 

Here's my assessment.

The tax does absolutely nothing to remove the disincentive to join player made corps. When you can still get a 0% tax rate by training a 10 minute skill, even the newest player can claim whatever tax rate he pleases. The only difference is that now you're losing a 0% tax rate from a 1-person corporation instead of from NPCs.

The tax does absolutely nothing to remove the "safe harbor" of NPC corps. As long as corp hopping exists, the "complete wardec safety" of an NPC corp is something you can achieve by docking up every 24 hours and clicking "apply to corporation."

The tax penalizes younger players. Before the tax, new players would use NPC corps as a way to acclimate themselves to Eve, find new people, and eventually work their way into a new corporation. Many corps actually kept alts in these NPC corps precisely for that reason. Now, these players are penalized for precisely that, to the tune of 11% of their revenue.

The glut of 1-man corporations has removed many of the available tickers available to new corporations with legitimate aspirations. While not a huge issue, it's significantly worse now than it was.

I feel this cure is far worse than the disease it was meant to treat.

Sessym
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.22 07:45:00 - [8]
 

15% tax is fairly common throughout all corps. I too think a rookie period 0% + 20-25% when not rookie anymore will do more, but nobody stops you to form a corp for just yourself, neither does anything to prevent 'alliance hopping' or 'corp hopping' to escape war decs.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:03:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 23/03/2011 04:05:15
furthermore, mining alts of -10s and 0.0's can permanently stay in npc corps unaffected by war decs and the npc corp tax. and of course, they still do to avoid any risk so the only option left is suicide ganking. so yeah, in actuality, nothing was accomplished from this...

Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:14:00 - [10]
 

Sadly, we do have a bunch of Tax Evasion Corps; which is just a part of how people choose to play the game.

Sad too, is the fact that most people looking to join a Corp these days; whine about even as little, as a 3-5% Tax Rate, and want the corp to supply ships for PvP, and give them ISK for Skills, toys, and the rest.

Try working for it.

I say, we impose a minimum 10% Tax on all Corps from Concord; and double that in NPC Corp's. Possibly even add 5%; for NPC Corps like Aliastra. NPC Corps gotta make ISK too; and so does Concord.

I support my idea Twisted Evil

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.03.23 15:53:00 - [11]
 

if you want universal tax, why not just decrease bounties of all npc rats? the effect is the same.

the whole tax concept is a silly one. there is already sales tax everyone is paying. most profits come from selling of stuff, not from bounties. so why tax them at all? makes no sense...

as of corps, you know you need 1 (real) man corp to set up a POS to be able to invent anything (since all copy slots are taken for weeks ahead) so tax or not, alts corp is a requirement to play this game.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.03.23 17:10:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
Or do we just have a bunch of 1-2 man corps for avoiding the 11% tax?

A bit of a poll, I suppose. If you feel that the change was ineffective, pointless, or worse than the problem it solved, check the support box, perhaps with a reason you feel that way.

If you don't, feel free to throw in your two cents too. Smile


Have you already looked tax rate to all corps existing or that you cross every time you are connected ?

You'll be surprised to see how much of those are over 11% tax, have no reimbursement plan for implants or ships, aask their members to fill cans with enough PI to fuel more POS than they have, give no retribution from mining OP's, don't pay loan services (alike 0.0 or low systems), harvest moons and etc etc. The CEO has nice ships, the directors have nice ships, both have a very good wallet, but I don't see the point of your thread.

The 1-2 men or alts corps are fine, if you would like to have them in your corp then maybe you should start by take a very close look to your own methods and goals, change your corps image and give people the will to join you instead of avoiding you by creating alt corps.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.23 18:23:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Aamrr
Or do we just have a bunch of 1-2 man corps for avoiding the 11% tax?

A bit of a poll, I suppose. If you feel that the change was ineffective, pointless, or worse than the problem it solved, check the support box, perhaps with a reason you feel that way.

If you don't, feel free to throw in your two cents too. Smile


Have you already looked tax rate to all corps existing or that you cross every time you are connected ?

You'll be surprised to see how much of those are over 11% tax, have no reimbursement plan for implants or ships, aask their members to fill cans with enough PI to fuel more POS than they have, give no retribution from mining OP's, don't pay loan services (alike 0.0 or low systems), harvest moons and etc etc. The CEO has nice ships, the directors have nice ships, both have a very good wallet, but I don't see the point of your thread.

The 1-2 men or alts corps are fine, if you would like to have them in your corp then maybe you should start by take a very close look to your own methods and goals, change your corps image and give people the will to join you instead of avoiding you by creating alt corps.


Sounds like a bad corp. Can't imagine people would stick around when there are so many corps out there that don't screw over their members.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.23 18:44:00 - [14]
 

Reduce the cycle time of mining lasers and mining drones by -11% if your in an NPC corp. Very Happy

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.23 19:26:00 - [15]
 

Considering you can actively dec those little 1-2 man corps, I'd say CCP accomplished a nice goal there.

Even if people jump from corp to corp to avoid decs, getting them out of the NPC corps adds a breadth of immersion in ALL aspects of EVE that some had previously been avoiding by cowering under the banner of taxless nubcorpness.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.03.23 22:57:00 - [16]
 

What exactly have they accomplished? I don't think there's any great breadth of immersion to clicking "apply to corporation" each time you get wardec'd.

Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.03.23 23:03:00 - [17]
 

Would you vote to bring back the Draft, in the US, or Canada?

Some people don't want to fight in Wars. This is why they drop Corp; in the event of a Wardec. So they can continue doing what they wish; without being subject to sactioned ganking, in high security space. What does that have to do with Taxes anyhow?

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.03.24 00:45:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Sounds like a bad corp. Can't imagine people would stick around when there are so many corps out there that don't screw over their members.


Take a look at some big known corps/alliances, no need to look at small ones.
So imo it's a false statement when someone comes with another thread about NPC tax.

This kind of misunderstanding will continue until CCP grows some balls and clearly states rules you can't avoid in players corps and some ideas like:
-tax lower than NPC corps by 25% (automatic, you shouldn't be able to avoid this)
-replacement wallets with automatic operations between those
-automatic reimbursement when you loose stuff etc (some % OC like insurance and your standing in the crop)
-split benefits automatic to all members (with some rules where fc's or CEO's have the possibility to agree the % in relation to players investment etc)

Now: players have the entire ability to use/abuse/over abuse with no control possibilities for corpies other than get their own 2man corp or get in NPC corp.

The problem comes from players corps and how they deal their corpies, not the NPC ones.

Victor BlueStone
Posted - 2011.05.09 04:37:00 - [19]
 

The 11% tax on NPC corps was a poorly thought idea and cheap way for CCP to nerf mission runner income. That's all
it really was, an irritating tax to force pilots to leave over chump change. It didn't make me or many others leave
because we have our own reasons for staying in a NPC/rookie corp. I'll give CCP props for the pathetic attempt
at describing the tax as a some added immersion one would have if in a "REAL" player corp. Rolling Eyes

Any rules forcing pilots out of a NPC corp have to be very specific, not time based and put in for a reason. This
tax wasn't it. This is a sandbox after all and if pilots want to stay in a NPC/rookie corp they should be able to.
If CCP REALLY wanted pilots to leave they would design tangible benefits for joining a player corp that would be
absent in the NPC/rookie corps. Even so that wouldn't guarantee pilots leaving. Doesn't matter though, CCP got some
pilots to leave so mission accomplished! Razz

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.05.09 06:45:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 09/05/2011 10:04:48
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 09/05/2011 06:46:17
Originally by: Nyalnara
I fail to see the use of those NPC-corp taxes... Mission runner? Just fly through one more mission every 10-missions cycle and, that's all...

What was the goal of those taxes, right from the beginning? Just suppress them, and we wouldn't see anymore of those solo-guy corps...


ISK sink. Solo guy corps can be wardeced.

Vaju Katru
Posted - 2011.05.10 15:36:00 - [21]
 

After 3 month of eve playtime, any player in a NPC corp automatically joins the FW militia.

Problem solved.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.10 16:10:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Vaju Katru
After 3 month of eve playtime, any player in a NPC corp automatically joins the FW militia.

Problem solved.


Yes, the best way to loose more fresh people playing the game.

Can you figure out since the very first day all rookies have the right to is to be suicide ganked, can flip games from older players, ganked by concord because of game mechanics exploit from older players, scammed and a lot more of juicy stuff.

Yes force them to be the baits of all those deviants over present in the game, it's the best way to add new targets in long term...

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 16:25:00 - [23]
 

As long as those people are making 1-2man corps that can then be properly war-deced and griefed like the holy CCP intended...

Working as intended

Vaju Katru
Posted - 2011.05.10 16:33:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Vaju Katru on 10/05/2011 16:37:02


Swynet, my main beef is with old players that hidde in NPC corporations to prevent wardecs.

3 month old players are not "fresh people". Its more then enough time to learn the basic game mechanics and start/get into a player corporation.

Also you only listed the fun stuff, new players stop playing EvE becouse they get bored of the solo "carebear" playstyle, leaving EvE without having played "EvE", its sad...

So the sonner new players start playing this game, the better.


Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.10 16:55:00 - [25]
 

Vaju,

The thing is that we play in a sandbox, you can choose to pvp or pve and no one should be obliged to do this or that.

I do agree now, after all my IG experiences that a 3 months player can perfectly get in the game's mood but at one condition:
That the player corp where he's getting in assume his implants and ships losses for a year

You know has well has I do how hard is for a newb to get some isk, how hard is for him to evolve in missions and get the good standing to do better missions since the skill gain is not proportional to his investment in the game but to something linear unchangeable no matter what he does, meaning that maybe he's able to do better missions but he can't because he's not skilled enough.

Now, he can pvp, I'm ok with that but what does pvp means to him? -losses: implants he hardly can get+sp loss+ships he can hardly buy/fit and when he looses them what we expect him to do? -spam local begging isk?

In my humble opinion the whole way the rookie gets introduced in to the game is screwed by older players more than the game it self even if improvements are needed, and most of players corps recruiting newbs ask more than they offer to them.

This is my point, this is what I would like to see changed and for that, the whole players corps system has is today must be revamped.

Also some proposals here are excellent.

Avoida
Posted - 2011.05.10 17:20:00 - [26]
 

All that needed done was to treat pilots in NPC corps as employees of those corps in that they do not get to choose missions but are instead are given missions/jobs/tasks to do or face losing standings rapidly. They are essentially employees and should be treated as such.


 

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