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NPC Corp Scout
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:48:00 - [1]
 

Back in 2005, the EVE Community declared unanimously that armor tanking ruled the day.

In 2011, the situation remains the same. Why?

1) Capital Shield Reps cannot cycle under any form of capacitor duress, the activation cost exceeds the value of even the largest cap booster.
2) Anything below battleship becomes unacceptably huge when fitted with any type of shield buffer, resulting in a vastly inferior buffer.
3) Fleet members only need to be as fast as the slowest ship, negating any practical penalty from massive armor plates.

If anyone expects to ever see any shield capital fleets, the first thing they need to do is lower capital remote shield cost, OR create a Cap booster sufficient enough to cycle.

As far as #2 and #3, I don't have any good ideas, but changing the shield penalty to something that doesn't affect a capital supported fleet.

Katie Tanaka
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:57:00 - [2]
 

If you ever expect to see shield capital fleets, you also need to persuade CCP that there should be an implant set that affects shield-tanking EHP for capitals, or persuade them to nerf the Slave set.

KiloAlpha
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:05:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: KiloAlpha on 21/03/2011 08:08:43
Originally by: Katie Tanaka
If you ever expect to see shield capital fleets, you also need to persuade CCP that there should be an implant set that affects shield-tanking EHP for capitals, or persuade them to nerf the Slave set.


Do people really pvp with high end implants in like that (realistically i know the super rich could if they wanted to)? I always looked at the whole expensive implant sets as more of a carebare thing

but this is coming from someone who throws ships at loosing situationsLaughing

edit:i fail at spelling

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:08:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Othran on 21/03/2011 08:11:10
Edited by: Othran on 21/03/2011 08:10:56
3 bill on implants isn't that much if you're flying a 20 bill ship. Anyway the majority of the time (IME) the cap pilots pod gets away if its a fleet fight.

Edit - I flew around Provi last summer for a month with a HG snake set. I'd rather pimp the implants than the ship as the ships usually die way way way before you lose the implants.

KiloAlpha
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:12:00 - [5]
 

very true i guess 3 bil is a drop in the bucket when you are in a hel lol. i live in null but havnt had much experience with cap warfare. still cant really justify 3 bil for rep bonus thoughShocked

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:28:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 21/03/2011 08:28:39
Originally by: KiloAlpha
very true i guess 3 bil is a drop in the bucket when you are in a hel lol. i live in null but havnt had much experience with cap warfare. still cant really justify 3 bil for rep bonus thoughShocked

Laughing

Crystal implants don't apply to capital shield boosters.

but Slave implants apply to the HP of capital/supercapital ships.

... which is one of the reasons why nobody flies a Hel.

Zoloft Rx
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:31:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Zoloft Rx on 21/03/2011 08:32:21
in my experience, implants are for lowsec and higher. In 0.0 fights, my pod always seems to end in some kind of bubble. Theres always someone on the opposing team who only seems to primaries pods. I tend to take the short route home.

EDIT: Sad Sadface

dankness420
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:46:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: NPC Corp Scout
=
1) Capital Shield Reps cannot cycle under any form of capacitor duress, the activation cost exceeds the value of even the largest cap booster.


Wait people actually fit cap boosters on a cap ship? Are you ****ing stupid?


DTson Gauur
Caldari
Blend.
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.03.21 10:02:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

Crystal implants don't apply to capital shield boosters.

but Slave implants apply to the HP of capital/supercapital ships.

... which is one of the reasons why nobody flies a Hel.


Also decent shield tank will cost you twice as much as comparable armor tank, not to mention there are no deadspace invuls so if you really want to make most of your shield tank it means going officer and that becomes VERY expensive VERY fast...

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.03.21 10:05:00 - [10]
 

Right now shield ships are the FOTM at least in subcap. The maneuverability of shield ships as well as the amount of dps you can push greatly makes up for the lack of EHP. Also since shield RR is alot easier to manage in EvEs current state makes for a win win.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.03.21 11:08:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: dankness420
Originally by: NPC Corp Scout
=
1) Capital Shield Reps cannot cycle under any form of capacitor duress, the activation cost exceeds the value of even the largest cap booster.


Wait people actually fit cap boosters on a cap ship? Are you ****ing stupid?




Cap ship, Cap Booster. I can see how one might be confused.

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.03.21 12:34:00 - [12]
 

All the shield fleets of 0.0 says otherwise?

NAPtrain Pilot
Posted - 2011.03.21 12:58:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Zoloft Rx
Edited by: Zoloft Rx on 21/03/2011 08:32:21
in my experience, implants are for lowsec and higher. In 0.0 fights, my pod always seems to end in some kind of bubble. Theres always someone on the opposing team who only seems to primaries pods. I tend to take the short route home.

EDIT: Sad Sadface



Well, if you're in a supercap that cost 20-80 bil depending on ship and fit, it's not that much to fork another 3 bil for a pretty big increase in EHP.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.21 13:12:00 - [14]
 

The mobility shields provide over armor is nigh useless in BS and above, since the ehp of armor in that class is far better then shields. Also, armor RR is far better then shield RR due to ridiculous CPU use on the shield RR. Armor RR should be given an equivalant increase in PG use to be on par with shield RR.

Praerian
FireStar Inc
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:22:00 - [15]
 

Also in fleets Cap ships get shield bonuses which dont really count as the time taken to recharge everytime the session change is in effect makes the bonus null and void.

Shield recharge rate to fill up that extra amount of buffer applied makes it laughable.

To rectify Shield Caps they would need to

1. nerf the passive recharge rate and let the bonus apply to full shields to give the same advantage as armor tankers.
2. Give us decent implants like the slot 10 armour implant, and a workable crystal set.

One can dream of equal ships.

Hel's need completely reworking, but then again I don't fly minnie.

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: NPC Corp Scout
Back in 2005, the EVE Community declared unanimously that armor tanking ruled the day.

In 2011, the situation remains the same. Why?

1) Capital Shield Reps cannot cycle under any form of capacitor duress, the activation cost exceeds the value of even the largest cap booster.
2) Anything below battleship becomes unacceptably huge when fitted with any type of shield buffer, resulting in a vastly inferior buffer.
3) Fleet members only need to be as fast as the slowest ship, negating any practical penalty from massive armor plates.

If anyone expects to ever see any shield capital fleets, the first thing they need to do is lower capital remote shield cost, OR create a Cap booster sufficient enough to cycle.

As far as #2 and #3, I don't have any good ideas, but changing the shield penalty to something that doesn't affect a capital supported fleet.


I don't get how you can casually write off one penalty, but declare the other is game breaking. Low speed means the other guy can dictate range, and means you're taking more damage.

Armor tanking only rules in sub-cap fights because everyone says armor tanking rules.

Killitt
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:26:00 - [17]
 

Shields gangs are awesome, in small hit and run situations. Thats Why the nano cane/cyna/vaga can be so effective. also ..never underestimate what a group of bassy's can do with a group of maelstroms/drakes/and hurricanes.



Its really only the capitol ships that truly suffer from armor vs shields.

Shadowstomp
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:32:00 - [18]
 

Yeah ... remember most people in EVE blindly follow what others have been able to do, then repeat the mantra.

If you have the right support....shields will beat armor. You can actually see this...shields with sub caps are taking over.

Dramiel...curse/vaga/cynabal/ishtar/tengus/lokis/maelstroms.

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.03.21 16:38:00 - [19]
 

2005 and capitals, rep and EHP, shield and armor, cats and dogs, living together.

MASS HYSTERIA!


 

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