open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: The CSM - What do CCP think of them?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:08:00 - [1]
 

CCP Diagoras shares opinions of the CCP developers on the Council of Stellar Management and its impact on the game. Read all about it here.


Jack Paladin
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:15:00 - [2]
 

First \o/

Charles37
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:15:00 - [3]
 

Go vote!

IBC!

Janos Saal
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:16:00 - [4]
 

That's a whole lotta words saying absolutely nothing.

Salpun
Gallente
Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:18:00 - [5]
 

In before the Big C.

Great Blog
Lets get out the Voting Masses

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:20:00 - [6]
 

IBC, yay.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:21:00 - [7]
 

...

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:24:00 - [8]
 

And what do the CSM members think of the CSM? With two members resigning from CSM 5, and (at least) one candidate for CSM 6 withdrawing in protest, there might be something not entirely perfect (using understatement here, if that wasn't clear).

CCP Diagoras


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.19 19:50:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
And what do the CSM members think of the CSM? With two members resigning from CSM 5, and (at least) one candidate for CSM 6 withdrawing in protest, there might be something not entirely perfect (using understatement here, if that wasn't clear).


The CSM wrote a blog which was published on Monday, in which they discuss the process.

Sarmatiko
Posted - 2011.03.19 20:28:00 - [10]
 

I would like to see "eye-to-eye smoking room version" of this. Pretty sure it is little different.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.19 20:50:00 - [11]
 

All this stakeholder stuff must mean the CSM is pretty important to upcoming Twilight MMO

Darth Vapour
Posted - 2011.03.19 21:40:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
the warp-threads that hold the fabric of EVE together


Do these look like engine trails or the old cyno effect ?

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.19 22:30:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 19/03/2011 22:41:20


Big shout-out to CCP Zulu for proactively engaging CSM5 on so many different topics. Thanks, Zulu! Also much ♥ to CCP Fallout for great communications and support related to the CSM blogs and other community stuff.

Go vote, people! If you're not sure who to vote for, read my latest blog post for some resources to help you figure it out, or use these CSM6 finger puppets (compliments of Virtuozzo's twisted sense of humor) to conduct battles to see who emerges victorious to earn your vote!




Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:12:00 - [14]
 

Off-topic: I'm begining to think that Chribba has to post to every news update, just because if he doesn't, the only thing that will be said is "IBC". Potentially for many pages.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:35:00 - [15]
 

What a load of malarky....

The CSM did no favors to the game based on those December minutes that were published....

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:48:00 - [16]
 

"The CSM performs many useful functions:

* Provides feedback to CCP on upcoming changes to the game and global game issues, often on a daily basis in a private area of the forums.
* Communicates player concerns to the devs, by formatting proposals for changes to the game, adding and maintaining pages for them on the EVE wiki, and voting to add them to the CSM Backlog.
* Travels to Iceland at least twice a year for concentrated 3-day summit meetings at CCP for in-depth face-to-face discussions of important game issues.
* Publishes comprehensive Summit Minutes detailing the results of the meetings.
* As a stakeholder, gives CCP a customer perspective on their decisions, asks hard questions, encourages CCP to justify their resource allocations, and, in the famous words of CCP's CEO Hilmar Petursson (aka CCP Hellmar), "calls bull****" on CCP when necessary.

So does the CSM get results? Well, here are a few examples:

* The skill-training queue was a CSM initiative.
* The CSM helped the players give CCP a corporation-wide wake-up call in the summer of 2010, resulting in CCP allocating more resources to supporting and improving old content.
* The recent removal of learning skills was implemented almost exactly as the CSM suggested.
* CSM and player pressure about performance issues encouraged CCP to create a special group, Team Gridlock, dedicated to the "War on Lag".
* CSM crowdsourcing and prioritization efforts resulted in many CSM-sponsored game fixes being released in Incursion, and the allocation of Team BFF to the task of "fixing potholes" during the current development cycle.
* CSM lead the effort to ensure than any micro-transactions added to EVE would be limited to vanity items.
* CSM encouraged CCP to implement staged release plans, as was used in Incursion and will be used with Incarna.
"

So basically its a focus group with delusions of grandeur.

Skill queue.....proposed years before the CSM was implemented on the forums.

Corporate wide wake up call.....yeah how's that working out, what old content has been improved in the last year? (Don't say PI because that was new content...)

War on Lag that's almost laughable, is it like the US War on Drugs where drugs have become ever more prolific, because Lag sure is more prolific today than its been in years...

crowdsourcing and prioritization.....this is set by CCP not the CSM, CCP decides what will or will not be done not the players....

micro transactions.....once allowed they'll creep into everything....so where is the Tornado? or are we waiting for micro transactions for it?

Again folks had complained for years about the huge patches particularly those on slower connections, it never made sense really. Had little to do with the CSM and probably more to do with overwhelming the CCP bandwidth during large deployments. Thus it makes more economic sense to release smaller packages that remain within certain bandwidth restrictions.



Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.20 07:02:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Alain Kinsella on 20/03/2011 07:05:31
Originally by: El'Niaga
So basically its a focus group with delusions of grandeur.


I see it as CCP's answer to hiring an actual Community Manager (which they could have done instead, possibly cheaper too).

Given how badly I see efforts like this crash and burn in other games, I'd consider it at least 'working as intended,' and (tentatively) a success.

Eldaec
Posted - 2011.03.20 10:41:00 - [18]
 

Dear CCP,

Fyi, 'Community Managers', 'Directors of PR', 'Executive Producers' and similar are not 'Developers'.


Galandil
Posted - 2011.03.20 16:55:00 - [19]
 

I like to add, That I took the time to find who I want in CSM. Its really sad that I do this too. The sad reflection is: I take the time to study, and vote for someone in less important democratic position. then I do for an important one.

In other words: I don't vote for the US presidency, or governor of my state. Yet I vote for someone who manages the fantasy world.

...

Yeah I know, I need to get my priorities straight.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.03.20 17:56:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/03/2011 18:02:22
Why this all of a sudden? Is it because the only member of CSM5 who has a lick of sense regarding 0.0 resigning over the atrocious state of customer service (the GM's)?

Look, CCP, we know the CSM is window dressing. Like all "player councils" in MMO's it is designed to give us the ILLUSION of influence in the game's direction. Calling it anything but an illusion is a lie, because if we DID have any influence you guys would quit working on the "Space Dress up Barbie" crap, and on rewriting parts of this game to steal our Dev time in order to make stuff you can reuse for "World of Twilight" and FIX THE DAMN PROBLEMS.

Virtually everything you guys have added to this game in the last 2 years has been released half finished and not received ANY attention or follow up development. Faction warfare? The new Sov system? Rampant unchecked botting? That's just to name 3. Of course we know the "data does not support" that we like having things polished and working versus new broken junk being thrown at us. Of course it doesn't, when the people who collected the data had a vested interest in the answer. Statistics don't lie but liars can make statistics.

Why don't you guys quit TALKING about how important the CSM is and TALKING about what you are going to do and start SHOWING results?

Show me, don't tell me, CCP.

(with apologies to Rush)

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.03.20 17:58:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/03/2011 18:01:12
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/03/2011 18:00:44
Originally by: Alain Kinsella
Edited by: Alain Kinsella on 20/03/2011 07:05:31
Originally by: El'Niaga
So basically its a focus group with delusions of grandeur.


I see it as CCP's answer to hiring an actual Community Manager (which they could have done instead, possibly cheaper too).

Given how badly I see efforts like this crash and burn in other games, I'd consider it at least 'working as intended,' and (tentatively) a success.



Actually it's worse than that, the CSM was CCP's response to the T20 scandal. It was originally going to be a player elected group who's job was to have the ability to make sure that CCP is playing honest with us. Which is a job it has never been asked to do, instead they hire an "internal affairs" person/alleged department which has no transparency and no accountability to anyone. CCP won't even tell us how many employees they have in sov holding alliances. So there is no way to tell if T20 corruption hasn't continued. Certainly no way of proving it to us.

No one even got fired over the T20 incident. Not even T20. But they sure came down hard on the person who did the investigating and collected the proof of the corruption, didn't they? It'd be nice if they were so forceful against macros and ISK RMT'ers wouldn't it?



Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.03.20 18:03:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
All this stakeholder stuff must mean the CSM is pretty important to upcoming Twilight MMO


Don't stakes kill vampires? Or am I thinking of werewolves?

GIGAR
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.20 18:12:00 - [23]
 

I haven't seen a single thing come from the CSM, which people wasn't asking for BEFORE the CSM.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.03.20 21:15:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: GIGAR
I haven't seen a single thing come from the CSM, which people wasn't asking for BEFORE the CSM.


The point is not for 9 of us to come up with new things nobody else came up with before, it's to sift through the stuff that's on the forums, or things people come to us for, separate the wheat from the chafe, go to CCP and say "THIS is what you should to be doing, and THAT is why".

Also, many things the CSM does do not originate from the players, but from CCP. In that case we provide feedback on the things they present to us, make sure they took the impacts they're going to have on players into account, suggest modifications or, in some cases, try to make a point for not including that thing at all (like microtransactions).

It's also a lot easier to have a constructive conversation between CCP and 9 players than on a forum where the vocal minority may weigh too much on the perception.

Tommy Blue
Black Lance
Posted - 2011.03.20 23:10:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/03/2011 18:02:22
Why this all of a sudden? Is it because the only member of CSM5 who has a lick of sense regarding 0.0 resigning over the atrocious state of customer service (the GM's)?

Look, CCP, we know the CSM is window dressing. Like all "player councils" in MMO's it is designed to give us the ILLUSION of influence in the game's direction. Calling it anything but an illusion is a lie, because if we DID have any influence you guys would quit working on the "Space Dress up Barbie" crap, and on rewriting parts of this game to steal our Dev time in order to make stuff you can reuse for "World of Twilight" and FIX THE DAMN PROBLEMS.

Virtually everything you guys have added to this game in the last 2 years has been released half finished and not received ANY attention or follow up development. Faction warfare? The new Sov system? Rampant unchecked botting? That's just to name 3. Of course we know the "data does not support" that we like having things polished and working versus new broken junk being thrown at us. Of course it doesn't, when the people who collected the data had a vested interest in the answer. Statistics don't lie but liars can make statistics.

Why don't you guys quit TALKING about how important the CSM is and TALKING about what you are going to do and start SHOWING results?

Show me, don't tell me, CCP.

(with apologies to Rush)



QFT

d4shing
Posted - 2011.03.20 23:47:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tommy Blue
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/03/2011 18:02:22
Why this all of a sudden? Is it because the only member of CSM5 who has a lick of sense regarding 0.0 resigning over the atrocious state of customer service (the GM's)?

Look, CCP, we know the CSM is window dressing. Like all "player councils" in MMO's it is designed to give us the ILLUSION of influence in the game's direction. Calling it anything but an illusion is a lie, because if we DID have any influence you guys would quit working on the "Space Dress up Barbie" crap, and on rewriting parts of this game to steal our Dev time in order to make stuff you can reuse for "World of Twilight" and FIX THE DAMN PROBLEMS.

Virtually everything you guys have added to this game in the last 2 years has been released half finished and not received ANY attention or follow up development. Faction warfare? The new Sov system? Rampant unchecked botting? That's just to name 3. Of course we know the "data does not support" that we like having things polished and working versus new broken junk being thrown at us. Of course it doesn't, when the people who collected the data had a vested interest in the answer. Statistics don't lie but liars can make statistics.

Why don't you guys quit TALKING about how important the CSM is and TALKING about what you are going to do and start SHOWING results?

Show me, don't tell me, CCP.

(with apologies to Rush)



QFT


+1

I recently canceled another account -- down to just one to train up a few more things, and when that's done, I'll have no reason to maintain a sub unless these important issues get addressed. Massive fights and sovwar battles sound like a lot of fun in theory, but the lag ruins it all. When CCP feels like investing in this game again and producing results, maybe I'll be interested to resub. I used to have 3 accts.

By the way, how come all of these comments are of a neutral-to-positive variety? I'd love to hear what some people at CCP *really* think of the CSM. Surely not everyone there is a fan.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.03.21 00:04:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 21/03/2011 00:09:42
Originally by: GIGAR
I haven't seen a single thing come from the CSM, which people wasn't asking for BEFORE the CSM.


You are absolutely right about this.

Even the vaunted skill queue, (which still isn't what we want, it needs to run much longer) which is the pride of CCP in pointing out CSM influence, had been suggested on these forums practically every day that I observed since I began playing in 9/2007. It was NOT a CSM idea.

Simply put, player councils in MMOs do not matter. They range from the worst kinds (the SOE ones) which only elevate super supporting fanbois to the best, sadly, ours, which elects people whom CCP can choose not to listen to.

CCP, show me proof that our CSM "stakeholders" can stop you from doing, well, anything at all? If our elected are stakeholders, can they stop you from proceeding on "Barbie in Space" and instead fix the problems with the systems you have introduced in the last 2 years? If they can't, they aren't stakeholders of any kind, they are PLACEHOLDERS in your PR department, designed to give us the illusion of influence.

In the end, all MMOs are democratic. Their success or failure is dictated by us deciding to buy it again each month. CCP is particularly vulnerable, and you should note it. **** us off sufficiently and World of Twilight never sees the light of day. Because only profit from EVE makes that possible. This means you need to give us the attention we deserve. We are the engine that powers you. We also could destroy you. I don't think it's in the interest of either side for that to happen.

haav0c
Posted - 2011.03.21 01:46:00 - [28]
 

when will the results be released?

Captian Conrad
Minmatar
Empyrean Warriors
Posted - 2011.03.21 02:09:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: haav0c
when will the results be released?


2-8 weeks.....when the doc gets back to me EmbarassedCrying or Very sad

.....YARRRR!!

Anah Karah
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2011.03.21 07:41:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Anah Karah on 21/03/2011 07:52:12
Funny that AFAIK CSM have pretty much constantly asked for the complete opposite of that which CCP has produced (no new PVZZZZZZ content bla bla i dont want to get into the list)
I'm not talking about fixing lag, that's a long term problem which has the illusion of being addressed.

Looking at new players trying to play an immensely complex game, then after having to try to explain how to play, you have to reteach them how to workaround all the bugs that have been here since the beginning of time and still don't seem to have been addressed. The veterans know how to get around some of them, but that's only because of dealing with them for years already.

Then we get into racial balancing issues that would have a supertanker doing barrelrolls into the stratosphere.

The CSM have tried putting these issues to CCP since the council was introduced, but instead we keep getting more unwanted, unfinished lag inducing content without fixing the issues that have plagued us since undocking in our first rookie ships.

Play the game CCP
If you actually did you'd know these things without having to ask

EDIT: 350,000+ current subscribers X minimum $131.40 USD a year = $45,990,000 USD P/A. I'd like to see your profit margins CCP, maybe the CSM will demand it?
hush hush..... don't want THAT to get out


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only