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blankseplocked Vuk Lau resigns from CSM over poor GM quality + nullsec idiocy
 
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Pherick Sjang
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 10:06:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: "Marconus Orion"
qq everything is so hard for a ****ing ****** like me to understand, o i kno, i'll troll and ***** and whine!


The problem 10 man corps have with getting set up in 0.0 is not mega powerblocks crossing the whole map to crush them. If anyone is crushing them, it's the locals. The real problem though is that the logistics of feasibly holding any amount of territory in nullsec are such that, even if no giant powerblocs or jump bridges existed, it would be nearly impossible without a space-rich, organized group that had reached a certain critical mass size-wise. Such a group could hold 10 systems just as easily as holding one.


TL;DR version: It's too hard because SOV mechanics are too ****ed up and the basic level of logistical organization needed is absurdly high.

Plz learn to troll better.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.20 11:15:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Pherick Sjang
The problem 10 man corps have with getting set up in 0.0 is not mega powerblocks crossing the whole map to crush them. If anyone is crushing them, it's the locals.


If only the locals were not part of the same power block that spans the the other side of the map...

Originally by: Pherick Sjang
The real problem though is that the logistics of feasibly holding any amount of territory in nullsec are such that, even if no giant powerblocs or jump bridges existed, it would be nearly impossible without a space-rich, organized group that had reached a certain critical mass size-wise. Such a group could hold 10 systems just as easily as holding one.


So make improvements in how residents can utilize their own space to survive instead of having to constantly suck on Jita's tit?

Originally by: Pherick Sjang
TL;DR version: It's too hard because SOV mechanics are too ****ed up and the basic level of logistical organization needed is absurdly high.


I agree. The current sov system is ****ed up. If CCP made some improves into local resource gathering in addition to removing titan and POS jump bridges, other things like blockade runners, black ops, jump frieghters and freighter escorts would be more than enough for logistics.

Your problem is you have the mentality of, "Why should I have to put forth effort into logistics when there is Sanctums to be farmed?" on the brain.

Originally by: Pherick Sjang
Plz learn to troll better.


So what improvements to sov could CCP do to improve on say, paying for a sov bill? They could make it fully automated so each month it pays the bill and people don't wake up to no sov at all.

Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:26:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
If only the locals were not part of the same power block that spans the the other side of the map...


Try doing the same thing in, say, delve, querious or period basis. There's probably no JB network there now (that's being used for defensive purposes anyways, I've no idea how the 3 corps still left in IT are using it, if at all), then come back and ***** and moan like the little ***** you are about "power bloc" (not block) that spans "the the" other side of the map.

Originally by: Marconus Orion
So make improvements in how residents can utilize their own space to survive instead of having to constantly suck on Jita's tit?

Tell CCP that. They're the ones that have essentially made it so deklein can't make more than 6 minutes worth of T2 ammo for a full maelstrom fleet (the slowest firing BS in the game), or 2 days worth of ratting ammo (i.e. missiles) pr day, which means we essentially HAVE to suck on Jita's teat (not tit). And that's during peace-time. Imagine doing the same thing during wartime.

Originally by: Marconus Orion
I agree. The current sov system is ****ed up. If CCP made some improves into local resource gathering in addition to removing titan and POS jump bridges, other things like blockade runners, black ops, jump frieghters and freighter escorts would be more than enough for logistics.

What kind of local resource gathering would you propose to make it easy to gather sufficient amount of minerals etc to build up (and maintain) a subcap, capital and supercapital fleet (let alone POSes, POS fuel, non-combat ships, etc etc etc) within a reasonable amount of solar systems?

Keep in mind that with the current game mechanics, 1 neutral/red guy sitting in a solar system, cloaked and possibly even AFK, is enough to completely shut it down for industrial uses.

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Your problem is you have the mentality of, "Why should I have to put forth effort into logistics when there is Sanctums to be farmed?" on the brain.

When was the last time you actually lived in 0.0?

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:34:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Lord Zim
Keep in mind that with the current game mechanics, 1 neutral/red guy sitting in a solar system, cloaked and possibly even AFK, is enough to completely shut it down for industrial uses.


Why is everyone so afraid of the AFK cloaker?

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:36:00 - [95]
 

So what you are saying is if I invaded NC all 55k of their bandwagon wouldnt join in, because theres some pets I would like to kill, would go after RAWR but you guys have yaay and well thats an IWIN button on its own.

The funny thing about the last several comments is the Orion guy brings up pretty valid points that most people criticise the NC for anyway.

You guys are trying to make it easier for yourself just so you can Removed. Navigator more moon goo and make it easier to control more space.

Oh and an alliance doesnt just have to have 5 people manage the logistics, the whole idea of 0.0 is group work not 5 people get the credit for 5000 people :P

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 13:03:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
freighter escorts


Ahaha do you even PvP? How do you suggest I escort a freighter? A 15 man fleet averaging 400 dps will kill a freighter in 30 seconds and they certainly aren't going to shoot the escort first. People regularly drop dreads on jump freighters at bridges just for fun. Perhaps a freighter 'escort' should be 2000 people so that the nodes can't fit any hostiles.

Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 13:20:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Why is everyone so afraid of the AFK cloaker?

Because the AFK cloakers can easily be containing a cyno to hotdrop a ratting carrier/supercarrier, or they can easily provide just enough DPS to supplement rats to kill off your mining or ratting ship. And there's ****-all you can do about them short of ignoring them, which will get you killed.

This isn't rocket science.

Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 13:31:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
So what you are saying is if I invaded NC all 55k of their bandwagon wouldnt join in, because theres some pets I would like to kill, would go after RAWR but you guys have yaay and well thats an IWIN button on its own.

How many ***gots from DC are even close to deploying in force to geminate right now?

Originally by: Kalle Demos
The funny thing about the last several comments is the Orion guy brings up pretty valid points that most people criticise the NC for anyway.

You guys are trying to make it easier for yourself just so you can jew up more moon goo and make it easier to control more space.

I usually don't do this, but I'm having a hard time taking anyone with 42 kills over a 3 year period seriously when it comes to how 0.0 works.

Originally by: Kalle Demos
Oh and an alliance doesnt just have to have 5 people manage the logistics, the whole idea of 0.0 is group work not 5 people get the credit for 5000 people :P

How many, pray tell, do you think are involved in logistics in all of DC, or even goonswarm?

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 13:35:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 20/03/2011 13:37:42

Guys you dont get it owning space in 0.0 is supposed to be awful and tedious and not even slightly fun! You're supposed to spend hours every day escorting freighters around and babysitting miners!

What do you think this is, some kind of game?

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.20 14:46:00 - [100]
 

Why do people in the Northern Coalition keep saying they are in the Deklein Coalition? There is a coalition within a coalition???

Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 14:51:00 - [101]
 

Anyone who makes the serious argument that CCP should "do something to break up power blocs" is an utter moron. People will play with whoever they want to play with. Before alliances existed in-game, corporations worked together. I can't speak for ALL of the current power blocs, but the Northern Coalition and Deklein Coalition are bound together (both within their own members and to each other) by bonds of friendship and mutual spaceship brotherhood. There are no game play mechanics that can dictate who players want to associate with. Never mind that virtually all of the organizational tools to organize and maintain Eve's power blocs are done via third party sites and platforms that CCP can't control.

If you want to "BREAK UP THE NC OH GOD" then YOU'RE going to have to do it. Don't sit on your ass and expect CCP to handle it. Players took down Phoenix Alliance, Ascendant Frontier, Band of Brothers (and all their vassals), and IT Alliance (and all THEIR vassals).

Now let's get back on topic. CCP's GM team needs serious improvement. There are lots of possible causes and possible solutions. Try to come up with some, instead of crying about how the NC is killing Eve.

Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 14:57:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Why do people in the Northern Coalition keep saying they are in the Deklein Coalition? There is a coalition within a coalition???

Is this really your best comeback to my post? Really?

Alty McExpendable
Posted - 2011.03.20 21:29:00 - [103]
 

I think I've subscribed for the last time now...CCP just keeps on astounding me with short-sighted maneuvering and terrible expansions. And grossly terrible forum mods--I can't believe I'm asking for Zymurgist back. Shadow wasn't so bad, either. Confused

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.03.21 06:59:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Kalle Demos on 21/03/2011 07:10:35
Originally by: Devil <something>
"if you want to kill 55k people just do it, all it takes is a few rifters, trust me im a goon"


This thread wasnt even anything todo with KILLING NC, it is todo with mechanics and the fact that Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW because GMs wont give him special treatment.

NC make a campaign to take over CSM focusing on making 0.0 easier, they also announce that the whole 'Controlling CSM' was to protect jump bridges and PUNISH non-sov holding alliances.

Then about two weeks later, Mittani pops up and goes "they are all lying to you", rages about something that makes no sense, flames everyone that isnt him, then *****es like a little girl on k.com

Now he posts this thread which is a little random, trying to get votes but instead everyone is once again against him, minus the sheep

Can you really expect anyone (that isnt brown nosing) to take you guys serious.

Not only that Mittani couldnt even answer questions on the Vote Match and half of his answers were "CCP have a back log" yeh no ****.

We are aware of how to kill NC with the current mechanics, it doesnt take a genius to work out what would happen if everyone aligned and took out NC.

The problem is, the second you guys are dead DRF will replace you, how is that any better than the current situation, the current mechanics promote blobbing and number warfare that makes it impossible todo anything WITHOUT huge numbers THIS is the problem.

Do explain how this is considered good game play?

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:15:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
...Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW...

I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

I think you've stepped over the line here, Kalle. Have you no shame?

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:57:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Kalle Demos
...Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW...

I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

I think you've stepped over the line here, Kalle. Have you no shame?


haha

Funny enough that was only included towards the end, reply felt too normal without it.

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.21 09:28:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Kalle Demos
...Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW...

I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

I think you've stepped over the line here, Kalle. Have you no shame?


haha

Funny enough that was only included towards the end, reply felt too normal without it.


In the TreborLand wife beats you :wink:

When it comes to community dudes - is anyone missing Kieron?

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.21 09:45:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 21/03/2011 10:04:24
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Vuk Lau is a wife-beater?

Why didn't you share this tasty morsel earlier...

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.03.21 10:13:00 - [109]
 

The question still remains, why did Mittani even make this thread?

All it did was make NC look worse than it is (if thats even possible), Mittani look like a inconsistent sociopath (which was obvious) and Vuk Lau like an emotional kid throwing a tantrum (:yaay:).

Im sure this wasnt the plan but with Mittani trying so hard to mimic his predecessors its hard to tell

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:09:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
The problem is, the second you guys are dead DRF will replace you, how is that any better than the current situation, the current mechanics promote blobbing and number warfare that makes it impossible todo anything WITHOUT huge numbers THIS is the problem.


The game mechanics don't promote blobbing - human nature does that all by itself. I don't see CCP being able to change that in any expansion or patch.

Mel Lifera
Gallente
Ambrye Logistics Ltd.
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:59:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
I can't speak for ALL of the current power blocs, but the Northern Coalition and Deklein Coalition are bound together (both within their own members and to each other) by bonds of friendship and mutual spaceship brotherhood.


Jesus, there's some sick people playing this game.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:12:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Mel Lifera
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
I can't speak for ALL of the current power blocs, but the Northern Coalition and Deklein Coalition are bound together (both within their own members and to each other) by bonds of friendship and mutual spaceship brotherhood.


Jesus, there's some sick people playing this game.
No kidding. How’d you like to read the, “mutual spaceship brotherhood”, line right after breakfast. It’s the most important meal of the day and would be a tragedy to lose. Talk about your gag factor.

-Windjammer

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:46:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
The question still remains, why did Mittani even make this thread?

All it did was make NC look worse than it is (if thats even possible), Mittani look like a inconsistent sociopath (which was obvious) and Vuk Lau like an emotional kid throwing a tantrum (:yaay:).

Im sure this wasnt the plan but with Mittani trying so hard to mimic his predecessors its hard to tell


I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM. He expected us to be outraged, at marvel the martyrdom of Vuk taking a stand. Instead all it proved is that one of Mitten's main rolemodels on the CSM and closest allies had a childish tantrum and tried to influence the petitions of his friends.

Cripes.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.21 21:41:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
In the TreborLand wife beats you :wink:

Those of you fortunate enough to meet my wife at FanFest will quickly realize that (a) this is true and (b) she makes it hurt sooo good. Twisted Evil

Mel Lifera
Gallente
Ambrye Logistics Ltd.
Posted - 2011.03.21 21:51:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Last night I resigned as CSM delegate.

One of my main goals was pointing how horrible CCP customer support is. For me this was top priority especially if we take into consideration that EVE is extremely complex, undocumented and bugged product.
Sadly I didnt had support from both the rest of the CSM and from the CCP. CCP is living in their heaven of faulty statistic and biased circlejerk reports.

As some of you know when I raised the issue of INcompetence of GM department
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Competence_of_the_GM_department_ CSM
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1135590
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1137322
and during the meeting I realized how deeply goes the problem of customer support.

Anyway after raising that issue I received plenty of :facepalm: material from customers and from the current and former GMs who were unhappy how things are working. Later on, many of the pilots were contacting me for help with petitions where i even further realized how crappy things are.

I started preparing issue to be raised again, but didnt got any feedback from CCP, just to be surprised with one of the most embarrassing devblogs ever - Devblog about change of the reimbursement policies. I already started boiling, but then this week happened, the week before the Fanfest trip. I had 4 personal petitions (I will not even touch the subject of petitions I am handling for other players because of :facepalm:) in last couple of days, 2 are still unanswered, 1 is escalated and 1 I closed after two GMs copy/pasting answers without even reading what I wrote.

This combined with embarrassing discussion about 0.0 future with main game designers resulted in my decision to resign. I know I have only 2 weeks left, but going on Fanfest and smiling there how CSM is awesome :stakeholders: while I got nothing but crap in the face from CCP will be something I would regret it. Not to mention that I would most likely barely restrain from raping some of them.
*snip*



Tl;dr - CSM member expected to get his way, but didn't get his way and was so distraught over the resulting moral dilemma that he had no choice but to resign two weeks before his term was up.

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.21 22:47:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM. He expected us to be outraged, at marvel the martyrdom of Vuk taking a stand. Instead all it proved is that one of Mitten's main rolemodels on the CSM and closest allies had a childish tantrum and tried to influence the petitions of his friends.


Originally by: The Mittani
They’re lying to you.

All the promises from the CSM candidates, all the ‘issues’ and ‘features’ they’re going to address - it’s all a pack of lies. For years now we have witnessed the same ritual take place in every CSM election. The candidates line up and tell you what they would do if they were given the power to be a game designer. During the first CSM summit CCP made it clear that they aren’t looking for amateur game developers, and on this fact they have never wavered. Yet the candidates have woven the same tapestry of lies for each successive election. They’d remove local, they’d make it harder to suicide gank, they’d protect the interests of the common player (whatever the hell that means), they’d bring ‘real reform’ to CCP.


Quite how you interpreted the above as Mittens asserting "that CCP don't care about CSM" is beyond me.

Vote for me, I have solid reasoning and comprehension skills.

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.03.21 22:56:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: General Windypops on 21/03/2011 22:57:41
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
Originally by: General Windypops
I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM.


Originally by: The Mittani
They’re lying to you.

All the promises from the CSM candidates, all the ‘issues’ and ‘features’ they’re going to address - it’s all a pack of lies. For years now we have witnessed the same ritual take place in every CSM election. The candidates line up and tell you what they would do if they were given the power to be a game designer. During the first CSM summit CCP made it clear that they aren’t looking for amateur game developers, and on this fact they have never wavered. Yet the candidates have woven the same tapestry of lies for each successive election. They’d remove local, they’d make it harder to suicide gank, they’d protect the interests of the common player (whatever the hell that means), they’d bring ‘real reform’ to CCP.


Quite how you interpreted the above as Mittens asserting "that CCP don't care about CSM" is beyond me.

Vote for me, I have solid reasoning and comprehension skills.


Keep working on those "solid reasoning and comprehension skills", kiddo. Rolling Eyes

Originally by: The Mittani
We play their game, we pay their upkeep, we use their features and we suffer from their shortsightedness. For this they give us one resource, the CSM, and they treat it like a mere focus group, not a stakeholder to be respected.


Mel Lifera
Gallente
Ambrye Logistics Ltd.
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:32:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Mel Lifera on 22/03/2011 00:32:58
Mittens' emorage is subtle and sophomoric. Rather like a young student who's just figured out that the Student Council president can't really do anything about lessening the amount of homework or getting better food in the lunchroom, and decides that the Student Council is therefore worthless.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:33:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: General Windypops

Keep working on those "solid reasoning and comprehension skills", kiddo. Rolling Eyes



No, see, in order for an insult about reading skills to have any weight, the person saying it has to not demonstrate their cluelessness in that very comment. Mittens said, correctly, that CCP treats the CSM as a focus group. That doesn't mean that they don't care about them, just that they care about them only as a focus group. This is basic.

Then again, as you're still hunting after a conspiracy theory, maybe that point is lost.

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:35:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM.


The assertion made that you referenced ("They're lying to you") is very much referring to the CSM candidates who are promising all kinds of shiny stuff and new features, not CCP.

Originally by: The Mittani
We play their game, we pay their upkeep, we use their features and we suffer from their shortsightedness. For this they give us one resource, the CSM, and they treat it like a mere focus group, not a stakeholder to be respected.


Mittens asserts that CCP are treating CSM as a focus group not a stakeholder. This is somewhat distinct from asserting that they don't care about it.

Politics are crap, largely because people misinterpret and extrapolate what others say, and then hold them to those misinterpretations/extrapolations, kiddo. Razz

Vote for me - I like to make sure we're all clear on exactly what people do and don't say.


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