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The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:45:00 - [1]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
Last night I resigned as CSM delegate.

One of my main goals was pointing how horrible CCP customer support is. For me this was top priority especially if we take into consideration that EVE is extremely complex, undocumented and bugged product.
Sadly I didnt had support from both the rest of the CSM and from the CCP. CCP is living in their heaven of faulty statistic and biased circlejerk reports.

As some of you know when I raised the issue of INcompetence of GM department
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Competence_of_the_GM_department_ CSM
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1135590
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1137322
and during the meeting I realized how deeply goes the problem of customer support.

Anyway after raising that issue I received plenty of :facepalm: material from customers and from the current and former GMs who were unhappy how things are working. Later on, many of the pilots were contacting me for help with petitions where i even further realized how crappy things are.

I started preparing issue to be raised again, but didnt got any feedback from CCP, just to be surprised with one of the most embarrassing devblogs ever - Devblog about change of the reimbursement policies. I already started boiling, but then this week happened, the week before the Fanfest trip. I had 4 personal petitions (I will not even touch the subject of petitions I am handling for other players because of :facepalm:) in last couple of days, 2 are still unanswered, 1 is escalated and 1 I closed after two GMs copy/pasting answers without even reading what I wrote.

This combined with embarrassing discussion about 0.0 future with main game designers resulted in my decision to resign. I know I have only 2 weeks left, but going on Fanfest and smiling there how CSM is awesome :stakeholders: while I got nothing but crap in the face from CCP will be something I would regret it. Not to mention that I would most likely barely restrain from raping some of them.

I am sad I will not see a lot of players and lot of CCP dudes who I was looking forward to see, but it would be dishonest from me to be part of that. I am really really sorry I failed in fixing/improving customer support. Despite this ending I am proud to say that thanks to us, awesome video made by Blazde and me pursuing the issue CCP at least admitted there is lag and assembled dedicated team to tackle the issue. It would stay nothing but :words: if there wasnt some awesome dudes in CCP like CCP Veritas and CCP Explorer who really dedicated themselves to the issue.


Anyway I dont need to point how important is to have competent 0.0 delegates because if there wasnt me in CSM 4 the closest person who gave **** about lag was Trebor who had some ******ed ideas about fog of war or something...but at least he cared, regardless how clueless he is.


I apologize one more time to everyone who voted for me, but I exhausted all civilized ways of communication with CCP and I already crossed over the line of civil correspondence with them. At the end of the day I am aware that the best way of "talking" with CCP is "crashtheJitanode" way, but even I fully endorse it I would never drag others with me.

I am kinda emo because all the energy and time myself and people around me are putting into this game to make it better place for all of us, but I really didnt had any choice but to stop being part of the show.

Sorry to all dudes who were looking forward to having fun times in Iceland with me along, I am sure you will have great time anyway and we will all meet each other on NC BBQ on summer. Also I need to talk with Elvenlord but I am unsure if we will hold alliance presentation. At the I am sorry if I disappointed all of you who gave me your votes.

RAWR


CSM5 is ending with a bang, given this and the Open Letter re: Incarna drama.

discuss~

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:53:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
discuss~


I wondered what little dramalama ding dong your little block of friends would have planned for this period in the election. Guess we now know :/ How kind of your good buddy to 'resign' just as he's about to stop being a member of the CSM and give you the scoop.

Nice stunt Mittens. All theatrics though.

Tomcat
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:55:00 - [3]
 

Wise words from a person in this game that I respect dearly. You have nothing to apologize for. You gave your time and spirit to this game and tried to change the minds of a game company that is losing focus on what really matters. There is only so much one man can do, and we thank you for your efforts.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:57:00 - [4]
 

Respect vuk for your dedication, and see you around mate.

ps. Sophia Lau best Lau

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:58:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Tomcat
we thank you for your efforts.


Indeed, good of him to fall on his sword to give the NC / Goons campaign a boost.

Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:59:00 - [6]
 

Stop whining, windypops.

Hratli Smirks
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:00:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: Tomcat
we thank you for your efforts.


Indeed, good of him to fall on his sword to give the NC / Goons campaign a boost.




All we had to do was make that logged out Ragnarok not disappear for eight hours and let CCP GMs do the rest



~all too easy~

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:02:00 - [8]
 

More bitter: lemon, or windy?
Hard to tell... will someone volunteer to bite windy and find out?

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:03:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: E man Industries on 18/03/2011 22:06:14
Edited by: E man Industries on 18/03/2011 22:04:26
Maybe it's just me but I only talked to GM's 2x in 2 years. How often are you petitioning that this is a big deal?

They handled both my errors so they where corrected for my next play session. they didn't give me any free isk though.

I also don't see how mittans is a better option for this. More theatrics over minior preseieved slights as big news?

meh.

Tomcat
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:04:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: Tomcat
we thank you for your efforts.


Indeed, good of him to fall on his sword to give the NC / Goons campaign a boost.


At this rate you will be posting in :LimeGreen: in no time.

iP0D
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:05:00 - [11]
 

I wouldn't put this in the category of drama, nor the Incarna open letter Cool I would certainly put it in a category of there being several challenges here, but that is something different.

This is a matter on its own, even if it is part of the general sensitivity of the topic of CS. The 0.0 issue (aside of the unfortunate troll topic of bridges outside of context in the minutes leading to the whole shouting and fear mongering of "omg my bridges") is an important one, but less so in the light of the troll situation and much more so in light of CCP Greyscale's mentions of aiming for macro scale events ... that is going to need careful exchange and translation of viewpoints, and metrics.

The Incarna open letter, I'm sorry, considering CCP's company values and the tasking by CCP's CEO Hilmar I fail to see any drama, on the contrary, it falls perfectly within the scope of constructive pressure management following weeks of collaboration (as we saw on SHC, blogs and other places) and before that the tediousness of communication between CCP, CCP, and CSM on the road of Incarna. We will see what follows, in the mean time it is - in spite of immediate appearances - to see CCP take a road of caution in the introduction of Incarna (yes, beta for, etc etc).

But yes, this is EVE, politics is fun Cool

That being said, it is a shame to see Vuk go. I hope the presentation is still made, would be a shame.


General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:07:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: General Windypops on 18/03/2011 22:10:59
Edited by: General Windypops on 18/03/2011 22:08:44
Originally by: "The Mittani"
I openly announce myself to be an arrogant, and manipulative"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"i'm manipulative"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"me being a rutheless, manipulative bastard"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"being manipulative is a wonderful skill to have"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"my pledge to be manipulative"


Perhaps if Mittani hadn't spent quite so much time in this campaign boasting about his ability to connive and construct drama I might take this latest 'scoop' a little more seriously. As it is, I think it's a pretty shallow, transparent little stunt. Soon to be ex-CSM member storms off a few days before he'd no longer be on the CSM anyway?

You'd have to be pretty simple minded not to see through this choreographed announcement for what it is.

Next week's will be better though, I'm sure. And we've got a whole year of these little faux 'exposes' from Mittens to look forward to.


FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:10:00 - [13]
 

Well, aside from windy's new conspiracy theory, this is a somewhat interesting bit, but:

Originally by: E man Industries
More theatrics over minior preseieved slights as big news?



GM/dev incompetence is a big, big deal. That we're dealing with a corporation that was surprised to learn that there was significant module lag in fleet fights is a bad thing. That the most expensive ships in the game, which require alliance-wide support for their production and use, can be destroyed not through pilot error but by blatantly broken game mechanics where ships stay in system for hours after their pilots log off? that's simply unacceptable.

We deserve a game whose basic features work.

Miz Calculated
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:12:00 - [14]
 

Who's Vuk Lau?


Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:16:00 - [15]
 

Is this about the idiotic "It's not your fault that you lost your (insert supercapital); it's the game's fault; we're still not going to reimburse you" reimbursement policy? Because that's a seriously dumbass policy and it is literally the dumbest way to treat long-time players who work their asses off (or in my case, scam a lot of dudes) to get a supercapital, only to see it wiped out - not because they did anything wrong - but because they desynched after jumping into a system (which can easily happen, even if the system isn't lagged.) It's also the laziest possible way to "deal" with the problem.

So if this is what you're mad about, Vuk, I'm right behind you. If it's something else, then I'm probably still right behind you on it.

Boogaloo
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:19:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Miz Calculated
Who's Vuk Lau?




He's one of Mittani's friends who has 'suddenly' decided that it's wrong that people lose supercaps when logged off at exactly the same time that some of his friends... erm... lost supercaps when logged off. When Mittens and co did it to IT / BoB they thought it was fair game. Suddenly, apparently, it's unacceptable (just before an election).

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:20:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
.

So if this is what you're mad about, Vuk, I'm right behind you. If it's something else, then I'm probably still right behind you on it.



I would be seriously concerned with any Goonie "right behind me" at any time, about anything... YARRRR!!Twisted Evil

Mechaet
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:24:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Mechaet on 18/03/2011 22:24:19
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
.
I would be seriously concerned with any Goonie "right behind me" at any time, about anything... YARRRR!!Twisted Evil


And rightfully so.

Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
.

So if this is what you're mad about, Vuk, I'm right behind you. If it's something else, then I'm probably still right behind you on it.



I would be seriously concerned with any Goonie "right behind me" at any time, about anything... YARRRR!!Twisted Evil


It's okay. I only engage in homorapism on the weekends. Oh, wait. It's Friday. Carry on, then.

Dawn Flare
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:27:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Edited by: General Windypops on 18/03/2011 22:10:59
Edited by: General Windypops on 18/03/2011 22:08:44
Originally by: "The Mittani"
I openly announce myself to be an arrogant, and manipulative"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"i'm manipulative"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"me being a rutheless, manipulative bastard"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"being manipulative is a wonderful skill to have"


Originally by: "The Mittani"
"my pledge to be manipulative"


Perhaps if Mittani hadn't spent quite so much time in this campaign boasting about his ability to connive and construct drama I might take this latest 'scoop' a little more seriously. As it is, I think it's a pretty shallow, transparent little stunt. Soon to be ex-CSM member storms off a few days before he'd no longer be on the CSM anyway?

You'd have to be pretty simple minded not to see through this choreographed announcement for what it is.

Next week's will be better though, I'm sure. And we've got a whole year of these little faux 'exposes' from Mittens to look forward to.




Honest question, isn't being manipulative a good thing, when you get down to it? Even more so, aren't your little posts here even more obviously manipulative?

You are attempting to prey of peoples fear of mind control to implant the suggestions you feel to be right, and you aren't even being subtle about it. At least mittens there put there effort into his propaganda to give an impression other than idiot who is bitter because he finally realized that he sucks at the spin game.

YARRRR!!

Numskull
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:31:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Numskull on 18/03/2011 22:32:53
You have GOT to be kidding me, Mittens. Goons and the NC used that means of killing caps countless times against their enemies when you were at war with us.

And only NOW, when your friends are involved and you use CSM privelege to try to force decisions on petitions, you and Vuk suddenly decide it's 'intolerable'? Vuk storms off giving you the exclusive drama bomb?? If this is the kind of neutrality and balance we can expect when you guys have most of the seats on the CSM then it's a pretty clear indication of how you lot intend to blackmail and manipulate the CSM to your personal advantage.

Guess you let your mask slip, huh, Mittani?

[Edited for spelling]

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:34:00 - [22]
 

Btw i resigned before I lost the titan, and before I even imagined I would lost it. Also if I wanted to manipulate with my resignation I would do it to promote Killer2.

Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:35:00 - [23]
 

Was it too hard to hire an auditor to watch employee conduct in the game and prevent scandals like spawning T2 BPOs? CCP took the cheap, short term solution by banning its employees from playing the game.

iP0D
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:37:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: iP0D on 18/03/2011 22:39:45
Originally by: Numskull

Guess you let your mask slip, huh, Mittani?



Dude Laughing he never wore a mask. Sure he's tried to play "lolpolitics", but he's always been clear on just advocating his own interests and people would be stupid to trust him Laughing

Look at it this way. His enemies got killed by time and grind itself, so now he's got to make his own Aurora 2.0 Laughing

Seriously, what do you expect. Even in scrum some pigs and chickens are less equal than most.


Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:38:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Numskull
Edited by: Numskull on 18/03/2011 22:32:53
You have GOT to be kidding me, Mittens. Goons and the NC used that means of killing caps countless times against their enemies when you were at war with us.

And only NOW, when your friends are involved and you use CSM privelege to try to force decisions on petitions, you and Vuk suddenly decide it's 'intolerable'? Vuk storms off giving you the exclusive drama bomb?? If this is the kind of neutrality and balance we can expect when you guys have most of the seats on the CSM then it's a pretty clear indication of how you lot intend to blackmail and manipulate the CSM to your personal advantage.

Guess you let your mask slip, huh, Mittani?

[Edited for spelling]



Plenty of fights in the game are won by being the first to convince GMs a technique is an exploit. Maybe you should quit whining and start petitioning more.

Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:38:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Devilish Ledoux on 18/03/2011 22:41:34
Originally by: Numskull
Edited by: Numskull on 18/03/2011 22:32:53
You have GOT to be kidding me, Mittens. Goons and the NC used that means of killing caps countless times against their enemies when you were at war with us.



What were we going to do? NOT kill hostile ships because they might be desynched and/or lagged out? What kind of dumbass ehonour crap is that? I lost a supercarrier to an IT fleet because of this, but I sure as hell didn't blame the IT fleet for shooting me up. Seriously, you take the kills that are presented to you. Even IF CCP had a sane and sensible reimbursement policy, and you KNEW that the titan you are about to kill will just get reimbursed, shoot the damned thing anyway. A kill is a kill is a kill. Anyone who tries to scream "HYPOCRITE" over this is a numskull.

Edit: Actually, you make a good point, even if only by accident. Now that we all KNOW that CCP will refuse to reimburse losses caused by this, players have every incentive to exploit Eve's buggy cyno and supercarrier bumping mechanics to destroy their enemies without them even having a chance to fight back. It's just another example to support the theory that CCP is completely unable of thinking through the consequences of their decisions.

Doggsbody
Lame Duck Logistics
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:39:00 - [27]
 

Wow Mittani, bit of an own goal this thread huh?

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:40:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
Last night I resigned as CSM delegate.

Sadly I didnt had support from both the rest of the CSM and from the CCP. CCP is living in their heaven of faulty statistic and biased circlejerk reports.

As some of you know when I raised the issue of INcompetence of GM department
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Competence_of_the_GM_department_ CSM
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1135590
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1137322
and during the meeting I realized how deeply goes the problem of customer support.



For the record, I was with Vuk on that one. And 90% of the conversation about this issue was him and me.
So I don't agree with the "no support from the CSM" bit.

There has been an increase in overall GM quality since that meeting in CSM 3, in no small part due to that discussion.
And while we've all had our share of :facepalm: since, anecdote is not the singular of data (which despite continuous request, we have yet to receive from CCP *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*)...

That being said, I regret Vuk's decision. In the 3 terms I was lucky to work with him, he's been a great asset the vast majority of the time (ie, when he could keep his temper his check, something understandably difficult this last term :p)
This last bit of CSM has been extremely tiresome and frustrating for many delegates, and tempers flared.

Vuk indeed kept pushing for improvements in 0.0, lag fixes, GM improvements and was even a proponent of positive changes in areas that concerned his gameplay less directly. It's safe to say he didn't fail his voters...

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:45:00 - [29]
 

this thread has nothing to do with my csm run (which is pretty much already won, regardless of the chair fight)

you can whine about me and 'conspiracies' all you want though, i'll just enjoy your impotent rage

Lady Spanky
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:57:00 - [30]
 

Fun to see The Mittani backpeddling. Pathetic to see the Goon / NC guy ragequitting because he couldn't use his CSM position to get his ship back.

This is precisely why we need fewer 0.0 alliance reps on the CSM. The fact that Vuk Lau even ADMITS to corruptly trying to influence the outcome of a petition is seriously scary.


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