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Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.14 12:34:00 - [1]
 


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.14 12:53:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 14/03/2011 12:57:44
Meanwhile, in the Slytherin house...

P.S. But yeah, tau > pi !
(twice as much, actually, mwhahaha)

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.03.14 13:07:00 - [3]
 

you know, I actually understood that, in general.


that's actually amazing since i'm miserable at math.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.03.14 13:33:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Akita T
mmmm


The Laws of Physics. She just broke them.

DuffmanPeter
Perpetua Umbra
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.03.14 13:46:00 - [5]
 

Being a mathematician, I find this rather pointless. The more annoying thing is all the dam trig identities!

Also I was distracted by pie. Girl likes to cook!

My opinion:

There are many issues why math is considered so hard. The problem is math is foundation based meaning that math has a secure foundation and then this foundation is built upon. You need algebra to do calculus but knowing calculus without algebra would be a nightmare. The problem is that people get lost in the foundation somewhere along the way and then since the classes never go back, they are essentially screwed. When I tutor mathematics, the problems people have is their algebra or other core concepts suck usually whether it be statistics or calculus. Once they have the algebra, then the concepts start to make sense and then they can move onto them. At least in the cases for who I have tutored. There is even more dealing with social norms of why people suck at math...it goes on forever.

Also if you think math is hard, try real variables or abstract algebra. Then you can bang you head against the wall like I am almost lol.


Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.03.14 14:03:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: DuffmanPeter
Also if you think math is hard, try real variables or abstract algebra. Then you can bang you head against the wall like I am almost lol.


I bang my head on the wall with 11th grade math.



that's just how bad I am at it. I probably need a math course ground up from the 9th grade and up or smth so that I can understand the damn thing.

Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.03.14 16:53:00 - [7]
 

Is pie really that easy to make? Mmmmm.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.14 18:29:00 - [8]
 

Ahh, the ubiquitous 2Pi ... yep.
Used to get sick of seeing it maths.

Down with Pi!!
Tau victor!

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.03.14 20:56:00 - [9]
 

Watched it. Don't get it.

Doesn't solve the radians <-> degrees conversion, which is one issue that was brought up with PI. Actually, you're not supposed to be converting between degrees and radians at all, except perhaps at the end of the equation, and only if you actually intend to use the result for something outside math.

Some of the formulas do get simpler, but tbh I don't really see the point in using TAU (2*PI) instead of just PI.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.03.14 21:19:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Some of the formulas do get simpler, but tbh I don't really see the point in using TAU (2*PI) instead of just PI.


think the problem here is, why using 2Pi for a single unit?

it's a matter of keeping things tidy and clean.

Cpt Placeholder
Posted - 2011.03.14 21:50:00 - [11]
 

Hm, I think I'll have to agree with that girl.
Especially because defining it by radius is more logical than diameter.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.14 21:57:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 14/03/2011 12:57:44
Meanwhile, in the Slytherin house...


well thanks for that Shocked

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.03.14 23:48:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Scorpyn on 15/03/2011 10:58:41
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Scorpyn
Some of the formulas do get simpler, but tbh I don't really see the point in using TAU (2*PI) instead of just PI.


think the problem here is, why using 2Pi for a single unit?

it's a matter of keeping things tidy and clean.

Defining TAU as 2*PI would simplify some formulas, while complicating others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

Personally I'd rather multiply by 2 than divide by 2.


Also, if you don't understand PI, you won't understand 2 * PI.

Edit : If you don't like 2 * PI, then instead of 2 * PI * r, simply use PI * d.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.03.15 22:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Edited by: Scorpyn on 15/03/2011 10:58:41
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Scorpyn
Some of the formulas do get simpler, but tbh I don't really see the point in using TAU (2*PI) instead of just PI.


think the problem here is, why using 2Pi for a single unit?

it's a matter of keeping things tidy and clean.

Defining TAU as 2*PI would simplify some formulas, while complicating others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

Personally I'd rather multiply by 2 than divide by 2.


Also, if you don't understand PI, you won't understand 2 * PI.

Edit : If you don't like 2 * PI, then instead of 2 * PI * r, simply use PI * d.
well yeah. Still, for operations where you use a full circle instead half, Tau is better, for everything else, Pi?

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.03.16 22:31:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
well yeah. Still, for operations where you use a full circle instead half, Tau is better, for everything else, Pi?

You have a circle.

What is easier to measure? The diameter or the radius? In most cases, it's the diameter.

PI is based on the diameter. This simplifies some formulas, because you can re-write them to use the radius instead of the diameter when you need half the diameter.

Of course, you can use the radius instead of the diameter, just use 2r instead. However, using that as a justification to define TAU as 2PI is just silly.

Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.03.16 22:38:00 - [16]
 

awww, now I don't remember trig Sad

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.03.16 23:58:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Grimpak
well yeah. Still, for operations where you use a full circle instead half, Tau is better, for everything else, Pi?

You have a circle.

What is easier to measure? The diameter or the radius? In most cases, it's the diameter.

PI is based on the diameter. This simplifies some formulas, because you can re-write them to use the radius instead of the diameter when you need half the diameter.

Of course, you can use the radius instead of the diameter, just use 2r instead. However, using that as a justification to define TAU as 2PI is just silly.
then I ask for forgiveness about my crass mistakes.

I'm as dumb as a door when it comes to maths, and apparently more dumber than I thought.

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.03.17 00:25:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Scorpyn on 17/03/2011 00:26:03
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Grimpak
well yeah. Still, for operations where you use a full circle instead half, Tau is better, for everything else, Pi?

You have a circle.

What is easier to measure? The diameter or the radius? In most cases, it's the diameter.

PI is based on the diameter. This simplifies some formulas, because you can re-write them to use the radius instead of the diameter when you need half the diameter.

Of course, you can use the radius instead of the diameter, just use 2r instead. However, using that as a justification to define TAU as 2PI is just silly.
then I ask for forgiveness about my crass mistakes.

I'm as dumb as a door when it comes to maths, and apparently more dumber than I thought.

Tbh, I can understand why watching that video makes it seem like TAU = 2PI is a good idea. The problem is that it's bringing up everything that's good about it in a very confusing manner while ignoring everything that's bad about it.

In order to determine whether I'd also consider it to be a good idea or not, I had to check Wikipedia, because I didn't remember all the formulas.

My conclusion is that whoever made that video doesn't understand the pi formulas at all (possibly on purpose), since 2*PI*r doesn't actually refer to 2*PI, it refers to 2*r (aka d). All they did was put the number first to make the formula look better.

Netheranthem
Eve Engineering Finance
Eve Engineering
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:28:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Grimpak
well yeah. Still, for operations where you use a full circle instead half, Tau is better, for everything else, Pi?

You have a circle.

What is easier to measure? The diameter or the radius? In most cases, it's the diameter.

PI is based on the diameter. This simplifies some formulas, because you can re-write them to use the radius instead of the diameter when you need half the diameter.

Of course, you can use the radius instead of the diameter, just use 2r instead. However, using that as a justification to define TAU as 2PI is just silly.


It buuuuurns.
Okay, fair point, but you can't really define Pi that way, more usually you can define it from cos / sin functions that directly have a link with the exp function.
Finding the circumference without Pi or cos/sin is pretty tricky. I don't know if it's really possible.

Oh, and considering anything you'd add to Pi, take some e^(i*Pi) in your pie, cause e isn't going to move a bit.


Originally by: DuffmanPeter
Being a mathematician, I find this rather pointless. The more annoying thing is all the dam trig identities!

Also I was distracted by pie. Girl likes to cook!

My opinion:

There are many issues why math is considered so hard. The problem is math is foundation based meaning that math has a secure foundation and then this foundation is built upon. You need algebra to do calculus but knowing calculus without algebra would be a nightmare. The problem is that people get lost in the foundation somewhere along the way and then since the classes never go back, they are essentially screwed. When I tutor mathematics, the problems people have is their algebra or other core concepts suck usually whether it be statistics or calculus. Once they have the algebra, then the concepts start to make sense and then they can move onto them. At least in the cases for who I have tutored. There is even more dealing with social norms of why people suck at math...it goes on forever.

Also if you think math is hard, try real variables or abstract algebra. Then you can bang you head against the wall like I am almost lol.




Real Variables? Meh.
Topology: sum srs bsns.

I don't know how much math you already did, but if you didn't do Topology already, it will screw with your mental health.

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:44:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Netheranthem
Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Grimpak
well yeah. Still, for operations where you use a full circle instead half, Tau is better, for everything else, Pi?

You have a circle.

What is easier to measure? The diameter or the radius? In most cases, it's the diameter.

PI is based on the diameter. This simplifies some formulas, because you can re-write them to use the radius instead of the diameter when you need half the diameter.

Of course, you can use the radius instead of the diameter, just use 2r instead. However, using that as a justification to define TAU as 2PI is just silly.


It buuuuurns.
Okay, fair point, but you can't really define Pi that way, more usually you can define it from cos / sin functions that directly have a link with the exp function.
Finding the circumference without Pi or cos/sin is pretty tricky. I don't know if it's really possible.

Oh, and considering anything you'd add to Pi, take some e^(i*Pi) in your pie, cause e isn't going to move a bit.


What are you smoking and can I have some?

Netheranthem
Eve Engineering Finance
Eve Engineering
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:03:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Netheranthem
Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Grimpak
well yeah. Still, for operations where you use a full circle instead half, Tau is better, for everything else, Pi?

You have a circle.

What is easier to measure? The diameter or the radius? In most cases, it's the diameter.

PI is based on the diameter. This simplifies some formulas, because you can re-write them to use the radius instead of the diameter when you need half the diameter.

Of course, you can use the radius instead of the diameter, just use 2r instead. However, using that as a justification to define TAU as 2PI is just silly.


It buuuuurns.
Okay, fair point, but you can't really define Pi that way, more usually you can define it from cos / sin functions that directly have a link with the exp function.
Finding the circumference without Pi or cos/sin is pretty tricky. I don't know if it's really possible.

Oh, and considering anything you'd add to Pi, take some e^(i*Pi) in your pie, cause e isn't going to move a bit.


What are you smoking and can I have some?


Sure, it's called differential geometry.

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:51:00 - [22]
 

Ok.

Please explain what's wrong with this definition of pi.

Because you don't seem to make sense.

Ricken
Stargate Command and Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.18 16:19:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Ricken on 18/03/2011 16:20:10
Originally by: DuffmanPeter
I probably need a math course ground up from the 9th grade and up or smth so that I can understand the damn thing.


In case you actually want that, try www.khanacademy.org ( Login -> press "Practice" -> ???)

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.18 17:47:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ricken
In case you actually want that, try www.khanacademy.org ( Login -> press "Practice" -> ???)

Wow, that's one hell of a project. Kudos to the guy. Must have been some pretty heavy-duty work to make them all, there's over 2k vids.
Also, you don't need to login, just go to "watch" and, well, watch the corresponding vids.

Netheranthem
Eve Engineering Finance
Eve Engineering
Posted - 2011.03.18 20:26:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Ok.

Please explain what's wrong with this definition of pi.

Because you don't seem to make sense.


How do you calculate pi with that?
(And I mean with arbitrary precision, just not measuring the length of a circle).

DuffmanPeter
Perpetua Umbra
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:07:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: DuffmanPeter on 18/03/2011 21:14:15
Edited by: DuffmanPeter on 18/03/2011 21:07:48
Originally by: Ricken
Edited by: Ricken on 18/03/2011 16:20:10
Originally by: DuffmanPeter
I probably need a math course ground up from the 9th grade and up or smth so that I can understand the damn thing.


In case you actually want that, try www.khanacademy.org ( Login -> press "Practice" -> ???)


Wow way to misquote me. I understand what she is saying perfectly. I am an applied mathematics major finishing up my undergrad in May... I was arguing that math is foundational from what I have seen in tutoring mathematics.

EDIT: Looks like you meant to quote Grimpak...

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.03.19 00:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Netheranthem
Originally by: Scorpyn
Ok.

Please explain what's wrong with this definition of pi.

Because you don't seem to make sense.

How do you calculate pi with that?
(And I mean with arbitrary precision, just not measuring the length of a circle).

I'd have to relearn a bunch of stuff to be able to do that.


 

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