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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 18:20:00 - [61]
 


Says a lot about a person that a non-directed remark about monkeys gets such a cringingly red-faced defensive rebuttle at random. Carry on!


Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.15 18:21:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Its becoming evident that you wish your candidacy in the CSM elections to be considered entirely separate from your involvement with goonswarm Vile Rat.


Well gosh I would hope every candidate wants this. Every candidate is running on their own strengths/weaknesses.


Quote:

But what I can't allow you to divorce yourself from is the responsibility for past actions that you yourself may or may not have encouraged or been partially responsible for.
You are standing for election with a history of involvement with an organization that I allege DID go too far with the witchhunts and DID specifically lead us to the current situation with an eve development team that lacks critical knowledge and experience with aspects of the game.

I say goonswarm IS responsible in some measure for this and I don't believe you can stand in this election on a majority support of goon votes and claim to not be involved with that past responsibility.


You see if we're just going to throw around personal attacks I don't see how this debate will get any further. Stop fighting fights from years ago and concentrate on coming together to fix this game please. It's clear that the immediate issues that we all face are more important than personal grudges and we should be devoting our time to focusing on how to move this game forward. I'm trying hard to extend an olive branch to you despite in game rivalry because this is going to be required of every CSM delegate should we be honored with the peoples vote. You can't go to the CSM as some guy from Goonswarm, that guy from XdeathX, that one dude from the small empire indy corp, that would be counterproductive. We are all running on the idea that we can make this game a little bit better if we run and if we can't form a cohesive unit to convey your ideas to CCP then our collective voice is weakened.

This is why I reject your attacks and will focus on issues which is what this election should be about.

Quote:

You are more politically adroit than your drooling accomplices in this thread I will grant.



Thank you! I appreciate your support.

Quote:

In the end lets conclude on the agreement that there are certainly many better candidates than you in this election cycle who unfortunately will not be elected because of the organized vote blocks of the NC/goon campaigns.


I feel I would do a good job advocating on the players behalf to get this game fixed. I've made my case and feel comfortable that I can do the job if elected. You feel differently based on your in game conflict with an alliance I'm a part of and you use this viewpoint to tarnish your outlook on anything I could say. This is sad but I understand it. There are many single issue voters out there and I won't be the ideal choice for all of them.

Quote:

You can take pleasure in the fact and add it with a little relish to your history of behaviour in Eve online. I will smile and watch the capering antics of your little helpers on this thread and be assured that nothing much changes in the goonswarm.



Vilerat for csm

Thanks everybody! Be sure to vote early, vote often.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.15 18:36:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
a non-directed remark


Yeah... poor trolling Jade.
I don't think anybody reading along is stupid buy that. Or, if you prefer:
"Geez, someone is an awful troll. Oh, I didn't see you there Jade, what a coincidence!"

Quote:
red-faced defensive rebuttle at random.



I know that you're pretty much left only with fiction, fallacy, fear and failure here, but seriously?
I pointed out, calmly and in one line, that I'm hardly following anybody's marching orders. That was in direct response to your (ahem) 'general comment'.

Then I pointed out that the substance of your argument with Vile Rat is utter garbage and should properly be ignored due to the numerous logical failings that it's built on. Rather than being random, that was in direct response to your argument. It is telling that your only response is to troll with an ad hominem.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 18:44:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Then I pointed out that the substance of your argument with Vile Rat is utter garbage...


Was that after you imagined yourself slaying a mighty-dragon with your +5 sparklesword?

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.15 18:50:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Then I pointed out that the substance of your argument with Vile Rat is utter garbage...


Was that after you imagined yourself slaying a mighty-dragon with your +5 sparklesword?



Roleplaying a space hooker is totally less pathetic than roleplaying a dragon slayer right guys! Guys?

Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.15 18:51:00 - [66]
 

Pretty much agree with the OP. Must say I think large scamming ops like Dynasty are quite impressive.

Griefing and scamming noobs with copy paste contracts, nope, not impressive. Gloating over things like that: being a douche.

Being a sore loser= being a douche.

So cept for the Dynasty dude, yup, the rest of the candidates are douchebags, imho. Smile

There, guess I showed you, huh mittens? Laughing

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 18:53:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Then I pointed out that the substance of your argument with Vile Rat is utter garbage...


Was that after you imagined yourself slaying a mighty-dragon with your +5 sparklesword?



Roleplaying a space hooker is totally less pathetic than roleplaying a dragon slayer right guys! Guys?


You should probably explain that remark little goonie.
I have nothing against dragon-slayers certainly, but I do think patting oneself down for imaginary forum war accomplishments is a bit sad. (apologies if the irony went over your head initially)


Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.15 19:02:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Lord Zim on 15/03/2011 19:03:32
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I hardly think a member of goonswarm should be lecturing anyone about ad hominem attacks.


Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Then I pointed out that the substance of your argument with Vile Rat is utter garbage...


Was that after you imagined yourself slaying a mighty-dragon with your +5 sparklesword?


You're funny.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 19:06:00 - [69]
 


Q) when is ad hominem fallacy not a fallacy?
A) when the "man" is an idiot.


Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.15 19:07:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Q) when is ad hominem fallacy not a fallacy?
A) when the "man" is an idiot.


This makes it even funnier. Keep going.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 19:09:00 - [71]
 


I need some more motivation. At the moment you are boring me.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.15 19:34:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

I need some more motivation. At the moment you are boring me.


Sorry if this thread isn't what you're used to discussing, Jade. Let me help.

"I put on my robe and space-wizard hat."

Better?

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.15 19:52:00 - [73]
 

Ok Jade, as an intelligent guy, surely you should be discrediting Vile Rat's campaign by attacking his policies and opinions rather than demeaning yourself by throwing around the CSM equivalent of racial slurs.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.15 20:50:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Yeep

Roleplaying a space hooker is totally less pathetic than roleplaying a dragon slayer right guys! Guys?


I'm wondering what moist crevice Jade pulled that out from, in any case. It seems he's running from some truly odd playbook. I pointed out, and explained, several fallacies that undermine Jade's argument. His response is a series of ad hominem fallacies, trying to change the subject, etc..

Those reading along might, perhaps, think that Jade knows he's got absolutely no argument and is beaten on both facts and logic, and can only resort to some third-rate trolling and personal insults. Ya know, perhaps.


Originally by: Jade Constantine
imaginary forum war accomplishments



Speaking of how you're trolling, again, here is what I actually said:

Quote:
Anyways, let me point out some of your fallacies to you, yes? There are a few, so I'm not going in any particular order.

1. Fallacy of Begging the Question: You have made an assumption about why things are the way they are in the game, provided no actual proof, and then demanded that someone else 'admit' that your conjecture is gospel truth.

2. ****Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc and Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc: You have used, as the foundation for your assumption, the sequence or co-incidence of certain events, but provided absolutely no proof of a causal relationship. This is similar to the "When they removed school prayer from schools, society went to hell" and "the rise of rap music has mirrored the rise of inner city crime" arguments.

3. Fallacy of Bifurcation. You have crafted a situation where, rather than multiple competing influences both internal and external to CCP, there is only one possibility and the only valid ways to interact with you on the topic are to "admit" that you are completely correct, or be a dishonest nogoodnik.

4. Fallacy of Ignoring Conflicting Evidence: CCP has made changes to the end-game alliance-level content. Some of it, like Dominion, had the express purpose of aiding smaller (e.g. non-Goon) alliances. It not only failed spectacularly, but ushered in an age of megalag that dwarfed the state of play during Apocrypha and is still wildly unpopular. This suggests a reason why CCP might be less than eager to engage in similar changes without over-thinking. Likewise, CCP attempted to end the Dysprosium bottleneck. We saw how well that worked. Again, this suggests why CCP may be less than enthusiastic about making certain changes, or may take too much time. Additionally, the fact that they are working on multiple other projects, including porting WoD's engine to EVE, points to a resource sink. To say nothing of the fact that reworking sov and/or fixing the UI are massive projects and CCP may believe it's a better business decision to alter other facets of the game.



I think the reason you can't address the fallacies in your argument is pretty clear, as is the reason why you're responding with "No, u r dum!"
But surprise me, actually address the substance of your logical failures rather than furiously trying to handwave them away and babbling about dungeons and dragons.

Time Funnel
Posted - 2011.03.15 20:50:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Time Funnel on 15/03/2011 20:53:37
Originally by: Jade Constantine

But Goon candidates (in my experience) tend to be pretty long on forum noise and froth and very short on delivery.



Goons deliver in all areas. A lot of EVE may not like Goons, however it is hard to beat them in planning and execution and player base inertia. Consider your enemy he may be an excellent voice for the players.

Originally by: Jade Constantine

But now we have a pretty damned static and boring 0.0 thats haunted by supercarriers and riddled with jump-bridges for quick logistics and you happen to be in with the current aristocracy there.



Yes the 0.0 mechanics suck. We all know this. We behave this way because we MUST play the game this way to win.

You speak of aristocracy, but I believe that the real aristocracy in this equation is CCP. A lot of very bitter vets are what make up the core of the Cluster-Thing. The CSM is our only legitimate voice and we can make our "house of reprsentatives" stronger in the face of -> CCP Aristocracy <- EVE is a funny game. We play the creators as much as any other faction.

Romo Skywind
Posted - 2011.03.15 21:22:00 - [76]
 

Oh my. My thread has turned into Jade vs. Vile Rat. What to do about this...

*shrugs*


/popcorn.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.03.15 21:26:00 - [77]
 

I dont really see how a scammer is incapable of leading :S, the real reasons you shouldnt vote for Goons is because they want to destroy 0.0 and make it impossible to PvP anymore while punishing anything that ISNT NC, who really cares if they are love to brown nose and scam.

Besides goons arent even good scammers, if anything people should be flaming them for being so bad at scamming.

Also

Originally by: The Mittani
I think the main problem with supercaps is they cant dock, supercarriers should be given more hp and be able to deploy more fighters

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.15 21:45:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
the real reasons you shouldnt vote for Goons is because they want to destroy 0.0 and make it impossible to PvP anymore while punishing anything that ISNT NC


Which is why The Mittani has endorsed DRF candidates, a Pandemic Legion candidate and Seleene.
This is similar to your lie in another thread that the DRF killed "50%" of the NC's caps.
You're so obviously just about trolling the Goons that you can't even bother to put any effort into it and make it good trolling.

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:07:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Romo Skywind
Oh my. My thread has turned into Jade vs. Vile Rat. What to do about this...

Report your thread or the posts, it may get locked then, as it's against the forum rules: "# Off-topic posting is not allowed.
Off-topic posts are not prohibited but should be posted within reason. Excessive off-topic posts that derail a thread may result in the thread being locked.
".Twisted Evil
On topic: Whatever a guy does in character (within EULA boundaries) says nothing, or not a lot, about what he will do out of character. Do you not trust a person in real life because he plays on the terrorist team in some first person shooter?

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:16:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Romo Skywind
Oh my. My thread has turned into Jade vs. Vile Rat. What to do about this...

*shrugs*


/popcorn.


In truth that part is over. Vile Rat understands there is little to be gained from debating the issue I raised. The various bottom-feeders and sycophants posting routine meme nonsense are largely meaningless last word merchants and will sing themselves to sleep in good time.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:18:00 - [81]
 

Gee, you seem to have accidentally missed this twice now.

Quote:
Anyways, let me point out some of your fallacies to you, yes? There are a few, so I'm not going in any particular order.

1. Fallacy of Begging the Question: You have made an assumption about why things are the way they are in the game, provided no actual proof, and then demanded that someone else 'admit' that your conjecture is gospel truth.

2. ****Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc and Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc: You have used, as the foundation for your assumption, the sequence or co-incidence of certain events, but provided absolutely no proof of a causal relationship. This is similar to the "When they removed school prayer from schools, society went to hell" and "the rise of rap music has mirrored the rise of inner city crime" arguments.

3. Fallacy of Bifurcation. You have crafted a situation where, rather than multiple competing influences both internal and external to CCP, there is only one possibility and the only valid ways to interact with you on the topic are to "admit" that you are completely correct, or be a dishonest nogoodnik.

4. Fallacy of Ignoring Conflicting Evidence: CCP has made changes to the end-game alliance-level content. Some of it, like Dominion, had the express purpose of aiding smaller (e.g. non-Goon) alliances. It not only failed spectacularly, but ushered in an age of megalag that dwarfed the state of play during Apocrypha and is still wildly unpopular. This suggests a reason why CCP might be less than eager to engage in similar changes without over-thinking. Likewise, CCP attempted to end the Dysprosium bottleneck. We saw how well that worked. Again, this suggests why CCP may be less than enthusiastic about making certain changes, or may take too much time. Additionally, the fact that they are working on multiple other projects, including porting WoD's engine to EVE, points to a resource sink. To say nothing of the fact that reworking sov and/or fixing the UI are massive projects and CCP may believe it's a better business decision to alter other facets of the game.

I think the reason you can't address the fallacies in your argument is pretty clear, as is the reason why you're responding with "No, u r dum!"
But surprise me, actually address the substance of your logical failures rather than furiously trying to handwave them away and babbling about dungeons and dragons.


You're not going to actually stop trolling, are you?

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:21:00 - [82]
 


I have so little respect for you I can't even be bothered to quote you. Think about that for a moment. It is quite the modern tragedy.



FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:25:00 - [83]
 

Assuming you're following your troll-script, your next response is to pretend that you weren't even talking to me.

Yet again, I've laid out a clear series of labeled and analyzed logical fallacies. They show why your argument fails. You have, instead, refused to answer to the failings in your argument and resorted to blatant trolling.
Like I said, it's very clear why you won't address the logical failings in your argument and why you resort to trolling instead, but I'll keep giving you chances to actually stop trolling and debate the ideas that you claim to want to discuss.

So, again, in case you feel like not trolling:

Quote:
Anyways, let me point out some of your fallacies to you, yes? There are a few, so I'm not going in any particular order.

1. Fallacy of Begging the Question: You have made an assumption about why things are the way they are in the game, provided no actual proof, and then demanded that someone else 'admit' that your conjecture is gospel truth.

2. ****Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc and Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc: You have used, as the foundation for your assumption, the sequence or co-incidence of certain events, but provided absolutely no proof of a causal relationship. This is similar to the "When they removed school prayer from schools, society went to hell" and "the rise of rap music has mirrored the rise of inner city crime" arguments.

3. Fallacy of Bifurcation. You have crafted a situation where, rather than multiple competing influences both internal and external to CCP, there is only one possibility and the only valid ways to interact with you on the topic are to "admit" that you are completely correct, or be a dishonest nogoodnik.

4. Fallacy of Ignoring Conflicting Evidence: CCP has made changes to the end-game alliance-level content. Some of it, like Dominion, had the express purpose of aiding smaller (e.g. non-Goon) alliances. It not only failed spectacularly, but ushered in an age of megalag that dwarfed the state of play during Apocrypha and is still wildly unpopular. This suggests a reason why CCP might be less than eager to engage in similar changes without over-thinking. Likewise, CCP attempted to end the Dysprosium bottleneck. We saw how well that worked. Again, this suggests why CCP may be less than enthusiastic about making certain changes, or may take too much time. Additionally, the fact that they are working on multiple other projects, including porting WoD's engine to EVE, points to a resource sink. To say nothing of the fact that reworking sov and/or fixing the UI are massive projects and CCP may believe it's a better business decision to alter other facets of the game.

I think the reason you can't address the fallacies in your argument is pretty clear, as is the reason why you're responding with "No, u r dum!"
But surprise me, actually address the substance of your logical failures rather than furiously trying to handwave them away and babbling about dungeons and dragons.



Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:27:00 - [84]
 


You do realize that obsessively quoting yourself is a sure sign of e-madness right?

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:30:00 - [85]
 

Any time you'd like to actually discuss the issues rather than prove, again, that you're only interested in trolling:

Quote:

Anyways, let me point out some of your fallacies to you, yes? There are a few, so I'm not going in any particular order.

1. Fallacy of Begging the Question: You have made an assumption about why things are the way they are in the game, provided no actual proof, and then demanded that someone else 'admit' that your conjecture is gospel truth.

2. ****Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc and Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc: You have used, as the foundation for your assumption, the sequence or co-incidence of certain events, but provided absolutely no proof of a causal relationship. This is similar to the "When they removed school prayer from schools, society went to hell" and "the rise of rap music has mirrored the rise of inner city crime" arguments.

3. Fallacy of Bifurcation. You have crafted a situation where, rather than multiple competing influences both internal and external to CCP, there is only one possibility and the only valid ways to interact with you on the topic are to "admit" that you are completely correct, or be a dishonest nogoodnik.

4. Fallacy of Ignoring Conflicting Evidence: CCP has made changes to the end-game alliance-level content. Some of it, like Dominion, had the express purpose of aiding smaller (e.g. non-Goon) alliances. It not only failed spectacularly, but ushered in an age of megalag that dwarfed the state of play during Apocrypha and is still wildly unpopular. This suggests a reason why CCP might be less than eager to engage in similar changes without over-thinking. Likewise, CCP attempted to end the Dysprosium bottleneck. We saw how well that worked. Again, this suggests why CCP may be less than enthusiastic about making certain changes, or may take too much time. Additionally, the fact that they are working on multiple other projects, including porting WoD's engine to EVE, points to a resource sink. To say nothing of the fact that reworking sov and/or fixing the UI are massive projects and CCP may believe it's a better business decision to alter other facets of the game.

I think the reason you can't address the fallacies in your argument is pretty clear, as is the reason why you're responding with "No, u r dum!"
But surprise me, actually address the substance of your logical failures rather than furiously trying to handwave them away and babbling about dungeons and dragons.


Don't worry, those reading along can, I'm sure, figure out exactly why you're totally unable to answer some very clear and explicit criticisms of your argument, and why you can only respond with substandard trolling.
Hint: it's not because you can honestly defend your argument or you honestly made your argument in the first place.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:34:00 - [86]
 


So indulge me.

What would I have to gain from taking you seriously (ie not like a mitten's bloc frothing alt) exactly?


FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:38:00 - [87]
 

Ah yes, resorting to more obvious ad hominem trolling and the truly insane claim that I'm an alt. Again, just in case you want to stop trolling and actually address the argument which (you claim) you honestly made:

Quote:

Anyways, let me point out some of your fallacies to you, yes? There are a few, so I'm not going in any particular order.

1. Fallacy of Begging the Question: You have made an assumption about why things are the way they are in the game, provided no actual proof, and then demanded that someone else 'admit' that your conjecture is gospel truth.

2. ****Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc and Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc: You have used, as the foundation for your assumption, the sequence or co-incidence of certain events, but provided absolutely no proof of a causal relationship. This is similar to the "When they removed school prayer from schools, society went to hell" and "the rise of rap music has mirrored the rise of inner city crime" arguments.

3. Fallacy of Bifurcation. You have crafted a situation where, rather than multiple competing influences both internal and external to CCP, there is only one possibility and the only valid ways to interact with you on the topic are to "admit" that you are completely correct, or be a dishonest nogoodnik.

4. Fallacy of Ignoring Conflicting Evidence: CCP has made changes to the end-game alliance-level content. Some of it, like Dominion, had the express purpose of aiding smaller (e.g. non-Goon) alliances. It not only failed spectacularly, but ushered in an age of megalag that dwarfed the state of play during Apocrypha and is still wildly unpopular. This suggests a reason why CCP might be less than eager to engage in similar changes without over-thinking. Likewise, CCP attempted to end the Dysprosium bottleneck. We saw how well that worked. Again, this suggests why CCP may be less than enthusiastic about making certain changes, or may take too much time. Additionally, the fact that they are working on multiple other projects, including porting WoD's engine to EVE, points to a resource sink. To say nothing of the fact that reworking sov and/or fixing the UI are massive projects and CCP may believe it's a better business decision to alter other facets of the game.

I think the reason you can't address the fallacies in your argument is pretty clear, as is the reason why you're responding with "No, u r dum!"
But surprise me, actually address the substance of your logical failures rather than furiously trying to handwave them away and babbling about dungeons and dragons.


Don't worry. Those reading along can see you refuse to answer very simple, well elaborated criticisms of your argument, and see you respond with ad hominems and trolling time and again. And again. And again. Folks can generally realize exactly why it is that someone is afraid to defend their own argument and why they'll do their best to avoid honest discussion.

Any time now, if you'd like to stop trolling.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:40:00 - [88]
 

Finn, your over use of the word trolling is getting quite annoying, you have branded everyone that isnt in NC as a troll.

Interesting thread, always good to see JC putting others in their place, pretty inspiring tbh keep up the great work <3

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:40:00 - [89]
 


is this some variation of local copy paste spam now?


EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:46:00 - [90]
 

This thread is terrible and I've read Digi posts.


Damn.


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