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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.03.11 09:54:00 - [31]
 

That's what I really dislike about democracy: you have to pick the least bad option.

I used the matching tool (great work Dierdra Vaal!!!) and the best candidate had 67% agreement - but also a few things I really disagree with. Too bad we can't just vote for the ideas and let them sort out who can best represent those. This way the CSM still doesn't really represent what their voters actually want.

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.03.11 10:14:00 - [32]
 

I voted for Krutoj :)

Sarmatiko
Posted - 2011.03.11 10:24:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Kezbet
I split my votes between the two main Goonie candidates--Mittani and Vile Rat. Goons always seem to be having fun in Eve so they must be doing something right.

^ this
Really CSM is a joke. But at least this guys not making serious facesugh

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 10:57:00 - [34]
 

Probably gonna share beteen seleene, sok and either that long winded douchebag or vile rat. *shrugs*

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:01:00 - [35]
 

I gave my voice to sokratez like did on previous year and a year before that, unless I'm mistaken.
According to voting tool we have 61% matching opinions so seems I've voted the right guy all these years. Cool

Ankh
Minmatar
Angel Constellation
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:02:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Whomever is the most Ankh like.

Nothing like griefing the CSM


Please be specific when referring to other characters. I have been playing the game with this char since 2003 and have never griefed the CSM.

Anne Arqui
Minmatar
Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:03:00 - [37]
 

I vote for the one who's emphasizing Incarna options.
Haven't found out yet who that is ..

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:14:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 11/03/2011 11:17:56
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
I used the matching tool (great work Dierdra Vaal!!!) and the best candidate had 67% agreement - but also a few things I really disagree with. Too bad we can't just vote for the ideas and let them sort out who can best represent those. This way the CSM still doesn't really represent what their voters actually want.


Let's see... using that...
* best match (Issler Dainze) had 66% match, but had diametrically opposite views on the issues of T2 BPOs and suicide-ganking, which made it a deal breaker due to reasons of being too incult EVE-economy-wise to be elected for my taste
* Arden Elenduil (64%) had pretty much zero interest in the industrial side of EVE and also had the same "wrong" position towards T2 BPOs, so no go
* Jonathon Silence (62%) does not have quite the completely wrong idea about T2 BPOs, but he misguidedly wants to make new ones available, not to speak of also wanting more NPC slots and nostalgicking about the good ole days of dyspro/prom (as if tech isn't getting there anyway), which means he's a bit too naive and certainly not pragmatic enough for my taste
* Ripard Teg (61%) looks like a decent match on paper, but again, the T2 BPO opinion is a deal breaker (plus a few other minor annoyances not worth mentioning)... otherwise it could have been nearly a match
* Serious Internet Politician (60%), same T2 BPO deal breaker, microtransaction paranoia, rest not worth mentioning, no thanks
* Straight Hustlin (60%) doesn't want any industry focus, doesn't want lowsec looked at with high priority, doesn't care about the UI being all crabby and non-tweaky... the least bad choice so far. Still, not really wanting to go with this guy, it just doesn't feel right.
* Sokratesz (59%)... well, at least he doesn't know what he wants with T2 BPOs, but he knows he doesn't want them as they are, so not quite so bad yet but not very good either... no other major disagreements to speak of (or where disagreements do exist, the position is at least sensibly explained)... but I voted for him in the past, and I didn't feel like I was getting my vote's worth
* Elise Randolph (59%)... well, well, well, what a surprise... disagreements mostly reasonably explained to mitigate my initial dismissal, voting page profile is short, conclusive and promising... well, looks like we have at least ONE potential candidate, but IMO unlikely to get too many votes since they don't have a high enough profile (I could be wrong, but, who knows), so it's quite likely votes would be wasted
* Tarannus (57%) presents similar features to the one above, so I guess that makes TWO potential candidates... but same caveat as above, which is a shame
* Dreipniir (57%) too many unexplained disagreements in areas I care for for my taste, so no
* Seleene (57%) has a few disagreements but in non-vital areas (most sensitively regarding Incarna, which seems to be regarded by Seleene as basically a waste of dev time), so it looks like we have the THIRD good potential candidate... however, it's the FIRST one so far that has a good chance of making it (high enough profile to matter) and the actual experience from working at CCP would be a big plus for dealing with them. My only minor worry is regarding the status of the "breakup" from the quality of EVE dev, would this maybe create unconstructive tension in the dealings? Hopefully not.

Well, I tire of this, even if a lot of potentially decent candidates might exist, there are simply too many of them and again, not very high profile so any votes would most likely be too dispersed to matter in most cases.
For better or worse, this is STILL a popularity contest, and low profile candidates simply start with a huge handicap.
DOESN'T DEMOCRACY SUCK ?
Twisted Evil

...so I guess I'll just go with Seleene

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:21:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Akita T

DOESN'T DEMOCRACY SUCK ?



representative democracy is pretty meh, yeah.

The Old Chap
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:24:00 - [40]
 

Too many candidates saying too much the same thing... either trying to appeal to everyone, or pushing the nullsec alliance agenda which only benefits a minority. My best match was a measly 58% and hasn't even been mentioned in this thread yet!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:26:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 11/03/2011 11:28:15
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Akita T
DOESN'T DEMOCRACY SUCK ?

representative democracy is pretty meh, yeah.

Direct democracy could potentially be even worse thanks to the "most people are stupid" sad reality and the fact the majority vote wins.
Combine that with apathy from the more reasonable crowd plus knee-jerk reactions from the less reasonable one... and you get at worst a recipe for disaster, at best "design by committee".
So democracy sucks, period Twisted Evil

Carola Kessler
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:28:00 - [42]
 

Had read through all the CSM Candidates agendas nothing of them were appeaing to me, to much 0.0 favoritismn, to much Big ally sympathismn, not really any of them cares about newer players their needs and wishes, also to much specialized stuff t2 BPO's and the like not really in my main perspective nor ever may come close to me due to small wallet, so after all nuthin really comes close to my interests.

so summary and reaction was ABSTAINED from vote completely this year o/

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:32:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Direct democracy could potentially be even worse thanks to the "most people are stupid" sad reality and the fact the majority vote wins.
Combine that with apathy from the more reasonable crowd plus knee-jerk reactions from the less reasonable one... and you get at worst a recipe for disaster, at best "design by committee".
So democracy sucks, period Twisted Evil



That's only true for very large voting bases. Democracy is working pretty darn well around here on a small scale. It just gets really bad if you're trying to do it with 80 million people :P

Neamus
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:54:00 - [44]
 

Trebor Daehdoow gets my vote. And not just because he's got a bad back, or threatening to bribe everyone.

Dubious beard, bunny slippers, and a candidate I can actually take seriously ftw.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:59:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Ankh
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Whomever is the most Ankh like.

Nothing like griefing the CSM


Please be specific when referring to other characters. I have been playing the game with this char since 2003 and have never griefed the CSM.


Ah well sorry for the slander Laughing

Ankhtesblahblah, former CSM and former super carebear in space. It was great, a vote for her and you just griefed the entire CSM and the whole process together.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:00:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Not going to vote at all tbh.

Serious Internet Politician
www.seriousinternetpolitician.com
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:27:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Jon Taggart
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 11/03/2011 00:30:28
I originally planned to vote for Serious Internet Politician, as my disagreements with his opinions were minor at best, but I decided to drop support for the candidate as I did more research. Serious Internet Politician was originally T'Amber, who sold his character & account after resigning from CSM5 as First Alternate. The reason behind his decision was his negative opinion toward PLEX for Remap.

I can understand that it might have been a matter of principle to resign, but I'd like a candidate who's in it for the long haul regardless of the issues and opinions of CCP or the other CSM members.

But that's just me. Still on the hunt for alternate candidates. I need to do more research.


It wasn't because of Plex for remap.

I'm voting for Helen Highwater and Meissa, if they weren't so competant I'd vote for myself cause my char is just that much better looking than the all the others.


Mina Banestar
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:30:00 - [48]
 

Vote cast for Seleene, would have voted trebor as well if I had another account.

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.03.11 14:05:00 - [49]
 

Well, in light of all this...

Why do we need to vote for one of these weirdos? Why don't they let us vote on each aspect of the game?

Example: CCP proposes a bunch of ideas toward a gallente/caldari/hybrid fix and we all vote for the best solution.

I think that would work a lot better.

Deane Adama
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:03:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Serious Internet Politician


It wasn't because of Plex for remap.



Care to elaborate?

Pete 0 Bear
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:06:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190


Ankhtesblahblah, former CSM and former super carebear in space. It was great, a vote for her and you just griefed the entire CSM and the whole process together.



You mean the one that leaked EvE NDA information to puzzle pirates and lied about her employment at CCP on her C.V.?

Emmerik
Gallente
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:29:00 - [52]
 

The Mittani and Vile Rat offcource.
Love the way Mittani talks about his idea of how the CSM should be.

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:32:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Joe Skellington on 11/03/2011 15:52:30
15:52:10
Originally by: Mynxee
Edited by: Mynxee on 11/03/2011 01:26:07
My advice if you want a diverse, proactive CSM that has the game's interests at heart and not just a one-trick pony agenda? Vote for a candidate with broad perspective on the game, who will represent players from all walks of life in EVE (not just special interests), who has a strong desire (and ability) to communicate with and engage the community, and who understands what kind of work being an effective CSM delegate involves and will do that work (some of which is boring and tedious).

The three front runners as far as I'm concerned are Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, and Ripard Teg. My reasons are explained here.

I voted for Trebor, then reactivated an account the other day to vote for Seleene. If I had another vote to give, Ripard Teg would most definitely get it. As it is, I am doing my part to help him and the other two get the attention of the community because I feel that all of them are vital to evolving the CSM and continuing to improve the way CSM gets stuff done.

Originally by: Joe Skellington
Virtuozzo gave me a link that made it pretty easy to choose from.


Care to share?




I can't remember :( But I'll ask him when I see him again. I have two other accounts I'm voting with and it seems it will be Seleene.

Edit:
It was Seleene, I recognized the avatar when I voted on my other two accounts.

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:41:00 - [54]
 

voted for serious. The Seleen (spelling?) was a good first choice, but minor disagreements and the fact that i am sure he will get voted in made me pass on voting. Serious agrees with a lot of the issues I have a strong focus on. Internet space cats is win. The polling for interest outside of speakers corner is also a good idea.

Ankh
Minmatar
Angel Constellation
Posted - 2011.03.11 16:04:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Ankh
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Whomever is the most Ankh like.

Nothing like griefing the CSM


Please be specific when referring to other characters. I have been playing the game with this char since 2003 and have never griefed the CSM.


Ah well sorry for the slander Laughing

Ankhtesblahblah, former CSM and former super carebear in space. It was great, a vote for her and you just griefed the entire CSM and the whole process together.



Yeah I know. Never did work out if she was a dipstick or on the genius side of crazy.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.03.11 16:20:00 - [56]
 

I voted for no one, because I believe the CSM is nothing more than a PR thing, and pretty pointless other than stirring up internet drama between elected members as seen with the last one.

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.03.11 16:22:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Ankh
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Ankh
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Whomever is the most Ankh like.

Nothing like griefing the CSM


Please be specific when referring to other characters. I have been playing the game with this char since 2003 and have never griefed the CSM.


Ah well sorry for the slander Laughing

Ankhtesblahblah, former CSM and former super carebear in space. It was great, a vote for her and you just griefed the entire CSM and the whole process together.



Yeah I know. Never did work out if she was a dipstick or on the genius side of crazy.


What happened to her? I never see her log in anymore and her character portrait is blank.

Kireiina
Posted - 2011.03.11 16:40:00 - [58]
 


Mittani... it will generate the most interesting stories and put some pressure on CCP.

I don't think it will change anything, they've got to be in development hell for WoD / Dust, but nothing much can be done about that.

Not Kalle Demos
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2011.03.11 16:43:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 11/03/2011 02:52:11

...

I was pretty disappointed by almost everybody that got elected into the last few CSMs, but then again, that's quite par for the course.
If I remember to, I might vote on the 22nd. No idea who for yet.

Don't really care much anymore, since whoever I endup expressing some votes for EITHER almost never makes it into the CSM, or if they (rarely) do make it in, they turn out to run contrary to (or at least, not significantly interested by) whatever they promised during the election campaign.
Oh, hey, look, ALMOST just like regular elections !

By the way, I ended up considering any representative democracy a pretty much by-default-failed governing system (Linkage), little more than a popularity and chest-thumping contest, with people that want power getting it far more often than those that would deserve to have it (or would know what to do with it), which normally don't even bother running (or if they run, they never get the popular unwashed masses vote), so, screw politics, both IRL and for the CSM.
Then again, it's not like there's any noticeably better governing form around, so, you know, "meh".



As always nicely put, I am surprised you havent ever applied to become CSM

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.03.11 18:47:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 11/03/2011 11:28:15
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Akita T
DOESN'T DEMOCRACY SUCK ?

representative democracy is pretty meh, yeah.

Direct democracy could potentially be even worse thanks to the "most people are stupid" sad reality and the fact the majority vote wins.
Combine that with apathy from the more reasonable crowd plus knee-jerk reactions from the less reasonable one... and you get at worst a recipe for disaster, at best "design by committee".
So democracy sucks, period Twisted Evil



Decision making requires someone taking the time to understand the merits of alternative ways of seeing things from their first gut impressions and an exporation of the nuanced results that could happen from hypothetical reactions.

This sort of analaysis requires reading stuff that people dismiss as "walls of text". In general, people who do seek roles in representitive democracy usually have the patience and the natural curiosity in the theory and mechanics of government to take the time to do this.

Where things go wrong, and often misserably wrong, is the nature of politics where insitutions or individuals in road block roles can use their positional leverage to force others to side with them if those people want to avoid retaliationa by having other things they believe strongly in squelched. Issues of necessity and fear in a given represntatives territory can thus have "butterfly effects" on entirely un-related legislation. From the perspective of families in a district manufacturing a arguably obsolete piece of military equipment.. the upheaval of being forced to move away from aging relatives, or pull kids from schools to move to another area to get a job with lower benefits than the rare union job that would be discontinued with the clousre of the plant, rationally shift the cost/benefit analysis for the representitve of that district. His position as a swing vote elsewhere results in horse trading to get another districts representives district some tax exemption for invetment in coal strip miningn or subsidies of ethanol production to tip the election in a given state to try to keep his party in the majority so he can keep the obsolet weapons manufacturing.

But people not taking the time to understand things by reading walls of text could be even worse.


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