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wolftin21
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.09 19:19:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: wolftin21 on 10/03/2011 05:44:40
If you want my vote Can you please tell em what you are going to do for the black op ships as they are not very useful atm, they need a buff and have been for over a year.so my questions are When are the black ops going to get their jump range boost, When are they going to use less fuel, And most important when are covert cyno going to be allowed to be activated in empire.So if yall can explain to me how are yall going to make this happen because there are more titans than black ops.and i think every black op pilots would agree with me on this make this happen so black op pilot will have more use for the ships than to sit in a station collecting dust.
Thaks
Wolftin21

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.03.09 19:52:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: wolftin21
If you want my vote Can you please tell em what you are going to do for the black op ships as they are not very useful atm, they need a buff and have been for over a year.so my questions are When are the black ops going to get their jump range boost, When are they going to use less fuel, And most important when are covert cyno going to be allowed to be activated in empire.So if yall can explain to me how are yall going to make this happen because there are more titans than black ops.and i think every black op pilots would agree with me on this make this happen so black op pilot will have more use for the ships than to sit in a station collecting dust.
Thaks
Wolftin21


I own a redeemer, and agree that something needs to be done about Black Ops ships. There are a lot of balance issues that CCP has been ignoring, BO ships are one of many. They need to devote some time and effort into making BO ships more useful and used.

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2011.03.09 20:09:00 - [3]
 

That is a ship class that needs luvin to be sure. I think as a CSM I am going to continue support that CCP regularly review and rebalance ships over the course of a year. I'd also ask CCP to be able to clearly describe the intended role of any ship, where it fits, how it works in that role and why its worth what the market expects to sell it for.

We've seen to many ships sit for too long in the "WTF is that thing even good for" or just as bad "that thig is an I win button" state and its time for CCP to commit to taking managing ship roles more seriously.

Issler Dainze

Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.09 20:22:00 - [4]
 

I cry everytime I look at the Widow sitting in my hanger and remember how useful the ship is (i.e. not useful).

This ship class has so much potential but it is all unrealised due to the pre-nerf that has not been removed.

I believe this ship class is on a lot of CSM's agenda's and would expect the next CSM to be bringing it up to CCP (Again I believe), but as to CCP's reaction to it coming round again, well that is with them.

If I get elected I will certainly keep pushing CCP for a satisfactory answer.

debbie harrio
Posted - 2011.03.09 20:31:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: debbie harrio on 09/03/2011 20:32:42

LOL, Black ops ships are used all the time, although I agree that resists and jump range should be slightly boosted, to say they are useless is wrong.

Pick your bridging fleet better, to use them as a solo pwnmobile is wrong, an important part of the fleet for example are blockade runners, to tell the truth with a decent fleet you can move around enemy space with impunity and strike with deadly effects.

I would love to see the two aspects I mentioned buffed slightly but there are far more important things to sort via the CSM.

Vote for Trebor, he is concerned for player led improvements, not power block monopolies.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.09 21:46:00 - [6]
 

I must admit that I am conflicted about Black Ops. This is because I absolutely love the concept of Black Ops ships; I've trained Black Ops to IV even though I've never flown one.

I would love to see Black Ops buffed. And because of the November Prioritization Crowdsourcing, CCP knows you do too -- Black Ops buffing was the 4th most popular item on the entire CSM backlog, and after the CSM filtered the results, it rose to #2!

Amazingly, a huge number of players want a black ops buff, despite the fact that, like me, almost none of them actually fly them. So CCP has been given a strong message -- lots of players will fly them if they get buffed.

Now all that remains is for it to get slotted into the pipeline. Hopefully, we'll hear something soon.

What is the conflict I mentioned at the start? Simple: if CSM gets consulted about possible Black Ops buffery, I would have to be very careful to avoid advocating buffing them too much!


Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:16:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: debbie harrio
Edited by: debbie harrio on 09/03/2011 20:32:42

LOL, Black ops ships are used all the time, although I agree that resists and jump range should be slightly boosted, to say they are useless is wrong.

Pick your bridging fleet better, to use them as a solo pwnmobile is wrong, an important part of the fleet for example are blockade runners, to tell the truth with a decent fleet you can move around enemy space with impunity and strike with deadly effects.

I would love to see the two aspects I mentioned buffed slightly but there are far more important things to sort via the CSM.

Vote for Trebor, he is concerned for player led improvements, not power block monopolies.


Apart from that last part, I completely agree (vote for me instead).

I can't fly Black Ops yet, but I've been in Black Ops gangs (flying both SB and Recon) and they're damn fun. Also been dropped by a Black Ops gang and while I got toasted it was still fun. They are definitely something you can't do properly without a decent sized gang of SBs Recons BlOps (or just half a dozen or so Black Ops ships, but that gets damn pricey and not quite as effective) and support (Cloaky transports) which emphasises the need for cooperative play (I keep harping on about EVE being truly Massively Multiplayer), which to me says that Black Ops ships work for what they are intended - sneaking around behind enemy lines coordinating play with other players.

They should not be a solo ship, they are not designed as such, and they fulfil the role they were designed for pretty well as I see it.

debbie harrio
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:53:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Imigo Montoya


Apart from that last part, I completely agree (vote for me instead).

I can't fly Black Ops yet, but I've been in Black Ops gangs (flying both SB and Recon) and they're damn fun. Also been dropped by a Black Ops gang and while I got toasted it was still fun. They are definitely something you can't do properly without a decent sized gang of SBs Recons BlOps (or just half a dozen or so Black Ops ships, but that gets damn pricey and not quite as effective) and support (Cloaky transports) which emphasises the need for cooperative play (I keep harping on about EVE being truly Massively Multiplayer), which to me says that Black Ops ships work for what they are intended - sneaking around behind enemy lines coordinating play with other players.

They should not be a solo ship, they are not designed as such, and they fulfil the role they were designed for pretty well as I see it.



As your alliance has been the last couple of successful blops drop we have been involved with I admire your support.

Dropping multiple supercarriers onto a few cruiser hulls though tells me that you really don't understand how EVE works.

Following on from that, why on earth would I vote for you?

Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:54:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jonathon Silence
I cry everytime I look at the Widow sitting in my hanger and remember how useful the ship is (i.e. not useful).

This ship class has so much potential but it is all unrealised due to the pre-nerf that has not been removed.

I believe this ship class is on a lot of CSM's agenda's and would expect the next CSM to be bringing it up to CCP (Again I believe), but as to CCP's reaction to it coming round again, well that is with them.

If I get elected I will certainly keep pushing CCP for a satisfactory answer.


I will just clarify a bit. I am not saying the ship 'is completely useless' they have a use, but that use seems to be making covert bridges for Bomber or Blockade runners.

When I hear "Black Ops" I envision ships ships that sneak behind enemy lines and cause chaos and mayhem (maybe not huge damage) but they distrupt people plans, they direvert resources and attention from other areas and this is what I see lacking with the current blackops ships. They have none of the 'flavour' none of the mayhem and chaos they should inspire.

debbie harrio
Posted - 2011.03.09 23:11:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jonathon Silence

I will just clarify a bit. I am not saying the ship 'is completely useless' they have a use, but that use seems to be making covert bridges for Bomber or Blockade runners.

When I hear "Black Ops" I envision ships ships that sneak behind enemy lines and cause chaos and mayhem (maybe not huge damage) but they distrupt people plans, they direvert resources and attention from other areas and this is what I see lacking with the current blackops ships. They have none of the 'flavour' none of the mayhem and chaos they should inspire.



get some better trained corpmates maybe

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:27:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Imigo Montoya on 10/03/2011 00:29:05
Originally by: debbie harrio
As your alliance has been the last couple of successful blops drop we have been involved with I admire your support.

Dropping multiple supercarriers onto a few cruiser hulls though tells me that you really don't understand how EVE works.

Following on from that, why on earth would I vote for you?


ummm, yeah.... err, how do I respond to that...? I don't fly supercarriers, and so have not dropped supercarriers on any hulls, let alone cruiser hulls, regardless of what some of the thousands of others in my alliance may or may not have done. Following on from that, you should vote for me because I have a fairly solid understanding of logic Wink

Seriously though, while I haven't been able to experience all aspects of EVE, particularly those things limited to certain levels of skillpoints (like flying supercarriers), I have delved into every aspect that I can to see what it's like, even if it doesn't particularly interest me (eg mining, PI, spying). Regardless of whether or not I personally enjoy an activity, I will try it because what I do particularly enjoy is analysing game play.

Because of that I have a broad understanding of all aspects of EVE which I look at with a critical (often pedantic, part of being an academic) eye. I really like what CCP have done with this game even if some aspects don't specifically appeal to me because what they have created draws in so many people.

I recognise EVE as being built from the ground up to be a Massively Multiplayer Online game, unlike many which are online, with massive numbers of players all engaged in a singleplayer experience (I'm looking at you WoW). The things that people often gripe about (AFK Cloaking, can flipping, suicide ganking) are mechanics that encourage player cooperation (to defend against in these examples). This to me is what makes EVE special, and I will fight to preserve that.

Amongst many other reasons of course, so just vote for me already!

EDIT: typo

wolftin21
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:37:00 - [12]
 

So What Are the CSM's going to do about this buffer because its the most important issues to 60% of the pvp world esp the black op pilots. If you want to improve the game you have to improve the ships that the eve players want.

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:54:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: wolftin21
So What Are the CSM's going to do about this buffer because its the most important issues to 60% of the pvp world esp the black op pilots. If you want to improve the game you have to improve the ships that the eve players want.


Where did you get that figure of 60%? Also, my experience in software development has confirmed what I learnt doing my degree - what people say they want and what they really want/need are not always the same thing.

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2011.03.10 03:18:00 - [14]
 

There are problems with BlOps, but fuel and range isn't it.
- The fueling issue has been tweaked already, and on top of that you can jump blockade runners (of which tier one can warp cloaked).
- The jump range issue is not something that bothers me at all, considering I'd like EVE to retain some sense of scale and range. Not to mention that the ships can jump ships into cyno jammed systems.

Their problem lies in actual combat effectiveness.
They have less than T1 raw hit points, weaker grids, and for the most part poor damage/tank ratios.
At their very best they are expensive substitutes for their T1 counterparts, only with a cloak and cyno.

Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.10 03:43:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
There are problems with BlOps, but fuel and range isn't it.
- The fueling issue has been tweaked already, and on top of that you can jump blockade runners (of which tier one can warp cloaked).
- The jump range issue is not something that bothers me at all, considering I'd like EVE to retain some sense of scale and range. Not to mention that the ships can jump ships into cyno jammed systems.

Their problem lies in actual combat effectiveness.
They have less than T1 raw hit points, weaker grids, and for the most part poor damage/tank ratios.
At their very best they are expensive substitutes for their T1 counterparts, only with a cloak and cyno.


I agree with Prom here.

The jumping fuel/range thing is a none issue, it is just they are toothless, glass ships at the moment. No I have no objection to a ship being 1 of those things but never both.

Speaking personalyl I would love to see them buffed with more Damage and a damage buff for the first 60-90 seconds after coming out of cloak, but to leave leave them at no more (or only slightly more) effective HP than the Tech 1 ships. Bigger and tougher is not always needed if you have options.

I would love to be in small gangs of these ships that get behind lines and wreck havoc on the opposition's support, but at the moment the firepower and fragility of these ships does not really support it.

Draco Llasa
Thundercats
Posted - 2011.03.10 04:41:00 - [16]
 

Feel free to check out my campaign thread, BO boosts are one of my top items. To be clear... NO csm candidate can promise to get them fixed, buffed, or anything... But I can, as well as others, promise to continue to drive the point that has been made clear in previous csm's and the community for almost 2 years now.

As a BO and BO Bomber pilot I do want to see them used more.

wolftin21
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.10 05:44:00 - [17]
 

Thank You all For posting your thoughts and what you tend to do, However I have now made my vote,this thread is now Closed again thank you.

Wolftin21


 

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