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Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 01:55:00 - [1]
 

So, I was mining in a .6 system (Teonusude) mining, all the sudden my shields were gone and part of my armor (no warning, it was just gone), before I even decided to look what was going on, I warped but didnt get away soon enough and I was not only blown up but I was podded as well.

Now, maybe I misunderstand how Eve works but I thought we were safe from that unless we were in .4 or lower.

And as far as I know, our corp is not at war with anyone (we are just a small mining corp) and no persons had kill rights on me because all I do is mine.

So, what gives? How is this possible?

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:06:00 - [2]
 

You got violenced bro

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:11:00 - [3]
 

Well thank you, I wasnt aware thats what it was called...

Brynhilda
Amarr
Massive PVPness
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:24:00 - [4]
 

Is your corp at war with anyone?

Grumpymunky
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:31:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
Now, maybe I misunderstand how Eve works ...

That part you got right.

Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
... but I thought we were safe from that unless we were in .4 or lower.

That part you got wrong.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:47:00 - [6]
 

Two words: Suicide gank.

Check your combat record losses in character sheet for details.

Hack Harrison
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:55:00 - [7]
 

Easy. You did misunderstand how EvE works. You are not "safe" in high sec. All that is guarenteed is in a 0.5 system or higher, concord will eventually come along and kill the person who went gcc. The higher the sec status, the quicker they get there.
In 0.1-0.4 systems, the station/gate guns will engage, but won't take down a BC/BS that quickly.

<tl;dr> You were suicide ganked

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 03:21:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 03:32:33
Well, I must say that the CCP folks need to take a second look at this as I think this is an exploit of the game mechanics, not that my opinion really matters.

Let me get this straight...

After they ganked me, they were allowed to:

1. Continue to remain in the system and gank other people (they got 3 so far)
2. Dock in a station here in the system
3. Got paid insurance monies for the ships they were blown up in when Concord finally got there?

Really? How does this make any sense?

jimmyjam
Gallente
Sinner Among Saints
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2011.03.09 03:24:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
So, I was mining in a .6 system (Teonusude) mining, all the sudden my shields were gone and part of my armor (no warning, it was just gone), before I even decided to look what was going on, I warped but didnt get away soon enough and I was not only blown up but I was podded as well.

Now, maybe I misunderstand how Eve works but I thought we were safe from that unless we were in .4 or lower.

And as far as I know, our corp is not at war with anyone (we are just a small mining corp) and no persons had kill rights on me because all I do is mine.

So, what gives? How is this possible?

Get back under the bridge you green bassTurdYARRRR!!

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.03.09 03:25:00 - [10]
 

Not an exploit. Its working as intended. You simply don't understand how it works.

hi-sec is not a safe zone. It is merely hi security. As in rl, you are free to do whatever you want. But if you break the law, you will be punished.

An exploit is intnetionally breaking the mechanics to give yourself or allies an unfair advantage, such as the already resolved infinite tracking in magnetar w-space exploit.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 03:36:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 03:39:24
I respectfully disagree.

As with rl, at a minimum, insurance would not pay for your blown up ship you loose when concord gets you.

In rl, you would not be allowed to continue to dock in said station (read or watch any scifi that has stations)

In rl, the police would continue to hunt you down until you paid time for your crime - since you cant do time for criminal activity, a penalty of 'shoot on site' if you are even seen in the same system for an extended period of time should exist.

And why doesnt Concord pod kill?

Per Webster.com

Exploit:

1: to make productive use of : utilize <exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness>

2: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers>

I think number 2 fits perfectly

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.03.09 03:49:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
I respectfully disagree.

As with rl, at a minimum, insurance would not pay for your blown up ship you loose when concord gets you.

In rl, you would not be allowed to continue to dock in said station (read or watch any scifi that has stations)

In rl, the police would continue to hunt you down until you paid time for your crime - since you cant do time for criminal activity, a penalty of 'shoot on site' if you are even seen in the same system for an extended period of time should exist.

And why doesnt Concord pod kill?


General responses: Eve /= rl. SciFi /= rl. Hence the term Science Ficton.

Specific repsonses: I agree that insurance should not pay out if you get CONCORDOKKEN.

Not all crimes require jail time. In the world of paid subscriptions, putting someone in "jail" would defeat the purpose fo paying for play. So jail = canceled/lapsed subs = bad for the bottom line.

If you have aggression, even legal aggression (firing on a war threat for example), you cannot dock or even use a jump gate until 60 seconds after the last use of an offensive module (EWAR included). You can get a global criminal countdown for illegal acts. If you are an outlaw (low security status), you are shoot-on-sight. If your standing with a particular faction is too low and you enter their hi-sec, that faction's navy will appear and shoot you.

CONCORD don't roll that way.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:17:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 04:18:58
The entire point is, if people are podkilling in high sec, there are not enough systems in place to both discourage it and make it difficult to do.

Hell, I looked at the loot with which I was killed with, all of it tech 1 and done with destroyers.

Yes, podkilling should be damn near impossible in high sec.

And the fact that this happened to three other people (by the same group that pk'd me) within a one hour time span.

Yea, this is a problem and it makes Eve really seem like CCP didnt think this thru. Sure, it has alot of depth but the scripting is so bad it cant even deal with an exploit.

It is pretty clear that this is an exploit, you were never intended to kill without provocation in high sec. The whole point of Concord is to discourage that except, strangely, it doesnt.

Grumpymunky
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:25:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Grumpymunky on 09/03/2011 04:31:24
Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
As with rl ...

In rl, ...

In rl, ...

Ummm... GB2RL?

Originally by: jimmyjam
Get back under the bridge you green bassTurdYARRRR!!

Except they really did have a hulk ganked by a fleet of thrashers. So even if it is a troll, they're a moron worthy of our ridicule.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:34:00 - [15]
 

Wait a tick. Eve kill has losses 4u back in 2008, then a nearly 3 year break, followed by a couple newer losses, including this one.

I smell a troll. Or, did you dump a bunch of rl cash into plex, and then trade/sell them for the toon?

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:41:00 - [16]
 

Welcome to Eve.

General Rules you should know.

1. Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose

2. You are only safe in an NPC station. All other areas are unsafe

3. Watch Local and stay aligned to a warp out.

4. Do not trust anyone, not even the nice man who offers to double your ISK.

If you do not wish to follow those rules you are free to shed tears in Local and in the forums where you will be asked 2 questions. these are:

A. Umad?
B. Can I haz ur stuff?

This is Eve. No one cares.Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:46:00 - [17]
 

See, if I did this I wouldn't even get a response. Forum exloit! Shocked

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:52:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 04:52:48
"Wait a tick. Eve kill has losses 4u back in 2008, then a nearly 3 year break, followed by a couple newer losses, including this one.

I smell a troll. Or, did you dump a bunch of rl cash into plex, and then trade/sell them for the toon?"

I know this is hard for your puny brain to figure out, some people dont keep their account active. Yes, I quit playing Eve for awhile and came back.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:57:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 04:58:41
Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 04:57:47
"If you do not wish to follow those rules you are free to shed tears in Local and in the forums where you will be asked 2 questions. these are:

A. Umad?
B. Can I haz ur stuff?

This is Eve. No one cares"

Yea, its pretty sad that being a prick is what gets you ahead in all of these games.

And strangely the devs dont care about exploits (which begs the question, why have Concord in the game in the first place).

I might have a bit more respect if you asked if you could have my stuffs but you people dont even ask. Please, it isnt funny or cute anymore. Jay Leno isnt funny but he does have one little pearl of wisdom you could learn from, never tell the same joke more than 3 times. Read the forums, it might have been funny the first 3 times but after 300, it isnt anymore.

Oh, and just for clarification, I didnt bring up rl. I responded to someone else who did.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 05:01:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Brynhilda
Is your corp at war with anyone?



no

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.03.09 05:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 04:52:48
"Wait a tick. Eve kill has losses 4u back in 2008, then a nearly 3 year break, followed by a couple newer losses, including this one.

I smell a troll. Or, did you dump a bunch of rl cash into plex, and then trade/sell them for the toon?"

I know this is hard for your puny brain to figure out, some people dont keep their account active. Yes, I quit playing Eve for awhile and came back.


Well, when one is using skimpy information, one must make a best guess. But in the 2-3 months of mining you did, (assuming you trained for nothing but a hulk for 30-45 days + the 12 days spent until the second hulk loss made you emoragequit), did you truly learn nothing about aggro rules?

Wait, my bad. Of course you didn't. If you had, you wouldn't be crying about it in C&P. You sure you didn't spend cash for ships? You're always losing your Hulk. But you also always seem to have a new one.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 07:08:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 07:17:27
Originally by: Soldarius
Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 04:52:48
"Wait a tick. Eve kill has losses 4u back in 2008, then a nearly 3 year break, followed by a couple newer losses, including this one.

I smell a troll. Or, did you dump a bunch of rl cash into plex, and then trade/sell them for the toon?"

I know this is hard for your puny brain to figure out, some people dont keep their account active. Yes, I quit playing Eve for awhile and came back.


Well, when one is using skimpy information, one must make a best guess. But in the 2-3 months of mining you did, (assuming you trained for nothing but a hulk for 30-45 days + the 12 days spent until the second hulk loss made you emoragequit), did you truly learn nothing about aggro rules?

Wait, my bad. Of course you didn't. If you had, you wouldn't be crying about it in C&P. You sure you didn't spend cash for ships? You're always losing your Hulk. But you also always seem to have a new one.


"skimpy information"? Actually, Ive been able to fly a Hulk for a long time (since before I left the game). Secondly, this is not the second Hulk I have lost.

And yea, I did spend cash, as in ISK. I have purchased using in game currency every item I have, the implication that I have cheated is ignorant on your part (evidence please? Hunches dont count...)

Speaking of which, if I am 'always losing my Hulk', this cant possibly be my second Hulk as you stated in the first paragraph. Better to keep your mouth shut and let people 'think' you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

And why do you have to make a 'best guess'? At assuming I purchased my account? Really? Have you ever heard of slander (and actually, in this case the legal term would be libel). See, another concept that is probably hard for your pea brain to grasp is that if you are going to make claims, they should be backed up by FACT, not your 'best guess'.

And, where exactly did you get the timeline that it took me 30-45 days + 12 days to loose my second Hulk? Show me that information because that timeline is so inaccurate.

You sir lack the intelligence to debate anything.

Stop trying to justify your stupidity and admit you lack any intelligence or willpower to do anything for yourself.

How about we let CCP ban me if they think I have done something wrong here. For the players, how about you let CCP police the game and stop trying to do it yourself. It quite frankly is none of your business whether an account was sold, someone is using a macro to mine/rat, real world currency was used to purchase in-game items, or whatever other actions you 'think' it is your responsibility to police. It isnt, it is CCP's job, not yours.

Now, back to the topic at hand, I merely was trying to figure out how Eve worked, Im not crying, complaining, rage quitting anything. I merely am mentioning that there is a problem the way I see it with the game mechanics. I learned something tonight, primarily that I cant possibly recommend this game to anyone for the fact that just the act of logging in for the first time could get them podkilled because Concord is so pathetic. It would be total bull**** if I had a friend log in for the very first time and he was podkilled in .9 space because it apparently can happen (yes, I get that it is unlikely but it should simply not be possible).

I admit that I am a bit discouraged with the game at the moment. Fine, who wouldnt be. Put yourself in my position (I know empathy is difficult) and tell me you wouldnt be disappointed.

Savatar Mei
Posted - 2011.03.09 07:24:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Savatar Mei on 09/03/2011 07:24:38
Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin

It quite frankly is none of your business whether an account was sold, someone is using a macro to mine/rat, real world currency was used to purchase in-game items, or whatever other actions you 'think' it is your responsibility to police. It isnt, it is CCP's job, not yours.



bawhahahahahahabaw too rite too rite!!!

@jacquelin, attrition keeps the market going, and keeps eve ticking over. without this the eve economist sez the market would crash, hyper inflation and all that, industry would become next to useless etc etc. so although certain things dont make sense at first glance, they do when dug into a little deeper.

Tejal Charu
Posted - 2011.03.09 07:51:00 - [24]
 

Don't know if serious? This is not an exploit. They lost their ship and blew up yours. They were punished and you have learned the hard way that it's good to put a tank on your hulk, cuz you never know who wants to gank you.

Himmie Joffa
Posted - 2011.03.09 08:08:00 - [25]
 

The op has been around enough to know the games overused catch phrases, enough to have lost several hulks and enough to train up for them and to be able to buy them, but not to understand how high sec works?

Troll is revealed.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 08:12:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tejal Charu
Don't know if serious? This is not an exploit. They lost their ship and blew up yours. They were punished and you have learned the hard way that it's good to put a tank on your hulk, cuz you never know who wants to gank you.


I had a shield booster running. Its high sec so I didnt plan on having suicide gankers because I assumed CCP had dealt with this properly.

Secondly, it doesnt seem right... Im out 200 mil (actually probably closer to 225 mil if you factor the clone and equipment lost) and they are out around 1 mil ISK for their destroyer and because they knew they were going to loose the ship, they probably insured them for max payout so they really arent out much of anything (they were using all tech 1 low end equipment valued at probably around 100k but there were five of them). Plus they werent podded. Hell, lets even say they didnt insure their ship, they lost 1 mil to my 200+ mil and THEY committed the crime... How is this right?

Sorry, I believe this is a flaw in the system.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 08:28:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 08:33:50
Originally by: Himmie Joffa
The op has been around enough to know the games overused catch phrases, enough to have lost several hulks and enough to train up for them and to be able to buy them, but not to understand how high sec works?

Troll is revealed.


Oh, another idiot.

Urban Dictionary says a Troll is:

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

or

One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

This in no way describes this thread.

I didnt post to cause an argument, nor did I attack anyone (in fact, Im the one who has been accused of lets see, purchasing my account and being a troll - Im not that bad looking) until I was accused of some things that have no truth.

I have posted very clear and concise reasons to why I believe their is a problem and I simply (originally) asked how the mechanics of high sec worked such that I was able to be podded.

I am really surprised at the high number of morons who play this game given its complex nature. I admit to not knowing everything about Eve - but your ego's are so big that you are willing to speak lies as if they were truth, try to use facts to twist them into untruths and insult people who are willing to admit they dont know everything about the world.

The beauty is, I have a life outside of Eve so I dont care about knowing everything there is to know. What does that say to the know-it-alls... hmm...

VE3DVY
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.09 08:33:00 - [28]
 

You lost your Hulk because you didn't understand game mechanics. Here's your logic:

1) Suicide ganking is an exploit.
2) Devs should concern themselves with the elimination of exploits.
----
3) Therefore devs should concern themselves with the elimination of suicide ganking.

Premise 1 is simply false. Furthermore, there exists on the order of a thousand bloody threads about it (especially since the recent Hulkageddon, literally a contest between suicide gankers to kill the most industrial pilots).

Premise 1 has been refuted time and time again, and I won't spend anymore time on it except to say two things:

1) Use google or eve search to find the threads discussing suicide ganking.
2) NEVER assume you are safe in Eve. If you are undocked, you are a target. High sec only guarantees that the aggressor will be punished for blowing up your ship, it does not guarantee that your ship will not be blown up.

Jacquelin Ayalin
Posted - 2011.03.09 08:37:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: VE3DVY
You lost your Hulk because you didn't understand game mechanics. Here's your logic:

1) Suicide ganking is an exploit.
2) Devs should concern themselves with the elimination of exploits.
----
3) Therefore devs should concern themselves with the elimination of suicide ganking.

Premise 1 is simply false. Furthermore, there exists on the order of a thousand bloody threads about it (especially since the recent Hulkageddon, literally a contest between suicide gankers to kill the most industrial pilots).

Premise 1 has been refuted time and time again, and I won't spend anymore time on it except to say two things:

1) Use google or eve search to find the threads discussing suicide ganking.
2) NEVER assume you are safe in Eve. If you are undocked, you are a target. High sec only guarantees that the aggressor will be punished for blowing up your ship, it does not guarantee that your ship will not be blown up.


Alright, I will agree to disagree about this being an exploit.

Why do they get insurance payouts for their crimes?

Why is it I end up loosing significantly more than they did even tho they committed the crime?

I still contend there is something wrong with the system.

VE3DVY
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.09 08:38:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
Edited by: Jacquelin Ayalin on 09/03/2011 08:33:50
Originally by: Himmie Joffa


...nor did I attack anyone

...

I am really surprised at the high number of morons who play this game given its complex nature. I admit to not knowing everything about Eve - but your ego's are so big that you are willing to speak lies as if they were truth, try to use facts to twist them into untruths and insult people who are willing to admit they dont know everything about the world.



Internal incoherence.


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