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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:28:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Bumblefck on 20/03/2011 17:48:10
Edited by: Bumblefck on 15/03/2011 23:24:56
Edited by: Bumblefck on 08/03/2011 15:28:28
Hi,

I would like to propose that the way FOF missiles operate be changed slightly. Currently, FOF missiles will target anything and everything, without regard - so, if I warp into a complex or mission site or whatever and hit F1, they will rather uselessly go for the Large collidable structures first.

Nice for some pretty fireworks, but useless otherwise, as I'm sure you will agree.

What I propose is that, somewhere, there be a little options box (much in the same vein as the drones settings tab on the drone bay/overview box) that only becomes available when you load FOF missiles. There, you would hopefully be able to set priorities for the missiles, something like:

Frigs > Cruisers > BS > w/e

I realise that this is a fairly low priority fix but it would make New Eden a slightly better place, imo.

Please support, thanks! Very Happy



e:


Cassus Temon's post -


Quote:
It's really simple actually. FOF missiles should target aggressors only; with no need for removing LCO's or the like. However, the primary issue; is how your ship's computer tells the FoF what is an aggressor. With EWAR on you, what is the system that deals with that? Obviously, there is a target recognition system; as all aggressors are still shown on the HUD, targeting or no. Problem solved. No friendlies, no neutral's; and certainly no misc. structures. Gates for example.


- really focuses on my original idea better than I did, really. Please support, and make FOF missiles actually useful! Very Happy

e2: From Kazuo Ishiguru


Quote:
Also, how about a system for setting the default target for all FoF missiles fired by a fleet? E.g. following the F.C.s target broadcasts, or the closest ships picked out by designated 'fleet target painters'?



A good addition to my proposal. Smile

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:28:00 - [2]
 

Supporting this

Asa Tru
Lonetrek Trade and Industries
Posted - 2011.03.08 19:53:00 - [3]
 

That's kind of the whole point of FOF missiles. They are suppose to be rather useless, and are only good for when you CANT get a target lock, ie against EWAR and the like. They are a very specialized type of missile, with limited use.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.08 21:34:00 - [4]
 

someone just wants to afk missions, so no support for you! (okay I want to afk missions too maybe I will) but I wont

KlintortheDestroyer
Posted - 2011.03.09 17:28:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: KlintortheDestroyer on 09/03/2011 20:03:42
Edited by: KlintortheDestroyer on 09/03/2011 17:28:17
i like this idea and the neg posts have no standing

FOF weapons are not what they are named
they should be renamed Very Bad Bad Missiles that Are No Good ANd Should Be Recalled and Possibly Discontinued./..

also why do Serpents deal 75 dmg and Hydras deal 25 dmg???
shouldn't Heavy missiles deal more than small missiles, while small and fast frigates should be made "faster" and "smaller" to actually dodge the missile completely, not negate the blast dmg into a state of dumb

missions need to be made more complex obviously
small/cruiser ships need buffs (i don't know about anything bigger than a battlecruiser so that doesn't mean buff the drake or buff the apocalypse)

kill 2 pirates, collect reward could be changed to
1) Scan for pirate base with astrometric probes (scanning for ships and wrecks is made easier obviously)
2) Fly to Pirate Base and Investigate (investigating means use the archeology/codebreaker or roid scanner or cargo scanner to search objects... i think ships need more medium slots when we start making realisitic missions)
3) Kill All Hostiles that Attack You
4) Retrieve the Mission thingy and Return to Base
5) Bonus: Mine the roids, salvage the hulls of derelict spacestations/ghost ships, steal the secret blue prints from the Central Computer or other general industrial ways of making moneys (increase the Tech/Industry of your Faction while decreasing the Numbers of the Enemy Pirate Faction)




Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.09 18:28:00 - [6]
 

Trolling comment removed - Adida

I shall deign to give you some more information on my use of them. Until two days ago, I had never used them. I regularly run exploration sites in high/low sec, and as a lot of the ships in these sites are frigs/cruisers/destroyers, the amount of time spent locking them is proportionatly more than say, a level 4 mission. In my trusty Tengu, I decided to experiment to see if the locking time could somehow be negated by loading up Hydra FOFs.

The whole point of my post is that when they do operate (and target ships) they work wonderfully well, and save quite a fair bit of time locking NPCs (even taking into account the lower damage output). However, because more often than not they have a tendency to go for LCSs, the time saving achieved in blasting away the small crap is eliminated when they go for every Bunker, Radar Post or Brothel.

My retort to you, sir, is that you obviously haven't used them or even considered a response beyond a typical troll. Reported.


Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.09 18:29:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
someone just wants to afk missions, so no support for you! (okay I want to afk missions too maybe I will) but I wont


See above. This has nothing to do with missions and all about making an intended weapon system actually viable.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.09 18:31:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: KlintortheDestroyer
Edited by: KlintortheDestroyer on 09/03/2011 17:28:17
i like this idea and the neg posts have no standing

FOF weapons are not what they are named
they should be renamed Very Bad Bad Missiles that Are No Good ANd Should Be Recalled and Possibly Discontinued./..





I think perhaps you went a little off-tangent with the rest of your post but thanks for the support Smile Perhaps you could check the 'support' box, too? Very Happy

GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.09 18:59:00 - [9]
 

fair enough... fof missiles arent what theyre named, theyre if anything FOAE missiles (Foe or anything else)

i would suggest you read up on the subject matter the fof missiles are based around... Identification friend or foe info

fof are a combat system designed to partially defeat ecm, then have never been designed for PvE, the guidance system mechanic targets anything thats not blue (friendly) so yahh it will hit structures!

if you're flying round in a tengu revise ur fit and/or your subsystems to give u that extra mid to fit a sebo, not ***** and moan to change a system thats not designed to do what you specifically want.

this whole thread is a complete cascadefail

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.09 19:24:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
i would suggest you read up on the subject matter the fof missiles are based around...


No, because this is a game and as we know, EVE bears little relation to reality.


Quote:
fof are a combat system designed to partially defeat ecm, then have never been designed for PvE


Says who? Source?

Trolling comment removed - Adida

Quote:
this whole thread is a complete cascadefail


A bit like you, perhaps? Now, why couldn't you have posted something worthwhile initially, instead of making you look like stupid and juvenile. You seem to be somewhat polite and reasonably articulate in your proposal threads - I would expect the same for here.

KlintortheDestroyer
Posted - 2011.03.09 20:03:00 - [11]
 

if their defense is that FOF shouldn't let people fly their drakes into plexes and press the +6 missile group button then perhaps Missions and NPC mobs be made a little stronger... rats have like 50-150-250hp while typical players have almost anywhere from 1000-100000hp (shields/hulls/armorsupgrades included)

stronger rats, harder missions
tougher missions, better reward, buy/make tougher ships

better battle physics could be implemented

artillery deal splash dmg (dmg to nearby ships when bullet hits)
lasers/autocannons effect velocity/maneuverability of ships when wings'propulsion are dmged
railguns have the ability to pierce and pass through multiple ships on a single line of path

missiles can be hacked and retargeted to hit friendlies by scramble fields, be countermeasured(smokeclouded) back to their original launchpoint or far off course, or be intercepted by defender rockets/structures/asteroids/other ships

so infact FOFs could hit Collidable Objects but only when the original "Ship" target flies by them and puts the structure in their path... FOFs don't just whizz off to hit whatever rock or ruin is nearby(which probably is not emenating heat or a spacial distortion)whenever you press the fire button

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.09 21:25:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: KlintortheDestroyer
if their defense is that FOF shouldn't let people fly their drakes into plexes and press the +6 missile group button then perhaps Missions and NPC mobs be made a little stronger... rats have like 50-150-250hp while typical players have almost anywhere from 1000-100000hp (shields/hulls/armorsupgrades included)

stronger rats, harder missions
tougher missions, better reward, buy/make tougher ships

better battle physics could be implemented

artillery deal splash dmg (dmg to nearby ships when bullet hits)
lasers/autocannons effect velocity/maneuverability of ships when wings'propulsion are dmged
railguns have the ability to pierce and pass through multiple ships on a single line of path

missiles can be hacked and retargeted to hit friendlies by scramble fields, be countermeasured(smokeclouded) back to their original launchpoint or far off course, or be intercepted by defender rockets/structures/asteroids/other ships

so infact FOFs could hit Collidable Objects but only when the original "Ship" target flies by them and puts the structure in their path... FOFs don't just whizz off to hit whatever rock or ruin is nearby(which probably is not emenating heat or a spacial distortion)whenever you press the fire button




I agree with some of your ideas, but I think that the gist of your post is beginning to move beyond the realms of this thread. I think you should definitely explore this further though, perhaps with a new proposal? Smile

Your first paragraph certainly bears repeating though. I don't really want to make it possible so that the be all and end all of PVE setups is a Drake or what have you with 6 launchers and uber FOF missiles - not at all! I simply would like to see the ability to somehow prioritise targets for the missiles - FOF missiles have quite a severe damage reduction compared to regular heavy missiles, and seriously think that this is appropriate, and maybe should even be reduced further if the ability to prioritise targets is implemented.

There is some nice discussion here, more please Very Happy

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:23:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Manalapan on 10/03/2011 00:24:01
I would say that is apart of how they go. I use FOF whenever I do 0.0 ratting solo in a Raven. Most of the gangs that come in have a jam capacity so it still makes me a threat. I have gotten quite a few kills that way.

Changing them to be 'smarter' will increase their use as a main pvp missile which is not what should not happen. They fill a unique situation for missile ships that turret based ships can't enjoy. It would be overpowering missile boats to do this.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:11:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Manalapan
Changing them to be 'smarter' will increase their use as a main pvp missile which is not what should not happen. They fill a unique situation for missile ships that turret based ships can't enjoy. It would be overpowering missile boats to do this.



I agree totally, which is why I said earlier that I would support an increased damage nerf should target prioritisation become a reality Very Happy And besides, in my mind it would only be applicable for targetting NPC ships, not player ships.

Cairn Bolete
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:27:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Asa Tru
That's kind of the whole point of FOF missiles. They are suppose to be rather useless, and are only good for when you CANT get a target lock, ie against EWAR and the like. They are a very specialized type of missile, with limited use.


Very true, but in their current form they're useless, you might as well not fire anything at all.

At least remove their ability to target LCO's and the like.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.11 14:18:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Cairn Bolete
Originally by: Asa Tru
That's kind of the whole point of FOF missiles. They are suppose to be rather useless, and are only good for when you CANT get a target lock, ie against EWAR and the like. They are a very specialized type of missile, with limited use.


Very true, but in their current form they're useless, you might as well not fire anything at all.

At least remove their ability to target LCO's and the like.


Another good point. I would in all honesty be happy with this, at a minimum. Would you care to support this proposal, kind sir? Smile

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.11 20:04:00 - [17]
 

A suggestion like that would allow them to effectively be targeted missiles in PVP. I'm a big fan of making FOFs not useless, but I'm not so sure about this particular boost.

-Liang

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.12 00:28:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
A suggestion like that would allow them to effectively be targeted missiles in PVP. I'm a big fan of making FOFs not useless, but I'm not so sure about this particular boost.

-Liang


I would propose that perhaps a further damage reduction might mitigate any advantages gained from this change

KlintortheDestroyer
Posted - 2011.03.12 16:11:00 - [19]
 

idea while i was spamming fofs this morning...

how about make fofs like a smart bomb/or any kind of timer based activated weapon/shield/repair, then while your fof missile bay is loaded and launched it will begin autotargeting local nearby objects (it cannot be scrambled and doens't count to max targets) but this will atleast tell you who you are going to fire your fof at and perhaps the "fof tracking time duration" will make fofs not as potent as just pressing the button

example:
enter plex
spot nearby ships
press fof bay button
fof begins spinning green and tracking 1 or several of the enemy ships (makes tracking sound)
then when it finds a target, the missile launches...
this adds a slight 20 sec delay to instant fof spam (while fof finds soomething to home in on)

a variation of this could be you launch a fof missile instantaneous but it starts with a very low velocity like 50mps and as it homes in on a target it will increase speedc and change directions


Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.03.13 07:09:00 - [20]
 

It's really simple actually. FOF missiles should target aggressors only; with no need for removing LCO's or the like. However, the primary issue; is how your ship's computer tells the FoF what is an aggressor. With EWAR on you, what is the system that deals with that? Obviously, there is a target recognition system; as all aggressors are still shown on the HUD, targeting or no. Problem solved. No friendlies, no neutral's; and certainly no misc. structures. Gates for example.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.15 23:23:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Cassus Temon
It's really simple actually. FOF missiles should target aggressors only; with no need for removing LCO's or the like. However, the primary issue; is how your ship's computer tells the FoF what is an aggressor. With EWAR on you, what is the system that deals with that? Obviously, there is a target recognition system; as all aggressors are still shown on the HUD, targeting or no. Problem solved. No friendlies, no neutral's; and certainly no misc. structures. Gates for example.



I like this, and will add it to the OP as an extension of the original idea. Thanks! Smile

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.03.18 03:44:00 - [22]
 

I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I think something needs to be done, but I don't think the proposal is the best idea.

F.O.F. go for the closest target. This is how you select what you want to hit: orbit it closely.

The problem comes when you can't do that and end up being orbited yourself. Nothing dies because everything is getting hit.

Perhaps just having F.O.F. lock to a single target while the launcher is active?

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.03.18 16:07:00 - [23]
 


Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.19 09:51:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Johnny Lou
Thumbs up



Thanks! Very Happy

Spirulina Laxissima
Minmatar
TotalControl Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.19 10:34:00 - [25]
 

So how about the option to check LCO's, buildings, etc as blue then?
A simple check-mark in the overview settings should suffice.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:57:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Spirulina Laxissima
So how about the option to check LCO's, buildings, etc as blue then?
A simple check-mark in the overview settings should suffice.


That would also fulfill the rebalancing quite nicely. Good idea, thanks! Smile




Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles

Posted - 2011.03.20 13:45:00 - [27]
 

It would be nice if FoFs didn't target members of your own fleet who happen to be flagged for aggression towards another fleet.

Also, how about a system for setting the default target for all FoF missiles fired by a fleet? E.g. following the F.C.s target broadcasts, or the closest ships picked out by designated 'fleet target painters'?

Seamus Donohue
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.20 17:07:00 - [28]
 

Supported in principle. F.O.F. missiles could use some improvement of some sort.

I'm unsure about the present proposal, though.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.20 17:47:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
It would be nice if FoFs didn't target members of your own fleet who happen to be flagged for aggression towards another fleet.


Yeah, that is beyond annoying. lol

Quote:
Also, how about a system for setting the default target for all FoF missiles fired by a fleet? E.g. following the F.C.s target broadcasts, or the closest ships picked out by designated 'fleet target painters'?


That is a good idea! I will add that to the OP, thanks. Smile

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.21 04:35:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
someone just wants to afk missions, so no support for you! (okay I want to afk missions too maybe I will) but I wont


See above. This has nothing to do with missions and all about making an intended weapon system actually viable.


my alt has fof 5 for the reason I stated. they really don't need to be made any better.

although the not shooting fleetmates bit would be cool.


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