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mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.07 21:53:00 - [31]
 

haha, you guys are super dumb releasing a public letter

Weltact
INVICTUS.
Posted - 2011.03.07 21:58:00 - [32]
 

I couldn't care less about Incarna either. Chances are CCP does what it always does and run for the next distraction to talk about on a tradeshow. But Incarna is a cornerstone to the tech framework for WoD, so it's getting a hell of a lot more focus than stuff in the past like FW or such, or so was said last year in Cologne at the GDC convention.

So they will pursue the path. Whether we like it or not. It seems to me to not be a bad thing to watch carefully whether CCP can maintain a balance between spaceships and Incarna. God knows they have a history of kneejerking in one way or the other, but never doing two things right at the same time.

We're not going to get em back to just spaceships. They can't, not after so many years of repeting it everywhere. Moving away from Incarna would be akin to tossing the towel in the ring, which they can't do because that's not awesome. Nor does that give awards.


Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Mynxee
....However, given how crucial Incarna is to the future ....

Our first and most crucial concern is that there is little evidence so far of a roadmap for this feature. We are extremely concerned that development of Incarna, the most significant addition to EVE since Beta, ....
We want to see Incarna fully fleshed-out. How that is done and how the evolution of Incarna is messaged will be key challenges for CCP over the next several expansions. We hope that CCP will view these expressions of concern as useful feedback that will be helpful in properly justifying and measuring the resources being devoted to Incarna.....



I respectfully, disagree with what is said here. For me I really couldn’t care less about incarna. I highly doubt it will be that important for the way I play eve. Moreover, I wish they would just spit it out and go back to spaceships.

I do not want them to spend any more time trying to “flesh out” some as yet unknown game mechanic that we can do in stations. I hope that in this sci fi universe most of the important stuff continues to happen in spaceship battles.

I hope the road map is “once you can *walk in stations* we are done with incarna until we have polished every aspect of the space ship game”

I realize they are going to continue redirect resources to incarna no matter what I or any other player wants. Nonetheless I can still express my view that I wish they would stop neglecting everything else in the game to spend even more time on this prized egg called incarna. Please CCP get back to the spaceship game asap.


Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.03.07 22:52:00 - [33]
 

Signed...

One may hope CCP has prepared some fresh air for the FanFest, but personally I am embracing for the worst scenario.
"You will do stuff here, you know, secret, dark stuff and it will be, hm, err, awesome stuff. Yes, awesome !" All it will be wrapped in some hurp-durp of funny video presentations about nothing.

Offtopic. Have I missed something ? Have there been not only a spoongate, but also a mazziliu-got-touched-in-a bad-place-gate ?

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:00:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Mynxee
....However, given how crucial Incarna is to the future ....

Our first and most crucial concern is that there is little evidence so far of a roadmap for this feature. We are extremely concerned that development of Incarna, the most significant addition to EVE since Beta, ....
We want to see Incarna fully fleshed-out. How that is done and how the evolution of Incarna is messaged will be key challenges for CCP over the next several expansions. We hope that CCP will view these expressions of concern as useful feedback that will be helpful in properly justifying and measuring the resources being devoted to Incarna.....



I respectfully, disagree with what is said here. For me I really couldn’t care less about incarna. I highly doubt it will be that important for the way I play eve. Moreover, I wish they would just spit it out and go back to spaceships.

I do not want them to spend any more time trying to “flesh out” some as yet unknown game mechanic that we can do in stations. I hope that in this sci fi universe most of the important stuff continues to happen in spaceship battles.

I hope the road map is “once you can *walk in stations* we are done with incarna until we have polished every aspect of the space ship game”

I realize they are going to continue redirect resources to incarna no matter what I or any other player wants. Nonetheless I can still express my view that I wish they would stop neglecting everything else in the game to spend even more time on this prized egg called incarna. Please CCP get back to the spaceship game asap.

While I support Mynxee absolutely on the issue of CCP needing to communicate their plans on Incarna gameplay if such plans actually exist - which I seriously doubt, since I think Incarna is just an Alpha/Beta run for those in CCP who hope to make a name for themselves in WoD - I tend to agree with Cearain that, knowing CCP's inability to budge on things they're fixated on, it would be better for them to just get it over with and then ignore it like they do most expansions. I hope that after those people in CCP who are responsible for this mess are done with it and move on to WoD, that the remaining devs will be able to get on with fixing the more pressing issues of the game.

That said, CCP knows full well the consequences of messing up, as they learned at their own cost last year after the June CSM summit, and pushing the players a little bit more towards the cliff of rage is something that is not likey to end well for them or their business. Wink

Bring Stabity
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:39:00 - [35]
 

Incarna is a dumb waste of time in a game with overwhelming gameplay issues that need addressing over an expansion that is 90% cosmetic and won't fix any problems. If only mazzillu realized this then that is really depressing.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:45:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Bring Stabity
Incarna is a dumb waste of time in a game with overwhelming gameplay issues that need addressing over an expansion that is 90% cosmetic and won't fix any problems. If only mazzillu realized this then that is really depressing.


pretty sure what mazz realized is what an NDA is

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:51:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Bring Stabity
Incarna is a dumb waste of time in a game with overwhelming gameplay issues that need addressing over an expansion that is 90% cosmetic and won't fix any problems. If only mazzillu realized this then that is really depressing.


pretty sure what mazz realized is what an NDA is
Except that nothing in the open letter isn't public knowledge and therefore not under NDA, unless the NDA magically means saying nice things about CCP all the time.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:53:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Bring Stabity
Incarna is a dumb waste of time in a game with overwhelming gameplay issues that need addressing over an expansion that is 90% cosmetic and won't fix any problems. If only mazzillu realized this then that is really depressing.


pretty sure what mazz realized is what an NDA is
Except that nothing in the open letter isn't public knowledge and therefore not under NDA, unless the NDA magically means saying nice things about CCP all the time.


let me explain how an NDA works in this circumstance

"**** you, you're out of the running for CSM"

Bring Stabity
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:54:00 - [39]
 

Serious question: What does Incarna offer mothership and titan pilots. As a titan pilot I feel slighted that a whole expansion is being dedicated to "walking in stations" which I can not partake in.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:56:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 08/03/2011 00:00:51
What Bomberlocks just said regarding NDA and the content of the open letter. Besides which, our advocates and much of CCP are already familiar with the content of the letter since they were given a preview weeks ago. No one raised the NDA flag at that time or since.

As far as whether or not Incarna should or shouldn't be something added to EVE, that is water long over the bridge. It is on the books and there's no going back. With that as a given, the CSM's role is to help ensure that it meets players expectations and benefits the game as much as possible--not just in the immediate release but over time. Both of those things are only possible if CCP engages with the CSM and communicates with the players (or lets the CSM do so) in a fact-based and timely manner.

iP0D
Posted - 2011.03.08 00:00:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Bring Stabity
Serious question: What does Incarna offer mothership and titan pilots. As a titan pilot I feel slighted that a whole expansion is being dedicated to "walking in stations" which I can not partake in.


Serious answer: nothing. But, while Incarna has a high potential to be enforced partially or selectively, it is something that solely applies to station environments. Cnsidering there's been mention of special Incarna "nodes" and such, I doubt CCP even considers expanding it to Captain's Quarters inside ships - I could be wrong though.

Not so serious answer: look on the bright side. Being in a supercap will save you plenty of Plexes in not buying pink dresses, tattoes, earrings and hats Cool

Krutoj
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.03.08 00:12:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: mazzilliu
haha, you guys are super dumb releasing a public letter


am still suprised she didnt ask for 2nd term of CSM "just because" in it.

Olivia Ironsides
Posted - 2011.03.08 00:29:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: Bring Stabity
Serious question: What does Incarna offer mothership and titan pilots. As a titan pilot I feel slighted that a whole expansion is being dedicated to "walking in stations" which I can not partake in.


Serious answer: nothing. But, while Incarna has a high potential to be enforced partially or selectively, it is something that solely applies to station environments. Cnsidering there's been mention of special Incarna "nodes" and such, I doubt CCP even considers expanding it to Captain's Quarters inside ships - I could be wrong though.

Not so serious answer: look on the bright side. Being in a supercap will save you plenty of Plexes in not buying pink dresses, tattoes, earrings and hats Cool



so I have to wait 2 years for any chance at content relevant to my playing

sounds like a great game these 1 year development cycles are fantastic! Confused

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.03.08 02:04:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: 4C 4F 5645
While i am worried about the state of development for Incarna i disagree with the CSM on the integration issue: if Incarna is to have any success or relevancy whatsoever it should be fully integrated within EvE and CCP need to have the guts to stick to their guns and not give in to the "never change anything" crowd.

If the feature is compelling enough to attract players (be it as an RP environment or with its own gameplay) then it doesn't require enforced participation. How can a feature be defined as a success if the only option to avoid it is to quit?

Originally by: 4C 4F 5645

I do agree you shouldn't have to run down kilometers of tunnels to dock, undock or switch a ship or fitting.
But that dosen't mean that all station services present and future should be available outside Incarna or that there shouldn't be an Incarna-only economy and Incarna-only gameplay that is relevant and affects the larger picture - including the spaceship game.

I agree that Incarna should have its own gameplay and that it should allow access to the current in hanger features. What it shouldn't be is a total replacement for the hanger environment for those of us who are not interested in walking around when docked. From the information in the CQ blog it seems it will be a total replacement of the hanger environment.

My concern is that CCP are going to take the easy option and not only make Incarna participation required at the docking stage but also provide "flying in space" changing stuff only available in station to further enforce participation (we discussed some of this under NDA). This would make even an "optional" Incarna about as optional as actually fitting modules to your ship - yeah you could do it but why would you ;)

Originally by: 4C 4F 5645
It should be optional in the same sense Wormhole Space is optional. You can opt out, but you also miss out.

I agree here and am quite happy to "miss out" on minigames and walking around if the option was there. Whilst on the subject (and because people have been attacking me for suggesting that Incarna being optional would make sense).

W-space is optional
Planetary interaction is optional (and most people have opted out according to the figures we have)
Mining is optional - you can pay others to do it for you or get minerals elsewhere
Missions are optional - other ways to make money are available
Running a POS is optional
Market trading is optional
Sov is optional - You can live elsewhere
PvP can be optional/avoidable (if you stay awake ;))
etc

But - Incarna participation will be enforced (unless CCP change their mind).


Making Incarna participation optional will not ruin your immersion but making it enforced ruins mine...

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.08 02:04:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Bring Stabity
Incarna is a dumb waste of time in a game with overwhelming gameplay issues that need addressing over an expansion that is 90% cosmetic and won't fix any problems. If only mazzillu realized this then that is really depressing.


pretty sure what mazz realized is what an NDA is
Except that nothing in the open letter isn't public knowledge and therefore not under NDA, unless the NDA magically means saying nice things about CCP all the time.


this has nothing to do with an NDA

it has everything to do with alienation.

see, the csm has benefited greatly from ****storms aimed at ccp. the summer rage meant ccp gave the csm big cookies to help deal with the player concerns, and i think that the csm sort of hopes that this will happen again.

That's stupid and it won't, because this is completely different than the summer PR incident. first of all in the summer the rage was aimed at the higherups who have the power to make major changes. this letter is trying to start a ****storm directed at the grunts of ccp, and it's telling because it speaks about implementation details. it's not going to work because those grunts of ccp aren't directly beholden to the media, and they aren't required to answer to the CSM or include them in operational details. it's also entirely the wrong way to go about it since they will take it as an insult to their livelihood. incarna to you is a game, incarna to them is a way to feed themselves, and they will do anything to keep that from being jeopardized.

devs aren't required to give the csm so much as the time of day, they only do it if they want to. and they're only going to do it if they think it's safe. we've proven ourselves willing to start pr **** when we don't get our way so this isn't going to help their willingness to deal with us. Thankfully most of us are leaving office, especially the people who were behind this. trebor and helen were supportive of the letter though, something voters might want to keep in mind.

i signed my name to the private letter because i agree with its points, but i'm not going to associate myself with the public letter. even if we get our way it isn't worth the risk that we go back to being csm-in-the-dark that we were during the csm 1-4.

this is stupid; i cant believe i'm the only person who thinks this; screw you guys im goin home

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.03.08 03:14:00 - [46]
 

It would be absurd to say anything in this letter violates an NDA. It is simply their requests. I don't see this as any sort of **** storm either.


I do agree ccp should communicate - I suppose. I also agree that incarna shouldn't screw up the spaceship game by making docking/undocking take unreasonably long or causing lag etc.


I am also not suggesting that CCP scrap incarna. That would just be dumb.

But I am saying I do not expect anything more than just being able to walk in stations. I don’t expect fireworks or some whole new fantastic game.

There are all sorts of games where you can do hand to hand or gun combat in space station settings. I’m not interested. I don’t want ccp thinking that they need to keep working on incarna until they come up with something great. The whole genre has been beat to death.

If they get some inspiration 5 years from now that’s fine. But don’t force it because some players feel they have some sort of right to something more substantial than “walking in stations.”

Just make us able to walk in stations in the most basic form possible. Then reassign the *vast* majority of devs back to spaceships.

I listened to part of the “lost in eve” csm debate. Seleene said CCP had only implemented a small portion of what they had planned for the spaceship game. There is allot more they can do in this game but they need to wrap up the incarna stuff and get to it.

PC l0adletter
Posted - 2011.03.08 03:16:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: mazzilliu
it has everything to do with alienation.


Eh, they left us first

Originally by: mazzilliu
csm sort of hopes that this will happen again

I think you're attributing unduly specific intent to the diffuse anger of tens of thousands of people who quit and posted about it last summer. They were trying to reach senior management but not mid-to-lower management and grunts? What? They were ****ed off and posted everywhere cuz they hoped it would make a difference or because they felt like something was taken from them and were mad.

I suspect CSM5ers think incarna will provoke :rage: with its bugs and slowness and no gameplay. They'd have to be huffing some pretty sweet ether to imagine a strongly-worded letter is gonna cause rage on its own; they're not morons. They're getting out ahead of the inevitable (to avoid blame, to mitigate damage if possible, to make a point, etc.)

Originally by: mazzilliu
will take it as an insult to their livelihood. incarna to you is a game, incarna to them is a way to feed themselves, and they will do anything to keep that from being jeopardized.

If they're looking to feed themselves by continuing to alienate their customers with idiotic priorities way outside their core competencies, then I hope they buried a lot of shark fins in the sand last summer.

Time was, eve had 60 mil in annual revenue and could feed lots of people if it was tended to. Howeer, since that wasn't as much fun as making console FPS and repeatedly learning to make a 3d engine, it got de-prioritized. Plus, i hear vampires are gonna be all the rage with the young folks around the 2012 holiday season. Could be bigger than farmville!

What people do or do not say about CCP/incarna/eve and in what forum doesn't much matter except to the extent that it's true or not. If it turns out to be a huge success because what second life was really missing was a buggy, laggy, primitive space sim with a sadistic UI played largely by bots, then nobody will care what was posted where and when and by whom.

Originally by: mazzilliu
they're only going to do it if they think it's safe

pretty sure that ship has sailed.

Originally by: mazzilliu
trebor and helen were supportive of the letter though, something voters might want to keep in mind.

First mittens sperging all over SHC and now this. Trebor, you have a really strange way of lobbying for support.


mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.08 03:59:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: PC l0adletter
Originally by: mazzilliu
it has everything to do with alienation.


Eh, they left us first



this csm term has enjoyed an unprecedented level of inclusion. keeping going in the direction of public complaints at things we don't like will jeopardize that

the rest of your reply is just spouting off at how you think ccp should be run. that's nice, go get a job in ccp upper management. my concern is with the csm and making sure that next term it gets to have the meaningful discussions that it's enjoyed this term.

Dacil Arandur
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.08 07:38:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: PC l0adletter
Originally by: mazzilliu
it has everything to do with alienation.


Eh, they left us first



this csm term has enjoyed an unprecedented level of inclusion. keeping going in the direction of public complaints at things we don't like will jeopardize that

the rest of your reply is just spouting off at how you think ccp should be run. that's nice, go get a job in ccp upper management. my concern is with the csm and making sure that next term it gets to have the meaningful discussions that it's enjoyed this term.


mazz, your new portrait is freaking gold.

Kireiina
Posted - 2011.03.08 08:01:00 - [50]
 


Incarna is just code that can be back-ported from WoD development without too much work so of course there's no Eve specific planning.

Nor is there any reason for there to be as Incarna *has no gameplay*.

I don't want a "roadmap", I don't expect CCP to stop working on it (They've invested so much in WoD they can't stop), I just don't want CCP or the CSM considering it as anything other than a cosmetic decoration on Eve.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.08 08:14:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: PC l0adletter
Originally by: mazzilliu
it has everything to do with alienation.


Eh, they left us first



this csm term has enjoyed an unprecedented level of inclusion. keeping going in the direction of public complaints at things we don't like will jeopardize that

the rest of your reply is just spouting off at how you think ccp should be run. that's nice, go get a job in ccp upper management. my concern is with the csm and making sure that next term it gets to have the meaningful discussions that it's enjoyed this term.
I thought you were quitting eve so why the concern?

Gehen Sealbreaker
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.08 09:46:00 - [52]
 

The recent release of information about Captain's Quarters was a good example of the communication efforts the community should receive more often about Incarna.
But all this lacks a bigger picture, a roadmap of sorts.

If I have a seat at the CSM, I'll be sure to continue your work on the crucial matter of communication between CCP and the players.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.03.08 11:40:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: mazzilliu
... this is completely different than the summer PR incident. first of all in the summer the rage was aimed at the higherups who have the power to make major changes. this letter is trying to start a ****storm directed at the grunts of ccp, and it's telling because it speaks about implementation details. ...


considering this public letter addresses design (gameplay) how can it be considered aiming at grunts?

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.08 13:28:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: mazzilliu on 08/03/2011 13:28:46
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: mazzilliu
... this is completely different than the summer PR incident. first of all in the summer the rage was aimed at the higherups who have the power to make major changes. this letter is trying to start a ****storm directed at the grunts of ccp, and it's telling because it speaks about implementation details. ...


considering this public letter addresses design (gameplay) how can it be considered aiming at grunts?


high level concerns: "hey you don't have anybody assigned to working on EVE" -summer, 2010, something only the higherups can deal with

low level concerns: "hey, why is this feature mandatory" -this letter, 2011, something only the grunts can deal with



Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: PC l0adletter
Originally by: mazzilliu
it has everything to do with alienation.


Eh, they left us first



this csm term has enjoyed an unprecedented level of inclusion. keeping going in the direction of public complaints at things we don't like will jeopardize that

the rest of your reply is just spouting off at how you think ccp should be run. that's nice, go get a job in ccp upper management. my concern is with the csm and making sure that next term it gets to have the meaningful discussions that it's enjoyed this term.
I thought you were quitting eve so why the concern?


what you think i'm doing and what i'm actually doing are probably two separate things

Amaratha
Wraith.Wing
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:11:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Amaratha on 08/03/2011 15:02:08

Serious Internet Politician
www.seriousinternetpolitician.com
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:18:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Serious Internet Politician on 08/03/2011 14:21:59

There is something weird happening to the post above me and its freaking me out.

xDaKewlGuyx
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:28:00 - [57]
 

Incarna wouldn't be a problem if there was a way to opt out of it. There isn't, at this point. Instead of being able to conveniently click a bunch of buttons we will be forced to walk around in a station to do these things.

I don't want to do such a stupid thing. I play this game to fly a spaceship, not wander around struggling with an obnoxious interface.

GateScout
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:34:00 - [58]
 

I think the CSM's concerns about the success or failure of Incarna are grossly overblown. While their point of the importantance of planning are spot on, those issues are generic and apply to every project in every business area.

Let's look at Incara:

Worse case, it's an abject failure and we (the players of Eve) are forced to spend a few seconds in an crappy avatar. However the rest of Eve should stay generally the same. It's still going to be the game we love. Of course, there are the lost cycles that CCP could have been putting into Eve. While true, they are already lost if this is a failure...and they are no more lost as if they were put on another PI feature (or pick your preferred "waste" of resources). End result., we still have eve and hopefully CCP will go back to doing what it does best

Best case: Incarna is a success. It's deepens the game play. Increases immersion and player interaction. It enhances the game we love. It bring in new subscribers for us to blow up/sell stuff to/scam/whatever.

The bottom line is that this isn't as dire as the CSM seems to be making it out to be. If CCP doesn't know where Incarna is headed, who cares? They didn't know where Eve was headed...and probably still don't. That's an asset. Unless the CSM knows something we don't, the "worst case" isn't that big of a deal. The risk to reward still seems to be in our favor.

Oh yeah....this is still a game. Enjoy it. ...or don't. Very Happy

Ritha Tyr
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:36:00 - [59]
 

Considering the stunt with this letter, its no wonder why CCP doesn't want to show an Incarna roadmap at this stage. It's in their best interest (and possibly everyone else's) to at least wait until this CSM leaves office. Also, as far as timing goes, with Fan Fest right around the corner, and CSM elections coming up, why on earth would they talk more about Incarna now?

I think Mazzilliu is right, this public letter potentially does more harm then good. Not just with CCP, but also with regard to how the CSM is viewed by the players. If this letter had come out after Fan Fest, as the result of a lack of information revealed, then that would make sense. As it is, the timing seems to be in the best interest of only a few.

Jame Jarl Retief
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:57:00 - [60]
 

Personally I would have waited the two weeks until Fanfest before posting a public letter. Two weeks' wait wouldn't change anything. But based on information general public might get about Incarna, such a letter might get much more public exposure and support and result in actual action.

Right now, most players know nothing about Incarna beyond captain's quarters, and even that is just a rough idea - we don't know how movement will be handled, etc., etc. It's not on Sisi yet either, but should be this or next week unless their schedule changed.

As a result, most of us can't honestly say /agree or /disagree or even /you are overreacting, because we simply don't know. Won't know, for at least two weeks. So what purpose can such a letter serve at this point in time aside from creating anxiety? Sounds like something that should have been worked out privately, or post-Fanfest.

But that's my take on it based on what I know about Incarna. Which is practically nothing. I understand CSM may be privy to information under NDA that makes them act this way, and I find it very disturbing. For many of us Incarna is a "make it or break it" feature. If it turns out to be a total letdown, and all we get this summer is one character in a tiny room doing nothing except converting oxygen to carbon dioxide, followed by another 6 months or more of iteration of more tiny rooms in which one or more characters will be converting oxygen to carbon dioxide together, that's a year wasted. The payoff for the amount of work spent on it would be slim and none.

I understand that CCP needs Carbon/Incarna both for EVE as a platform for future non-ship content as well as WoD, but they need to remember that they can't leave the space portion of EVE to stagnate for years while they do it. APB is a good example - developers spent an awful lot of time on the character creator - which was frankly amazing - but forgot the rest of the game. As a result, it was one of the quickest and most brutal failures in MMO history - under 3 months from release to server shutdown.

Bottom line, speaking for myself, I don't know what to think. Obviously CSM is deeply concerned, and I assume they have more information than we do, albeit under the NDA. But is it bad enough to risk bad blood between present/future CSM and CCP for going public, especially in light of recent "CCP and CSM strengthening the bond" interview a month or two ago? I guess time will tell.


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