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Aemmaria
Posted - 2011.03.10 17:45:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Andrea Griffin
[

TL;DR: Goons once again display their lack of character by lying and twisting the truth. Or, their inability to read. Probably both.


Goons do not have an ability to read, just by design. So in a sense you can't call that "inability". Semantics Very Happy

roho816
Wife Aggro Productions
Posted - 2011.03.10 17:46:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: roho816 on 10/03/2011 17:47:10
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 10/03/2011 17:11:59
Seems to me that he was talking about a weapon that would chain damage, from ship to ship, gradually decreasing. His exact words "Think of it as a giant pinball of pain bouncing through the grid." He wasn't actually advocating turning Eve into a pinball game.

If there's a need to front load the client with important information, but not allow the client to read it until a certain time, then this is a way to do it. As long as the key is long enough it's perfectly secure. What's your problem with this?

I found this to be an interesting idea. In a way it breaks up a large gang into smaller areas of fighting. This brings a host of problems - being able to see what is on the field, where the snipers are, logistics having trouble projecting - and it doesn't fix big blob vs. small gang. But, at least the guy is being creative and thinking outside of the box. Even a bad idea has the potential to become a good idea over time.

Yup, an idea proposed for, essentially, dynamically sized containers. That's so terrible. What is the world coming to?

Try reading it again. He wanted to allow certain ships to activate a cloak while still under gate cloak. There's nothing in there about preventing someone from using the MWD/Cloak trick.



TL;DR: Goons once again display their lack of character by lying and twisting the truth. Or, their inability to read. Probably both.


The problem I have--retired 0.0 guy, now lowly empire industrialist here--is that he doesn't seem to think things through. You're quick to defend Treb and villify the goons' message without reading it. In game (and in CAOD) I'd never trust their word on things, but in regards to game mechanics you have to give them credit--they do seem to know what they're talking about more than most.

If you can't see that plastic wrap on demand would break courier contracts, that the cloaking-under-gate-cloak ability would make covert ops capable ships nigh-invulnerable (and thus render moving expensive things nearly 100% safe) and how inherently insecure it is to send system data to clients "in advance" I can't explain it to you simply enough. Poorly thought out and silly ideas are a real-life ISK per dozen, but a CSM rep needs to be able to take the 5 minutes to critically think them through to shut down the game-breaking ones--if for no other reason than to not waste CCP's time. (Or, more cynically, to not give them any more ammo to shoot their feet with)

Oh, and the limited-visibility idea? It already happens on broken nodes, and if you've ever tried to use a carrier to refit in a group you would know how shoddily CCP codes "closest ships" and how that idea would never work.

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.03.10 18:37:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 10/03/2011 20:37:33
Originally by: roho816
cloaking-under-gate-cloak ability would make covert ops capable ships nigh-invulnerable (and thus render moving expensive things nearly 100% safe) and how inherently insecure it is to send system data to clients "in advance" I can't explain it to you simply enough.
I don't like a lot of his ideas either, that one included. My point is that he is being misrepresented. That is what I don't like. I'm one of those people who gets very annoyed when people are intentionally misrepresented even if I don't like or agree with that person.

For example, I don't like Obama at all. I think he's slime. But, when someone goes around spreading lies about him, I'll try to set things straight.

You can't have meaningful or constructive conversation when that conversation is based on lies and half truths.

Also, sending data to clients in advance is not insecure if it is done correctly. There are cryptographic protocols designed to do this specific task. Bruce Schneier's Applied Cryptography book has several.

roho816
Wife Aggro Productions
Posted - 2011.03.10 18:59:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Originally by: roho816
cloaking-under-gate-cloak ability would make covert ops capable ships nigh-invulnerable (and thus render moving expensive things nearly 100% safe) and how inherently insecure it is to send system data to clients "in advance" I can't explain it to you simply enough.
I don't like a lot of his ideas either, that one included. My point is that he is being misrepresented. That is what I don't like. I'm one of those people who gets very annoyed when people are intentionally misrepresented even if I don't like or agree with that person.

Also, sending data to clients in advance is not insecure if it is done correctly. There are cryptographic protocols designed to do this specific task. Bruce Schneider's Applied Cryptography book has several.


But then you run into client processing requirements depending on the strength of the encryption and its method. Not saying a reasonable level of security can't be attained, but ultimately I think client processing is not the source of lag: it's server processing and the limitations of the single-core system architecture.

Everyone is entitled to bad ideas. But is it really a misreperesentation to say "this guy doesn't appear to sift through ideas very well and is running for a job that asks him to do exactly that"?


Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.03.10 19:17:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: roho816
Everyone is entitled to bad ideas. But is it really a misreperesentation to say "this guy doesn't appear to sift through ideas very well and is running for a job that asks him to do exactly that"?
It is if the ideas being used as examples aren't really his ideas.

Quote:
Don't vote for Mittani. I hear he wants to remove all of null sec and replace it with a new high sec area dedicated to hugging unicorns!
Terrible idea - but I'm pretty sure that The Mittani doesn't want to do that. It doesn't matter how terrible that idea is - it can't be used to judge Mittani's fitness to be on the CSM because it's not true.

Crucify people but do so honestly.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:39:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 10/03/2011 21:39:57
Originally by: roho816
But then you run into client processing requirements depending on the strength of the encryption and its method. Not saying a reasonable level of security can't be attained, but ultimately I think client processing is not the source of lag: it's server processing and the limitations of the single-core system architecture.


There is plenty of cheap encryption that could be used for this purpose. Server processing is responsible for some lag, network latency and throughput are responsible for other lag, client processing is responsible for some too. Sending a batch of encrypted data as ships start jumping or start warping will help reduce grid loading lag. Just send the decryption key at the end of the dump, and make sure the cipher is strong enough to resist brute force for a few minutes.

Quote:
Everyone is entitled to bad ideas. But is it really a misreperesentation to say "this guy doesn't appear to sift through ideas very well and is running for a job that asks him to do exactly that"?


I contend that the job of the CSM isn't to sift through ideas, it is to represent the player base. There should not be a requirement to be a game design expert to be on CSM, just an ability to read, summarize, present, argue, debate, listen and think critically. Oh, and the ability to stick to the facts when presenting the combined opinion of the player base rather than staying on-message to your coalition's political bias.

Edit: iPad fat fingers

Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:22:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 10/03/2011 11:52:32
Originally by: Cassus Temon
My personal 'gut' feeling; is that Trebor is dirty.


That's called projection.

And +1 to Jade Constantine's "YOU ARE NOT A GOON" summary of this whole stupid thread :)



Nice analysis there; but you are wrong on that count. Hunches, and gut feelings do not qualify as projection. They don't ascribe feelings, or redirect personal failures on another. They simply make one feel, that a person is not to be trusted; and is guilty of something, which is currently unidentified.

I said it was a gut feeling; because I have no evidence of wrongdoing. I simply feel; that it exists.


This is a result of my reading Trebor's post, and responses; and subconciously recognizing something, which triggers a defensive mechanism. What it is, cannot be identified; as it results from a familairity with past experience. I cannot say 'who' it was that caused these feeling's; or created the situation, that caused me to subconciously recognize similiar traits and examples of character. I just know that something's fishy; and, that I don't like the individual in question, as a result. This doesn't mean I'm right; thus, it's a hunch.

I hope you're not a pshycologist. If you are, you should learn to spend more time; analyzing an individual's responses, before making decisions as to there character. By your call, I'm ascribing personal feelings, decisions, and character; to an individual I have never met, and thus dislike. Yet, I don't dislike myself, and I am a 'good' person; who chooses to treat others with respect, when they deserve it. Such a person, should then be someone I respect; perhap's even take a liking too, and support. You're assuming, that I don't know myself, and have a denial trait; which prevents me from self-examination. A lack of objectivity; and inability to accept blame.

You would, in general, be wrong in any case; as moments where I ascribe to that character, are fleeting. Everyone has moments of denial; where they project blame. It is an immediate response, as a result of recognition of wrongdoing; and generally, lasts no longer than the situation it resulted from. ..or 3 days.

I have no place, or stake in this race, anyway; aside from voting for candidates. I am simply putting forth an opinion; which I believe is relevent to the case. I think, in time; you will find, I am right.


roho816
Wife Aggro Productions
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:53:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 10/03/2011 21:39:57
There should not be a requirement to be a game design expert to be on CSM, just an ability to read, summarize, present, argue, debate, listen and think critically.


If it was just a question of presenting the eve communities' pet requests, CSM6 will have to strongly corner CCP about the lack of genitalia customization options in the character creator, as well as the need to order pizza in game. Clearly, sifting is part of the job.

The CSM is not a request aggregator. It's intended to be a useful interface between CCP and the playerbase. One of the functions is a sounding board for CCP's ideas, one is a means for players to request priority fixes. In both these capacities, a CSM rep needs to be able to consider the "fix" or enhancement and try to figure out if it will break things more than it will help them. If aren't able to apply a basic sniff test to ideas before giving a thumbs up, you're going to be a drag on the rest of the council when they have to shoot down the change that you should have never brought up or nodded at approvingly.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:00:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Cassus Temon
... I think, in time; you will find, I am right.


Actually, no, I think we won't.

HeroInAHalfShell
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:12:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Cassus Temon
... I think, in time; you will find, I am right.


Actually, no, I think we won't.


You can't tell him what he thinks! This is an outrage!

(Basically you responded to him saying what he thinks by saying "Actually, no," which is a stupid thing to do because that isn't how things work)

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:41:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: ******AHalfShell
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Cassus Temon
... I think, in time; you will find, I am right.


Actually, no, I think we won't.


You can't tell him what he thinks! This is an outrage!

(Basically you responded to him saying what he thinks by saying "Actually, no," which is a stupid thing to do because that isn't how things work)
Quoted for even more hilarity! Very Happy

This is excellent stuff. Better than Charlie Sheen at a press interview.

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 04:01:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Edited by: Johnathan Walker on 10/03/2011 11:40:39
Originally by: Courthouse

The part in quotations was not editorialized in any way. I bolded a different series of sentences for focus, but did not change any text, words or grammar.




This IS A **LIE**.


Given the character limits of the forums, I'll summarize:

Original Post:
Quote:
he's also even more of an unfunny ***got in real life than he is on the internet - a feat that I didn't think was possible until I ended up trapped in a room with him for 8 hours a day.



Quote:
Goonrushing his campaign thread will be too transparent, so don't do that. It's important that this is done from anonymous alts and phrased in ways that lead him to say dumb things himself rather than put him on the defensive. Seriously, **** that guy.




Both are missing from your quote. To say no edits were done is false. Now that I've proven the issue, what claims do you make to back-pedal out of this one?


Yeah, I'm still not seeing what you're getting at as both of those lines are in the quoted part of my post.

If there was a character mish-mash between the copy-paste from goonfleet.com to eveo, I was unaware of it and any undesired changes to the formatting were unintentional.

It's sort of hard to **** up a copy-paste mechanic, especially since I did it twice, but if you're hung up on that then I doubt there's much I could do to satify your need to troll this thread.

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 04:10:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Courthouse on 11/03/2011 04:22:55
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 10/03/2011 17:11:59
Originally by: Courthouse
He argued for a 'pinball' style Doomsday weapon change
Seems to me that he was talking about a weapon that would chain damage, from ship to ship, gradually decreasing. His exact words "Think of it as a giant pinball of pain bouncing through the grid." He wasn't actually advocating turning Eve into a pinball game.


"'pinball' style doomsday weapon". Where did I even suggest that he was looking to turn EVE into a piball game?

Quote:
Originally by: Courthouse
He wants to remove the ability to converse in local with a spam-timeout system (no more fofofofo chains, z0r, gfgfgf or ascii macro spam)
Yeah, because that's what Eve needs more of: ascii macro spam. Rolling Eyes Granted, I don't like the idea, but your biggest complaint is that you can't spam ascii? Seriously?


If that was my biggest complaint then I would have focused on it. It was included in a list of bad ideas he had brought up.

Quote:
Originally by: Courthouse
Front loading the client with packets that are 'decrypted' at a later time that supposedly would be 'unreadable'
If there's a need to front load the client with important information, but not allow the client to read it until a certain time, then this is a way to do it. As long as the key is long enough it's perfectly secure. What's your problem with this?


Dedicated individuals could crack the encryption, client-side, leading to significant advantages. You think Monkeysphere's invisible-in-local stunt was bad? This would be much much worse.

Quote:
Originally by: Courthouse
Fix blobs my making it so that you can't see anyone but the ships right next to you because of 'warp core interference'
I found this to be an interesting idea. In a way it breaks up a large gang into smaller areas of fighting. This brings a host of problems - being able to see what is on the field, where the snipers are, logistics having trouble projecting - and it doesn't fix big blob vs. small gang. But, at least the guy is being creative and thinking outside of the box. Even a bad idea has the potential to become a good idea over time.


hang on, let me titan-cannon a hundred alts in newbie frigates on your fleet and **** you, we'll continue this discussion when you load in station.

Quote:
Originally by: Courthouse
Allow 'shrink wrap' for more than just courier contracts
Yup, an idea proposed for, essentially, dynamically sized containers. That's so terrible. What is the world coming to?


I'll just wrap up a couple hundred construction blocks and issue a contract called Caldari Navy Raven for 700m ISK. Trust me, it's a Navy Raven in there.

Due to the limitations of post length I'll have to address the rest of your post in a follow up. It'll be posted shortly.



Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 04:22:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Courthouse on 11/03/2011 04:25:15
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Originally by: Courthouse
He wanted to remove the MWD/Cloak trick
Try reading it again. He wanted to allow certain ships to activate a cloak while still under gate cloak. There's nothing in there about preventing someone from using the MWD/Cloak trick.


Someone else posted a decent retort to this point, but for the record I'll just put out there that there are very few ways to survive a gate camp and without an in-game means of determining what's on the other side of a gate before you jump through. Making any changes to further limit survivability options would be bad for the average eve player.

Furthermore, making recons and covops into invincible perma-cloakers instead of having the ridiculously short vulerability period they have now is also a bad idea. EVE thrives on risk-versus-reward. Implement this and you'd hardly ever see a person outside of a gang/fleet in anything other than a covops/recon, not to mention making it perfectly safe to transport high value items like BPOs without risk.

Quote:
Originally by: Courthouse
He's argued for and against changes to Local channel visibility.
Yeah, because after a year and a half between posts, he might not have had enough experience to change his mind?


I mentioned in a previous post that I would have loved if he would address these points and even gave away a very powerful escape mechanism by mentioning that a reply to the tune of 'I used to think that but my experiences in x, y, z have changed my mind.'

He hasn't bothered to reply to those, so for now I won't substitute an excuse for bad ideas.

Quote:
Originally by: Courthouse
He wants the titan's Jump Portal to suck up everything around the titan, including the titan, itself, and jump it all to a cyno for a sneaky ambush trap ship
Yup, a tongue-in-cheek, goofing off thread for "funny" fixes to titan jump bridges...


It's almost comedic how many 'funny' fix ideas turn into real implementation. Perhaps an astute reader may catch on to this and say "okay, so tongue-in-cheek reply on this one, but that's still ONE. BAD. IDEA. which really only serves to further my original thesis that Trebor is bad at EVE and would be a bad choice when it came down to CCP saying 'hey, we want to do THIS next, what do you guys think?'

Quote:
TL;DR: Goons once again display their lack of character by lying and twisting the truth. Or, their inability to read. Probably both.


Neither really, as I've maintained decorum throughout this thread and have taken the time to address several people's posts with reasonable, constructive replies. Catch-all commentary works well in CAOD, but it really undermines your credibility when you're trying to make a high road argument.

Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.03.11 05:16:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Nerodon on 11/03/2011 05:23:32
Alright alright. While I can agree with the OP on a few points, I hardly think that bringing up a few examples of bad ideas in which are simply original suggestions that, indeed may sound stupid, but in my book "and probably Trebors as well" just shooting ideas on the table, no matter how terrible they may sound can serve as starting points for other ideas, we all do that when brainstorming.

And yea yea... Trebor might not know Eve as much as you or I, but we have to think on what exactly makes the difference between a good and a bad CSM. Your arguments against Trebor are only one-dimensional as they attack his one major weakness, which in this case is probably game knowledge. But his many other qualities far outshine that. Of course they're are plenty of CSM that are probably more suited, but I disagree that this lack of knowledge is as detrimental to his abilities as CSM as you believe it to be.

The facts are indeed laid out, and now, the interpretation of these facts is what it's all about.

Another fact is that I can see a lot of agressivity towards Trebor in the sense that you are trying to undermine his campaign by exposing his less pretty qualities. Fair game, but still, all it is, is negative projection, just like negative advertising. Cold hard fact or not, people's opinions about who makes a good CSM is entirely subjective!


Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.03.11 05:54:00 - [76]
 

Once again Goons need to train up reading comprehension (if possible, which apparently it is not). I didn't like a lot of the ideas that were brought up; a lot of them have major issues. However, that wasn't the point of my post: My point is that you are intentionally misrepresenting him.

Typical Goon behavior, but I figured that the casual reader, or one unfamiliar with the lameness of the Goons in general, should be made aware of your stunts.

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 06:00:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Nerodon
Edited by: Nerodon on 11/03/2011 05:23:32
Alright alright. While I can agree with the OP on a few points, I hardly think that bringing up a few examples of bad ideas in which are simply original suggestions that, indeed may sound stupid, but in my book "and probably Trebors as well" just shooting ideas on the table, no matter how terrible they may sound can serve as starting points for other ideas, we all do that when brainstorming.


Shotgunning ideas is what you do when you're developing from the ground up. Once your platform/program/presentation is framed up you stop throwing out random ideas and start working within constructs and limiters. People who continue to shotgun ideas after this stage are detrimental to the process and ultimately will cause delays due to investigations into plausibility of implausible or improbable functions or drama due to their ideas being summarily dismissed.

This is business development 101 stuff, if you're interested I highly recommend checking out TED.com and watching some of their presentations on dynamic development process.

Quote:
And yea yea... Trebor might not know Eve as much as you or I, but we have to think on what exactly makes the difference between a good and a bad CSM. Your arguments against Trebor are only one-dimensional as they attack his one major weakness, which in this case is probably game knowledge. But his many other qualities far outshine that. Of course they're are plenty of CSM that are probably more suited, but I disagree that this lack of knowledge is as detrimental to his abilities as CSM as you believe it to be.


This is where you and I are going to diverge on our opinions.

I would hope for, and expect my CSM reps to have outstanding knowledge of at least one major thematic 'area' of EVE. Whether that is mission-running, lowsec piracy, industry and marketing, 0.0 bloc politics, etc. I do not expect a CSM rep to be an expert in all of these examples, or any other examples one may want to bring up. Being highly knowledgeable in one area and perhaps familiar in one or two others would be fantastic, as that person would potentially have a very keen mind to any changes or additions that CCP may offer along the lines of or affected by whichever their area of expertise lies.

Someone who is verbose, charismatic and lacks understanding of many basic areas of EVE would use the CSM as an 'It's all about ME' show (vis-a-vie Jade Constantine's run in CSM 1).

As a CSM and a playerbase we've grown past that stage to the point where CCP is beginning to utilize the CSM as a development partner, not just a focus group that they wind up ignoring afterwards. I want ALL of the CSM reps, not just my favored few, to reflect this.

Quote:
The facts are indeed laid out, and now, the interpretation of these facts is what it's all about.

Another fact is that I can see a lot of agressivity towards Trebor in the sense that you are trying to undermine his campaign by exposing his less pretty qualities. Fair game, but still, all it is, is negative projection, just like negative advertising. Cold hard fact or not, people's opinions about who makes a good CSM is entirely subjective!




I never presented my opinion as objective. I presented the sources/facts that laid the foundations of my opinion in an objective manner, but I was clear when I made my case that it was my subjective opinion behind the post.

Yes, this is a negative piece on Trebor. He's had some very zealous sycophants giving his nether orifice a good tonguing for the last few weeks and it was clear that he was to be a crowd favorite. I chose to look into him to see what the hype was all about and was appalled at what I saw. The shock of it all led me to want to share my findings as I felt that others would feel equally duped by him and would help me to see better candidates to the CSM this time around.

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 06:05:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Once again Goons need to train up reading comprehension (if possible, which apparently it is not). I didn't like a lot of the ideas that were brought up; a lot of them have major issues. However, that wasn't the point of my post: My point is that you are intentionally misrepresenting him.


You've made a point that I was misrepresenting him and have yet to back that accusation with anything resembling an argument, let alone a convincing one. It's hard to picture that taking someone's words within the context that they presented them, collating multiple instances of these, and presenting them as a theme is somehow misrepresentative.

Quote:
Typical Goon behavior, but I figured that the casual reader, or one unfamiliar with the lameness of the Goons in general, should be made aware of your stunts.


Typical goon behavior would involve more **** jokes and 4chan memes. It's bad enough that you're making a horrible argument, but when you can't even identify what a 'typical goon' action is and see that what I'm doing here is extremely atypical I would question the basis of your understanding of politics and the electoral process and suggest that you may be too young or immature to contribute meaningfully.

Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.03.11 06:26:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: ******AHalfShell
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Cassus Temon
... I think, in time; you will find, I am right.


Actually, no, I think we won't.


You can't tell him what he thinks! This is an outrage!

(Basically you responded to him saying what he thinks by saying "Actually, no," which is a stupid thing to do because that isn't how things work)
Quoted for even more hilarity! Very Happy

This is excellent stuff. Better than Charlie Sheen at a press interview.


you saw that, huh? Laughing

Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.03.11 06:36:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Courthouse
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Once again Goons need to train up reading comprehension (if possible, which apparently it is not). I didn't like a lot of the ideas that were brought up; a lot of them have major issues. However, that wasn't the point of my post: My point is that you are intentionally misrepresenting him.


You've made a point that I was misrepresenting him and have yet to back that accusation with anything resembling an argument, let alone a convincing one. It's hard to picture that taking someone's words within the context that they presented them, collating multiple instances of these, and presenting them as a theme is somehow misrepresentative.

Quote:
Typical Goon behavior, but I figured that the casual reader, or one unfamiliar with the lameness of the Goons in general, should be made aware of your stunts.


Typical goon behavior would involve more **** jokes and 4chan memes. It's bad enough that you're making a horrible argument, but when you can't even identify what a 'typical goon' action is and see that what I'm doing here is extremely atypical I would question the basis of your understanding of politics and the electoral process and suggest that you may be too young or immature to contribute meaningfully.



The whole point, is that they are generalizing the Goon mentality; and using that to discredit any argument you might put forward, as having evolved from the Goon Hive mind. They refuse to allow for the fact; that you are all indivduals, with different perspectives. That's typical, for trolling forum posts with propaganda; intended soley, to discredit the original author of the post, and any who agree with him/her.

For all we know; the are all Trebor's alt's. ..but that too; would be generalizing. Trebor might not be a bad guy. For all we know, he just lacks the ability to communicate himself; and reach his intended audience, with a post that truly represents his point of view, and character. There is a software Engineer, here in Canada; that has developed a 'letter' editing tool, intended to eliminate an author's miscommunication of his intent. Effectively, it pulls apart a post, letter, or other document; and analyzes it for communication of the idea's therein. Once this is done, and the process has 'found' a typical audiences interpretation; it will communicate this to the author, and allow him to edit his writing, for better communication of idea's. Thus, when he has finished his document; the intended audience should receive it, with little difficulty in understanding the intent behind it. Useful tool.. wish I had one. Smile

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 06:40:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Cassus Temon
There is a software Engineer, here in Canada; that has developed a 'letter' editing tool, intended to eliminate an author's miscommunication of his intent. Effectively, it pulls apart a post, letter, or other document; and analyzes it for communication of the idea's therein. Once this is done, and the process has 'found' a typical audiences interpretation; it will communicate this to the author, and allow him to edit his writing, for better communication of idea's. Thus, when he has finished his document; the intended audience should receive it, with little difficulty in understanding the intent behind it. Useful tool.. wish I had one. Smile


If you can recall the engineer's name or company or the name of the software post it. That sounds intriguing.

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 07:17:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Courthouse


Yeah, I'm still not seeing what you're getting at as both of those lines are in the quoted part of my post.




Are you blind? Your quote is 1,700 characters, with spaces. The actual quotation is 1,920 characters with spaces. This isn't about trolling, it's about outright LYING and blatant misrepresentation, coupled with additional coping mechanisms to deny factual truth when caught.

You've been busted. Stop trying to hide it.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 07:23:00 - [83]
 

after seeing a lot of johnathan walker posts this csm election, i mostly just want to know if he's a furry, a roleplayer, or a 'bear'. or some combination of all three

this is a pretty pressing issue, please address it

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:14:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Originally by: Courthouse


Yeah, I'm still not seeing what you're getting at as both of those lines are in the quoted part of my post.




Are you blind? Your quote is 1,700 characters, with spaces. The actual quotation is 1,920 characters with spaces. This isn't about trolling, it's about outright LYING and blatant misrepresentation, coupled with additional coping mechanisms to deny factual truth when caught.

You've been busted. Stop trying to hide it.


Tell you what, how about you link me your source? I know exactly where I pulled mine from, and it's unaltered. Link yours and we'll compare notes.

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:29:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Courthouse

Tell you what, how about you link me your source? I know exactly where I pulled mine from, and it's unaltered. Link yours and we'll compare notes.



Sure, no problem.
Your post
Mittani's Post
Apparently your post, in this same thread, but with additional content


Satisfied?




Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:30:00 - [86]
 

After all the drama that the Goons and their bunnies have gone through to smear Trebor, he could support replacing eve with ponies online and I'd still vote for him.

Fact is that the drama has almost certainly helped his campaign more that hurt it.

What remains to be seen is what happens during CSM6. It'll be interesting to see if Alex and his boys can behave constructively or if they'll resort to the same sort of drama there that led earlier CSMs to irrelevance. vOv

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:31:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Johnathan Walker on 11/03/2011 08:32:47
Originally by: The Mittani
after seeing a lot of johnathan walker posts this csm election, i mostly just want to know if he's a furry, a roleplayer, or a 'bear'. or some combination of all three

this is a pretty pressing issue, please address it



Roleplayer = No
"Bear" = Absolutely not
Furry = This one amuses me. But no.


-edit-

Someone who's not intimidated by fame/popular support and calls "BS" on brainwashing: Hell yes.

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:44:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Courthouse on 11/03/2011 08:45:26
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Originally by: Courthouse

Tell you what, how about you link me your source? I know exactly where I pulled mine from, and it's unaltered. Link yours and we'll compare notes.



Sure, no problem.
Your post
Mittani's Post
Apparently your post, in this same thread, but with additional content


Satisfied?






Honestly, no. I did an overlay and all 3 posts have the exact same content with a very simple exception. After the 2nd paragraph there is a :cripes: in Mittani's post that didn't appear in either of the ones you linked of mine.

I have previously explained that :cripes: is an emoticon that we use on our forums and it doesn't translate here. I did include it in an additional copy/paste along with underlining two words to match the exact appearance of the post from goonfleet.com

Actually, I'm done trying to explain to you how copy/paste works. You're clearly getting angry because your trolling isn't working.


Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:59:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Courthouse

Shotgunning ideas is what you do when you're developing from the ground up. Once your platform/program/presentation is framed up you stop throwing out random ideas and start working within constructs and limiters. People who continue to shotgun ideas after this stage are detrimental to the process and ultimately will cause delays due to investigations into plausibility of implausible or improbable functions or drama due to their ideas being summarily dismissed.

This is business development 101 stuff, if you're interested I highly recommend checking out TED.com and watching some of their presentations on dynamic development process.



Wouldn't that imply that since Eve is already created then we should try to stay as close to the original product as possible? Of course improvement upon the already established system is what we want, but nothing says fresh ideas can't also be something to think about.

Drama due to their ideas being summarily dismissed really seems childish in a professional environment. I don't see a reason to get attached to ideas that were simply "shotguned" out there. Also the CSM does not have much say in suggesting full fledged solutions, CCP devs do that. I'm not that worried that it will cause much of a problem.


Quote:
This is where you and I are going to diverge on our opinions.

I would hope for, and expect my CSM reps to have outstanding knowledge of at least one major thematic 'area' of EVE. Whether that is mission-running, lowsec piracy, industry and marketing, 0.0 bloc politics, etc. I do not expect a CSM rep to be an expert in all of these examples, or any other examples one may want to bring up. Being highly knowledgeable in one area and perhaps familiar in one or two others would be fantastic, as that person would potentially have a very keen mind to any changes or additions that CCP may offer along the lines of or affected by whichever their area of expertise lies.

Someone who is verbose, charismatic and lacks understanding of many basic areas of EVE would use the CSM as an 'It's all about ME' show (vis-a-vie Jade Constantine's run in CSM 1).

As a CSM and a playerbase we've grown past that stage to the point where CCP is beginning to utilize the CSM as a development partner, not just a focus group that they wind up ignoring afterwards. I want ALL of the CSM reps, not just my favored few, to reflect this.


I don't think it would be productive to argue about that since I do believe this is really a matter of opinion. the "All about me" factor, in my opinion, depends greatly on the CSM's personality. It's not easy to measure when you base yourself on what they say, especially when the speeches are part of a politic-esque campaign.


Quote:

I never presented my opinion as objective. [...]

Yes, this is a negative piece on Trebor. He's had some very zealous sycophants giving his nether orifice a good tonguing for the last few weeks and it was clear that he was to be a crowd favorite. I chose to look into him to see what the hype was all about and was appalled at what I saw. The shock of it all led me to want to share my findings as I felt that others would feel equally duped by him and would help me to see better candidates to the CSM this time around.


I laughed at this one, because it is indeed true. I do think that Trebor does indeed get way more credit than he deserves, but then again, this does reflect human nature. People follow the masses and can be converted by the slightest indication of "good leadership". And after they chose they're allignement, changing one's mind is almost shameful. Too much pride to give up on what you believed, so much that you'd hide your disappointment by blaming the goons of foul-play.

I don't believe Trebor is a bad CSM candidate, but he's not the best either. His other qualities in terms of organisation and communication is what I think is good about him, but there's plenty reasons to expect more

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 17:15:00 - [90]
 

Quote:


Honestly, no. I did an overlay and all 3 posts have the exact same content with a very simple exception. After the 2nd paragraph there is a :cripes: in Mittani's post that didn't appear in either of the ones you linked of mine.

Actually, I'm done trying to explain to you how copy/paste works. You're clearly getting angry because your trolling isn't working.





You must be a complete idiot.

Fifteen seconds of clicking:

Your post: He has zero clue about how this game works but doesn't let his lack of knowledge get in the way of offering an opinion He wrote some PASCAL games back in the 80s

Mittani's post: He has zero clue about how this game works but doesn't let his lack of knowledge get in the way of offering an opinion, he's also even more of an unfunny ***got in real life than he is on the internet - a feat that I didn't think was possible until I ended up trapped in a room with him for 8 hours a day. He wrote some PASCAL games back in the 80s


Let's play spot the difference(s). If you can tell me that there is no difference between these two snips Courthouse, the entire community should realize how ridiculous your wild claims are as a whole when your comprehension is seriously in need of some work.


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