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Research McSmartypants
Posted - 2011.04.14 16:46:00 - [241]
 

Edited by: Research McSmartypants on 14/04/2011 16:49:09
I have recently confirmed the advantage of high faction standings and the ability to refuse inside the penalty period with negligible faction standings penalty; however, the hit to the corp and agent standings is very noteworthy.

Note that this is with L5 missions as well where refusal penalties are likely higher than the L4 being discussed.

Given the L5 offer success rate, maybe 1 in 6, my concern with this method is the potential to drive agent and corp standings negative. What are the implications?

Even with a faction standing of 9.5, will corps/agents stop talking to me at some point?

Will the hit to agent standings eventually compromise the reward to the point that it's not worth doing?

My thought is to continue my typical 2 visits per day to avoid the penalties unless I find myself with the time to run a blitz of missions from all of my accessible agents... maybe once or twice a month.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.04.14 19:32:00 - [242]
 

Hello.

You must be careful about your corp and personal standing. SPECIALLY corp standings.

Both of them cant drop below -2.

When doing lv 5 missions, rejecting drops 4-8% of your faction standings

The good news is, you gain a whole lot of standings for every mission you accomplish. This is because your corp standing is low (you get more the lower it is) in term of magnitude.

For example, if your corp standing is 8.0 , every angel extravaganza rejection you lose 0.5 standing (8.0-->7.5) Every angel extravaganza finish you gain 0.1 standing (8.0-->8.1)

However, when your corp standing is 0.0 (around -2 real standing with diplomacy IV). Every angel extravaganza rejection, you lose only 0.2-0.3 standing (0.0--> -ve 0.3). However, every angel extravaganza completion you gain 1.0-2.0 standing (0.0-->2.0). so you can really reject much much more.
.

This is different to lv 5 missions. because every rejection loses you LOTS of agent standing (more then 8%, more then double AE). so even at 0.0 standing, you lose quite a bit.

Good luck. As long as you keep an eye on the standings, faction > requirement, corp > -2 , agent > -2 , you will be fine mass rejecting. I gave up trying to get 10.00 faction anyways

Research McSmartypants
Posted - 2011.04.14 23:52:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Straight Edged
Hello.

You must be careful about your corp and personal standing. SPECIALLY corp standings.

Both of them cant drop below -2.

When doing lv 5 missions, rejecting drops 4-8% of your faction standings

The good news is, you gain a whole lot of standings for every mission you accomplish. This is because your corp standing is low (you get more the lower it is) in term of magnitude.

For example, if your corp standing is 8.0 , every angel extravaganza rejection you lose 0.5 standing (8.0-->7.5) Every angel extravaganza finish you gain 0.1 standing (8.0-->8.1)

However, when your corp standing is 0.0 (around -2 real standing with diplomacy IV). Every angel extravaganza rejection, you lose only 0.2-0.3 standing (0.0--> -ve 0.3). However, every angel extravaganza completion you gain 1.0-2.0 standing (0.0-->2.0). so you can really reject much much more.
.

This is different to lv 5 missions. because every rejection loses you LOTS of agent standing (more then 8%, more then double AE). so even at 0.0 standing, you lose quite a bit.

Good luck. As long as you keep an eye on the standings, faction > requirement, corp > -2 , agent > -2 , you will be fine mass rejecting. I gave up trying to get 10.00 faction anyways


Thanks for the feedback. Faction is at 9.47 adjusted, and two rejects didn't budge it at all.

I was concerned that -2.0 would be a killer. And yes, the corp standing hits observed have been between -4 and -6%, which are pretty hard hitters when standing is 9+. Standings rewards for my skills are a constant 5.08%, but I'm sharing that with an alt, so 5 out of 6 ~5% drops for every 2.5% gain (due to sharing) is likely a recipe for long term failure.

I won't be taking the decline "bombing" approach unless I'm looking to do a periodic sweep... maybe once or twice a month when I have a day free to run missions.

This thread introduced me to the concept, and I was surprised to see how resilient the faction standings remain.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2011.04.16 20:00:00 - [244]
 

Interesting thread. OP I appreciate you sharing it. Only have one thing to add as background.

In the past It was possible to get high faction standings with faction A by tanking your standings with their enemy, faction B. To achieve this, people would train up diplomacy and proceed to accept and then decline missions for a corporation in faction B. Diplomacy would buffer the standings loss to faction B allowing a person to continue accepting and failing missions for a remarkable amount of time.

It turned out that this made it easier to gain faction standing with faction A than actually grinding successful missions with faction A. This also made diplomacy a much more useful skill to use in boosting standings than just about any other social skill. CCP obviously did not like this and several years ago "fixed" it by substantially reducing the faction losses received for declining or failing missions.

It appears the OP has found a way to abuse, uh capitalize on the present mechanic in a way I must say is quite creative. OP has certainly opened my eyes to other possibilities.


RadioControlled
Joint Empire Squad
Posted - 2011.04.16 23:12:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Interesting thread. OP I appreciate you sharing it. Only have one thing to add as background.

In the past It was possible to get high faction standings with faction A by tanking your standings with their enemy, faction B. To achieve this, people would train up diplomacy and proceed to accept and then decline missions for a corporation in faction B. Diplomacy would buffer the standings loss to faction B allowing a person to continue accepting and failing missions for a remarkable amount of time.

It turned out that this made it easier to gain faction standing with faction A than actually grinding successful missions with faction A. This also made diplomacy a much more useful skill to use in boosting standings than just about any other social skill. CCP obviously did not like this and several years ago "fixed" it by substantially reducing the faction losses received for declining or failing missions.

It appears the OP has found a way to abuse, uh capitalize on the present mechanic in a way I must say is quite creative. OP has certainly opened my eyes to other possibilities.



Not quite - failing a mission doesn't increase standings with the opposite faction anymore. That's what CCP changed due to that bug / abuse / whatchamacallit.

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2011.04.17 16:31:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: RadioControlled
Originally by: Patri Andari
Interesting thread. OP I appreciate you sharing it. Only have one thing to add as background.

In the past It was possible to get high faction standings with faction A by tanking your standings with their enemy, faction B. To achieve this, people would train up diplomacy and proceed to accept and then decline missions for a corporation in faction B. Diplomacy would buffer the standings loss to faction B allowing a person to continue accepting and failing missions for a remarkable amount of time.

It turned out that this made it easier to gain faction standing with faction A than actually grinding successful missions with faction A. This also made diplomacy a much more useful skill to use in boosting standings than just about any other social skill. CCP obviously did not like this and several years ago "fixed" it by substantially reducing the faction losses received for declining or failing missions.

It appears the OP has found a way to abuse, uh capitalize on the present mechanic in a way I must say is quite creative. OP has certainly opened my eyes to other possibilities.



Not quite - failing a mission doesn't increase standings with the opposite faction anymore. That's what CCP changed due to that bug / abuse / whatchamacallit.


I think you misread my post.

Try again...sober



Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.04.22 05:48:00 - [247]
 

Some people were saying, "you dont get 500m isk/hour from recon1/3 as you cant get it over and over again"

Its just a figure for comparison.

I could put 8.333333m isk/minute. or 0.13888889m isk/second.

But i hate having so many point blabla. and its hard when ultimately , i want to know which mission contributes the most since the end result is in isk/hour.

Why do more work for nothing

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2011.04.22 10:01:00 - [248]
 

tbh until you post video of making it to 250hr missioning from 1isk then i wouldn't believe it.Technically you could poop in your pants and save time ****ting but we all go to the toilet don't weLaughing

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.22 22:20:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Grozen
tbh until you post video of making it to 250hr missioning from 1isk then i wouldn't believe it.Technically you could poop in your pants and save time ****ting but we all go to the toilet don't weLaughing


He was already perfectly frank that he's not interested in the actual numbers.

Akira Samposeppa
Gallente
Arthashastra
Posted - 2011.04.22 23:08:00 - [250]
 

I really dont understand you people...
..HOW IN HELL DO YOU MANAGE TO EARN SO MUCH IN MISSIONS ?!?!?!
Either much of this are all lies or i am doing something horribly wrong :P

Lets put on side if this is true or not, but even 70M isk/hr is too much in my experience...

In my calculation i earn 40 M isk/hr tops...
with rattlesnake...
at high quality lv4 agent...
and a good(imho) lp to isk price...
And all of my LP skills are at 4...
:P

I sell LP for about 3k isk/lp (if i remember correctly)...
maybe less and there is NO better offer as far as i see...
I spent hours upon hours not doing missions but only sitting in station and resarching LP store :(
-I take imperial navy eanm bpc-s and make them and sell them.


So please explain...
How much would you "i earn 70+ M isk/hr with missions" guys/girls earn if you were missioning with my account?
(skills are meidiocore, i have great skills for ships/modules i use...and great support skills for same)

Coz i simply dont see how can i earn more:P

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.23 00:32:00 - [251]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 23/04/2011 00:34:18
Originally by: Akira Samposeppa

So please explain...
How much would you "i earn 70+ M isk/hr with missions" guys/girls earn if you were missioning with my account?
(skills are meidiocore, i have great skills for ships/modules i use...and great support skills for same)

Coz i simply dont see how can i earn more:P


Cherry pick the missions. Angel Extravaganza is a good mission to run right?

Tengu in AE in 37 minutes for 44.5M isk in bounties, rewards and LP (@3,000 isk/lp.) = 1.2M isk/minute or 72M isk/hour. (This is in raw assets. Time to convert LP to isk is not included.)

Tengu in The Assault - Serpentis in 8.8 minutes for 28.2M isk in bounties rewards and LP (@3,000 isk/lp.) = 3.2M isk/minute or 192M isk/hour. (This is in raw assets. Time to convert LP to isk is not included.)

Overall average is 1.8M isk/minute or 108M isk/hour. And I'm still collecting data, meaning I'm not declining the "bad" missions yet. (Again, this is in raw assets. Time to convert LP to isk is not included.)


Ideally, you would run nothing but The Assault - Serpentis and always decline low paying missions like AE.



Get a spreadsheet, get your faction standings up, bookmark eve-survival and figure out which missions you can blitz for the best isk to time ratio. (Don't forget to include overhead time to convert LP to ISK.)

It also might be a good idea to lower your expectations if everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and decides to cherry pick their missions.



P.S. Did I mention that the above numbers do not include the time to convert the LP to isk?

Mingerdeux
Posted - 2011.04.23 02:25:00 - [252]
 

Why are people so fixated on the time to convert LPs? You do not factor that time into your missioning it's idiotic. LPs are an asset they have an ISK value the time it takes converting them to a module/bpc/ammo does not change this, converting them faster does not get you more ISK.

It's the equivalent of accounting for how long it will take you to get your BPC to a manu station get your modules built and then get them sold. This could take days/weeks depending on how long your contracts are up for, are you honestly going to put all this into your calculations? Lets say you're flying a marauder and salvaging/looting as you go are you going to value what the salvaging gets you based on how long it takes to get to a hub and for the sell orders to clear? No you're not because that's ****ing ******ed.

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2011.04.23 03:06:00 - [253]
 

just got back after a seriously long break :P
unless everything have changed to the insane by doing the best mission in the best ship possible at that time you made 50mill +- at max a hour. and that number would over a entire day go closer to 30mill if you could keep your mind too it and keep doing it the most effective way (which you cant, unless you are a robot man at 10-15 hours a day:P)
personally i need to eat, toilet etc. other life needed stuff while doing so, for me that takes out around 1 hour every 6-10 hours off my mission time (back then).

now that i am back, once i gotten the hands on what is what again i will start doing missions again; if thats true like 400mill a hour xD i would believe missioners eqeupment prices would be sky high, but actually from a quick look all the best items have fallen around 25% since i was here last, so i would think the isk/ hour have gone down since i was here :)

GuyWithADotOnHisHead
Posted - 2011.04.23 04:12:00 - [254]
 

ffs with bumping this pile of ****

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.04.23 09:03:00 - [255]
 

I once made fun of the OP.

Then I actually tried it.

I hereby take back my ridicule. Holy crap, missioning is pretty ridiculously broken if you have high faction standings.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.04.23 11:25:00 - [256]
 

Hello

exploited sensitivity mission completion time outlook to "negative". They changed the triggers such that you need to kill both cruiser and frigate line. Approximate addition of mission time by 1-2 minutes

a minmatar mission, mordus-something 1/2 mission completion time outlook to "negative". They changed from a "random trigger" to "you need to kill everything". Approximate addition of average mission completion time by 30-60 seconds.

Amza Zamaza
Posted - 2011.05.10 11:35:00 - [257]
 

5 minutes blockade? Which faction? Shocked

Hauler Jack
Posted - 2011.05.10 16:28:00 - [258]
 

vs sanshas , totally possible in tengu, just killing triggers, no nasty NPC ewar
vs guristas, never ran that, after jamming adjustments... no
vs serps , just kill triggers, get damped to hell, but being fast and knowing where they spawn helps alot
vs angel... not sure if there is one vs angel

Deerin
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:46:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Amza Zamaza
5 minutes blockade? Which faction? Shocked


It is not so surprising. You get to range and kill trigger ships only. There are 5 waves. So 1 minute per trigger ship(which is understandable). After killing that last Seraphim(For angel version) you'll have a LOT of enemy ships on the field which are trying to catch your tengu (which is 100km away and spewing missiles) in vain.

Elldranga
Posted - 2011.05.18 04:16:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Elldranga on 18/05/2011 04:27:35
meh... bailing from the troll

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.05.18 04:29:00 - [261]
 

1)
The space was minmatar space. There is people in local. and im hostile.
I reject Minmatar blockade, because there are painters. i will do it if local is empty / blue's

2)
Low sec yields almost double LP from high sec.
And amarr/caldari mission LP yields much less then minmatar/gallente LP.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:54:00 - [262]
 

I guess with some factions 1000 isk / lp is viable and possible, but that's an extremely optimistic number. Even SOE only gets like 2000 isk / lp

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.05.18 15:29:00 - [263]
 

Then you havent researched enough.

Syds Sinclair
Posted - 2011.05.18 16:01:00 - [264]
 

..What I got from this thread is that Cypher Jones is a complete moron.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.05.22 22:06:00 - [265]
 

Wow. the new updates opened up quite a few choices for minmatar and amarr agents.

Plus LP values are going crazy right now.
Im not exaggerating if i say im constantly making above 350m isk/hour currently.


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