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blankseplocked Update: 245.7m effective isk/hour Mission running.
 
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Wildthorn Starfire
Posted - 2011.03.09 06:39:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Wildthorn Starfire on 09/03/2011 06:39:39
ughShocked

dont think anyone will try to understand this. sentence like this would be enough - "even while earning LP that is not real isk my earlier earned isk is being sold at the same time into isk, thus giving me real income at missioning time"

tbh i dont get what the fuss is about. it is all mostly how much LP you get for mission and market work. Bad marketing - you get less, found a good spot to sell stuff - i would believe isk/h could spike to 1bil/h... just find who buys things for uber price, thats all.

How much LP in average you get in one h? per mission? (if that is not secret)

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.03.09 12:31:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Sturmwolke
OP, post #59 was very painful to read.


Indeed, I got about 5 words in, and gave up. He's the most decimal-places-having mother****er I've seen in a long time. Although, he is good at copying stuff from Excel.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.09 14:34:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 09/03/2011 14:39:46
Quote:
You are not quite right cipher. You are trying to downplay the isk obtained from LP.


Nope. And im not getting the equation wrong either.

*Income /Time (in minutes x 60) = Isk per hour*




Miss Xoco
Minmatar
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:01:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Miss Xoco on 09/03/2011 15:16:11
I am happy when i only can make 20M a hour doing missions, which is still impossible. Why that is impossible is a easy mathematical formula, it takes to much time to shot them down. Real income is probably 10M a hour, thank you.

6.4 min each mission run time is a dream state, im not sure what fit that is, proably officer in every single slot. I never heard about Missile Launchers being able to do more DPS than any other ship. My Drake for example got 7x T2 Launchers and the DPS is just worse. Besides, my Mach got a speed of 670 m/s and a stable cap of over 4 min with anything enabled, including X-booster. That does even work when all 7 low slots filled up with Gyros and Track Enhancers (just to be able to outdps the unbetable Tengu). Your Tengu is probably not even twice as fast when it comes to movement speed. My Loki for example can reach about 900 m/s that is when i use a faction AB and without module-destroying overload, the Loki should be the fastest or most agile T3. Its kinda like a "supper-huggin" with super web.

Regarding the joining of other corps, it doesnt work that way.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:26:00 - [65]
 

Quote:

Nope. And im not getting the equation wrong either.

*Income /Time (in minutes x 60) = Isk per hour*


im saying your numbers has no meaning.
Afterall, if you say you get 100m isk/hour doing sanctums, it is a blatant lie.

After all, you might get 89,293,100 isk this hour

And 109,285,199 isk next.

I point out that only average isk/hour is meaning ful.

Ie, if n is the number of hours i mission run,
or if n is the number of weeks i mission run,

Then the average isk/hour can only be obtained with a fairly large sample size, ie, when n is large.

Now you try to argue that in my first hour, i wont get isk from LP.

But that does not matter to me. Afterall, when i run missions more and more (as my n increases), my isk/hour CONVERGES to the numbers i give in the front page.

The proof is as given before. Given A is isk/hour and B is from LP isk, and there is a time difference of 1 unit(week,day,hour,minute,anything)

Then since average isk obtain, isk 1st unit isk+2nd unit isk + 3rd unit isk...
IE: [A+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B......]/n
F(n)= nA/n+(n-1)B/n = A + (n-1)B/n = A+B-B/n
Hence when n tends to infinite,
the average isk/hour tends to A+B-B/n, but B/n tends to 0
So average isk/hour tends to A+B. QED.

Afterall, sometimes i might get 4 "smash the supplier" in a row. awesome.

Sometimes i might get 4 "the score" in the row. which is suky.

Only long term average matters. Your one-isk/hour-suit-all is too a flawed number to be used.

Sandrestal
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:33:00 - [66]
 

In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now?

Derelicht
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:41:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Sandrestal
In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now?


No, we require updates about the new figure being 12b/hour. Nice find, though.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:43:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Straight Edged
Quote:

Nope. And im not getting the equation wrong either.

*Income /Time (in minutes x 60) = Isk per hour*


im saying your numbers has no meaning.
Afterall, if you say you get 100m isk/hour doing sanctums, it is a blatant lie.

After all, you might get 89,293,100 isk this hour

And 109,285,199 isk next.

I point out that only average isk/hour is meaning ful.

Ie, if n is the number of hours i mission run,
or if n is the number of weeks i mission run,

Then the average isk/hour can only be obtained with a fairly large sample size, ie, when n is large.

Now you try to argue that in my first hour, i wont get isk from LP.

But that does not matter to me. Afterall, when i run missions more and more (as my n increases), my isk/hour CONVERGES to the numbers i give in the front page.

The proof is as given before. Given A is isk/hour and B is from LP isk, and there is a time difference of 1 unit(week,day,hour,minute,anything)

Then since average isk obtain, isk 1st unit isk+2nd unit isk + 3rd unit isk...
IE: [A+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B......]/n
F(n)= nA/n+(n-1)B/n = A + (n-1)B/n = A+B-B/n
Hence when n tends to infinite,
the average isk/hour tends to A+B-B/n, but B/n tends to 0
So average isk/hour tends to A+B. QED.

Afterall, sometimes i might get 4 "smash the supplier" in a row. awesome.

Sometimes i might get 4 "the score" in the row. which is suky.

Only long term average matters. Your one-isk/hour-suit-all is too a flawed number to be used.


At this point I am just going to come out and say either english is not your first language or you do not understand the very simple equation I posted.

For example you claimed you make 12b a month playing an hour a day. Thats 400m an hour over the course of a month. Its not the first hour, its the entire month.

Quote:
im saying your numbers has no meaning.


The only number I used was 60, to represent how many minutes are in an hour. Its not even close to "has no meaning".


stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:44:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Sandrestal
In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now?



You must have missed the part where the OP stated: "After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space"


Sandrestal
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:52:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Sandrestal
In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now?



You must have missed the part where the OP stated: "After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space"




As soon as I get 800 Gila BPC's I'll resubmit my findings. I suspect the end result per hour will be the same....if Eve is still around tho Wink













Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:59:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Sandrestal
As soon as I get 800 Gila BPC's I'll resubmit my findings.
Don't forget to include all the other instances when you did the same thing but didn't get a BPC.
Quote:
I suspect the end result per hour will be the same
Unlikely.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:04:00 - [72]
 

Quote:
153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week
246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week
338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week
430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week
522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week<---------


and i did answered the question somewhere before.
Because the hub i was playing in had access to a trade hub, I was able to push 5-7K isk per LP.

If you realise, maybe if you can find 1 year data for item prices.

There is one item which was driven from less then 50,000 ISK to 300,000 ISK today. That particular drop item, enabled me to change millions worth of LP at an insanely good LP conversion.

Good luck.


Psychotic Maniac
Caldari
Head Shrinkers
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:27:00 - [73]
 

^"was" sounds much different the "is".

cause you're full of ship. p=t

Loraine Gess
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:44:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Straight Edged
Quote:
153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week
246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week
338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week
430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week
522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week<---------


and i did answered the question somewhere before.
Because the hub i was playing in had access to a trade hub, I was able to push 5-7K isk per LP.

If you realise, maybe if you can find 1 year data for item prices.

There is one item which was driven from less then 50,000 ISK to 300,000 ISK today. That particular drop item, enabled me to change millions worth of LP at an insanely good LP conversion.

Good luck.





5-run IN EANMS and FN webs? Yeah, anybody with half a brain can see that.

Sandrestal
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:45:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sandrestal
As soon as I get 800 Gila BPC's I'll resubmit my findings.
Don't forget to include all the other instances when you did the same thing but didn't get a BPC.



Yes and don't forget:
Time in station (low sec) spinning while gankers are about
Time to manufacture LP into something useful
Time to haul useful LP item to place where peeps will buy it

Also after looking at OP's 2nd link of times, I see, for instance, 3 missions all completing on same day and same hour and same minute tic. That is indeed fast and wish my tengu could do as well. Rolling Eyes

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.09 18:08:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Sandrestal


Yes and don't forget:
Time in station (low sec) spinning while gankers are about
Time to manufacture LP into something useful
Time to haul useful LP item to place where peeps will buy it


Unprobable Tengu and insta-warp station bookmarks.

BPCs can be sold instead of selling the manufactured items.

Hauling is handled by Red Frog Freight. (Cryptically referred to as rffeight by the OP.)

The OP isn't as bat**** crazy as people first think.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:41:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 09/03/2011 22:41:01
Originally by: stoicfaux

Hauling is handled by Red Frog Freight. (Cryptically referred to as rffeight by the OP.)



I didn't realize they hauled into and out of low sec.

Quote:
The OP isn't as bat**** crazy as people first think.


Oh no, he really really is. Laughing

-Liang


AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:38:00 - [78]
 

To use rf freight, use the following technique (only for one-ship-play)
Quote:

While mission running, abuse your remote market skills to put up market orders
While mission running, abuse your remote market/contract skills to sell your items
Now, use rffreight to move our tags/items/ between the

In order to change LP, first enter your station. Use your stockpile tag/item to get your LP store items. (with the new lp store, this takes 30secs-1 minute)

Use your transport ship to transport it to the nearest high sec factory(i ussualy take around 8 minutes both ways).

Move back to the mission hub, while remote making your items, if necessary (0 seconds)
Leave your items in the high sec station, and take tags from that high sec station.

Now while mission running, enter rffreight channel and begin freighting items to hub, and tags from hub to that station

So the total cost of changing 1 million LP, worth 2 billion isk, is only 2-20m (contract), and takes only 8+1 minute.
However 1 million LP is 10-11 hours or 600-660 minutes worth of mission, of which 9 minute is very insignificant (less then +0.1 per mission)


Royaldo
Gallente
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:51:00 - [79]
 

Good damned noob, Im making over 700m isk pr hour running lvl4's in high sec.


Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.10 10:57:00 - [80]
 

looks about right, all about getting the right agent

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.10 14:11:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 09/03/2011 22:41:01
Originally by: stoicfaux

Hauling is handled by Red Frog Freight. (Cryptically referred to as rffeight by the OP.)



I didn't realize they hauled into and out of low sec.


I doubt they do, but since the OP didn't include loot numbers (meaning that loot isn't being transported to a trade hub,) and since the OP is using remote buy/sell orders, I'm assuming that he's hopping into a high sec region to setup his orders/freight. (Or his agents are in a region with a high sec route.)


Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.10 17:41:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux

Originally by: Liang Nuren
I didn't realize they hauled into and out of low sec.


I doubt they do, but since the OP didn't include loot numbers (meaning that loot isn't being transported to a trade hub,) and since the OP is using remote buy/sell orders, I'm assuming that he's hopping into a high sec region to setup his orders/freight. (Or his agents are in a region with a high sec route.)


@Liang

Black Frog (a division of Red Frog) does low-sec, but yes, as per stoicfaux you just need the tags transported to the nearest NPC corp station (from the major hub) for conversion and manufacture. The market stuffs and freighting would probably be better done obviously with a dual-boxed alt, as the OP has a few chars to spare.

The OP's mission timings are razor cut, I seriously doubt any serious opportunity for any sort of minor/major looting the NPC wrecks. The only possible worthwhile ones are those missions that drop faction tags, but I won't be surprised if he did analysis to confirm if it was indeed worthwhile. So to summarize, he won't be needing any major lowsec to highsec hauling.

So what remains, is just moving the mission runnner char once in a while once a decent amount of LP has been accumulated.
But, I'm sure you're already familiar with all the steps in the process Very Happy .. so duh ..!

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.10 18:31:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Sturmwolke
@Liang


I don't doubt that such results are possible. My only complaints with the OP:
- Holy **** man, get a ****ing life. He got ... was it 10 storylines/day for 3-4 weeks on end or some bull****? Shocked
- I despise all the people saying that the only way to PVE in low sec is in a ****ing unscannable Tengu. People were grinding missions in low sec for years before the introduction of unscannable Tengus.
- There is nothing that makes the Tengu a prerequisite to get these kinds of results. It is more a result of missioning in a certain style in a certain place.

WRT RFF, I was just saying that it would be prohibitive to mass export **** from low sec... so that wasn't what he was doing. I didn't bring it up, don't care about it really, and am well aware of Black Frog. ;-) Besides the occasional trip to a mission hub is pretty small potatoes for time sinks... and may not even be a time sink depending on how and why you do it.

-Liang

The Old Chap
Posted - 2011.03.10 18:57:00 - [84]
 

Mine is bigger than yours...

ner ner ni ner ner.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.10 19:12:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: The Old Chap
Mine is bigger than yours...

ner ner ni ner ner.


Bigger isn't better if you can't get it up, Old Man.


Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.03.10 19:18:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
And where is the time it takes you to actually gather the tags/sell the items you get from your LP... that counts too you know.


Adn don't forget the time it takes to lift that beer or burrito to your lips, or pee into that jar beneath your desk. That counts, too!! ISK is ISK!!!

Garbad theWeak
Posted - 2011.03.10 20:52:00 - [87]
 

I've kept a lot of stats in various isk earning pve content. I've also done a lot of min maxing and planning to get to the perfect combinations I know of. Suffice it to say that there are things out there that are much better than people think.

However, the market tends to be efficient. The reality is people don't actually regularly make 5000 isk/lp. If you run for ****ty caldari navy, expect more like 650. If you run for most navies, expect more like 900. For BPs/FW and such, maybe 2k. For pirate, expect lower volume and say 2-3k. And as with all things, if it has big profits its got some reason that makes it crap (difficult logistics/standings grind, higher risk, tediously boring, have to be a member of a 0.0 circlejerk, and so on).

TL;DR - run a good high sec l4 and earn 100 mil and/or buy plexes.

That's the best solution for 95% of the world. For the dedicated grizzlybears, many of us make 250+ mil an hour, but we paid the price in expertise to get where we are. And honestly, its just one more fun thing to do getting there. If its not your thing to find it/ride your niche, see the TL;DR.

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.11 00:06:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 00:14:10
Some mission allows you to make a quick meal or a quick pee.

For example, worlds collide (aproximately 60 seconds free time) , damsel in distress (approximately 100 seconds free time) etc.

By using a wireless laptop, you can take a dump without reducing your isk/hour


And secondly, at the same hub, tengu has the better average-completion-time-of-high-isk/hour-acceptable missions which i list in excel.
Of course having both in better, but im not going to bother doing Angel extravaganza/silence informant just because im in a mach. Its a waste of isk/hour. Any sane person knows those are low isk/hour missions no matter how fast you complete it.

Even if you downplay tengu's superior agility, damage projection, locking time, and unprobeability, it is still the better mission ship on average.


Crackann
Posted - 2011.03.11 04:41:00 - [89]
 

The funny thing about this is that a Tengu is not even a great lvl 4 mission runner. It can do them, but not faster than any of the top-notch mission BSs like CNR, Nightmare, etc.. That is enough to call BS on the whole thing.

For people who want to know about mission running isk for real, there was a very good thread on this topic a little while back from a guy who ran a pure gank setup in Golem, blitzed all possible missions, and came up with I believe something like 60m/hr. That is realistic for a high DPS setup.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.11 05:07:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Crackann
The funny thing about this is that a Tengu is not even a great lvl 4 mission runner. It can do them, but not faster than any of the top-notch mission BSs like CNR, Nightmare, etc.. That is enough to call BS on the whole thing.

For people who want to know about mission running isk for real, there was a very good thread on this topic a little while back from a guy who ran a pure gank setup in Golem, blitzed all possible missions, and came up with I believe something like 60m/hr. That is realistic for a high DPS setup.


when it comes to pure blitzing the tengu is pretty damn far out ahead. between the agility, speed, tank, and dps it just does things!

as for general mission running like the way most highsec players do then yes I'd rather take the cnr/nightmare/ect


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