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Caldariftw123
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:17:00 - [61]
 

I believe the point is to get a final figure based on what REAL people ACTUALLY buy. He cannot simulate this by plugging in random "what if I sell 3 on tuesday and 47 on friday" he is trying to see what the "weighted" interest rate is, which will be calcuated based on bond purchase numbers and days.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:27:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Caldariftw123
I believe the point is to get a final figure based on what REAL people ACTUALLY buy. He cannot simulate this by plugging in random "what if I sell 3 on tuesday and 47 on friday" he is trying to see what the "weighted" interest rate is, which will be calcuated based on bond purchase numbers and days.


and right now I can also quote

Quote:
5,072 Bonds Available


On an offering I was doing if I was doing one.

Where are the real people interested in this?


Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:39:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Breaker77

Where are the real people interested in this?





Real People trade in the BSAC Stock Exchange.



Molic Blackbird
Gallente
Orion Faction Industries
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:42:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Breaker77

Where are the real people interested in this?



I would have bought it out already, but I want the effective interest rate as high as possible in case its used as future guide as to where the interest rate should be set.

Katie Tanaka
Posted - 2011.03.10 06:11:00 - [65]
 

This is just a rather unusual way to model a bond auction.

A typical auction for a short-term debt security (say a US Treasury bill, also a zero-coupon bond) will involve an issuer announcing the size of the issue, the maturity and other relevant terms, then market participants will - within a short window - bid on the basis of a price discounted from par. Since you know the maturity, you're effecting bidding for yield.

In a Treasury bill auction, it's a uniform-price auction so the highest winning yield is that one at which the whole issue is sold to the bidders; but that needn't be the case - in a multiple-price auction, the bids are paid out highest-price-first therefore giving variable yield across the issue.

The difference here is that instead of maintaining the duration and varying the price in order to vary the yield, the OP is varying the duration and maintaining the price. The principle is exactly the same since all that matters from the investor perspective is yield (well normally there'd be some credit risk, but this is EVE...)

I have to wonder how useful variable-duration funding is for the issuer, though!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:13:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 10/03/2011 09:13:57
Originally by: Block Ukx

I’m not a financial expert, and I’m not a professional software developer. There are no testers or dev personnel; it is just me. I do my best to ensure everything is working correctly, but mistakes have happened and there have been errors.



Let's frame the whole thing in a constructive manner.

1) Imho you have issues with English similar to mine. While my tongue has zillions of terms, they apply with a lot of precision while still leaving room for feelings to perspire out, expecially in writing.
English has far less terms and complexity, and the semantics seem to come out of the whole sentence and the little sub-units of it (those 2-3 tied words used everywhere).
It's difficult at best for someone who never lived in UK / USA to know how the mental process the guys living there exactly use to shape those sentences.
Therefore you will see people like me talking a sort of apparently decent English but grievous misunderstandings and errors WILL happen.

2) Due to 1) and due to you just not mentioning it, you did not split the matter in the two branches it should:

2a) The programming side.

2b) The human feedback side.



2a) Had you been a SW developer you'd probably found useful these paradigms:

- Unit testing
This is useful expecially for hardening code "by contract". There are unit testing suites of all flavours (free and not), languages (including C# and PHP...) and OSes (Windows, Unix...).

- Monte Carlo Analysis
Also available in Excel, this is useful to model a massively huge amount of permutations of equation terms. Since BSAC players are a minority of a niche game, it makes sense to simulate more situations than even all your clients together would ever conceive.


2b) A potential buyer of yours and not you clearly expressed here what this whole testing is about:

Originally by: Molic Blackbird

I would have bought it out already, but I want the effective interest rate as high as possible in case its used as future guide as to where the interest rate should be set.



This is exactly the kind of behavior Block Ukx is after: people who want to invest but want to wait exactly the perceived best moment to do so.
This is also possible to model via math terms, because people will indeed invest in a Gaussian distribution centered around the optimal value. What's not possible to model is the profile of the outliers, the reasons why they invested in that odd period could be worth to learn.


RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.10 10:13:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha


2) Due to 1) and due to you just not mentioning it, you did not split the matter in the two branches it should:

2a) The programming side.

2b) The human feedback side.




This was more or less the conclusion I came to as well. I'm still not convinced that research into 2b) is a good reason to ask people to risk their isk on an investment but that is another matter.

Generally, I wasn't aware that English was not Block's first language. If that is the case then it explains a great deal in terms of apparent lack of clarity in communication. Having spent years living in countries where I either speak the language badly or not at all I have nothing but respect for anyone who attains even a communicable level of my own language (perhaps my standards are a bit low because Brits are terrible at learning other languages). However, it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them, where possible, in order to avoid miscommunication.

Katie Tanaka
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:11:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Katie Tanaka on 10/03/2011 11:11:42
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
This is also possible to model via math terms, because people will indeed invest in a Gaussian distribution centered around the optimal value. What's not possible to model is the profile of the outliers, the reasons why they invested in that odd period could be worth to learn.


What does 'optimal value' mean here? Why would they invest in a Gaussian distribution centred around it? Why do Monte Carlo methods even come into the discussion?

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.03.10 19:03:00 - [69]
 

Well

1. The optimal buy in point is that point which maximizes ROI while minimizes risk. With set rate of return, closed ended bond the optimal point is the very last day that a bond can be purchased which is April 8th.

2. "This is exactly the kind of behavior Block Ukx is after: people who want to invest but want to wait exactly the perceived best moment to do so.
This is also possible to model via math terms, because people will indeed invest in a Gaussian distribution centered around the optimal value. What's not possible to model is the profile of the outliers, the reasons why they invested in that odd period could be worth to learn."

Except of course people being people you won't actually get that kind of data. Some people will learn of the bond issue late. Some people won't get off the fence and actually make a decision. Some people will just have bad timing and won't have the cash available at the time they actually wish to buy. Some people will realize that April 8th is the best time to buy in if you are going to buy in. And some people, me as an example, just can't be arsed to do it at all.

IMO There isn't actually all that much financial modeling going on. Nor even social or people modeling going on. What is going on is a reflection of the current levels of trust by MD'ers towards Block and BSAC. Those that buy in will have varying levels of trust towards Block and BSAC and their buy in amounts will reflect that. Some won't and won't buy in at all. In effect Block is assembling the details of a cadre of investors that have trust in him. Those that only buy 1 bond @ 1 mil will have enough trust to buy in, but just a toenail's worth. Those that go for 1bil or more have more trust in Block.

If the intent is to winnow through the list of potential investors and assemble a list of actual investors for a 2.0 project, then this is actually not only an extremely good idea but something short of brilliant.

Which tickles my funny bone to no end at all. Very Happy

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.10 19:51:00 - [70]
 



First people attack my integrity, now is my posting style and my English. What’s next, my ethnicity?


Perhaps my short posting is due to the hostility towards BSAC. I don’t mind critics and I do appreciate constructive comments, but it gets tiring to continue reading comments like:

“Surely you are not that disorganized”
“Ok ill be the first one to yell SCAM”
“Good grief, you must be joking!”
“Reputation counts for nothing”
“pathetic, truly pathetic”
“Give it up, Block. You're doing yourself a disservice”
“most stupid reason I have yet to see in MD”
“running a huge ponzi scheme”
“frankly tells me that you don't seem to understand”
“my gut instinct on an offer like this says that it's a scam”
“it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them”



@VV
You are assuming that peoples’ investments can be model with a Gaussian distribution. So far, the data I have collected suggests that the investment profile cannot be fitted using a Gaussian. My goal is to use <R30> as a measure of future interest rates.





PS I’m sorry if you can’t understand my English. My translator is broken and the “native speaker” is out of town.

Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
Posted - 2011.03.10 19:53:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Zeta Zhul

What is going on is a reflection of the current levels of trust by MD'ers towards Block and BSAC. Those that buy in will have varying levels of trust towards Block and BSAC and their buy in amounts will reflect that. Some won't and won't buy in at all. In effect Block is assembling the details of a cadre of investors that have trust in him. Those that only buy 1 bond @ 1 mil will have enough trust to buy in, but just a toenail's worth. Those that go for 1bil or more have more trust in Block.



I think you are forgetting that Block already has at least a couple of hundred billion in deposits from investors, and if he was planning to use the information in the way you have described he could easily just look at his investor list, rather than starting a new bond.

Anyone who has already invested in his cash reserve (presently circa 160B isk) would rather leave their money there than remove it and put it somewhere else (for exactly the same rate of interest).

RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.10 20:17:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx


First people attack my integrity, now is my posting style and my English. What’s next, my ethnicity?


Perhaps my short posting is due to the hostility towards BSAC. I don’t mind critics and I do appreciate constructive comments, but it gets tiring to continue reading comments like:

“Surely you are not that disorganized”
“Ok ill be the first one to yell SCAM”
“Good grief, you must be joking!”
“Reputation counts for nothing”
“pathetic, truly pathetic”
“Give it up, Block. You're doing yourself a disservice”
“most stupid reason I have yet to see in MD”
“running a huge ponzi scheme”
“frankly tells me that you don't seem to understand”
“my gut instinct on an offer like this says that it's a scam”
“it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them”



@VV
You are assuming that peoples’ investments can be model with a Gaussian distribution. So far, the data I have collected suggests that the investment profile cannot be fitted using a Gaussian. My goal is to use <R30> as a measure of future interest rates.





PS I’m sorry if you can’t understand my English. My translator is broken and the “native speaker” is out of town.



Rolling Eyes
No one's attacking your English but you surely realise that a lack of clarity is a problem? If you don't explain things properly it is entirely unreasonable of you to expect everyone else to just assume the best. You could have avoided a lot of the problems in this thread by clearly explaining why you were asking the public for isk. Your English is actually very good, which is why I hadn't suspected you might not be a native speaker previously. But if you are not a native speaker it would explain why you often think that you have answered things adequately when you have not. Construing the suggestion that you get someone to look over your explanations as an attack, on the other hand, cannot be put down to an imprefect understanding of nuance. That just reflects arrogance.

tl;dr - You explain things very poorly and if people react badly to those poor explanations and you take no action to remedy the quality of the explanations, then you have no-one but yourself to blame for the reactions you will continue to receive.

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.10 20:48:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx

“Surely you are not that disorganized”
“Ok ill be the first one to yell SCAM”
“Good grief, you must be joking!”
“Reputation counts for nothing”
“pathetic, truly pathetic”
“Give it up, Block. You're doing yourself a disservice”
“most stupid reason I have yet to see in MD”
“running a huge ponzi scheme”
“frankly tells me that you don't seem to understand”
“my gut instinct on an offer like this says that it's a scam”
“it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them”




So poor explanations on my part deserve this type of response?


Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
Posted - 2011.03.10 20:53:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Block Ukx

“Surely you are not that disorganized”
“Ok ill be the first one to yell SCAM”
“Good grief, you must be joking!”
“Reputation counts for nothing”
“pathetic, truly pathetic”
“Give it up, Block. You're doing yourself a disservice”
“most stupid reason I have yet to see in MD”
“running a huge ponzi scheme”
“frankly tells me that you don't seem to understand”
“my gut instinct on an offer like this says that it's a scam”
“it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them”




So poor explanations on my part deserve this type of response?




I haven't been keeping up as well as I should be, but I think it might have to do with your refusal to be audited by a 3rd party, cryptic responses to questions, starting a 10b bond to "test code", and a bald character portrait (95% of villains are bald)

Hope that helps, GL !

RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:10:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: RAW23 on 10/03/2011 21:10:22
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Block Ukx

...
“it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them”




So poor explanations on my part deserve this type of response?




That last one, yes, although it's not a case of you 'deserving' it. It was meant to be a constructive suggestion.

As to the others, some of them were responses that took your initial explanation at face value without understanding the other, thus far unexplained, elements of what you were doing. As such, they had some reason to be critical as they assumed the incomplete explanation was a complete one. The ponzi scheme and scam claims are, in my opinion, less reasonable as there is no solid evidence for this. However, given that some people have certain concerns about your wider business, this thread, with the limited explanation initially given (essentially, 'I would like 10bil to try out some code') seemed to play straight into the hands of those accusations. This is not to condone such ungrounded accusations but given that I think there are some reasonable grounds for being at least slightly suspicious, although I'm beginning to suspect that many of these grounds may have arisen from precisly the sort of communication issues seen in this thread rather than any actual intent to be evasive/deceptive, the way that this thread was handled almost invited their repetition.

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:16:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: RAW23
I'm beginning to suspect that many of these grounds may have arisen from precisly the sort of communication issues seen in this thread rather than any actual intent to be evasive/deceptive


:facepalm:

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:37:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Block Ukx on 10/03/2011 21:38:49
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 10/03/2011 21:10:22
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23

it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them




So poor explanations on my part deserve this type of response?




That last one, yes, although it's not a case of you 'deserving' it. It was meant to be a constructive suggestion.




I see. So, only native speakers can communicate flawlessly.



Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:42:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
I see. So, only native speakers can communicate flawlessly.




Unless they're left-handed, or ginger.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:50:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: RAW23 on 10/03/2011 21:50:47
Originally by: Block Ukx
Edited by: Block Ukx on 10/03/2011 21:38:49
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 10/03/2011 21:10:22
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23

it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them




So poor explanations on my part deserve this type of response?




That last one, yes, although it's not a case of you 'deserving' it. It was meant to be a constructive suggestion.




I see. So, only native speakers can communicate flawlessly.





No idea where you got that from but you are more likely to find a native speaker who can get the various nuances than a non-native speaker. My wife is a non-native speaker who lived and worked in the UK for 12 years, acquiring a Ph.D. and teaching in some of the country's top universities. She writes books in English that are published by UK publishing houses. She and I still end up having arguments that have their roots in one of us failing to convey some detail of English properly to the other.

My point is not the chauvanistic claim that only native speakers will be able to do a good enough job for these forums. To focus on my mention of native speakers is again to miss the point (as well as the nuance conveyed by 'may' which is not the same as to say that you must use a native speaker and only a native speaker). Just get someone who is better than you to help.

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:58:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Just get someone who is better than you to help.



Yes, and according to you a native speaker is better than me. According to you, a native speaker can communicate more effectively than a non-native speaker. This type of discrimination practice is not tolerated in the US.

Should I get a native UK speaker or a native US speaker?


Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:11:00 - [81]
 

Block, go grab a smoke or a coffee or something and relax a little.

I speak English and Welsh. If I were to name my house "Ty Bach" which would be "little house" I would get laughed at by native welsh speakers. Why? Simply because outside toilets were and are referred to as the "little house" or "Ty Bach".

The words I use are correct (my house is little) but they have a different meaning to that which I intended. Until someone were to explain that to me I'd get seriously ****ed off with them and think nasty things about them.


This is why people are saying that there could well be some unintended misunderstanding coming from the fact that you are not a native speaker. (I wouldn't have guessed though :)

RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:17:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23
Just get someone who is better than you to help.



Yes, and according to you a native speaker is better than me. According to you, a native speaker can communicate more effectively than a non-native speaker. This type of discrimination practice is not tolerated in the US.

Should I get a native UK speaker or a native US speaker?



Dear god! Are you trolling me or do you really not get the sense of what I just posted?

Some native speakers will be better than you, some will not. Some non-native speakers will be better than you and some will not. The only thing that matters is that you get SOMEONE who is better than you to help you out because you are clearly missing half of what is being posted in your direction.

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:55:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: RAW23
However, it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them, where possible, in order to avoid miscommunication.


Well, apparently you don’t seem to understand what I’m posting. It must be that I’m not using a native speaker. Please, could someone translate for me?


Some forms of discrimination are very subtle. Your implication that I should get a native speaker because he will be better at expressing my point is considered a discriminatory practice. Yes, very subtle, but discriminatory nonetheless.

@CCP,
I hope you are reading this and take some action. The last thing you want is to condone such practice, particularly in a game that is played by people of all different ethnical backgrounds. I don’t know in Iceland, but in the US, this is consider discrimination.



RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:03:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23
However, it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them, where possible, in order to avoid miscommunication.


Well, apparently you don’t seem to understand what I’m posting. It must be that I’m not using a native speaker. Please, could someone translate for me?


Some forms of discrimination are very subtle. Your implication that I should get a native speaker because he will be better at expressing my point is considered a discriminatory practice. Yes, very subtle, but discriminatory nonetheless.

@CCP,
I hope you are reading this and take some action. The last thing you want is to condone such practice, particularly in a game that is played by people of all different ethnical backgrounds. I don’t know in Iceland, but in the US, this is consider discrimination.




Heh - you should have held back a little. Obvious troll is obvious.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:05:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 10/03/2011 23:10:34
So then, what do you mean by needing 10 billion space dollars to test code?

What is your use case? You do not need to master english to explain this adequately. So far, you have not explained this at all.

edit to add/clarify:

Why do you need to use actual ISK and not just numbers plugged into your code?

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:09:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23
However, it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them, where possible, in order to avoid miscommunication.


Well, apparently you don’t seem to understand what I’m posting. It must be that I’m not using a native speaker. Please, could someone translate for me?


Some forms of discrimination are very subtle. Your implication that I should get a native speaker because he will be better at expressing my point is considered a discriminatory practice. Yes, very subtle, but discriminatory nonetheless.

@CCP,
I hope you are reading this and take some action. The last thing you want is to condone such practice, particularly in a game that is played by people of all different ethnical backgrounds. I don’t know in Iceland, but in the US, this is consider discrimination.




Heh - you should have held back a little. Obvious troll is obvious.



No, I am very serious about it, and I hope you get a temporary ban.
Discriminatory practices should not be tolerated anywhere.


RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:21:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23
However, it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them, where possible, in order to avoid miscommunication.


Well, apparently you don’t seem to understand what I’m posting. It must be that I’m not using a native speaker. Please, could someone translate for me?


Some forms of discrimination are very subtle. Your implication that I should get a native speaker because he will be better at expressing my point is considered a discriminatory practice. Yes, very subtle, but discriminatory nonetheless.

@CCP,
I hope you are reading this and take some action. The last thing you want is to condone such practice, particularly in a game that is played by people of all different ethnical backgrounds. I don’t know in Iceland, but in the US, this is consider discrimination.




Heh - you should have held back a little. Obvious troll is obvious.



No, I am very serious about it, and I hope you get a temporary ban.
Discriminatory practices should not be tolerated anywhere.




Better report me then.
LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:29:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23
Just get someone who is better than you to help.



Yes, and according to you a native speaker is better than me. According to you, a native speaker can communicate more effectively than a non-native speaker. This type of discrimination practice is not tolerated in the US.

Should I get a native UK speaker or a native US speaker?




1. You are very close to going into an area that can only result in tears.

2. You're using UK & American native speakers as examples? Aren't you aware of the old adage Americans and Brits are divided by a common langauge?

3. Yes there are nuances to language that can only be conferred by someone who is fluent. If you can't confer those nuances then that will impede communication. It's called "reality".

4. How dare you include me in that list!? Your explanations were abysmal, laughable and grossly inadequate. You don't like it? Tough, I can't care less what you do or do not like. You explanations c.f. testing software are still so completely laughable that they don't pass the smell test. The alternative explanations have been forwarded simply because your original explanation was so inadequate.

Really I'm starting to get a bit irritated by this.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:32:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Block Ukx

“Surely you are not that disorganized”
“Ok ill be the first one to yell SCAM”
“Good grief, you must be joking!”
“Reputation counts for nothing”
“pathetic, truly pathetic”
“Give it up, Block. You're doing yourself a disservice”
“most stupid reason I have yet to see in MD”
“running a huge ponzi scheme”
“frankly tells me that you don't seem to understand”
“my gut instinct on an offer like this says that it's a scam”
“it may be worth passing explanations through a native speaker before posting them”




So poor explanations on my part deserve this type of response?




Heh .. even when people are trying to "reach an olive branch out to you" so to speak, you turn arrogant, hostile, evasive and rude .. RAW has been infinitely patient with you through all the threads debating your business so far, if people have any respect left for you after this ridiculous exchange ("discrimination" wtf are you on about boy) I'd be very surprised .. you really should not be the 'face of BSAC' because you give that business a BAD name.

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.03.10 23:35:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Lauren Hellfury
Block, go grab a smoke or a coffee or something and relax a little.

I speak English and Welsh. If I were to name my house "Ty Bach" which would be "little house" I would get laughed at by native welsh speakers. Why? Simply because outside toilets were and are referred to as the "little house" or "Ty Bach".

The words I use are correct (my house is little) but they have a different meaning to that which I intended. Until someone were to explain that to me I'd get seriously ****ed off with them and think nasty things about them.


This is why people are saying that there could well be some unintended misunderstanding coming from the fact that you are not a native speaker. (I wouldn't have guessed though :)


Google "buick lacrosse canada" and look at the examples there.

Slang, cultural idioms, etc. All are conferred more precisely by native speakers who have lived in that culture.


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