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blankseplocked Incursion : the elitist snobbery of EVE
 
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Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.03.05 03:15:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Victor Valka
I think I remember reading something like this... on WoW forums. ugh


Well there IS that WoW mindset where you dont want a challenge so instead of bringing even leveled (here read: fitted) guys, you bring in the most OP crew yoo can so the guys just starting out are ****ed for a while to come

Rens Cheque
Posted - 2011.03.05 05:47:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Rens Cheque on 05/03/2011 05:48:17
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
hate to say this but theirs a reason for this ...

Since Incursions launched theres normally 2 fleets for the final incursion room.... an armor and a shield fleet... and the fact is especially in hisec ones, theres always a strong showing of people... but only the first X (i think 100) in the fleet matter, because once it goes over that number the fleet even if it wins gets 0 reward... so what happens is the FC's for the 2 fleets tend to start throwing people out with the incorrect fit to be replaced with higher DPS ships, why? because your t1 fit ship wont add as much DPS as a torp raven fully t2 fit, so your little drake gets thrown out or you raven t1 fit gets thrown out...

this is so that they can keep the fleet under the #, and so that they can also have enough DPS to try to outpace the competing fleet...

Its the same in the smaller site fleets, but not as stringent, because the # of people still matters, but honestly the small sites arent normally a DPS race like the SC battle is.
You're partially right, but mostly wrong. What you described is maybe what you would expect to be happening, but it is not what is actually happening. I would say it's pretty much the opposite. FCs are more stringent about fittings for Vanguards because they want a good fleet that can blitz them quickly, and then for the mom they need to struggle to get enough pilots often and will take anyone.

There are normally 2 large fleets for the mothership fight, 1 shield and 1 armor, but from everything I've seen they will accept whoever wants to fly so that they can try to outdamage the other "team" and "win" the mom fight - regardless of reward (and the mom site is more forgiving of having too many pilots anyway).

The incursions start off with people being very picky about their fleets, but by the time the mom shows up, both sides are throwing together whatever pilots they can find to try to outdamage the other side.

This is getting a little more under control after the recent wave of griefers at the incursions causing FCs to be more careful about who they allow into fleet to avoid getting the whole logi chain killed. But then it is more about who you can trust to not be a griefer than it is about being picky about ship fits for the mothership fight.

Fulmar Muse
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.05 07:35:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Fulmar Muse on 05/03/2011 07:40:33
Edited by: Fulmar Muse on 05/03/2011 07:37:46
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Ragnaarak
I have been on four successful Vanguard fleets, with older versions of my ship, and yet when i try to join a fleet rather than start my own i get snobbed because my 'fit' isnt picture perfect, eg tech 2, and people start critising.
Well hey my pilot isnt that old and getting tech 2 skills take time.
Till then i fight hard, i do damage to the enemy and i carry different modules in my huge cargo bay so i switch them round as needed..
Frankly all the elitist bastards that demand perfect fits for any fleet in Incursion need to realise that people want to play the game, so give people a chance FFS.

You asked for better PVE content, you got it.
Now deal with it.


hehe

correct, also i dont see wats wrong with sanctums and missions.. also WH,,, wtf.

arnt incursions big waste of time, big white elephant stylee

muse

edit: in fact there's soooo much to do solo/pve/group pve, ever heard of scan probes OP?.. theres so much in fact, that I barely have time to pvp, wat with all this pve to do

another edit: they should have brought out an expansion that focused on railguns/hybrids... imagine the love they'd get. i suppose they have millions of playrs to lure in from the grind *****s from adjacent other MMOs....

MOAR ROKH PLZ CCP!!! :)

Aesynil
Caldari
The Unit...
Posted - 2011.03.05 07:45:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Aesynil on 05/03/2011 08:05:30
To be entirely honest, if you do not have high enough resists and enough buffer, you are a liability. I've flown enough logistics, I immediately recognize who is using a sub-par fit, because they drop into hull almost immediately, and start frantically asking for reps while complaining at the Logi Squad (Not always, mind you, but it happens). If your fit causes this, you will not be fleeted, and if you Are fleeted, you're going to finish one vanguard an hour, most likely :) With lots of deaths.

Now, I'm going to assume that this is not the case, that your tank is optimal for the site you're running (A minimum of 70% resists across the board, imo). If your DPS is simply poor, if you're flying a battleship into vanguards without anything to account for the fact that you're shooting at frigates, if you're in a t1 cruiser, if you're in a poorly fit battlecruiser (and by this I don't mind meta guns, but I mean mixing gun types, using small guns on a battlecruiser or medium guns on a battleship, using the wrong type of weapony, using smartbombs, or something equally foolish), then you're not going to get invited. And finally...Look at how long it takes to get t2 guns. I mean...Honestly. It's not that much of a SP investment. Is it elitism to expect you to have basic, essential modules for one of the highest ends of PvE encounters?

Finally...Link your fit here. Let's see if my post addresses your concerns at all, or if there really is some unfair elitism going on here, because that DOES occur too. If I'm bringing 1-2 Billion ISK worth of ship, I'm not accepting a 50M ISK battlecruiser fit lightly.

Finally, forgive all typo's, please. My browser is acting crazy and not letting me see what I type properly, so this is done mostly blind -.-

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.03.05 09:28:00 - [35]
 

You mean to say that my bellicose can't come?

That's some BS discrimination right there.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.03.05 10:20:00 - [36]
 

Receiving user input!
Computing response ...
*** Failure: Unable to care, not implemented. ***
Dumped excuses to system drive.

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.03.05 12:30:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Aesynil
Edited by: Aesynil on 05/03/2011 08:05:30
To be entirely honest, if you do not have high enough resists and enough buffer, you are a liability. I've flown enough logistics, I immediately recognize who is using a sub-par fit, because they drop into hull almost immediately, and start frantically asking for reps while complaining at the Logi Squad (Not always, mind you, but it happens).



This can be placed to every single MMO where you're a healer and the tank has a bad gear. Laughing

Raccah Dallocort
Posted - 2011.03.05 12:47:00 - [38]
 

We just need Gearscore

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.03.05 23:47:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 05/03/2011 23:48:33
Originally by: Baneken
Originally by: Aesynil
Edited by: Aesynil on 05/03/2011 08:05:30
To be entirely honest, if you do not have high enough resists and enough buffer, you are a liability. I've flown enough logistics, I immediately recognize who is using a sub-par fit, because they drop into hull almost immediately, and start frantically asking for reps while complaining at the Logi Squad (Not always, mind you, but it happens).



This can be placed to every single MMO where you're a healer and the tank has a bad gear. Laughing


Very similar to a certain MMO that everybody loves to hate, and true here as well, that your "tank" also has to be a real tank too. A poorly tanking "DPS ship" can be a big problem. Too many solid tanks with poor DPS only last as long as the logistics and that's also a problem. Lack of DPS means that it's only a matter of time until logistics goes down.


Another reason why an FC has to pick and choose, as they consider these things.







Ozmodan
Minmatar
Massively Mob
Posted - 2011.03.06 00:14:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Ozmodan on 06/03/2011 00:17:00
Anyone who thinks a ship needs to be fit with t2 to do an incursion is indeed being elitest just to be that way for no other reason. Trying to support a t2 fit only argument just shows your lack of knowledge of the game.

It is how the modules that the ship fits work together as a whole. You can just as easily do a poor fitting with t2 modules.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.03.06 00:25:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer

Very similar to a certain MMO that everybody loves to hate, and true here as well, that your "tank" also has to be a real tank too. A poorly tanking "DPS ship" can be a big problem. Too many solid tanks with poor DPS only last as long as the logistics and that's also a problem. Lack of DPS means that it's only a matter of time until logistics goes down.


Another reason why an FC has to pick and choose, as they consider these things.

This isn't entirely true tbh. When I link my fit in incursion chat, half the time I get laughed at for having poor resists, and the other half I get laughed at for having no buffer (I run vanguards in a vindi, with 2 invulns, a DC, and an em rig for tank). Thing is, I've made roughly 10-12 bil with that setup so far, and I've only really gone into hardcore grind mode a total of 3 times (one incursion site will net me 2-3bil before LP)

Oh and I use 2 Basis and a tengu boosting the fleet for tank.

You don't need a whole lot of tank if the logis know what they're doing, the only real problem is that if you show up with t1 mods, you're advertising the fact that you don't have a whole lot of SP, won't be doing a whole lot of DPS, and in general, won't be contributing a whole lot to the fleet, which is limited in size.

Originally by: Ozmodan

Anyone who thinks a ship needs to be fit with t2 to do an incursion is indeed being elitest just to be that way for no other reason. Trying to support a t2 fit only argument just shows your lack of knowledge of the game.

It is how the modules that the ship fits work together as a whole. You can just as easily do a poor fitting with t2 modules.
Not really. You say it's just as easy to make a poor fit using t2 mods, but I'd argue that what matters is that it's much HARDER to make a GOOD fit with t1. t1 mods also imply that you're new to the game, as t2 does not take very long to train up for if you're specializing, and if you're not specializing, then your knowledge about how to properly use/fit a certain ship is often going to be minimal.

Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.03.06 00:33:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Rens Cheque
...This is getting a little more under control after the recent wave of griefers at the incursions causing FCs to be more careful about who they allow into fleet to avoid getting the whole logi chain killed. But then it is more about who you can trust to not be a griefer than it is about being picky about ship fits for the mothership fight.

One man's griefing is another man's "new, emergent mode of game play." We are not griefers, we are freedom fighters in the service of The Nation! All knees will bend, etc..

You have to admit it's brought an unexpected twist to your new PVE experience and made it more challenging for both fleets as well as the predators lurking in the shadows. Nice touch CCP.

Uuali
Posted - 2011.03.06 05:36:00 - [43]
 

So you want them to:

1. Remember it is a game
2. Stop acting like elitist pigs
3. Grow up ane learn to play as a group

Yeah, good luck!

MuffinsRevenger
Kenny Starfighter Appreciation Club
Posted - 2011.03.06 09:26:00 - [44]
 

As you might know, vanguards you have 10 slots available, and the objective for any competent fleet is to complete them as quickly as possible
And since people are complaining chances are you are pretty bad at setting your ship up, would it not then make sense to actually listen to the people who know what they are doing when they recommend a more appropriate setup?
Does it then really sound strange that any half decent FC will question you if you bring a poorly setup ship along, reducing the speed and still taking up a slot that could have been given to the fleet more useful member?

The problem in this case does seem to be originating from a single source


Centri Sixx
Posted - 2011.03.06 13:35:00 - [45]
 

I don't think we'd have this issue if virtually all the content wasn't based around logi/bc+bs. Frig and Cruiser based content along with this would give something to do for the lower sp players as well as a place where you don't have to be so serious about things, because the isk risked is lower.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.06 13:38:00 - [46]
 

Nobody wants to share with noobs. Fact

Azirapheal
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.03.06 16:18:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Ha ha, you should have seen the drama when 0.0 FC's got involved in faction warfare.


i quite enjoyed leading a few of those :P but then my style is more along the lines of "bring any ship you got" and "orders to the tune of barbie girl"

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.03.06 17:30:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Azirapheal
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Ha ha, you should have seen the drama when 0.0 FC's got involved in faction warfare.


i quite enjoyed leading a few of those :P but then my style is more along the lines of "bring any ship you got" and "orders to the tune of barbie girl"


Doctor Jones is superior tune to call orders by.


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