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blankseplocked A mining proposal
 
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Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.01 03:34:00 - [1]
 

Suggestion

Mining is simply put a afk exercise at best.There is simply no thought involved in approaching a stationary object turning on lasers and watching it slowly fill up a cargo hold. If we can assume that any system that creates an equal amount of minerals by roughly the same amount of players will not unbalance the pvp aspects of Eve, then we can allow for a more interesting way of mineral harvesting.

The Diamond Cutter method

Asteroids have a multitude of different minerals inside distributed in a number of veins that have a 3 dimesional outline viewable in a seperate window.NOTE: This graph would be generated randomly and cached for a period of time after someone attempts the scan. From this outline the player places a number of explosive charges in order destroy the inert rock and free the minerals from the asteroid. Once blown away from the asteroid the mineral 'nuggets' will spawn a small distance from the asteroid and can be scooped and taken to a refinery as normal. The mineral content of the nugget is determined by how accurately the explosives were deployed to blow sections of the three dimesional graph away from the rest of the asteroid. The mass of the nugget, the m3, will be based on the size of the chunk blown away from the 3d graph. Lastly the explosives can evaporate the softer minerals and therefor he player must be careful to allow an area of inert rock to buffer the explosives from reach the vein directly.

Consequences
Mining will not be as time based as it is currently. A player can take a great deal of time planning and preparing to get perfect yield or perform a rush job for marginal results. The only ship needed would be a hauler, or a ship similar to a hauler with the 'equipment' needed to launch the explosives, scan the asteroid and pick up the nuggets. Depending on the module requirement for these three tasks the nugget hauler could be a specialized vehicle, a tech 2 upgrade of standard hauler, or mining barges could be altered to become both the extractor and hauler with the highslot converted to the different modules. This would have an effect on macro's but not nessicarily stop them. Depending on the sophisitcation of the macro program it is possible for the bot to do the calculations better and more precisely than the human eye. However if a bot is unable to be programmed to deal with the multitude of different visual cues then at best it would be ineffeciant enough to reduce their use as more value per asteroid used would be prefered by the alliance holder. One of the other consequences would be a re-evalutation of the grav sites generated by IHUB upgrades as these would represent risk free infinite resources as the holder would simply carpet bomb them without worry as they would respawn after all the asteroids were destroyed in this fashion. In counter to that I would propose that the IHUB upgrades increase the respawn time in the normal belts or restrict the amount of cycling the grav sites can do in a period of time. Also the act of poisoning the well would be possible from a pvp standpoint. As random placement of explosives on a rival's field could cost them millions in potential revenue.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.01 03:44:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Tu Ko
Mining is simply put a afk exercise at best.


Your very first words prompted me not to read the rest of your post.. I disagree with your premise. Mining at it's best is not an afk exercise at all. This turned me right off.

The best mining I have every done was in a high level mining op with a few dozen friends who were all chatting and mining together at very high rates. AFK mining doesn't produce the mining speeds you think. It's often slow and ponderous. The bots hang on belts a lot and take longer to target roids and get started... (as seen from a non botters perspective.) The strip miners used are not high end. In fact, most of the ships are not fitted well.. and have young characters in ships mining alone.. without boosters.

This is not optimal.. and it's not even common. Not nearly as much as it used to be.

You may have a good idea somewhere in there; I don't know.. but you are wrong in your first sentence so I suspected you'd be wrong elsewhere.


B17332
Posted - 2011.03.01 04:19:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: B17332 on 01/03/2011 04:20:25
Actually the idea is pretty good however, will most likely never happen.

First, how would you equate m3 intake to skill? By skill I mean in game skills, not your ability to identify the optimal place to place a charge. Secondly what would you do about the gang link bonuses from an orca or rorqual?

Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.01 06:14:00 - [4]
 

"The best mining I have every done was in a high level mining op with a few dozen friends who were all chatting and mining together at very high rates. AFK mining doesn't produce the mining speeds you think. It's often slow and ponderous. The bots hang on belts a lot and take longer to target roids and get started... (as seen from a non botters perspective.) The strip miners used are not high end. In fact, most of the ships are not fitted well.. and have young characters in ships mining alone.. without boosters."

This all is an argument on how effective gang bonus and SP is on mining yield. How does this factor into how fun it is? Try reading first before you respond it may help.

B17332
I don't have any ideas on what skills will add to what but for the sake of argument you could have that the explosives area of effect is larger with skills, the mining ship have a larger hold, more of the minerals survive when you oops.
I have no suggestion for orca's or the rorqual to be honest. CCP has made very well sure that both ships don't have to even be in the belt to be effective so obviously they didn't intend either of the ships to be fun at all, just practical. I'm not trying to propose a system that has better yield or uses any of the norms we consider in the current iteration of mining.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.03.01 16:02:00 - [5]
 

Well, blasting for minerals is a little old school. I mean, for a speceis of man that can create artificial worm holes between systems, completly cloak a ship, clone themselvs to avoid death, and implant cybernetic upgrades into their brain...blasting for minerals really doesn't fit in. So I don't agree with you on that. (plus mining lasers look cool) ugh
-1 on that

However, your idea of multiple veins in a given roid is awesome. There've been a few threads that suggested that idea, and I still agree it's a good one.
+1 on that

Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:29:00 - [6]
 

"Well, blasting for minerals is a little old school. I mean, for a speceis of man that can create artificial worm holes between systems, completly cloak a ship, clone themselvs to avoid death, and implant cybernetic upgrades into their brain...blasting for minerals really doesn't fit in. So I don't agree with you on that. (plus mining lasers look cool) "

Minmatar still use bullets designed for tank warfare of the 20th century.

If a series of explosions tore the asteroid into pieces before your eyes would that be cooler than a laser animation?

Most of what I have seen in previous proposals are what I like to call 'easter egg roids' where the player sees an unidentifiable asteroid and only after shooting it,refining it, or some other action finds out whats inside. I have no love for those, as its merely adds complication while remaining with the same basic mechanic for harvest which is sit still and let a module run.

Hecatonis
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.08 04:20:00 - [7]
 

nice idea

+1

ka'Sin
Posted - 2011.03.08 11:29:00 - [8]
 

I like your idea! I had a similar one about more complex asteroids with an internal structure, layers...

The process of mining is all the same for all types of asteroids - that should be improved...
Think of exciting 3D graphs of asteroids - you first have to analyze them...
Think of a set of different tools in your ship to make your way to the inner core...
Think of even magma fluids inside, exploding asteroids, stunning visuals...

+1 to your idea/thread.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.03.08 11:46:00 - [9]
 

The problem is CCP doesn't care about stopping botters. If they did they would install punkbuster and level a permaban on offenders. Botters buy plex and that means revenue.

I wouldn't mind a mining revamp but the first step to stopping the botters is for CCP to decide to actually take a stand against it.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:19:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tu Ko

Minmatar still use bullets designed for tank warfare of the 20th century.



that's because the minmatar are awesome and can fly rust and duct tape better than the amarr can fly state of the art laserboats.

they won't do this awesome idea because it's "too hard" and "changes a fundamental game mechanic"

to the first objection, we waited years for incrana which we probably won't use, we can wait years for this feature which we will use.

to the second, i'd reccomend keeping the old school mining lasers but include this one so that botters will still be able to pay off ccp and people who are actually playing can make a better profit.

Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.25 23:41:00 - [11]
 

sorry for the necro, I forgot to keep checking on this thread

Belfelmalak
I don't actually believe that CCP is happy with the botting situation. I may be wrong but here's my logic on that situation. CCP already makes very high profits from the game. A large chunk of that profit goes to investors that don't exist in the building with them, nor assist in anyway making the product. So the actual employees probably don't care all that much about how much per year they recieve other than a sense of obligation. One thing the CCP guys do personally enjoy is good press, especially as they are trying to sell 2 new games to a highly saturated and fairly jaded market. They want to be the known as a design team that does things other game companies can't or won't do. If they could stop botting they would beat their chest publicly about how they went about doing it. The simple reality is they can't go about it like police solving crimes because it takes far too much resource and too many fences have to put in place to defend against errorious convictions, because there is no mechanism for the accused to defend himself nor any third party to verify results. The only true solution to reduce botting has to be inside the game by making the game mechanics favor thought and choice as opposed to time and number-crunching.

Jaik7
Ya, I realize that it is a snow cones chance in hades that CCP will grab an idea from the forum an actually use it, but what I want by throwing this out here was to get the players to kinda rally towards a real fix that isn't a small tweak of the existing system. I have found that many players put too much blame on the results of the numbers and formula's, than the mechanics that created the numbers and formula's in the first place. One of the problems that CCP has when interacting with the forum is that they have to go through several "nerf this, buff that" posts that only take a very small number of conseqeunces into account. They can do number balancing inhouse better than we can suggest to them, because we have a bias towards the stuff we already use. We can however suggest completely new ideas to CCP because if they are generally sound the game developers can take it the rest of the way as far as making it work, cause thats what they want to do.


 

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