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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:22:00 - [1]
 

I'm trying to run for CSM, but I can tell even this early that I'm not doing well.

Honestly I'm doing badly.

There is really about 3 or 4 seats up for election this time around, depending on who you talk to. The "Great 0.0 Powerblocks" are instructing all of their members on who to vote for in order to focus their votes into 5 or 6 candidates, ensuring that they get enough to win seats. They don't have a majority of voters, but they can line up their voters to make their votes count.

I am not one of those candidates, despite being in goonswarm.

That being said, I'm honestly running to promote idea that the in-game economy is the most important aspect of Eve. I'd like to think I have the same general agenda as the majority of the people here. I'd think that would be something the people here could get behind.

I don't have an effective gimmick, so there won't be any MLM-style campaign. I think my ideas are decent, but I also don't feel any kind of name recognition from anyone not on this board. I can focus my message, but I'm not quite sure where I should be going to get that message out there.

So what I'm saying is, I'm a candidate who's not going to win unless I get some help. Either with ideas or with your advocacy.

What should I be saying differently, now that you've seen my message?

What's important that I missed?

And finally, if anyone can help me with introductions to some of the empire manufacturing and research alliances, I'd love to talk to them.

AtheistOfFail
AoF Lottery Services
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:23:00 - [2]
 

You have my vote if you can bring "change".

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:40:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: AtheistOfFail
You have my vote if you can bring "change".


The only change I can really promise you is that someone on the CSM will have an understanding on the in game economy, and make that their focus.

And post here a ton.

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:08:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 27/02/2011 11:08:32
I can let you borrow my over-sized banner add :-P

gimmick - vote kalrand,

1. isk never sleeps and neither will he!
2. isk talks and bullsh!t walks
3. he's too big to fail!
4. vote dollar-democracy! (doesn't translate to isk well :-/ )

5. locate other candidates, setup alts and make it appear they've scammed your alts or otherwise been un CSM-ly. negative campaign till New Eden freezes over!

/me done

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:12:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/02/2011 11:24:43

already outlined the following in Signatures:

The central question is to what degree Kalrand (or any other MD candidate) would be able to convince the other CSM members to prioritize economy-related issues over other more "mainstream" topics.

I have no doubt that many of the other CSM candidates have no issue with saying "sure, we'll add your agenda somewhere near the end of your list of requests if you support us here, here and here" but for CSM to be effective it has to concentrate on very few core messages and I have serious doubts that Kalrand will manage to get the points on his agenda in there.

Another (more personal) impression is that Kalrand seems to agree in many points with the agenda of the 0.0-backed candidates - this renders the "I will support them on their topics if they support me with my economy-related proposals" argument moot.
His threat to vote against CSM proposals he does personally support just because his "tit for tat" demands have not been met would not be credible. In order to trade votes on CSM proposals you have to appear to make sacrifices - otherwise you don't have anything to trade with.

In short, I don't think MD's pet proposals are capable of winning a majority and while it is not necessary to convince the majority of voters in order to get one candidate into CSM it is necessary to convince the majority of CSM members to support these proposals in order to get anything done.

If you want to make your votes count, allocate your votes based on mainstream issues which could get a majority of voters and CSM members alike - chances are you won't see much tangible results of having a minority candidate in CSM.

edit:
in case this isn't clear enough from the paragraphs above: my suggestion would be that if you want to vote for Kalrand, you should do so based on his kugu, not on his MD, agenda.

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:17:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kalrand
What's important that I missed?

That it's more about who you are than what you're saying. People don't vote for douchey gasbag losers.

Originally by: Kalrand
The only change I can really promise you is that someone on the CSM will have an understanding on the in game economy, and make that their focus.

So who would that be? Surely you jest if you mean yourself...

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:26:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 27/02/2011 11:26:32
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Kalrand
What's important that I missed?

That it's more about who you are than what you're saying. People don't vote for douchey gasbag losers.


Quoted for hypocrisy

RAW23
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:32:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/02/2011 11:24:43

already outlined the following in Signatures:

The central question is to what degree Kalrand (or any other MD candidate) would be able to convince the other CSM members to prioritize economy-related issues over other more "mainstream" topics.

I have no doubt that many of the other CSM candidates have no issue with saying "sure, we'll add your agenda somewhere near the end of your list of requests if you support us here, here and here" but for CSM to be effective it has to concentrate on very few core messages and I have serious doubts that Kalrand will manage to get the points on his agenda in there.

Another (more personal) impression is that Kalrand seems to agree in many points with the agenda of the 0.0-backed candidates - this renders the "I will support them on their topics if they support me with my economy-related proposals" argument moot.
His threat to vote against CSM proposals he does personally support just because his "tit for tat" demands have not been met would not be credible. In order to trade votes on CSM proposals you have to appear to make sacrifices - otherwise you don't have anything to trade with.

In short, I don't think MD's pet proposals are capable of winning a majority and while it is not necessary to convince the majority of voters in order to get one candidate into CSM it is necessary to convince the majority of CSM members to support these proposals in order to get anything done.

If you want to make your votes count, allocate your votes based on mainstream issues which could get a majority of voters and CSM members alike - chances are you won't see much tangible results of having a minority candidate in CSM.

edit:
in case this isn't clear enough from the paragraphs above: my suggestion would be that if you want to vote for Kalrand, you should do so based on his kugu, not on his MD, agenda.


I think most of this overestimates the importance of the CSM. CCP will NOT make their decisions based on what a majority of the CSM think. At best the CSM's opinions will be weighed as one, heavily skewed, way of gauging the views of the playerbase as a whole. As such, it doesn't bother me too much that Kal would be aligned with a bunch of 0.0 ideas that I don't particularly support. What I would like is an MD voice at the table. And it's important to realise that that is what the CSM are - voices, not decision makers. Someone sensible who can make compelling arguments is more likely to have some impact than a majority of CSM members who CCP will be well-aware represent only a niche group of players. And the idea of having at least one person on the council who might occassionaly examine the issues from a market perspective and present that perspective to CCP is an appealling one.

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:52:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 27/02/2011 11:53:49

@RAW my basic premise is that CSM can only support a very limited number of proposals effectively and that it needs to speak with one voice in order to be heard by CCP.

The CSM members vote on their meetings which proposals they carry to CCP, they also decide on a prioritization of proposals before meeting with CCP.

If you don't get a majority vote within CSM for your proposal it will remain buried within the minutes of the weekly/biweekly CSM meetings and not be formally passed on to CCP.

To what extent CCP members use these meeting minutes as inspiration for their decisions is of course open to debate - but I am fairly certain that the only somewhat reliable way to get a topic discussed by CCP is to have it passed by a CSM vote and included as a high priority item on the list of suggested topics for the next CSM summit.

edit: wrong character Confused

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:03:00 - [10]
 

I support Kal in the measure that someone can be supported. That being said, the problem I see with your platform is that you are a goon.

This kills any independence because I don't think you will cross the floor to oppose them on anything. And since the focus of CSM is seldom market stuff, MD related stuff may not even come up for discussion. And if it did, what would you change?

You need to say concisely what you would actually do, beyond fuzzy stuff like "understand economics". What makes a vote for you not just another vote for the 0.0 powerblocks?

Thats my two cents anyway.

But as someone else put it, its not as if CSM designs the game. At most they bring up stuff to CCP with which is can or not agree (like railguns working as intended in the recent minutes)

Finally you need a platform that captures the imagination for the whole game, and excel and related issues tends not to be it.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:11:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

Another (more personal) impression is that Kalrand seems to agree in many points with the agenda of the 0.0-backed candidates - this renders the "I will support them on their topics if they support me with my economy-related proposals" argument moot.

His threat to vote against CSM proposals he does personally support just because his "tit for tat" demands have not been met would not be credible. In order to trade votes on CSM proposals you have to appear to make sacrifices - otherwise you don't have anything to trade with.



I do tend to agree with the bulk of what's coming out of the 0.0 candidates. I also have a better understanding of the 0.0 economy than any of the other 0.0 candidates. Most of them have people in their alliances to manage the books, run logistics, and otherwise handle the softer side of being in 0.0.

I'm not going to be threatening to withhold my vote for what would otherwise be a good idea, simply if they ignore my proposals. What I would be able to do is explain why the things they might otherwise ignore because it "doesn't affect them" actually do have a second order impact on the things they care about.

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

in case this isn't clear enough from the paragraphs above: my suggestion would be that if you want to vote for Kalrand, you should do so based on his kugu, not on his MD, agenda.


They are not mutually exclusive; they're two sides of the same coin written for different audiences. The effective objective is still the same.

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:12:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Goonswarm
...


get lost

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:23:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Rule18
Quoted for hypocrisy

You mean irony, numbnuts.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:28:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tutskii

This kills any independence because I don't think you will cross the floor to oppose them on anything.

What makes a vote for you not just another vote for the 0.0 powerblocks?



I edited these two points in your comment together, since they hit on the same thing.

I'm running for CSM. Isn't that enough?

The Mittani can't come out and ban be from goonswarm for doing that alone, but I'm not even allowed to mention that I'm running on our own forums, or else Bad Things Will Happen to me for violating his orders not to split the vote. Goons are not even supposed to know I'm running, let alone vote for me.

Customarily, there was always a primary within goonswarm to decide on who "our" candidate would be, but then suddenly it was announced that primaries would be scrapped for his "Send Mittani and Vile Rat to Iceland" plan.

Honestly, I'm kind of ****ed I wasn't allowed to run internally, as I'd be better suited to run as a Goon candidate than as an independent candidate who happens to be in Goonswarm while there's an announced plan to "Take over the CSM".

Had we had an internal primary, the Mittani is popular enough that he would have won, but for the second slot I doubt Vile Rat would have. The average goon doesn't know who he is or what he does. That's why when you look back there's always a rather random goon if it was anyone other than Darius Johnson. I mean, who the hell is Helen Highwater? Ran in a primary, lost but made a good case for himself, and then won a slot during the next time around. I don't see why I couldn't do that.

Quote:

You need to say concisely what you would actually do, beyond fuzzy stuff like "understand economics".



I'd be delusional or an outright liar if I thought any *specific* proposal had a snowball's chance in hell of actually being implemented. I'm proposing that people vote for me for my way of looking at the things that will be covered by an NDA and you can't even know about. I'm sure that's not CCP's super secret plan for fixing blasters.

Telling CCP what they need to change doesn't work. Working with CCP on what they are going to change anyway is the way to be effective.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:31:00 - [15]
 

On another note, this CSM election feels like an election for president of some elementary school's fourth grade class where one kid is promising "Less homework and more recess!", and I'm standing here going "How about a bake sale once a month to buy new basketballs?".

Who are people going to vote for, and what's more likely to actually work?

Misty McGinnity
Mystify Trading Company
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:43:00 - [16]
 

Making a topic in MD asking questions about CSM (lets face it who could care less, personally it sounds like "work" but hey w/e floats your boat.)

all these topics tho, makes me doubt your focus & confidence to make a decision, thus doubt your leadership qualities.

You are a goon. ppl will see you to have the goon agenda. same as your bonds.

Disregard goons,

Acquire creditability.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:57:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Kalrand on 27/02/2011 12:57:25
Originally by: Misty McGinnity
Making a topic in MD asking questions about CSM


That's probably the first thing I'd do. Hopefully I could get someone to sticky it up top.

Originally by: Misty McGinnity

all these topics tho, makes me doubt your focus & confidence to make a decision, thus doubt your leadership qualities.


I'm a believer that a thread should be on a single topic, or sub topic if it's large enough, or changes enough. I've never seen a value in having a 20 page thread that discusses dozens of different things. They're near impossible for people to get up to speed, and very difficult to search.

This allows people to focus on what's relevant now, and go back if the need to and find a page or two on a single topic.


Originally by: Misty McGinnity

You are a goon. ppl will see you to have the goon agenda. same as your bonds.

Are you saying that my candidacy is good for everyone? Much like my bonds?

Originally by: Misty McGinnity

Disregard goons,

Acquire creditability.


You may notice that Avalloc did exactly that. He dropped out of the Goonwaffe corp two weeks ago when he filled to run.


Personally, I thought it was a bit too hypocritical for me.

Edit: Grammer

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:19:00 - [18]
 

I'd consider voting for Kalrand, though it depends on who else would be running.
I'd definitely not vote for any of the official 0.0 lackeys.

As for campaign strategy, I've heard that bugging missionrunners that CCP will nerf their profit if you don't get elected works Rolling Eyes

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:33:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 27/02/2011 13:39:17

wouldn't be easier to get help from people here if you were talking about what your ideas are as candidate ?

you're talking only about general things, saying you will put economy before the rest, but people will vote more easily for clear ideas than for obscure concepts.

here you give me the impression that you want the place, and AFTER you'll think about what to use it for.
if you may get MD voices like that, people outside MD will hate this attitude.
and you know well that you'll need also people from outside MD block to be elected.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:37:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Bumblefck on 27/02/2011 13:39:20
Take this crap where it belongs FFS - Jita Park/Assembly Hall

Kadi Azaph
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:41:00 - [21]
 

so this is basically goonfleet trying to steal md votes

Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:43:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Kadi Azaph
so this is basically goonfleet trying to steal md votes

The MD Elite get secret block votes so get a couple of them onside and you're home and dry.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:58:00 - [23]
 

I kind of feel bad since you're spinning a convincing enough sob story, but you're stuck between a rock and a hard place; you have no natural constituency beyond maybe a few hundred you might get from MD, and even if that was enough to get you in (it almost certainly wouldn't be), most players are probably going to dismiss you (and every other 'unofficial' goon candidate) as an attempt to split non-goon/non-nullsec-bloc votes, in line with the Mittani's stated aim of ensuring "that the Nullsec Bloc seizes control over the CSM."

Sorry, you're f***ed.

And tbh, even if you did have a chance, I think it would be profoundly unhealthy for one alliance to have three representatives on the CSM.

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.02.27 15:58:00 - [24]
 

*shrug*

I have no idea what your positions are.

What am I to support if I don't know what you support? A summary, not too detailed, would be very nice of your ideas, positions, concepts, etc. Doesn't have to be a wall of text, but something of a set of bullet points would help.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 16:08:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Zeta Zhul
*shrug*

I have no idea what your positions are.

What am I to support if I don't know what you support? A summary, not too detailed, would be very nice of your ideas, positions, concepts, etc. Doesn't have to be a wall of text, but something of a set of bullet points would help.


Oh I think I have a post like that: here.

The Mattius
Enigma Technologies
Posted - 2011.02.27 17:03:00 - [26]
 

I think the rub for most people here, is there is absolutely no way to tell if this is a genuine vote for the market and economy in Eve, or a back door vote to get another Goon in the CSM.

For that matter, how could anyone be certain that your intentions and vote on the CSM wouldn't start out genuine, but later (under pressure from those above you in Goonswarm), could be manipulated for their 0.0 agenda?

If you can address and win over this argument, i see no reason why MD shouldn't back you.


Caldariftw123
Posted - 2011.02.27 17:13:00 - [27]
 

As the only "MD" candidate, there's not really any choice .. if you want your vote to go toward pushing an MD agenda, vote for Kalrand, if you do not, then do not. It's not like you can vote for anyone else in the hope they randomly push MD, at least Kalrand is promising to do it whether he does in the end or not ;)

As for Kalrand's plea for help, tbh you will have to throw some non-MD things in amongst your list and make promises of a Delorean for everyone who votes, because 99% of the EVE population couldn't give a **** if we have a more secure investment model or a way to create futures contracts.

Good luck, hope you get to enjoy an Icelandic holiday sometime soon.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.27 17:23:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 27/02/2011 20:30:47

The CSM not only raises it's own issues, but also provides an early sounding board for CCP to get feedback from the players perspective (well the CSM). This does provide the ideal opportunity for a economically minded fellow to provide an early response. "Stake a claim as the only proactive candidate heading off bad **** at the pass, while all the other candidates are just being reactive and/or defeatist"

Eve's biggest Economic problem is that Dr. Gudmundsson is looking at Eve for instances were it is like it's RL economics. When what he/CSM/we should be doing is pointing out where it differs. The most obvious flaw in his thinking is regarding the money supply. There is little financial leverage in Eve, so whenever the economy needs to expand to embrace new content the money supply must be increased; inflation should be controlled not from reducing the supply but supplying more prestige **** to spend that ISK on. Stake a claim as the "Only Candidate with a good grasp of the Eve economics"

Regarding capturing votes I think are in a catch 22 situation; on the one hand handicapped by your lack of leadership endorsement to Goon block voting and scepticism from non-Goons because you are a Goon.

When it comes to goons perhaps you need to think and act more like a goon, and resort to Goon style guerilla campaign tactics. Get into the other Candidates threads and start slinging some faeces, preferable the bigger the target the better. If you win you will be forgiven they will be the ones coming begging to you, if you lose, well **** man your a goon.

--edit--

A few policies to think about, find some stuff players want or few can argue against, stuff that is not featuring prominently in other campaigns.

1) Make Transports more accessible by reducing the skill requirement from Industry V to IV. This would improve logistics all round for everybody. It would lower the barriers to players getting into low-sec.
2) Reducing the standing requirements for jump clones, this makes PvP more accessible, it reduces the cost of risk of low-sec accidents.
Anything that gets new players into low-sec early reduces the risk, reduces the fear is good for Eve, yes it helps carebears but others should be able to see the benefit.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.02.27 17:28:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 10/04/2011 02:23:04
-

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.02.27 17:35:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Zeta Zhul
*shrug*

I have no idea what your positions are.

What am I to support if I don't know what you support? A summary, not too detailed, would be very nice of your ideas, positions, concepts, etc. Doesn't have to be a wall of text, but something of a set of bullet points would help.


Oh I think I have a post like that: here.


Ahhh, thank you! I'll read it over.

Perhaps putting the link into your signature for a short time might make it's distribution much wider and easier.


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