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blankseplocked [Proposal] Change the way sec status is gained.
 
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.02.26 14:47:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 17/04/2011 17:58:46
Remove security gain from every NPC in game except for normal lowsec belt rats (incursion NPCs shouldn't give any gain even if they happen to be killed in a lowsec belt).

If you do the crime you should also do the time in a suitably unpleasant area which happens to be lowsec, no more jump cloning back to your safe 0.0 home and undo the security hit in a few hours after behaving badly in empire.


A poll has been started over at FHC to do a quick check where people currently go for doing their sec status repairs.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:36:00 - [2]
 

Interesting idea, might give more people a reason to go to low sec. It should include anomalies in low sec as well, since it is basically the same risk.

Tsubutai
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:44:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Tsubutai on 27/02/2011 10:44:23
Sensible idea.

edit: and supported to boot!

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain

Posted - 2011.02.27 11:13:00 - [4]
 

I agree that it makes kind of sense to remove sec gain from 0.0 rats. It's lawless space so why would empires care if you kill something there. In similar way I don't see why incursions would give CONCORD lp in 0.0. It's infested with sanshas anyway.

Other than that I do think whole criminal mechanics in eve really needs overall oomph in long term, because if you do crime in hi sec you get major security hit and you will be blown up by concord. Now if you cannot get security status up, fine, but you still need to get to hi sec to pirate stuff. Srs.





Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront

Posted - 2011.02.27 11:25:00 - [5]
 

Logic and reason from a pirate. The world must surely be on its last legs Smile

Need to scale up gain as rats are smaller and system security higher.

Preferably with an added complimentary system affording chance of achieving same gain as ratting but without the need to sweep a bazillion systems.
Ex.: Concord agents in space (1 per constellation or so) giving out beacon-on-OV "missions" to destroy XX pirate lair.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.02.27 20:47:00 - [6]
 

I like this idea. Twisted Evil

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.27 22:48:00 - [7]
 


Mimiru Minahiro
Posted - 2011.02.27 23:06:00 - [8]
 

No thank you.

klyeme
The Mind's Eye
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.28 04:17:00 - [9]
 

I would like to be able to trade sec status

Example: A character with some excess (above 0.0) sec status could trade another player for isk (sec status for isk).

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.28 12:50:00 - [10]
 

Interesting idea. How about going a step further - allow the player to determine how (s)he is rewarded.

Something like this: remove rat bounties, and instead make the rats drop tokens (maybe the existing dogtags, maybe some new item) which can be traded in either for a sec status increase or an ISK reward depending on who you hand them over to.

How would that change things?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.02.28 17:33:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Interesting idea. How about going a step further - allow the player to determine how (s)he is rewarded.

Something like this: remove rat bounties, and instead make the rats drop tokens (maybe the existing dogtags, maybe some new item) which can be traded in either for a sec status increase or an ISK reward depending on who you hand them over to.

How would that change things?

The idea is to remove sec gain from 0.0 and highsec to make lowsec different.

Make it feel at least a bit like a punishment when you are hunted all over lowsec trying to regain access to highsec.

Originally by: klyeme
I would like to be able to trade sec status

Example: A character with some excess (above 0.0) sec status could trade another player for isk (sec status for isk).

We don't need a simple shortcut like isk to undo criminal deeds.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.28 17:54:00 - [12]
 

So this proposal is essentially an attempt to kick griefers out of high sec for a while so they can endure low sec instead of picking on highsec carebears?


Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:34:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 28/02/2011 19:35:25
Originally by: Selinate
So this proposal is essentially an attempt to kick griefers out of high sec for a while so they can endure low sec instead of picking on highsec carebears?



Nope it is to give us more targets in lowsec.

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.28 20:29:00 - [14]
 

Well with this same logic why does Concord pay you to kill rats in 0.0. No, we should not remove the security status gain from 0.0 rats because while it is lawless space Concord is happy with you killing hostile NPCs. Instead change the amount of security status gained as such.

Empire Rats : 100% Security Status Gain
Null Rats: 50% Security Status Gain

Basically the justification for this would be the Empire rats are more of a direct threat to the Empires and as such it should be encouraged to focus on taking on those rats. The numbers are just off the top of my head you might want to separate out high sec and low sec and maybe not make the difference so much, but removing security status gain in 0.0 entirely should not happen.

Sofaking Weetawded
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:28:00 - [15]
 

Not supported at all.

What a ridiculous case of self-interest. "CCP, bring me more targets to play with, please!"

It is bad enough that the 0.0 alliance leaders' main interest is forcing more people into their arena, now the lowsec pirates are at it, too?

Oh wait...did I just fall for a troll? Oh well.

Mimiru Minahiro
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:36:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Sofaking Weetawded
It is bad enough that the 0.0 alliance leaders' main interest is forcing more people into their arena, now the lowsec pirates are at it, too?


What?! People advocating for myopic boosts to thier play style or nerfs to others play styles in [mah] Assembly Hall??!!!ShockedShockedShocked


Shocking.

The cool part is that the trolls, many times, dont start out as trolls so you can bet there is a substantial amount of crying behind the poaster's screens. This makes Assembly Hall 100000x better than "other" forums.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.01 13:52:00 - [17]
 

As expected gankbears would be totally against this idea. Wink

Altarica
Posted - 2011.03.01 15:49:00 - [18]
 

I've never understood why CONCORD pay npc bounties anyway. CONCORD are there to police the capsuleers, not the npcs. If any thing the bounties should be paid by the empires whose space the npc's are in. Yes that means I'm in favour of pulling all npc bounties from 0.0.

On Security Status I think the OP is on the right lines but actually Security Status is only lost by killing capsuleers, why should it be regained at all by shooting npc's?

Security Status is CONCORD's method of recognising which capsuleers have performed criminal acts against other capsuleers so why not shift the regain of Security Status to acts against other capsuleers also?

Basically if you want your Security Status back, find and terminate some other capsuleer who has a criminal record. Should be a good way of generating PvP encounters should it not?

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.01 15:58:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Altarica
Basically if you want your Security Status back, find and terminate some other capsuleer who has a criminal record. Should be a good way of generating PvP encounters should it not?


It is far to easy to exploit.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe

Posted - 2011.03.01 16:14:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Shandir on 07/03/2011 11:53:41
Supported. Give people reason to go to lowsec, and remove the strange fact that you can't really lose sec status in null by being bad, but you can gain it quickly.

Edit: Adding a thumbs up for the proposal and an entirely different finger gesture to the poster below me.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.03.01 18:55:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Baaldor on 01/03/2011 18:57:14
Edited by: Baaldor on 01/03/2011 18:57:05
Originally by: Shandir
Supported. Give people reason to go to lowsec, and remove the strange fact that you can't really lose sec status in null by being bad, but you can gain it quickly.


Hey dignus, you do realize that if you support something in the assembly hall, throwing a thumbs up helps.

And as far as null sec, please tell me who exactly maintains said naughty list.

I personally do not care.

EDIT:Actually this would create massive chaos and tears. Not to mention the jewbear population would just cave. I am all for this sort of strife.

Dro Nee
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:03:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Dro Nee on 01/03/2011 19:06:36
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Nope it is to give us more targets in lowsec.


Having lived the majority of my time in lowsec as a flashy pirate (and living off of my kills/ransoms)I always found that the casual, weekend warrior type, pvp'ers were my bread and butter. Both in terms of income and "good fights". A large percentage of those players ran solo or in 2-3man gangs and, as such, were a source of greater fun than getting 1-2kills before having to gtfo because of the 5-15man gang trailing the tackle.

By making lowsec the only place you can work off the sec hits of casual pvp, you will only see less and less casual players. Do you honestly think that the people who run missions in highsec 75% of the time (and can work off the small sec hits via thier L4's) will spend as much time making pew pew in lowsec if they risk not getting back to thier mission systems? IMO, the OP's idea is really a disincentive in the long run.

As those players start to diminish,so do the players like me because there are other options that are more fun. Eventually lowsec becomes nothing but gank corps, FW, and nullsec moon mining/logistics. Given the already large numbers of these in low space, I assume these are not the "targets" you were hoping to have.

While I can appreciate the drive to get more people into the belts, I do not think the OP was particularly well thought out in terms of long-term consequences.

Maybe I am just a gankbear though Laughing

EDIT- I might get behind removing the sec gains from null, but definately not from high.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.01 20:06:00 - [23]
 

I really don't think you want the null sec factions not only taking up all the low sec moons but also creating safe areas in low sec where they can grind sec status up after taking someone else's POS.

This would increase traffic in low sec, but it wouldn't provide the benefit you seem to think it would. The low sec pirates simply do not have the numbers to mess with null sec alliances. You don't want a turf war with them.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.03.01 20:18:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
....

Pfft, 1 low-seccer = 10 null-seccers.

Bring it carebear Twisted Evil

Besides, the whole point is not just to get low traffic but to actually make sec. gain not quite so trivial.
It is a completely wasted 'feature' when one can pirate on the weekends and be back in the black from bog standard ratting deep within a sea of cyno jammed systems .. might as well remove security gain for all its worth and let people press a button when they want back into Jita.

Besides, it makes perfect RP sense: Community service in to seek redemption from past crimes Very Happy

High-sec gain can stay, it is such obscenely low numbers as it is that it can only really be used to correct a point or two before driving a person insane.

Ronan Connor
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:20:00 - [25]
 

Not supported in the original op.

The topic suggestion is a covered try to get victims to low sec.

If the author is authentic about punishment the only way would be to get less sec boost in low sec and no boost from null sec. The logic behind it sounds fair as well. In "no sec" area no security is needed and therefore no sec status gain for shooting rats. As the rats still are "enemies" to the factions, bountys are ok.

In the end i agree with the author that regainin sec status is to easy. For example ganking a hulk and recovering doesnt take nearly as long as re-earning the money for the miner. Miner are mostly newer players who arent as wealthy. Probably go broken with a gank. Therefore ganking a hulk should lead to 3 weeks or more hard ratting in low sec, similar to re-earning the ship.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:37:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 01/03/2011 21:38:05
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Remove security gain from every NPC in game except for normal lowsec belt rats (incursion NPCs shouldn't give any gain even if they happen to be killed in a lowsec belt).

If you do the crime you should also do the time in a suitably unpleasant area which happens to be lowsec, no more jump cloning back to your safe 0.0 home and undo the security hit in a few hours after behaving badly in empire.


Agreed. Do the crime, do the time in a genuinely dangerous area, not in your safe, cynojammed station system.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:46:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 01/03/2011 21:49:44
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Bagehi
....

Pfft, 1 low-seccer = 10 null-seccers.

Bring it carebear Twisted Evil

Besides, the whole point is not just to get low traffic but to actually make sec. gain not quite so trivial.
It is a completely wasted 'feature' when one can pirate on the weekends and be back in the black from bog standard ratting deep within a sea of cyno jammed systems .. might as well remove security gain for all its worth and let people press a button when they want back into Jita.

Besides, it makes perfect RP sense: Community service in to seek redemption from past crimes Very Happy

High-sec gain can stay, it is such obscenely low numbers as it is that it can only really be used to correct a point or two before driving a person insane.


I brought it last night and all the little low sec babies ran. No, I didn't bring a blob, just 8 ships. The 15 man low sec gang (which included two faction ships) made excuses that the two logistics ships in my fleet meant I really didn't want a fight. I honestly thought we were about to lose the gang to them but they ran to high sec from us.

I lived in low sec for almost 2 years. I still raid low sec to this day. You can say what you want, we mop you guys up easily. With < 10 ships. Again, you really don't want null seccers sticking around for extended time in low sec because it will be bad for newer players... and it will inevitably end up with more escalations to hot drops in low sec which is bad for everyone.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2011.03.01 21:46:00 - [28]
 

It is a reasonable request, considering that those who PvP in 0.0 get no sec penalties. So for pure 0.0 alliance people, it doesn't matter at all. Those that choose to kill in empire should deal with the consequences in empire.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:55:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
It is a reasonable request, considering that those who PvP in 0.0 get no sec penalties. So for pure 0.0 alliance people, it doesn't matter at all. Those that choose to kill in empire should deal with the consequences in empire.


Have you considered that we can farm a low sec system for sec status the same way we can a null sec system? My corp controlled (dominated) a low sec system for about a month when we were between alliances, and we are mostly industrials. That is what would happen to fairly big chunks of low sec. Null sec pilots have resources and manpower to throw at such things.

No one is pure 0.0 PVP anymore with Tech moons in low sec. You will end up with piles of cap pilots needing sec, which means you'll end up with systems populated by a bunch of caps and super caps grinding standings back up after a weekend of unpleasant POS bashes.

Mimiru Minahiro
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:43:00 - [30]
 

MAKE SEC STATUS MEAN SOMETHING!!!111oneone

DO THE CRIME DO THE TIME!!!1111eleventyone


Yeah because the multiple nerfs to sec status and recouping of sec status over the years have worked soooooo well at penalizing players who violence boats in highsec and lowsec! More of the same is evidently needed to combat the current-day onslaught of negative security people!!!

LaughingLaughingLaughing


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