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Bruce Blacky
Minmatar
Blacky Invention Research Development YinYang
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:50:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Bruce Blacky on 05/03/2011 13:37:00
Hello community,

I applied for CSM, to give the Linux community a chance of a voice in the CSM Board.

I like to use this thread to collect issues and things that:

- should brought to the attention of CCP via CSM or
- things we (as the linux community) need/want

basically post your concerns/ideas

and of course vote for me once the voting starts.

i hope i can fullfill your wishes, i know i will do my very best.
regards
Bruce BlackyVery Happy

my thread in the Jita Park Speakers Corner:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1477673

kakmonstret
Posted - 2011.02.26 02:38:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: kakmonstret on 26/02/2011 02:39:08
The big one good statistics on wine users.

More information on how far internal testing with wine goes. Have problems with wine had any impact on development?

Possibility of the money used to support the old Linux client going towards wine in anyway, maybe a wine developer employed by CCP?

Maybe a Linux installer for eve with wine?

Feasibility off giving official support for eve on wine.

Making sure they check incarna against wine so they don't go down a path that will be hard to get fixed in wine.

Any problems that may occur in the future, now with the jukebox bug out of the way I'm not sure there are any major wine<->eve related problems left.

Making sure that the Linux community doesn’t fade out of view completely.

This is my suggestions at least.

mrkaczor
Minmatar
Grey Toxic Sword
Inver Brass
Posted - 2011.02.26 08:58:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: mrkaczor on 26/02/2011 09:06:51
For me, it would be great to make CCP contact more with Wine Dev Community ... The business model they used to do Linux/MAC client it ok for MAC maybe but Linux community are not like MAC users (we are COMMUNITY not users) and I think they tried to kill two birds with one stone - Linux need different approach - more open.

Ok, now numbers - using forum posts as reference - Linux community is 70% of MAC community (1650 to 2300 posts - about). So to get good repayment (and, of course, PR pluses) they need to invest - let say 50% of budget that they use to get MAC client - but spend it differently. But how?

1. The "normal" business model (like IBM, Oracle, Novel, Red Hat do) is to hire ppl inside company do write open source software to fit your needs. In this example wit would be wise to hire 1-2 linux/wine developers and make them do wine and EVE corrections to make them work together (ew. later make them create client like MAC with codeweavers).
2. Even if they refuse they should check if EVE is running on Wine or in Normal Windows (this is easy - there is a special registry key in regedit in wine that you can check if it exists). Just to make them see the potential on Linux gamers.

PS. Wana to have blog/webpage? I have place for that and can help! :)

Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2011.02.26 17:38:00 - [4]
 

For sure, I agree the first step would be a sure way to count the linux fraction of the playerbase.

All the other suggestions proposed above are noteworthy and useful, but I'd add something as a general desire.

Iteration.

Whoever sits on a CSM chair should pester the devs to return on half-finished code (and features) to complete them and polish them. The resistance of the management would be fierce, as we know, putting a new (half-done) feature would attract more new users than fixing old bugs, as the latter has close to no commercial value.

But it is critical.

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.03.01 16:05:00 - [5]
 

It would be good to ask CCP to add an option to disable S3TC texture compression. It will permit peoples with Intel and NVidia(Nouveau) card to play.

Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.01 18:08:00 - [6]
 

Good Luck in the election.

I would like some useful statistics about the usage share of wine.

Otherwise I would be happy about some kind of dev-blog and an official promise to check builds with wine before deploying on tranq. Sisi is often broken on windows, so they could zap the server to their liking.

Septimus Jr
Posted - 2011.03.02 01:49:00 - [7]
 

Stable EVE gaming experience under wine would be sufficient for me. Thats the biggest drawback for me to get rid of windows completely...

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:20:00 - [8]
 

The Alt-Tab bug

Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.03 10:31:00 - [9]
 

Congratulations, they accepted.

Now we just have to vote and some other ppl probably too.

Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2011.03.04 14:14:00 - [10]
 

I know I will be lobbying like no tomorrow.

There's a lot of people who don't even KNOW there is something like a CSM and candidates.

Those are the perfect targets to ask "please, click on this link and select this guy".

But, Bruce, don't stop campaigning on your part!

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.03.04 16:35:00 - [11]
 

I can add an ad for the CSM in the Linux canal motd but even, not all Linux user go in this channel.

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2011.03.04 21:13:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Sevarus James on 04/03/2011 21:13:06
Originally by: Ravow
I can add an ad for the CSM in the Linux canal motd but even, not all Linux user go in this channel.


They may not Rav, but the channel never has less than 12-13 in it and sometimes more than 40 which means that people are coming and going all the time, so adding that to the MOTD would be worth the effort. imho.
Cool


Bruce Blacky
Minmatar
Blacky Invention Research Development YinYang
Posted - 2011.03.05 13:25:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Bruce Blacky on 05/03/2011 13:37:16
thanks guys,

i am will do my best for campaigning (trying to update my campaign slogan atm), but tbh i am not very good at this kind of stuff.
I am too honest i guess.

thanks for all the support :)

Bruce Blacky

my thread in the Jita Park Speakers Corner:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1477673

AureuSZ
Posted - 2011.03.06 10:55:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: AureuSZ on 06/03/2011 11:50:08
Edited by: AureuSZ on 06/03/2011 11:46:36

What about thinking the radical way ?

Open Source the development of the client.

An open source MMORPG project IS manageable, you just have to learn to do it.

Benefits ?

Linux Community Buzz, lot more players, contributers, opening the game to more platforms (arm platform anyone ? : Android / Ipad), Web Client Development (using WebGL), reducing development costs, giving back to the creative player's community.

This will as well result in quick integration in Ubuntu software center.

See the future guys, it's coming fast :)

I know this seems unrealistic, but we could try to do an inception... who's the architect ? :P

Open Sourcing games comes usually too late.

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.03.06 16:38:00 - [15]
 

Forget the open source part.

EVE is already prone to python injection... If they open up the client, people will be able to cheat in a way far belong the current cheat level.

AureuSZ
Posted - 2011.03.06 18:21:00 - [16]
 

Python injection is so easy anyway.

There's nothing wrong with opening the source code except to have more eyes on the code and help patching what's possible in this area.

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2011.03.07 09:00:00 - [17]
 

Personally, I would downplay the "LINUX" angle and focus on the bigger picture. We "nix" players are admittedly a niche now, but let me see here. What platform is going bugnuts crazy in the market right now? Um that'd be tablets. And what runs 90% of those? MAC and Linux (android). Windows isn't even a warm breeze on the horizon right now in that market.

As for CSM, I would try to focus on issues that concern players first and try to at least let CCP know that we (nix' players) aren't going away anytime soon.

1. Getting our bug reports some attention.
2. Ensuring that EVE is "sniff tested" on current production Wine before release.
3. Setting up a way for CCP to validate linux/wine users and not just win/mac.

Personally I believe our numbers are much higher than is currently thought about as there are no metrics in place by CCP to differentiate between windows/wine.

Don't run on "nix only". Widen your grasp in the Jita corner post. Perhaps reach out to the Mac forum folks. After all they are using a port as well.

Just a couple thoughts.

COMM4NDER
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.07 20:55:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: COMM4NDER on 07/03/2011 20:58:07
Current issues with wine are that there is not close enough people that post bugs and help the Wine community with EVE.
Just check another mmo like WOW to EVE. Amount of bugs reported and or maintainers.

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=20549&sAllBugs
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=22575&sAllBugs

Thing is with Wine is that _WE_ need to help that the game gets good support. Wine people will try their best however _WE_ need to post bugs help the maintainers to find why the game crashes or what problems we got so far.

If you got any kind of issue with the game in Wine join the #winehq channel in freenode and try to get help from the devs and post bugs if it is a bug in wine.


Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:59:00 - [19]
 

Hey Bruce,

Good to see someone going for the CSM on the Linux base.

While I was at CCP (as CCP Lingorm) I was heavily involved the the EVE on other platforms (MAC and Linux), running the round table at a 2 Fanfests.

My personal opinion here (as an Ex-Dev, an EVE player and a Linux user (not for EVE but for a number of my other applications)) is that the Linux community would be better served by working as a group and joining the bug hunter program with the understanding that you are only going to work on Linux bugs, if you also setup a regular communication line with the Wine guys it would be beneficial.

The CSM is not really tasked with Technical issues (I know I am running as well but I did not mention Linux support in my campaign due to this).

While I would live to see official support for EVE on Linux the issue is that the commercial offerings are not as good as Wine. It was suggested that CCP become a sponsor of the Wine Project and give access to the Test server to Wine Dev's to further the development of EVE on Wine, but I am not sure where this went to since I left.

If you really feel this passionate about it get together with a group of other passionite Linux EVE players and build a bug hunting community to feedback into the EVE and Wine Bug lists.

Just my 2cents worth ... take it or leave it as you will.

Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2011.03.09 09:15:00 - [20]
 

On the other hand, Jonathon, probably most of us are already the authors of the majority of EVE-related bugs on winehq.org's bugzilla...

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2011.03.09 12:12:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Jonathon Silence

While I would live to see official support for EVE on Linux the issue is that the commercial offerings are not as good as Wine. It was suggested that CCP become a sponsor of the Wine Project and give access to the Test server to Wine Dev's to further the development of EVE on Wine, but I am not sure where this went to since I left. take it or leave it as you will.



I can say that it probably went nowhere. Or at least nowhere vocally, as its been LESS than a desert in this section as far as CCP folks go. --but hey, we're used to that. -lol.

Good to see you're still about! It was good working with you back in the Transgaming debacle from hades days of the "official" client. Twisted Evil


Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.09 18:34:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Sevarus James

I can say that it probably went nowhere. Or at least nowhere vocally, as its been LESS than a desert in this section as far as CCP folks go. --but hey, we're used to that. -lol.

Good to see you're still about! It was good working with you back in the Transgaming debacle from hades days of the "official" client. Twisted Evil




Has it got that bad? Well, if your bloke does not get on and I do then I will certainly take up the Linux flag for you all. Good luck to your Candidate.


Assassin126
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.09 21:36:00 - [23]
 

to make eve installable with package manager? :D but realistically anything that makes eve more Linux supported :)

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:24:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jonathon Silence
Originally by: Sevarus James

I can say that it probably went nowhere. Or at least nowhere vocally, as its been LESS than a desert in this section as far as CCP folks go. --but hey, we're used to that. -lol.

Good to see you're still about! It was good working with you back in the Transgaming debacle from hades days of the "official" client. Twisted Evil




Has it got that bad? Well, if your bloke does not get on and I do then I will certainly take up the Linux flag for you all. Good luck to your Candidate.




Well, its not all bad J. The client, imho, behaves better now than I've ever seen it under wine. It'd be nice to have CCP package it like google did with picassa, but -shrugs- its not difficult to install and use as is now.

And good luck to you as well in the CSM deal. I didn't even know you were running...er...were "ling" until after I'd already voted. heh heh.

Ben AdonKar
Minmatar
LifeLine Solutions
Posted - 2011.03.17 17:57:00 - [25]
 

just gave all of my votes to Bruce Blacky. a while ago my bio also turned into an election ad. voting just takes a few seconds, so please go for it!


Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.17 20:58:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Sevarus James

Well, its not all bad J. The client, imho, behaves better now than I've ever seen it under wine. It'd be nice to have CCP package it like google did with picassa, but -shrugs- its not difficult to install and use as is now.

And good luck to you as well in the CSM deal. I didn't even know you were running...er...were "ling" until after I'd already voted. heh heh.


I gave it a run on Fedora Box the other Night ... not looking to shabby ... not spectactular but not ....tastic either.

Still reckon CCP should be more active in their support of Wine.

Shame about the votes Razz but good luck to Bruce as well.

Ignatius Glick
Posted - 2011.04.02 17:05:00 - [27]
 

Ubuntu player here.. Any voice is better then no voice!

Zaran Tarik
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.04.12 10:39:00 - [28]
 

Open source an Eve client for Linux? Do you know how difficult that would be? How slow development would become?

Linux has < 1%. I hope CCP doesn't devote valuable resources to it.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.04.21 08:03:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Zaran Tarik
Open source an Eve client for Linux? Do you know how difficult that would be? How slow development would become?

Linux has < 1%. I hope CCP doesn't devote valuable resources to it.


< 1%. Really. What numbers are you pulling that from? The old statistics from the "native" linux client which most people didn't even use?

According to w3schools.com, current browser statistics cite linux use at about 5%, with a moderate but steady upward trend. 1% is an absurdly conservative estimate. And after you consider that, remember that most Windows users are only casual consumers of computers -- many have no interest in video games. By comparison, the Linux community tends to appreciate a higher degree of computer involvement in their lives. Eve is an intensely complex game, and while I cannot speak for every linux user, I feel it holds more appeal to us than to the general population. I would anticipate a greater percentage of Linux users to play Eve than Windows users.

Perhaps that's the first thing we should ask for. Build in some mechanism to properly detect linux use, rather than leaving it to speculation. We might find some surprising statistics.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.04.21 11:23:00 - [30]
 

The baseline for Linux should be common to all platforms, which is to keep EVE as resource-friendly as possible. It will give us Linux users a greater chance to run EVE under WINE and it will allow Windows users to run EVE on older hardware. Care for others and others will care about you...

The cherry on the cake should be an official Linux support. Giving Linux its own client is not needed and has shown to fail for the past. There is no point in asking CCP to do it again. The current solution with WINE is better. In a first step should CCP start with verifying the EVE client against 2-3 particular Linux/WINE installations and declare these installations as the minimum requirement. Later should CCP start giving help for EVE on Linux/WINE.


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